The rugby forum has gone to pot...

justsomebloke

ok suppose my 2c on the forum.

I think one of the main problems on the forum is ROG, People seem to have a love hate fixation with him that they are willing to debate over and over and over and over and over and over and over and.... well you get my point. I think one single thread should be created for him which can be heavily modded and basically used as 'stupidity' filter where if people troll in that they get instant bans from the forum.

Another problem with the forum is the posters them selves. A lot of time rather then posters rather then reporting of asking people to explain there point they will just take the bate and bring thread further and further off topic untill it is a us versus them provincial battle. This may also stem from the fact that I know a lot of the posters post on both the leinster and munster fans site where they provincial bashing is a bit more acceptable as that is what those sites are more geared for so posters have a tendancy to forget that that this is boards and every sides views should be taken at the same level

One thing I have also found is that there does seem to be an elitist under tone to some of the posters in the forum about how long they have been supporters, that they played rugby at 'x' and not to mention all the other provincial crap that gets dragged up (i.e. all leinster fans are D4 wannabes apparently). The fact is that Rugby is a growing sport in this country with a lot of new people coming into it who are looking to support their team and who don't come from standard rugby areas who haven't played and have no interest in playing the sport however quite often these people are treated as 2nd class people in the forum who's opinion are apparently not as important as others.

Other then that bar the fact I think the mods let some threads go on far too long and that maybe there aren't enough infractions (I don't even read a load of the threads as I know they generally have just desended into the same old arguments) I think the forum is run pretty well

_blank_

I'd like everyone to have a look at this thread from this morning

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055609342

The post was reported, and hopefully the provincial willy waving is nipped in the bud.

Handsome Bob

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Stick me in coach.

Assuming the current mods believe they require an extra pair of hands obv.

This man would be an asset in my humble opinion (that is if he knows anything about Rugby :pac:).

justsomebloke

Des wrote: »

I'd like everyone to have a look at this thread from this morning

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055609342

The post was reported, and hopefully the provincial willy waving is nipped in the bud.

2 weeks maybe a bit harsh but pretty much the right idea as it was a stupid post purely looking to get a reaction

_blank_

Joe the Santa wrote: »

2 weeks maybe a bit harsh but pretty much the right idea as it was a stupid post purely looking to get a reaction

My plan is to come down hard on it, until the message gets through.

If that takes a week of dishing out two week bans, a month, three months.

When people realise it will not be tolerated, then perhaps I'll be a bit more lenient.

There is an obvious problem with this kind of thing in the forum. Harsh treatment is called for, imo.

Tim Robbins

Joe the Santa wrote: »

One thing I have also found is that there does seem to be an elitist under tone to some of the posters in the forum about how long they have been supporters, that they played rugby at 'x' and not to mention all the other provincial crap that gets dragged up (i.e. all leinster fans are D4 wannabes apparently).

You can't give out about anyone and say something like what I have just highlighted in your post.

That's exactly the kind of comment most of us don't want in the forum. It's a silly ad hominen, derogatory, generalistion - one step away from calling us West Brits.

Edit: bad point, apologies Joe the Santa. I think I misunderstood you.

Eoin

Tim Robbins wrote: »

You can't give out about anyone and say something like what I have just highlighted in your post.

That's exactly the kind of comment most of us don't want in the forum. It's a silly ad hominen, derogatory, generalistion - one step away from calling us West Brits.

Um, I think he was giving an example of the crap that's said - here's the full sentence:

and not to mention all the other provincial crap that gets dragged up (i.e. all leinster fans are D4 wannabes apparently)

Tim Robbins

eoin wrote: »

Um, I think he was giving an example of the crap that's said - here's the full sentence:

Apologies.

Trojan

Regards adding new mods, I'd actually spoken to Ruggie about this before this thread was started. We already have some names shortlisted so I'll have a chat with the mods after they all get a chance to read this.

