want to join union

fatherted09

i have been working as an electrican for the last 13 years but never completed my exams, which means i have never recieved my completion cert. Is there anyway that i can join the teeu(not as a general operative)?

Davy

Well you could join as apprentice i presume

clinchy

yeah i think u can join as a general worker http://www.teeu.ie/0002.asp

2011

First of all you may find that the union may not see you as a qualified electrician. I recall electricians telling me that the TEEU wanted proof that exams were passed and time served before membership was considered.

Secondly this may not be a good time to join. According to the news they are planning strike action in the very near future.

This is from thier website:

The TEEU has now served Employers with notice of Strike Action from 6th July 2009. This Strike Action against Employers in the Electrical contracting industry is to safeguard Registered Employment Agreements and needs the full support of TEEU members.Success will ensure that Registered Employment Agreements will continue to serve the industry to benefit our members but success will also make Employers think twice before launching an attack on other agreements that serve our members through-out the State.

The union also seems to have an issue with electricians that have not joined the moment that they first qualified. They have looked for people to back date payment to the time that they first qualified. I dont think that they would look for all of it, but a portion.

Graham_B18C

I'm an apprentice and they're telling us all we've to join now for free so we'll have to strike come monday

secman

Heard the Guy from TEEU on radio this morning, what a dinosaur, earth is flat ! The previous interview to his, was all about Ireland almost going broke and another estimated 100,000 people to join dole queue. And he's looking for an 11% pay increase ! Absolute Joker. I've spoken to a few sparks lately and they were NOT balloted, in recent weeks, not this year in fact, apparently this is an old ballot result to strike !

Secman

clinchy

yeah we voted sometime last year on this ballot if things go the way the employers we will be working for minimum wage eventually

.G.

secman wrote: »

Heard the Guy from TEEU on radio this morning, what a dinosaur, earth is flat ! The previous interview to his, was all about Ireland almost going broke and another estimated 100,000 people to join dole queue. And he's looking for an 11% pay increase ! Absolute Joker. I've spoken to a few sparks lately and they were NOT balloted, in recent weeks, not this year in fact, apparently this is an old ballot result to strike !

Secman

Maybe they aren't in the union then

Employers went to the high court,We held the ballot,the result was strike,then the labour court intervened and the union was advised to hold off while that process was under way.

The labour court ruled against the employers who wanted our REA cancelled and who despite this still won't engage with the union to negotiate on our terms and our pay and have indicated they want a ten percent cut,and to be allowed use non qualified people to do sparks work.Thats to name but a few things they want that are unacceptable.

Thats why we strike.

Graham_B18C

superg wrote: »

Maybe they aren't in the union then

Employers went to the high court,We held the ballot,the result was strike,then the labour court intervened and the union was advised to hold off while that process was under way.

The labour court ruled against the employers who wanted our REA cancelled and who despite this still won't engage with the union to negotiate on our terms and our pay and have indicated they want a ten percent cut,and to be allowed use non qualified people to do sparks work.Thats to name but a few things they want that are unacceptable.

Thats why we strike.

So you'd rather be out of work than be on 10% less than you're on now?

All the sparks I work with are in the union and none of them got to ballot, the TEEU represents 10000 of the 28000 electricians, where do the other 18000 get a say in all this? Everyone in Ireland is getting pay cuts to try keep their jobs and we're out striking, all this will do is lose a LOT of peoples jobs.

clinchy

To be honest id rather strike this is the first of many cut backs that will come in to play imo

.G.

Grahamo999 wrote: »

So you'd rather be out of work than be on 10% less than you're on now?

All the sparks I work with are in the union and none of them got to ballot, the TEEU represents 10000 of the 28000 electricians, where do the other 18000 get a say in all this? Everyone in Ireland is getting pay cuts to try keep their jobs and we're out striking, all this will do is lose a LOT of peoples jobs.

If only it was as black and white as that.

People are taking cuts on wages that have been increasing every year.Ours hasn't since 2007,which was based on 2006 rates.The AECI,on top of a 10% cut(15% for apprentices)want to be able to employ joe soaps to do electrical work.So that means there'll be far less sparks jobs anyway.Why would they employ 10 sparks when they could get 7 People straight from Mcdonalds to do wiring and have them backed up by 3 sparks.

Not only that but the NECI want the REA scrapped altogether,so the can pay us whatever they see fit.You might accept 10% but would you accept 40,50%?,cos that could happen if the REA gets cancelled.


