700 pharmacies withdraw from community drug schemes

Artemisxxxx

hi everyone..does anyone know about what pharmacies are doing in milford donegal,i know there is a list but the list isnt accurate.So if anyone is in Milford and knows what they actually are doing i'd realy appriciate it.

bleg

Good discussion about the whole situation on TV3 this morning.

Part 1:
http://www.tv3.ie/ireland_am.php?video=11974&locID=1.65.74

Part 2:
http://www.tv3.ie/ireland_am.php?vid...&locID=1.65.74

Part 3:
http://www.tv3.ie/videos.php?video=11976&locID=1.65.74


I actually can't believe the reaction of the HSE. They seem to be completely ignoring the inaccuracies of their list and completely unwilling to accept any other eventuality. When asked what their contingency plan is she said (to paraphrase) we think that most places will be ok but if an area isn't covered sufficiently well then it's not our fault.

And I hear this morning that one of the contingency pharmacies in Donegal has no running water and therefore cannot open.

Artemisxxx, your best bet would be to ring around the pharmacies in your area today, don't trust the HSE list. Your local pharmacist will give you a better idea.

Artemisxxxx

I did ring the pharmacy im trying to find out about and they wouldn't give me a direct answere,i think they think im a newspaper or something.I can understand that they want harney to think everyone is pulling out but they realy should be upfront to there patients.I think sending patients to a warehouse to get there medication is going to be a disaster!

bleg

Did you try other pharmacies in the area? That's a disgrace that the pharmacist wouldn't give you the information you require.

Artemisxxxx

Thanks Bleg for the link..It will be a train wreck after this weekend with all this messing around..think i'll ring the pharmacy again to find out..it is my grandparents pharmacy,not mine but i did tell them i was ringing on behalf of them

Artemisxxxx

Just rang them and spoke to a different person and they are not dispensing until the whole thing is resolved...so ill have to make sure my grandparents find anther pharmacy

Soapy Joe

Rather than phoning round more pharmacies phone your TD.

Here are your Donegal TDs.

Niall Blaney FF 074-9127754
James McDaid FF 074-9125132
Joe McHugh FG 01-6184242
Mary Coughlan FF 074-9724272
Pat the Cope Gallagher FF 074-9531025
Dinny McGinley FG 074-9531025
Cecilia Keaveney (Senator) 074-9382177

bleg

IPU Press Release
Friday 31st July 2009

On eve of pharmacy crisis………

IPU warns that patient safety will be compromised by inadequate contingency plans

Chaotic service likely in many areas which have been left without sufficient cover

From tomorrow it now seems likely that many community pharmacists will no longer supply medicines under community drug schemes. The Irish Pharmacy Union (IPU) has warned that patients are now facing into an intolerable situation as it becomes clear that the HSE contingency plans are totally inadequate and in many parts of the country there is no contingency plan at all in place.

Liz Hoctor, President of the IPU has accused the HSE of failing to meet its legal responsibility to patients. “The Minister assured the Dáil that there would be a workable contingency plan which would ensure that all patients have access to the medicine they need including those who cannot afford them. It is clear that the HSE has failed in this regard and it is now incumbent on them to admit that there are areas of this country without adequate pharmacy cover. The HSE and the Minister should recognise this dangerous situation immediately as, ultimately, responsibility for patients and their care rests with the Minister.”

The IPU believes that under the HSE contingency plan, pharmacy cover in areas such as Waterford, Wexford, Cavan, Donegal, Kerry, Connemara and Mayo will be totally insufficient to meet patient demand and that this could lead to dangerous situations.

Liz Hoctor pointed out that the IPU had raised many of their concerns with the HSE but had not received any response. “The HSE says it is setting up a dozen dispensaries around the country. Will they all be open tomorrow? Will there be sufficient staff? Will they have a full range of medicines? What are their opening hours? What after hours services will be provided? Will they be able to deliver medicines to patients/Collect medicines from surgeries? Will their help-line be open on a twenty four hour basis? Do they have the necessary equipment such as computer systems, refrigeration facilities, security systems? Have they been licensed? Will their staff have the knowledge and experience to spot mistakes in prescriptions? Will they provide monitored dosage systems to patients?