Des, thanks for that, sends the right message. We might need a period of stricter moderation for a few weeks to get folks to toe the line.

_blank_

Tim Robbins wrote: »

That's exactly the kind of comment most of us don't want in the forum. It's a silly ad hominen, derogatory, generalistion - one step away from calling us West Brits.

Um, Joe The Santa is a D4 Wannabe

justsomebloke

ye I was just giving an example of the crap that is put up, cause as a North side dub, who went to a GAA school, doesn't have money to burn (actually I wish I did fit into that category) and have had a season ticket for years I don't fit into the sterotypes of what is thrown about as a Leinster supporter in the rugby forum (actually the worst thing is it is other Leinster fans that have used this sterotype on a few occasions)

justsomebloke

Des wrote: »

Um, Joe The Santa is a D4 Wannabe

Des wrote: »

The fact that I don't follow the sport doesn't mean I can't moderate the forum.

I'm not a Vegetarian either, and I mod that forum just fine

oh ye we all know how you got that gig and who really pulls the strings behind your decisions on that forum :P

dan719

Joe the Santa wrote: »

One thing I have also found is that there does seem to be an elitist under tone to some of the posters in the forum about how long they have been supporters, that they played rugby at 'x' and not to mention all the other provincial crap that gets dragged up (i.e. all leinster fans are D4 wannabes apparently). The fact is that Rugby is a growing sport in this country with a lot of new people coming into it who are looking to support their team and who don't come from standard rugby areas who haven't played and have no interest in playing the sport however quite often these people are treated as 2nd class people in the forum who's opinion are apparently not as important as others.

I think this is unavoidable tbh. And I don't have an issue with it. Someone who has followed and played the game for years will obviously (or should) have a more nuanced understanding then someone who started watching because of a recent grand slam or HC.

An example of such a divergence of views between active players and armchair fans occurs wheneer a foul play debate comes up. Those who play, know how prevalent it is, where as armchair fans tend to go mad and demand criminal charges.

There is no problem with paying more attention to the views of someone who simply knows more, similar to the manner in which Tim's view's (as a ref) tend to be the most listened to on a point of contention regarding the rules.

thomond2006

Generally, during matches there are little problems. I think it is after matches where players are criticized that is the problem here.

davyjose

TBH, it looks as though those of us who want a proper debate can't discuss certain things anymore, namely ROG. I've (Leinster fan) been championing O'gara for years now, but personally I feel other options need to be explored (have done since Humphries retired - simply as back-up), and now I can't discuss this because every thread is locked ... and I dare NOT start one, cos I'll probably get banned from Rugby again.

Sooo, yeah there's need for some regulation, but let's not squeeze the life out of it.

Also, FWIW, a bit of Munster/Leinster banter isn't the end of the world - there is a pretty big rivalry there after all, so if we can keep the personal insults out of it, where's the harm? i mean an Irish Rugby forum where we can't discuss the biggest rivalry in Irish Rugby is just dumb IMO....

/my 2p

LuckyLloyd

LZ5by5 wrote: »

This man would be an asset in my humble opinion (that is if he knows anything about Rugby :pac:).

I know more than a little.

Amabokke

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I know more than a little.

Quick quiz?

Trojan

I agree that another mod would be useful, and we also need to come down a bit harder on the provincial rivalry stuff without stifling discussion altogether .

I spoke to Ruggie and Crash briefly after Crash suggested last week that we might consider adding another pair of hands and we'd actually shortlisted some names already.

I know Crash is away on hols and Ruggie is very busy this week travelling with work, so please don't expect instant action on this: we won't be making any knee-jerk changes but we will work on the issue in the background.

Cheers.

Zzippy

I think Trojan and Des have this covered in their posts.

Solution:
1. Stricter rules, whether in the charter or a sticky, on whats been covered in this thread.