I don't think the union is doing a good job publicising exactly what this strike should be about.Ask Joe public what its about and they'll say we want a pay rise cos thats all they see and hear in the media.I don't think anybody really wants an increase,its the conditions and the REA itself that need protecting.I don't want a wage increase,i just not having a wage cut.I'm not big on unions but to have a say I need to be in one,if the other 18,000 wanted a say they shouldve joined and had it.If they don't fancy striking,then cross the pickets if they must.The union have said they would like everyones support but they understand not everyone is in a position to go on strike.

As for those who didn't get a ballot paper,get them to check what details the union holds on them.Maybe they aren't up to date

2011

People are taking cuts on wages that have been increasing every year.Ours hasn't since 2007,which was based on 2006 rates

This is true, but it is all about timing. This is not a good time to look for more pay! As you say people are taking pay cuts at present. The public find it hard to believe that one of the highst paid trades is looking for an increase in this climate.

The AECI,on top of a 10% cut(15% for apprentices)want to be able to employ joe soaps to do electrical work.

I dont know what you mean here. Can you explain what work they want non electricians to do?? Thanks.

The truth is that the more electricians cost in wages the more people will try to avoid employing them. They are in danger of out pricing themselves from the shrinking market.

Not only that but the NECI want the REA scrapped altogether,so the can pay us whatever they see fit

The very few (if any) NECI members ever had any part of the negotians on the "agreed" hourly rate for electricians in the first place. So how would you expect them to support an agreement that they had no say in??

You might accept 10%

The TEEU want over 11% increase, they say they will not accept a decrease.

Ask Joe public what its about and they'll say we want a pay rise cos thats all they see and hear in the media.I don't think anybody really wants an increase

That was my understanding TBH.
According to an article on the front page of the "Irish Times":

The TEEU is set to place pickets at more than 200 construction sites and at a number of manufacturing firms around the country over a pay claim that would push the rate for electricians up by more than 11 per cent, from an existing €21.49 to €23.98 an hour.

See link:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0704/1224250046478.html

Graham_B18C

superg wrote: »

If they don't fancy striking,then cross the pickets if they must.The union have said they would like everyones support but they understand not everyone is in a position to go on strike.

It aint an ideal world and everyone knows full well that nobody will cross the picket

.G.

2011 wrote: »

This is true, but it is all about timing. This is not a good time to look for more pay! As you say people are taking pay cuts at present. The public find it hard to believe that one of the highst paid trades is looking for an increase in this climate.
I don't think we really are looking for an increase as I'll explain in my last point of this reply.Its just not being put out there very well what the real issues are.

I dont know what you mean here. Can you explain what work they want non electricians to do?? Thanks.

Thats the problem,only they know what they mean but it was in a document handed by them to the union as to what they want to be included in the new REA.Does it really matter anyway,if they are employed to wire a fuseboard or to pull cables its still one less electrician being employed to do that work.Did we all study,spend 4 years doing our time and keep ourselves abreast of our constantly changing job so that someone can walk from McDonalds and do our work for us.Even this point is being mis represented,in the radio debate yesterday the AECI man thought the union had a problem with the fact that these people would be paid 25% less than a sparks when its the fact that they will be employed at all is the issue.Straight over his head that one went,and he's one of their main men:rolleyes:

The truth is that the more electricians cost in wages the more people will try to avoid employing them. They are in danger of out pricing themselves from the shrinking market.

If everybody stops cut throating each other than recession or not people would be forced to pay whatever it takes to get their work done.Plumbers earn more than us yet nobody complains they are too expensive cos their industry isn't gutting itself for work.Prices given for jobs should include the rate you are obliged to pay,it would seem currently prices don't include that,so whose fault is it that prices being achieved for jobs are falling.


The very few (if any) NECI members ever had any part of the negotians on the "agreed" hourly rate for electricians in the first place. So how would you expect them to support an agreement that they had no say in??

I've said it elsewhere on these boards the fact remains they knew of the REA's existance before they went in to business so can't complain about not having a say in it now.Alot of NECI members are former members of the ECA or AECI I'd presume and therefore had a say into it at one point.They knew by leaving these organisations they'd give up there chance to have a say,much like sparks have no say unless members of the union.Anyway if you want a say in it then join the AECI or the ECA.


The TEEU want over 11% increase, they say they will not accept a decrease.

IMO the unions demand for an 11% increase is to offset the Employers demand for a 10% cut and are probably hoping that we end up staying as we are.In other words the union say "you want 10 percent decrease,we are already due 11% more than we are on so that is in effect your 10% decrease.




That was my understanding TBH.
According to an article on the front page of the "Irish Times":

This is exactly my point,the real issues are not being highlighted properly by those in a position to highlight them.The Employers are doing an excellent job of making us look like greedy gits but theres far more to it than that.The Union have complained about the employers mis-representing the issues at stake here yet do little to rectify that from where I'm standing.




