Rally For Life (04-07-2009)

Het-Field

While coming from town on the bus I happened to notice an election poster size flyer on serveral lampposts advertising "The Rally For Life".

Judging by the style, and the design of the poster, its quite clear that Youth Defence are running this. It bears all the hallmarks of a YD poster, particularly in terms of its colour scheme.

Regardless of YD's chequered past, and their blind adherence to the conservative agenda (sometimes this has gone too far, as the exploits of Mr Justin Barrett proved in 2002), I have a serious question about this march.
Bearing in mind that "Youth Defence" name was ditched for the less recognisable "Coir" in the run up to the Lisbon Treaty Referendum, will this march be used for purposes other then the promotion of the Pro Life agenda ? Will it be the beginning of Coir's campaign to proffer lies and spin to the Irish public, and the Lisbon Treaty.

Does anybody know what the motives for the march are, and will the issues of abortion and Lisbon be dovetailed ?

conchubhar1

rally for choice?

turgon

Rally for Life.net < website of the march. Got it via youth defence website.

I like this excerpt: "Her testimony reveals the lengths the pro-abortion lobby will go to achieve their aims." Of course we all know Youth Defence are a peaceful, non-obstructive organisation that help foster productive debate.

conchubhar1

''Every year, millions of unborn children are aborted throughout Europe and the world. Against all odds, and because Irish people have made their pro-life views heard, Ireland remains one of the only EU countries that protects its unborn children from abortion.''

qoute from the above website

so every year many irish women travel to the uk to abort their children

turgon

conchubhar1 wrote: »

so every year many irish women travel to the uk to abort their children

Shush concubar1, that fact has been made up and twisted by the "pro-abortion lobby."

conchubhar1

indeed a vicious truth

P. Breathnach

From the website linked by turgon:

IRELAND IS STILL ONE OF ONLY 3 EUROPEAN
COUNTRIES WHERE ABORTION IS NOT LEGAL –
HELP US TO KEEP IT THAT WAY!!

Has our Supreme Court been wasting its time? They ruled in the X case that abortion might be permissible in Ireland.

What are the other two states? The Vatican, I suppose, and ??? [Is it Malta?]

turgon

P. Breathnach wrote: »

What are the other two states? The Vatican, I suppose, and ??? [Is it Malta?]

Well that statistic is skewed according to Wikipedia. In two European states abortion is never allowed - Vatican and Malta. These are the other two they are on about, I imagine, but yet Abortion can still be sought in Ireland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law#Europe

PrivateEye

Counter-demo

Meeting at 2PM
Outside GPO
Supported by Choice Ireland amongst others.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Choice-Ireland/1474856028#/event.php?eid=141587559912&ref=mf

Themes include (Pardon the CAPSLOCK, its copypasta!)

PROPER SEX EDUCATION
FREE CONTRACEPTION
FREE QUALITY CHILDCARE
IMPROVEMENT IN MATERNITY SERVICES
BETTER SUPPORT FOR SINGLE MOTHERS
SUPPORT FOR LOW-INCOME PARENTS (RE-INTRODUCTION OF EARLY CHILDCARE ALLOWANCE ETC)
NO TAX ON CHILD BENEFIT
FREE IMPARTIAL CRISIS-PREGNANCY COUNSELLING
PROPER REGULATION OF CRISIS PREGNANCY AGENCIES
CLOSE THE WRC
FEMINISM (FEM SYMBOLS)
REAL LIFE
SUPPORT THE LIVING

---

Even if you consider yourself 'Pro Life' basic research will tell you about the dodgey links some individuals on that side of the fence have, not least to the far-right. It'll be interesting to see who is on the march, if they bus them in from the four corners or if its a low-turnout.Notice on the poster theyr'e starting with a MASS at 1PM. I thought it was our job to point out their underlying religious agendas :rolleyes:

conchubhar1

as much as i hate the right-wing

choice in that matter should be allowed - in all circumstances - in ireland.

Het-Field

PrivateEye wrote: »

Counter-demo

Meeting at 2PM
Outside GPO
Supported by Choice Ireland amongst others.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Choice-Ireland/1474856028#/event.php?eid=141587559912&ref=mf

---

Even if you consider yourself 'Pro Life' basic research will tell you about the dodgey links some individuals on that side of the fence have, not least to the far-right. It'll be interesting to see who is on the march, if they bus them in from the four corners or if its a low-turnout.Notice on the poster theyr'e starting with a MASS at 1PM. I thought it was our job to point out their underlying religious agendas :rolleyes:

Youth Defence/Coir are an exception and most of us "pro lifers" are embarrassed by their existence.

Depending on how big the counter demo is, I can imagine some serious ructions between the two. I hope the counter demo have the numbers, and know what they are doing for their own sake.

conchubhar1

why are you one of those pro lifers but pro violence? pro death penalty?

turgon

turgon wrote: »

Rally for Life.net

Way hey, look at those dancers. I'd love to be young again and down with the pro-lifers and their hippity hoppity dance thing.