2. A period of really strict moderation, as Des suggests. I've no problem with bans being handed out. Within a couple of months the regular posters will get the message and threads will be much more enjoyable to read and post in. New posters who come on to troll or post rubbish will be much easier to spot, and the rest of us will hopefully be trained to report posts by then

3. An extra mod or 2 to step in quickly before things get out of hand on a thread. Whoever that is I hope they can remain impartial enough themselves. LOL at one or two posters on here nominating themselves when they are part of the problem...

Des I know you're not in the forum that often, and reporting posts would help you a lot more, but this morning's thread was a great example of how the forum should be modded. Keep it up fella!

Tim Robbins

Joe the Santa wrote: »

ye I was just giving an example of the crap that is put up, cause as a North side dub, who went to a GAA school, doesn't have money to burn (actually I wish I did fit into that category) and have had a season ticket for years I don't fit into the sterotypes of what is thrown about as a Leinster supporter in the rugby forum (actually the worst thing is it is other Leinster fans that have used this sterotype on a few occasions)

I'm the same mate. Northside, born and still there. I didn't go to Rugby school either. I'd probably be sick of the sport if I did :-)

Anyway, the stereotype does my head in.

d'Oracle

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I'm the same mate. Northside, born and still there. I didn't go to Rugby school either. I'd probably be sick of the sport if I did :-)

Anyway, the stereotype does my head in.

I am not from north Dublin, I hate the stereotype too.
Thankfully, there are more and more fans every year who don't fit it.
Which is great for rugby.

Viva Bandwagon.

shanagarry

I'm a newbie and don't find the forum too bad, but I tend to ignore the 10 page of ROG bashing, or yet another "the Lions is a money making exercise" thread.

I agree with a lot of the points made above, but one thing I would like to add is a plea for people to read posts properly before replying to them. Posters seem to see one red flag word and are in such a rush to jump down the original posters throat that they don't read the post properly and miss the point half the time. Then ensues 3 pages of bashing before the mistakes are corrected.

I also agree with the point about the elitest attitude of some posters as the play/played rugby. Fair enough, you've actually played, you know a lot about technical aspects etc, but you don't have to have played rugby to have valid opinions on rugby matters, so don't be so quick to jump down the throat of non players purely for that reason.

Diabhal Beag

Hi everybody,
I wouldn't call myself the most frequent of posters in the rugby forum but I do lurk a lot of the time.

The main problems with the forum is that a thread discussing a player's actions during a match will turn vile and personal insults are thrown around.

My opinion on how you could stop this:

1) Any poster who wants to make a controversial point about a player must take a rational and fair way of informing all posters on their two cents and make it clear so that the most basic user can understand.

2) Add another mod. There are some worthy posters who I always think are insightful off the top of my head are Toomevara, stev_0, [Jackass], Robbo and others.
A knowledge of rugby is very important (sorry Des).

These are two ways of making the forum better. Ruggiebear is by far one of the best mods on Boards.

tughfc

i think the rugby forum has turned a bit to dogs but a major reason why is obviously the lions tour being such a huge topic and evidently involving 5 huge rugby nations i believe once the tour is over we may be back to what the forum once was!!

itsallaboutheL

I very rarely post on this forum, but i do read it quite a lot. I have to say that what i see the major problem to be is that a lot of( well informed in must be said) posters refuse to agree to disagree or even try to see the other sides point of view.

On the Provincial front it would be nice to see proper discussions on players, teams and the like but some of the most regular posters tend to be the biggest instigators, now i don't think ye realise ye're doing and i'm sure its not intentional but it really does discourage people from contributing to the forum.

Zzippy

Just remembered another thing - people keep starting different threads on the same topic. For every big match, you get about 2 threads speculating on the team that will be picked, then when the team is announced someone goes and starts a new thread, instead of adding to one of the existing threads, then you get a pre/during/post-match discussion thread, then you often get posters starting an analysis thread, even some posters starting their own analysis thread (how are ya Amabokke! ).
So you get about 4-7 different threads all discussing the one match, and other threads get pushed off the first page, and the whole place is too cluttered. How about doing like the soccer forum and just allow one thread for any match, and all posts have to go on that thread?

