Audi A6 2.0TDi v BMW 520d dilemma.

dodzy

Hi folks,

in the market for one of the above. 2005/2006. Budget in the region of 16K. Most likely I will travel across the water but I will exhaust the usual channels here first including local dealers & the usual internet sites. Any views / preference for either would be greatly appreciated. Not going to rush into it but I do see the sterling strengthening at the moment so obviously the exchange rate is becoming more of an issue than it would have been several months ago.

bazz26

I'd go for the 520d to be honest. Besides having a more powerful and refined diesel engine in the 5 Series I just cannot warm to the A6. The VAG unit is a little course for this class of car. Also most magazine reviews place the A6 in the shadow of a 5 Series or an E Class.

The only advantages I can see in the A6 is that the interior would be roomier than the 5 Series and you will probably get a newer A6 for your money than a 5 Series.

dodzy

Thanks Bazz,

was also keen to know 1st hand from owners their experience with regards to diesel economy in and around dublin. Also, the 525 tds, albeit a higher yearly tax cost & more on the VRT with regard to emissions g/km, would anybody rave about this when compared to the little brother 520d ? The 530d would be a dream but the yearly tax is a p**s take in my mind.

Ferris

Personally i'd go for the A6 as its more comfortable, better looking and at the moment can be had for silly money. Also it has normal tyres not runflat shams.

The da has one and it does 45-50mpg. Its done 80k and needed a clutch (his fault), a Dual mass flywheel (audi'r fault) and an intercooler which is common on any turbo diesel. Oh and it had a new turbo at 20k under warranty which a scary amount of both types of cars has had. Its essential to get a full service history and nice interior seats (leather) on the audi.

There is 30hp difference on paper but in reality most 2L Tdi's have 150-155 and the 5 series loses a bit of power due to being rwd so on the road the're pretty similar performance wise. Having driven both I think that the 520 is a big car for the engine but the A6 feels reasonably quick and responsive.

Best thing is to test drive both cars and make a decision from there.

Top Dog

I'd say drive both and make your own decision based on that

Top Dog

Ferris wrote: »

the 5 series loses a bit of power due to being rwd so on the road the're pretty similar performance wise.

I was always under the impression that there were less transmission losses in a RWD car when compared with FWD and 4WD as the drive is transferred directly.

VolvoMan

I'm not denying that the 520d is probably the better car. But I would probably go for the A6 on the basis of looks, interior and the fact that it isn't going to be replaced in the next year unlike the the 5 Series.

dodzy

Thanks guys for the detailed info. A test drive in both is a given. Having driven the 530d a few times I'm under no illusions but i'm sure both will have their good points. Now to the specs: ( and please tell me if i'm being a tad optimistic here... )

Audi A6 2.0 TDi. Love the biscuity beige colour with full leather. That said, black or silver are nice - basically I think it's a fine looking bus but MUST have the full chrome pack ( a different car without I feel ). All mod cons. C.Con. Sensors everywhere. Nice alloys also. SatNav. S-line would be nice.

Beemer - Mystic Blue with Beige leather hide. All the bells and whistles. Again, I'm hopin' 16K will see me close ( and as previously stated, I'm in no rush, which I know can historically lead to rushed purchases ):)

Any feelings on the AUTO box in either ?

bazz26

Usually some good choices here: www.autoquake.com

Regarding an auto, just remember that that the auto versions have higher Co2 ratings meaning the VRT is higher on them. Might a small price to pay though if you spend all day in city traffic.

caze

If you are looking at a 5 series diesel I would seriously consider the 525d. Unless you get a 2008 520d there is not a huge differance in tax. I have one almost 2 years and get approx 32-35 mpg in city driving. Very easy to get 40 -45 on long runs. Mine is an auto which I have grown to love around town. Very smooth.
I think its got a good balance between performance and economy without the tax of the 530d. I did look at 520d's also when buying but they were serious money at that stage, have dropped a lot now and to be honest I dont think there is much point buying a BMW unless it has 6 cylinders and all the toys, that's just my opinion though! And can be hard to get the spec you want here, though Irish prices are much more closely alligned to the UK than they used to be.


Now in saying that a 2008 520d with the €160 euro road tax is a serious contender to change my mine on that, but will be a while before they drop into my price bracket and anyhow I'd be hoping to get a 2008 535d in maybe 2 years, I have driven a few and was totally blown away! Just need to keep my job and convince the wife!