Reminds me of when the Church used to drag out Father Trendy types with guitars for retreats. Forget the basic message, look, we can be cool too!

Het-Field

conchubhar1 wrote: »

why are you one of those pro lifers but pro violence? pro death penalty?

Consistent life ethic. No to unjust war, no to the death penalty. No to anything along those lines.

conchubhar1

''all human life is sacred'' ?

so a just war is fine? as stated above
it is okay that thousands go to the uk and otehr places to get abortions - once it doesnt happen in ireland (too often as it does happen here)

Het-Field

conchubhar1 wrote: »

''all human life is sacred'' ?

so a just war is fine? as stated above
it is okay that thousands go to the uk and otehr places to get abortions - once it doesnt happen in ireland (too often as it does happen here)

Yes. There is such a thing a a justifiable war. However, it must be carefully selected. Iraq has never been a just war, and has simply been obliterating the American financial coffers. Afghanastan, thats a different matter altogether.

No, it is not acceptable at all. It has been a savage Irish hypocracy. I would far rather Ireland have the balls to put the question straight to the Irish people. If the Irish people agreed to Abortion, then so be it. At least it would be democratic. I would rather proper legislation, then the crap "dont **** on your own doorstep" attitude", which has made abortion the biggest class issue of our time.

conchubhar1

this is not about whether the war is just

it is the fact that in such wars people would die - therefore not all life is not sacred


it is not hypocritical as abortion is a harsh reality - ducking your head in the sand or holding your head high and calling it wrong and forcing it to be illegal
makes people get it elsewhere

Het-Field

conchubhar1 wrote: »

this is not about whether the war is just

it is the fact that in such wars people would die - therefore not all life is not sacred


it is not hypocritical as abortion is a harsh reality - ducking your head in the sand or holding your head high and calling it wrong and forcing it to be illegal
makes people get it elsewhere

Such a thing as proportionality. Furthermore, you seem obsessed with a concept of war that is simply not true. Its a valid war on terrorism. People will die. However, not nearly the same number of "women and children" who are cited by lefty activists when vicariously supporting Osama Bin Laden and the rest of those tools in Al Queda

Im not ducking my head anywhere. Im not defending the Irish position, like you seem to think I amThe law needs changing, either to ban it, or legislate for it. Difficulty is the travel restriction and so on has other implications

conchubhar1

it doesnt matter about war

my point is you dont view all life as sacred - as people die in wars and you admit they are just in certain cases

abortion should be illegal - because it fools noone, women go to the uk or other places for it anyway

Wheely

Het-Field wrote: »

S Its a valid war on terrorism. People will die. However, not nearly the same number of "women and children" who are cited by lefty activists when vicariously supporting Osama Bin Laden and the rest of those tools in Al Queda

I'm sorry!? A valid war on terrorism? Explain that please, and tell me the difference between the war in Afghanistan and the war in Iraq, how one is part of a valid war on terrorism and the other isn't.

Also, lefty activists vicariously supporting Bin Laden and his outfit? Who EXACTLY falls into this category? Anyone and everyone opposed to the war, or just the likes of Cindy Sheehan and her bunch of rabble-rousers?

Tommy T

What a wonderful occasson. The sun shone and everyone was smiling as we took off from Parnell Square. There was far more people taking part than I'd expected. I'd hazzard a guess at 5,000 in total. All ages were represented and again to my surprise at least half of those who took part were between 18-40 and 75% were female.

Brilliantly marshalled(all of whom were again under 30) and great maturity shown when a counter demmo of around 100 SWP/Feminists etc attempted to provoke hostile reactions by giving Nazi salutes and some chanting 'you should have been aborted'... However such ignorance is to be expected and was treated with the contempt it deserved.

I'm not a member of the Rally for Life campaign but will be from Monday morning...

Het-Field

Tommy T wrote: »

What a wonderful occasson. The sun shone and everyone was smiling as we took off from Parnell Square. There was far more people taking part than I'd expected. I'd hazzard a guess at 5,000 in total. All ages were represented and again to my surprise at least half of those who took part were between 18-40 and 75% were female.

Brilliantly marshalled(all of whom were again under 30) and great maturity shown when a counter demmo of around 100 SWP/Feminists etc attempted to provoke hostile reactions by giving Nazi salutes and some chanting 'you should have been aborted'... However such ignorance is to be expected and was treated with the contempt it deserved.

I'm not a member of the Rally for Life campaign but will be from Monday morning...