“These are some of the questions we raised with the HSE on behalf of our patients but as usual we received no response.”

In response to calls that a mediator be appointed Ms. Hoctor said that “I want to assure patients and their Associations that the Union is willing to engage in an attempt to resolve matters.”

She said she deeply regretted any worry or distress caused to patients who will be adversely affected by the current situation. Ms Hoctor said this was a very worrying time for patients and pharmacists alike and that she knew the decision by pharmacists to withdraw from these schemes was taken with the utmost reluctance.

Ms Hoctor pointed out that given the current economic situation pharmacists have shown a commendable willingness to play their part and have put forward proposals which would bring in €85m worth of savings, protect patient care and safeguard jobs. The proposals would also allow pharmacists to offer patients the choice of cheaper generic medicines where it is safe to do so.

Ms Hoctor pointed out that community pharmacists have been forced into this impossible situation by Minister Harney’s unilateral decision to impose a disproportionate and unsustainable 34% cut in pharmacy payments for providing advice and medicines to patients on community drug schemes.


These questions need to be answered now.

bleg

Artemisxxxx wrote: »

Just rang them and spoke to a different person and they are not dispensing until the whole thing is resolved...so ill have to make sure my grandparents find anther pharmacy

Did they give advice as to where you might have the drugs dispensed? The pharmacists on the ground will know more about which ones will be open and closed than the HSE.

tallaght01

There HAS to be some kind of last minute intervention here. Surely? No? Are the HSE dumb enough to believe they can go this alone?

Mad bastards.

bleg

Contingency Arrangements

Due to pharmacies withdrawing their termination notices in some areas, the HSE has put two of its contingency dispensing facilities (Carrick on Shannon, Co Leitrim and Falcarragh, Co. Donegal) on standby and they will not be in operation from 1st August 2009. Where necessary the HSE has put in place alternative arrangements to ensure that everyone who requires medicines under the State Drugs Schemes can continue to access them (see below).
The opening hours of these facilities will be Monday to Friday 10am – 8pm (excluding Bank Holiday Monday) and Saturdays 10am – 6pm.

Aras Naomh Chaolain, Knock Road, Castlerea, Co. Roscommon
Donegal Community Hospital, Donegal Town, Co.Donegal
Dungloe Community Hospital, Dungloe, Co. Donegal
St Joseph’s Community Hospital, Stranolar, Co. Donegal
St Marys Hospital, Castlebar, Co. Mayo
Ballina Health Centre, Mercy Road, Ballina, Co Mayo
Arus Deirbhle, Belmullet, Co Mayo
Caherciveen Hospital, Caherciveen, Co. Kerry
19 Denny Street , Tralee, Co. Kerry
Listowel Community Hospital, Listowel, Co. Kerry

The HSE will continue to monitor where there may be need for additional contingency arrangements and will put these in place as required.

The HSE has asked pharmacies who have chosen to terminate their contract to identify to the local HSE’s pharmacist patients who may require extra supports. Those with friends or relatives who may have difficulty travelling to an alternative pharmacy or getting access to their medicines should think ahead and plan where they can help them to get their medicines.

Patients who are concerned they may require additional supports should contact the HSE information line on 1850 24 1850, which will be open from 8am until 8pm on Saturday.

bleg

An admission that the HSE list is completely inaccurate for Donegal and a rag-tage contingency plan. This cannot continue indefinitely. The contingency will cost more that the savings!

Dr Galen

the HSE's game of double bluff appears to have not paid off and now the **** really will hit the fan.

trishasaffron

Sorry the thread is so long I've only read some posts - but I don't see why its the HSE that's to blame - from what I can see its the pharmacists who are withdrawing their services - why don't they blink

bleg

It's the HSE's responsibility to supply the Community Drug Schemes. They contract these out to pharmacists. They are imposing disproportionate cuts, as directed by the Minister, without any negotiation. Many pharmacies have decided that this is going too far and have terminated their contracts with the HSE.