Few 525d's
http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=200927194463828

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=200926194444712

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=200925194343613

dodzy

bazz26 wrote: »

Usually some good choices here: www.autoquake.com

Regarding an auto, just remember that that the auto versions have higher Co2 ratings meaning the VRT is higher on them. Might a small price to pay though if you spend all day in city traffic.

Cheers Bazz, was on earlier this weekbut p**s poor recently...on both cars in my price range anyway:(

caze

here's a few other used dealers in the UK that normally have plenty of 5's....

http://www.lillyandconstable.com/

http://www.cramag.com/main.html

http://www.4usedbmw.co.uk/

dodzy

caze wrote: »

If you are looking at a 5 series diesel I would seriously consider the 525d. Unless you get a 2008 520d there is not a huge differance in tax. I have one almost 2 years and get approx 32-35 mpg in city driving. Very easy to get 40 -45 on long runs. Mine is an auto which I have grown to love around town. Very smooth.
I think its got a good balance between performance and economy without the tax of the 530d. I did look at 520d's also when buying but they were serious money at that stage, have dropped a lot now and to be honest I dont think there is much point buying a BMW unless it has 6 cylinders and all the toys, that's just my opinion though! And can be hard to get the spec you want here, though Irish prices are much more closely alligned to the UK than they used to be.


Now in saying that a 2008 520d with the €160 euro road tax is a serious contender to change my mine on that, but will be a while before they drop into my price bracket and anyhow I'd be hoping to get a 2008 535d in maybe 2 years, I have driven a few and was totally blown away! Just need to keep my job and convince the wife!


Few 525d's
http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=200927194463828

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=200926194444712

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=200925194343613

Thanks for the detail Case. Definitely better deals in UK. m also hoping to get a motor with 70K max. Just a thing I have;)

Anan1

dodzy wrote: »

Any feelings on the AUTO box in either ?

To my mind, it's absolutely essential.

Stevie Dakota

Anan1 wrote: »

To my mind, it's absolutely essential.

+1 Manual 5 series a big no no.

Ferris

Top Dog wrote: »

I was always under the impression that there were less transmission losses in a RWD car when compared with FWD and 4WD as the drive is transferred directly.

I think there is more, due to the inertia of 8ft of steel shaft.

coolbeans

I'd be inclined to go for the Audi although to be honest I'm not a big fan of either car.

Why? I'll start with the BMW. Personally I think the 5 is ugly, and wouldn't be too confident re longevity after 100k miles. Parts are really expensive and in real world Ireland (bad roads) you'll end up putting quite a few components in to keep it in tip top shape. This is the reality. Any reputable mechanic will tell you the same.

The Audi is pretty much the same parts wise although the engine is less complex so I'd be more confident in it especially with higher mileage. While it's no beauty the A6 looks a lot better than a ''boggo'' bottom of the range 5 with it's contrived and unresolved Bangle era styling which to my eyes has never looked quite right.
Finally, and yes I know this is subjective (like the styling I suppose), but a four cylinder diesel 5 series just isn't a proper BMW. It's especially not a proper 5 series. OK maybe a 3 series can get away with four cylinders by virtue of its size but the five is supposed to be the ultimate driving machine. The last generation was sold with six cylinders across the range but to boost sales at the expense of their carefully crafted heritage they've grafted an engine in which really does not belong in a sports saloon.
This last point will most likely be understoond by petrolheads only.:D

Heroditas

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

+1 Manual 5 series a big no no.

Really? Took a manual 5 series for a spin there the other day and loved it.
Bit "clunky" in first and second but put that down to not being used to it.

DanThe

In my opinion at the price range I would be buying, 4+ years old.
A manual would be my only choice in either car due to:

A, Reliability
B, Fuel consumption
C, Resale in 3 years time of an 7 year old auto

Granted the newer autos are more efficient than the older ones
The autos are nice and all that and I realise you can have clutch and DMF problems in a manual, But the thought of a big repair bill for an auto box in either car, no thanks.