RugbyFanatic

The rugby forum where to start?



I was a once heavy contributer to the rugby forum before my unjust banning. Why was I banned? Because I criticised Ronan O'Gara. I always explained every criticism providing logical reasons and examples yet still to many I was simply bashing ROG because he was a Munster player. It seems to me that a lot of posters on the forum simply won't accept their players being criticised and there are a couple of posters who defend their provinces players at all costs even when I am sure deep down they know they are wrong (a good example of this was one poster in particular who defended Quinlan during the eye gouging inciddent).



I believe I was banned because I held an opposing view to many other posters and refused to be bullied into changing that opinion (I still remember being lashed by certain posters about disagreeing at the laughable suggestion that BOD was finished) and as such posters resorted to simply calling my posts provincial bias based and ultimately complaining to get me banned. Whenever I criticised Ronan O'Gara it was simply because I had an agenda and nothing else. My reasons and examples were time and time again ignored.



It seems some posters want a forum where Munster players are applauded and never criticised. They want a type of totalaterian Munster Love in Rugby forum where they are always right and everyone else is simply an evil biased Leinster supporter with diabolical hidden agendas. I was never the most disruptive influence on that forum as is being shown today. I was banned in the hope things would return back to normal but as we have seen they havent. You want to know the main reason the rugby forum descends into chaos? His user name starts with a t ends in a d



I discussed and was banned because people disliked my opinion, simple as. I was not even allowed to discuss Ronan O'Gara because to some posters he is untouchable and they hated that I criticised him with reasons that they couldn't repute. This has to change.



I also put myself forward for the position of moderator of the forum.

tughfc

it has to be said rugbyfanatic is raising a valid point where such things have brought the forum to disrepute and totally stupid talk!! people have to widen there eyes and accept what other peoples opinions on such matters are!! i also would like to see rugbyfanatic as a mod like come on his username says it all!!

Amabokke

Zzippy wrote: »

Just remembered another thing - people keep starting different threads on the same topic. For every big match, you get about 2 threads speculating on the team that will be picked, then when the team is announced someone goes and starts a new thread, instead of adding to one of the existing threads, then you get a pre/during/post-match discussion thread, then you often get posters starting an analysis thread, even some posters starting their own analysis thread (how are ya Amabokke! ).
So you get about 4-7 different threads all discussing the one match, and other threads get pushed off the first page, and the whole place is too cluttered. How about doing like the soccer forum and just allow one thread for any match, and all posts have to go on that thread?

Few brownie points for you zippidy zip...

Take a look at my posts and threads. I'm passionate about rugby and have a general good knowledge about it. I'm unbiased and don't participate in the usual mud slinging threads like "Why do we need the Lions" or "Is Leinster really better than Munster". The problem with creating one BIG forum for a specific match is that there could be 50 replies and alot of people wouldn't bother reading through it, they'll jump to the last 5 and add their opinion based on that. And sometimes they accuse posters of something, which is completely not true because they haven't read through the rest of the pages.

I believe 2-3 threads per match is not a bad idea if rules and guidance are made clear from the start and an extra mod can help.

The reason why some posts are being pushed aside is because they're rubbish and nothing to do with other similar posts.

The Muppet

I don't read the rugby at all but having read a few of the post here it appears to be similar to what soccer was a few years ago.

Banning people because their opinion doesn't meet with universal approvemment is not the way to go. Pandering to the oh so easily offended brigade is not a good thing either. So what if someone thinks RoG is crap, it's only one persons opinion, which they are entitled to express. If eveyone here shared a uniform opinion on everything this would be one dull site.

I would be carful of implememting new laws because people will play the system to the detriment of effective discussion within the forum.

As I said at the outset I don't read the forum so don't know if what been posted here is a accurate account of what has been happening there .