The HSE aren't to blame for the cuts in the fees paid to the pharmacists, they just impose the legislation as directed by the Minister.

They are to blame for not putting together a cogent contingency plan.

jeepers

The HSE is to blame because they constantly maintained there was nothing to worry about despite clear evidence to the contrary.

They had a choice of negotiating fairer cuts or blundering on and hoping for the best. They chose the latter.

bleg

"It costs 640m for pharmacists to basically transport drugs to the patient" -HSE spokeswoman

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0731/9news_av.html?2588635,null,230

Fine. **** off and use An Post.

Odysseus

jeepers wrote: »

They forgot about methadone also; frantic faxes and calls doing the rounds all day to no avail.

Would you mind expanding on that? Just out of intererst. Last minute as per usual but the plan appears to be in place for those patients? I won't be involved this time around but in my area things went very smothly with the meth issue at the last dispute.

My understanding [correct me if I'm wrong] is that they will be dispensed take aways if required until the clinics take it over on Tuesday.

bleg

Odysseus wrote: »

Would you mind expanding on that? Just out of intererst. Last minute as per usual but the plan appears to be in place for those patients? I won't be involved this time around but in my area things went very smothly with the meth issue at the last dispute.

My understanding [correct me if I'm wrong] is that they will be dispensed take aways if required until the clinics take it over on Tuesday.

I'm not too sure either. I know in Waterford Boots agreed to take over the Methadone programme. However in Carlow the local Unicare wouldn't take it over despite a call from Harney herself.

Odysseus

bleg wrote: »

I'm not too sure either. I know in Waterford Boots agreed to take over the Methadone programme. However in Carlow the local Unicare wouldn't take it over despite a call from Harney herself.

The last time we opened our doors in the evening to those who would normally be treated in the comminuty, I was working until ten most nights. My unit will not be open this time around, but another one will be and the info on this was been circulated yesterday. They just have to present with a valid script and current ID and they will be taken care of. My understanding only of course as I'm not involved this time around.

It was done in the evening, to attempt minimum disruption to our regular patients, which of course did not suit everyone, but you can't please everyone; and for the record in my first post on this thread I stated my opinion that they are trying to rip you off for your profession services. Just so their are no misubderstandings.

DrIndy

bleg wrote: »

I couldn't believe these when I saw them. More bully boy tactics from the HSE using the Competition Authority.



Also- apparently the HSE is advising politicians that they are not in a position to provide an adequate service.

They won't be able to cope in Donegal and other western counties. Even in Waterford city there are only 5 operating pharmacies according to the HSE list, and we all know how inaccurate that is.

letters are back up as there is no major legal issue raised. They may be removed again though if something transpires. I am concerned as this highlights the gross tactics used by HSE which amounts to bullying by a government body on the other people in this democracy.

bleg

Thanking you, see post 117 everybody! These are the dirty underhanded threats the HSE uses everyday.

tallaght01

Seen in the indo today:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/elderly-will-be-worst-hit-as-chemists-begin-their-boycott-1848874.html

the indo wrote:

Senior HSE official Laverne McGuinness said: "While we cannot fill all the gaps left by pharmacies who have chosen to terminate their agreements, we will endeavour to assist and support patients and clients to secure their medication from participating pharmacies.

"The vast majority of patients and clients get a month's medication at a time so there should be ample time for patients and clients whose usual pharmacy has withdrawn from the State Drug Scheme to make alternative arrangements."

will they be assisting patients to get their meds? If so, why is the HSE drone saying in her next breath "ah sure, you'll have a month to ask someone to give you a lift to one of our pharmacies". Also, does she think all the medication the elderly on are for chronic stuff? What about when they get a new script from their doc?