I would only buy manual. Guess that makes me tight and boring:D

I am not trying to start a auto V's manual argument, just my opinion and preference for putting up mileage trouble free.

dodzy

Any research I've done indicates that the Auto box for either ( on 2005/6 on ) motors seem reliable for the better part

Ferris

dodzy wrote: »

Any research I've done indicates that the Auto box for either ( on 2005/6 on ) motors seem reliable for the better part

Both manufacturers have 'sealed for life' gearboxes. Problem is that they see the 'life' bit as 120k. Most common advice out there is to get a specialist to crack the box open every 60k and change the oil. That way the box should last fine.

galwaytt

DanThe wrote: »

In my opinion at the price range I would be buying, 4+ years old.
A manual would be my only choice in either car due to:

A, Reliability
B, Fuel consumption
C, Resale in 3 years time of an 7 year old auto

Granted the newer autos are more efficient than the older ones
The autos are nice and all that and I realise you can have clutch and DMF problems in a manual, But the thought of a big repair bill for an auto box in either car, no thanks.


I would only buy manual. Guess that makes me tight and boring:D

I am not trying to start a auto V's manual argument, just my opinion and preference for putting up mileage trouble free.

Complete and utter nonsense. I say this with a 1993 car in the garage, with 153k miles on it. And it's auto. There is nothing to support that an auto is either less, or affects, reliability. And don't forget, manual's have clutches. Which are consumable. That's more money, more maintenance.

Besides, a manual car in this class, like an E-Class, is unsaleable, used. Ditto for the lack of leather. Make sure whatever you buy has, both.

The current trend, and the low numbers of new, sold, means auto's are now holding their values at least the same, and possibly better than, the equivalent model in manual.

OP, I do prefer the A6 myself, but the only tiny criticism I'd have is that ride comfort is a tad firm for some people. Esp if people have opted for larger rims, etc.

AugustusMaximus

Whats the story about the BMW auto gearbox in semi-auto mode ?

Are the gears changed via the gear stick or by using paddles behind the wheel ?

Anan1

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

Whats the story about the BMW auto gearbox in semi-auto mode ?

Are the gears changed via the gear stick or by using paddles behind the wheel ?

AFAIK, it depends on the model. My mother has an E90 320d auto, manual changing is via the gear stick - i'm pretty sure more powerful variants have paddles.

Johnboy Mac

galwaytt wrote: »

Complete and utter nonsense. I say this with a 1993 car in the garage, with 153k miles on it. And it's auto. There is nothing to support that an auto is either less, or affects, reliability. And don't forget, manual's have clutches. Which are consumable. That's more money, more maintenance.

Besides, a manual car in this class, like an E-Class, is unsaleable, used. Ditto for the lack of leather. Make sure whatever you buy has, both.

The current trend, and the low numbers of new, sold, means auto's are now holding their values at least the same, and possibly better than, the equivalent model in manual.

OP, I do prefer the A6 myself, but the only tiny criticism I'd have is that ride comfort is a tad firm for some people. Esp if people have opted for larger rims, etc.

+1

Imo, cars like the 5 Series & A6 should have a min. of 6cyl's, petrol or diesel and auto trans. I understand the popularity of the 4cyl versions but if one can afford these particular cars why not have the badge with the engines/box these cars were really designed for.

wellbutty

Have my A6 over 18 months now, best money I've ever spent! I expect there's more toys in the BMW but for driveability, the A6 is a superb car. Mine is the 140bhp two-litre.

fippy

dodzy wrote: »

Hi folks,

in the market for one of the above. 2005/2006. Budget in the region of 16K. Most likely I will travel across the water but I will exhaust the usual channels here first including local dealers & the usual internet sites. Any views / preference for either would be greatly appreciated. Not going to rush into it but I do see the sterling strengthening at the moment so obviously the exchange rate is becoming more of an issue than it would have been several months ago.

Is this really a dilemma??

you have a beautiful problem if you ask me

Eoin

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

Whats the story about the BMW auto gearbox in semi-auto mode ?

Are the gears changed via the gear stick or by using paddles behind the wheel ?

Don't know about the later model 5 series, but I have the semi-auto in my e39 and it's pointless. The gear change is too slow for it to be any fun, and the full auto box in sport or even normal mode is pretty damn good.

You can get an M3 SMG steering wheel with the paddles fitted (probably ~1000 all in), but I don't see the point - though some people swear by them.

dodzy

fippy wrote: »

Is this really a dilemma??

you have a beautiful problem if you ask me

Yeah Fippy. I suppose things could be worse. That said, work aint looking too promising long term so I could be doing a silly thing borrowing a few bob but sure we could all be dead tomorrow. I don't want to end up like that woman who's daughter changed her mattress as a surprise only to realise it was stuffed with cash :eek:

Anyway, I've decided to throw another into the mix. The Lexus IS220. Still lovin the Audi 2.0TDI, in silver with the chrome pack. 5/4 fav at the moment;)

Johnboy Mac

IS220 - not as hansome as the A6 imo, considered by some not to be on par kudos wise with the 5 Series but suspect it's better built overall.