Horse****. I was having lunch and watching the Lions match in Buswells Hotel with a friend of mine. When the Lions we finished, i popped outside to have a look see. When the March arrived at Government Buildings there was no more then 500 people there. I would be amazed if 4,500 people fell off from the march between Parnell Square and Government Buildings. Furthermore, there were plenty of foreign faces, and Yanks. Equally there were plenty of very young kids who had no idea what they were there for.

Furthermore, there was huge deference paid to Lisbon ii, with the usual bulli**** about Dec 17 being bandied about. I heard none of the speeches, but I had enough anti Lisbon literature thrust into my hand for the five mins that I watched.

It highlights how irrevevant the issue is at the moment. The Government are NOT considering briinging in Abortion. There is no reason to do so, and with the economic climate as it is, it would be a completely unnecessary diversion. YD/Coir will use the upcoming Lisbon referendum to try and be relevant, but they willl be exposed as frauds.

Ironic that the SWP and the YDers would trade insults. The two most regressive forces in Irish politics collide.

j1smithy

Tommy T wrote: »

What a wonderful occasson. The sun shone and everyone was smiling as we took off from Parnell Square. There was far more people taking part than I'd expected. I'd hazzard a guess at 5,000 in total. All ages were represented and again to my surprise at least half of those who took part were between 18-40 and 75% were female.

Brilliantly marshalled(all of whom were again under 30) and great maturity shown when a counter demmo of around 100 SWP/Feminists etc attempted to provoke hostile reactions by giving Nazi salutes and some chanting 'you should have been aborted'... However such ignorance is to be expected and was treated with the contempt it deserved.

I'm not a member of the Rally for Life campaign but will be from Monday morning...

I got caught up in this march and I would have to disagree. (press photographer took a photo of me... hopefully its not printed!:) I do not want to be associated with either left or right wing extremeists ) I really do not think there was anywhere near 5000 people in attendance. Possibly more like 1000.I also noticed that a sizeable proportion of marchers were children or under 18. I do not think it appriopriate for youngsters to bu used in their parents politics. It was distressing to see such indoctrination on both sides. However there were far more in the march for life than there were in the counter demonstration which numbered about 50 to 80. I didn't see any nazi salutes, only the chanting "what do we want, womens rights, when do we want them now".

All that was achieved was to ruin the afternoon for people travelling down o'connell st. There was no need for a march as abortion isn't even close to being on the political agenda. Dare I say it, our political masters have more important and pressing matters to be worried about.

Tommy T

I disagree with obth of you re the numbers but there you have it. I have to laugh when I see people like myself as extreme. So be it. For me it was really heartening to see so many young adults(18-30, I'm 37) willing to go out of their way to support the Right to Life with such pasion and positivity. the bitterness from the abortion supporters was extreme in contrast.

Great day alround...

billy the squid

Calling people pro-abortion is dishonest at best, and insulting at worst.

People are not trying to impose abortion on anyone, as the religeous right are trying to impose unwanted or crisis pregnancies on the rest of us.

To be quite honest, it is not for you me or anyone else to decide whether a woman should or shouldn't have an abortion. it should be the choice of the woman effected.

besically it is none of anyone's bsiness.

Time Magazine

billy the squid wrote: »

To be quite honest, it is not for you me or anyone else to decide whether a woman should or shouldn't have an abortion. it should be the choice of the woman effected.

I don't think I'd murder anyone myself, but I wouldn't dream of imposing my views on another young woman who wanted to murder?

Tommy T

billy the squid wrote: »

Calling people pro-abortion is dishonest at best, and insulting at worst.

People are not trying to impose abortion on anyone, as the religeous right are trying to impose unwanted or crisis pregnancies on the rest of us.

To be quite honest, it is not for you me or anyone else to decide whether a woman should or shouldn't have an abortion. it should be the choice of the woman effected.

besically it is none of anyone's bsiness.

Pro-abortion is what they are. Why try and be Jesuitical about it. I have no time for the Catholic Church. Never have. But I'll go to my grave supporting the right to life of all human beings, born and unborn...

PrivateEye

and great maturity shown when a counter demmo of around 100 SWP/Feminists etc attempted to provoke hostile reactions by giving Nazi salutes and some chanting 'you should have been aborted'...

Same demo?

Yours had the Christian Solidarity Party on it, fascists (visit Stormfront to see for yourself) the same Youth Defence bigots who attacked a Pride March in years gone by (and we all remember their fascist mate Justin :rolleyes:) and old people who felt the need to shout 'Fagg0ts' at me and the other lads on the demo.

We also had numerous members of Anti Fascist Action there, and I don't recall one nazi salute. Only right wing people I seen where marching, one telling us Lisbon equals "Gays getting married and murdered children"

I also didn't see great maturity from Youth Defence in relation to the counter demo, a handful of them tried to block the crowd from seeing us. Youth Defence pretending something they can't see isn't there..... enjoy shipping women off to England mate, if you cant see it its not there should have been your slogan today.