You'd think that with so many good people out of work right now the HSE could employ someone who knows what they're talking about.

ElBarco

bleg wrote: »

"It costs 640m for pharmacists to basically transport drugs to the patient" -HSE spokeswoman

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0731/9news_av.html?2588635,null,230

Fine. **** off and use An Post.

that would suit me nicely

Soapy Joe

I am told that patients in Inishowen are being offered 100 Euro Taxi round trips to get to Letterkenny to get their prescriptiosn filled. HSE Paying bill - people paying the price in stress and time

frodi

The Mayo scab pharmacy has run out of stock already and it is not even lunch time Saturday. How much longer can this farce go on.

Taxi anyone!

tallaght01

frodi wrote: »

The Mayo scab pharmacy

:pac::pac::pac::P

sillymoo

Is there a list anywhere of the pharmacies that are withdrawing services???

jeepers

sillymoo wrote: »

Is there a list anywhere of the pharmacies that are withdrawing services???

Cystic Fibrosis Ireland has a list here.

http://www.cfireland.ie/docs/pharmacies_who_gave_notice_06_july_6pm.pdf

Through not conclusive as many have kept their contracts and are now just closing till the dispute is over.

bleg

Re post of the letters to IT providers

bleg

Contingency pharmacy in Donegal is sending taxis to Boots in Letterkenny to get stock. 100 euro round trip. They can't do DPS because they forgot to install a till.


The wait in Castlebar is an hour and a half, young and inexperienced staff working there.

3 Pharmacists working in Boots in Waterford City, servicing the whole city.

Boots in Wexford have run out of Antibiotics.

flowerific

They had some Pharmasist on the radio a few weeks ago answering questions from the public. whan asked what the mark up on Private perscripions ie not on medi card was pharmasist said 50%. WTF the is a huge mark up. They get the wholesale price back off the suppliers for the Medi card perscripts plus they get an extra 3eur something off HSE for EACH item of medicine. So if someone hands in a medi card script with 6 items on it the Pharmacy gets the wholesale price back on the drugs plus 12plus eur. They make their money big time off ripping of the private patients, Only in Ireland could they get away with 50% mark up

onetrueone

Mark up at Chip shop/burger joint 300% is that big?

Other posters have answered this question adequtely btw

The 50% mark up is on 20-25% of the business other 75% of prescriptions have No mark up.

NewApproach

flowerific wrote: »

They had some Pharmasist on the radio a few weeks ago answering questions from the public. whan asked what the mark up on Private perscripions ie not on medi card was pharmasist said 50%. WTF the is a huge mark up. They get the wholesale price back off the suppliers for the Medi card perscripts plus they get an extra 3eur something off HSE for EACH item of medicine. So if someone hands in a medi card script with 6 items on it the Pharmacy gets the wholesale price back on the drugs plus 12plus eur. They make their money big time off ripping of the private patients, Only in Ireland could they get away with 50% mark up

And what markup do they get on medical card schemes, which accounts for much more business?

onetrueone

0% markup nada, zilch.

Soapy Joe

Remember Mark UP is not margin - different things.

bleg

Unicare claiming they aren't dispensing to any new patients, don't know how reliable that is though. I do know it's happening in my home town i.e. they're not dispensing to new patients.

NewApproach

bleg wrote: »

Unicare claiming they aren't dispensing to any new patients, don't know how reliable that is though. I do know it's happening in my home town i.e. they're not dispensing to new patients.

Great news, and the fact it was reported in national press likely means its true

nesf

frodi wrote: »

The Mayo scab pharmacy has run out of stock already and it is not even lunch time Saturday. How much longer can this farce go on.

Taxi anyone!

Scab? There are those of us who need a new batch of medication within the next few days and we are the ones suffering in this. I'm lucky, I live in Cork city so I should be able to find a pharmacy that is still in the schemes but back home in the country you're talking about something like a 30-40 mile drive to the closest place handing out meds this month.