Eoin

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

IS220 - not as hansome as the A6 imo, considered by some not to be on par kudos wise with the 5 Series but suspect it's better built overall.

Would that not be more of a 3 series or A4 rival though?

colm_mcm

Is220d is WAY smaller than an A6. GS300/450h would be closer in size.

Johnboy Mac

eoin wrote: »

Would that not be more of a 3 series or A4 rival though?

Yeah would agree but OP is considering it, I suppose because no diesel available from Lexus other than the IS.

dodzy

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

Yeah would agree but OP is considering it, I suppose because no diesel available from Lexus other than the IS.

Diesel is the priority. Currently in an A4 (1.8T Quattro unfortunately )and love it but would like it bigger hence the A6. The Beemer is what it is but I think that they are all realistically achieveable for circa 16K. The lexus has always attracted me:D

whiterebel

eoin wrote: »

Would that not be more of a 3 series or A4 rival though?

IS220 is smaller in the back than both the A4 and 3 series. A6 is huge in comparison.

dodzy

whiterebel wrote: »

IS220 is smaller in the back than both the A4 and 3 series. A6 is huge in comparison.

A smaller boot than the A4 ! :eek: Struck off the list so. Thanks WR.

bazz26

dodzy wrote: »

A smaller boot than the A4 ! :eek: Struck off the list so. Thanks WR.

I think he was referring to rear leg room and the last time I looked they where quite similar. Maybe you should take a look yourself before ruling anything out.

upthedub

whiterebel wrote: »

IS220 is smaller in the back than both the A4 and 3 series. A6 is huge in comparison.

True

SpannerMonkey

Both great cars the Audi is bigger in the interior with easier to use Multimedia interface but the manual diesel is very clunky ,the Bmw is quicker a hell of a lot nicer to drive and looks a LOT better

VolvoMan

davy_b wrote: »

the Bmw is quicker a hell of a lot nicer to drive and looks a LOT better

You must be joking, right?

If there's one thing the A6 has the 5 Series beaten on it is looks. The E60 5 Series is and always was a horrible looking thing.

SpannerMonkey

VolvoMan wrote: »

You must be joking, right?

If there's one thing the A6 has the 5 Series beaten on it is looks. The E60 5 Series is and always was a horrible looking thing.

granted in standard guise the E60 not fantastic but the sports model is very nice and you must be joking the A6 just screams im retired and am on my way to collect the pension :P well thats what i think every time i see one and i know im not alone on this one , i will say the A6 is a abssolutely lovely car and extremely comfortable cant fault it for that a friend of mine has one and i love going on long drives in it for its comfort inside but to look at and to drive just boring, too like what my father would drive and he aint a spring chicken

Eoin

VolvoMan wrote: »

You must be joking, right?

If there's one thing the A6 has the 5 Series beaten on it is looks. The E60 5 Series is and always was a horrible looking thing.

That one thing is a personal preference. I'm not sure how the A6 and 5 series overlap in terms of release dates, but I think an A6 from 2004 is a pretty bland car. The newer version where the chrome outline on the grill looks like one piece is nicer though.

VolvoMan

davy_b wrote: »

granted in standard guise the E60 not fantastic but the sports model is very nice and you must be joking the A6 just screams im retired and am on my way to collect the pension :P well thats what i think every time i see one and i know im not alone on this one , i will say the A6 is a abssolutely lovely car and extremely comfortable cant fault it for that a friend of mine has one and i love going on long drives in it for its comfort inside but to look at and to drive just boring, too like what my father would drive and he aint a spring chicken

Well it's all down to personal opinion really. I think myself that the A6 is a really clean looking and elegant design without any of the rough angles that adorn the 5 Series. The interior is even nicer as well.

SpannerMonkey

VolvoMan wrote: »

Well it's all down to personal opinion really. I think myself that the A6 is a really clean looking and elegant design without any of the rough angles that adorn the 5 Series. The interior is even nicer as well.

im not disagreeing the interior on all audi's cant be beaten by any other car manufacturer they are top class and the A6 isnt a bad looking car just not for me, so as said down to personal tastes