----

Nice to see you managed to get more out than the victims of clerical abuse. I felt sure to make my feelings known on that matter to the man (wearing rosary beads) who felt the need to call me a fagg0t.

As for you should have been aborted, I don't recall hearing that once either. I did hear plenty of abuse telling us where to go however. It was a typical showing from the lunatic mob that is Youth Defence, backed up their friends in low places and a few 'on the way out' nuns and priests. You should be really proud of yourselves. Most reactionary march I've ever seen.


The counter-demo was called 4 days ago, only advertised on Facebook/Indymedia, and recieved massive support from ordinary people on the streets. I thought the religious right would be just a part of your demo, but they were your demo. Lets have Mass before a March! Lets all carry rosary beads and throw holy water at the counter-demo. At least we only offered you condoms.

And I'm not SWP

Tommy T

PrivateEye wrote: »

Same demo?

Yours had the Christian Solidarity Party on it, fascists (visit Stormfront to see for yourself) the same Youth Defence bigots who attacked a Pride March in years gone by (and we all remember their fascist mate Justin :rolleyes:) and old people who felt the need to shout 'Fagg0ts' at me and the other lads on the demo.

We also had numerous members of Anti Fascist Action there, and I don't recall one nazi salute. Only right wing people I seen where marching mate, one telling us Lisbon equals "Gays getting married and murdered children"

I also didn't see great maturity from Youth Defence in relation to the counter demo, a handful of them tried to block the crowd from seeing us. Youth Defence pretending something they can't see isn't there..... enjoy shipping women off to England mate, if you cant see it its not there.
----

Nice to see you managed to get more out than the victims of clerical abuse. I felt sure to make my feelings known on that matter to the man (wearing rosary beads) who felt the need to call me a fagg0t.

And I'm not SWP

Your sexual orientation is of not interest to me or relevance to our March for the unborn today... I saw a group of up to 10 pro abortion advocates raising Nazi salutes in a mocking fashion at us outside the GPO. Also others did chant 'you should have been aborted'...

I'm not a member of any group but after today's very positive experience I intend to give more time and energy to the movement...

PrivateEye

Your sexual orientation is of not interest to me or relevance to our March for the unborn today...

Exactly. Its not relevant. I'm not gay for what its worth, but when you're dealing with the religious right I suppose you're either gay or working for the E.U if you think they're wrong


I

saw a group of up to 10 pro abortion advocates raising Nazi salutes in a mocking fashion at us outside the GPO

mocking fashion

getityet?

Google Justin Barrett.

If you don't want Youth Defence (who were all over todays march) not to be labelled as fascists, don't hang around with fascists. Pretty simple really.

I'm not a member of any group but after today's very positive experience I intend to give more time and energy to the movement...

The movement? Why don't you set up a movement for real sexual education in schools, or a movement that wants to prevent all further cuts to social welfare/child benefits so women dont feel the need to have abortions in the first place?

The general vibe of that crowd was

"Here you, dont have sex.
and if you have sex, dont use a condom.
and if you dont use a condom, you'll get pregnant.
and if you get pregant, dont have an abortion.
because eh....jesus mary and joseph."

The majority of the crowd were carrying religious symbols with them, it was bizarre to watch. Actually in light of the recent solidarity demo for the victims of clerical sex abuse (you know, like eh...living kids) it was ac tually depressing.

On a sunny day the dark ages look even blacker.

PrivateEye

....and to people saying 'I'm pro life but I hate Youth Defence/Coir' that's all well and good but why go on a march called by/stewarded by and promoting them?

The following is from a press release issued by a group of Pro Choice UCD students after they stopped Justin Barrett from speaking on their campus

They have intimidated women and bullied and assaulted pro-choice activists in the past. Justin Barrett, the known fascist, has been a former leader of the group and during his tenure the group broke up pro choice meetings with hurlies and bats. Barrett who was forced from the podium in UCD last year by Anti Fascist Action at an L&H debate on immigration has addressed the NDP in Germany and Forza Nuova in Italy (both neo-Nazi fronts), and has written much anti-woman, anti-gay and anti-immigrant literature in the past.

Youth Defence are dangerous. They don't want to talk about sexual education, the idea of building a real campaign opposed to the socio-economic factors that force women to go to England for abortions, or debate the tricky issues like backstreet abortions (non-nationals for example who fear leaving the state)

My father is now 20 years in the Dublin Fire Brigade, and says backstreet abortions gone wrong, while he's only seen two, are the memory he'll never get out of his mind from the job. To ignorantly march alongside priests and nuns, and every lu-la in the country with a bottle of holy water with such a simplistic demand (THINK OF TEH CHILDREN!!!11) and not look at the issue in real te rms sums up Youth Defence.

One family outside the GPO, but clearly with a nice enough following of fringe-types they can mobilise quick enough.