I can appreciate the pharmacists' position, what the HSE tried to pull was unreasonable, but equally I think a blanket withdrawal from services without attempting to ensure coverage in rural areas etc is irresponsible.

bleg

NewApproach wrote: »

Great news, and the fact it was reported in national press likely means its true

The national press are reporting 1000 pharmacies are open:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0801/pharmacy.html

Rang the HSE helpline to enquire about Waterford City. She said the only one they had open was Boots, which we already knew. So I asked would the list be updated, she said yes, it's being updated the whole time as more pharmacies end their termination. I asked could Boots cope with the whole city, she said that they might open up the health centre.

You couldn't make this up, it would be hilarious if it wasn't so serious.

peter_de_tool

People who are Ill or injured simply wish to be treated to aleviate or cure their condition. It is shameful that Irish Pharmacists, doctors,nurses and other shameless exploiters of human life and health, not content with their exortinate incomes they were derive from exploiting the sick, have found ways and means to exploit the non-sick as well. As of old, this new from of exploitation hides behind a smoke-screen of altruism, the exploiters are doing it all for the good of humanity, for the public health, for the protection of our children, etc.

bleg

HSE now reporting 1200 pharmacies are dispensing and that the cuts will save 2 billion a year -RTE News 6.1

Comical Ali is alive and well and working in the HSE PR department.


Do they not realise that this BS will strengthen the resolve of the pharmacists?

Prime Mover

A lot of the comments here from people who are aghast at a 33% margin/50% mark-up show how little people know about the Irish retail sector. Thats what any grocery store would expect from a product on sale in its store. The margins on clothes are much higher.

"Irish Pharmacists, doctors,nurses and other shameless exploiters of human life and health, not content with their exortinate incomes.."

Nurses on extortionate incomes. Good one.

peter_de_tool

Irish Nurses are paid significantly more than their UK counterparts, Agency nurses earn typically €300 a shift

sam34

folks can we keep this to the topic at hand please

bleg

Pharmacists now putting together their own information into a database to counter HSE lies. Hoping to have results available for print in Monday's newspapers.

Carsinian Thau

bleg wrote: »

Pharmacists now putting together their own information into a database to counter HSE lies. Hoping to have results available for print in Monday's newspapers.

Because the patients are going to derive so much comfort from a long list of reasons explaining why their pharmacist is refusing to give them their medication?:rolleyes:

I'm not saying which side is right or wrong in all this, but do you honestly expect patients to care all that much? All they care about is the inconvenience and hassle that has suddenly been thrown upon them.

Kurtosis

Carsinian Thau wrote: »

Because the patients are going to derive so much comfort from a long list of reasons explaining why their pharmacist is refusing to give them their medication?:rolleyes:

I'm not saying which side is right or wrong in all this, but do you honestly expect patients to care all that much? All they care about is the inconvenience and hassle that has suddenly been thrown upon them.

Just to elaborate on bleg's post, when he/she said information, this referred to information about what pharmacies are participating in schemes or not, which are open or not and which are accepting new patients. Hence why this may be very useful for worried patients.

Carsinian Thau

penguin88 wrote: »

Just to elaborate on bleg's post, when he/she said information, this referred to information about what pharmacies are participating in schemes or not, which are open or not and which are accepting new patients. Hence why this may be very useful for worried patients.

Oh sorry, I assumed it was an explanation as to why the services were being withdrawn. Which is largely useless at this stage as I'd say everyone has heard the story (from both sides too).

And yes, bleg and penguin88, that information would be of genuine use to a lot of patients.


I think this was the bit that threw me:

bleg wrote: »

database to counter HSE lies

bleg

Sorry about that, penguin has it right. The HSE list cannot be trusted, the only way to know is to ring your local pharmacies. The list put together by the pharmacists will provide a clear picture as to how things are on the ground. The list won't be published in the papers but I hope that journalists (if there are any left in this county) will pick up on it and counter the HSE misinformation.