See link:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0704/1224250046478.html

I don't know how to split the post into bullet points as you do so Ive replied like this.

Graham_B18C

superg wrote: »

I don't know how to split the post into bullet points as you do so Ive replied like this.

Carpenters and Brickies were already hit, sparks now, Plumbers are next

.G.

If we lose our REA every job that is protected by one will be next,plumbers included.Then they can pay us minimum wage if they want to and hire anyone,qualified or not to do our job.They might not pay us only that but there'd be nothing stopping them from it.

A race to the bottom which you seem more than willing to be at the front of.You think they'll stop at 10% if they get it.They won't.They'll be back next year looking for more,or maybe they won't have to be if a judge decides to bin our REA in the mean time.Then I may aswell work in McDonalds,far less to learn for probably same pay

You've have your view I've had mine,we can go back and forwards all day,I can't be arsed,just wanted to highlight that its not about a pay rise as far as I'm concerned.

Lets just see what happens.

2011

Alot of NECI members are former members of the ECA or AECI I'd presume and therefore had a say into it at one point.

This is simply not true. The AECI had 180 members when the rates of pay were "agreed", yet the "agreement" is applied to all 5,275 electrical contractors in Ireland.

If everybody stops cut throating each other than recession or not people would be forced to pay whatever it takes to get their work done

The problem is many people simply do not have the money.

You cant get blood out of a stone. If the price of emplying electricians is not affordable people will look for a way around it. This happened before with the brickies. Buildings were designed to be built with less brickwork! They can also be wired with less electricians (or less expensive/qualified ones).

Plumbers earn more than us yet nobody complains they are too expensive

They do complain. Just like electricians, many plumbers are out of work now.

Prices given for jobs should include the rate you are obliged to pay,it would seem currently prices don't include that,so whose fault is it that prices being achieved for jobs are falling.

You could apply that logic to anything but the reality is wages in every sector are being cut, people are being let go, businesses are going to the wall, and contractors often cant get paid. These are tough times!! This is simply not the time to look for more money!

just wanted to highlight that its not about a pay rise as far as I'm concerned.

You might be right.

Menas

Interesting reading in this thread. But as someone who recently took a 10% pay decrease and is happy just to have a job I can not believe that the electricians are selfish enough to go on strike, putting further pressure on their own and other workers jobs.
It is a disgrace.

.G.

2011 wrote: »

This is simply not true. The AECI had 180 members when the rates of pay were "agreed", yet the "agreement" is applied to all 5,275 electrical contractors in Ireland.

The agreement for determining wage came into effect in 1998,every contractor since then is bound by it.they should,therefore,have joined and still can join one of said groups and have a say into it.


The problem is many people simply do not have the money.

You cant get blood out of a stone. If the price of emplying electricians is not affordable people will look for a way around it. This happened before with the brickies. Buildings were designed to be built with less brickwork! They can also be wired with less electricians (or less expensive/qualified ones).

If less expensive ones don't exist they have no choice but use the ones that do exist.They already want to employ non qualifed people to do it so less jobs for us anyway


They do complain. Just like electricians, many plumbers are out of work now.

Yes some are out of work,this will happen to all industry in tough times.However Their employer groups aren't looking for a wage drop or to have their REA cancelled.Fact is during the boom electrical contractors started coming out of everywhere trying to get a piece of the action.This didn't happen in plumbing hence,with far less contractors looking for the reduced work now available far less cost cutting on prices happens.




You could apply that logic to anything but the reality is wages in every sector are being cut, people are being let go, businesses are going to the wall, and contractors often cant get paid. These are tough times!! This is simply not the time to look for more money!

I know that,I don't want more money and I've already explained why I think the union are pressing this claim




You might be right.

We'll see

We can go on all day,the strike is on,now we must see what comes of it.

.G.

One final point.

From reading the submissions to the labour court during the hearing and before it,The NECI stated that they had no issue with the rates as they currently stand,They did however have a problem with "add ons" such as travel pay and obviously the rates going up.They also wanted either the REA cancelled or to be given a say into it.

During the debate on liveline on friday two of the contractors who spoke also said they can pay the rates as they are.

Hence,It would seem to me that a pay freeze is desirable but more importanly sustainable in the current climate and I would have no problem signing up for that.You can bin the add on's too since I don't get them and I would venture that only employees of the Big companies do

2011

they should,therefore,have joined and still can join one of said groups and have a say into it.

Not that simple! Small companies can not join that easily. This is for the "big boys".

Anyway I am sure that the agreed rates are not too much of a problem for the large contractors, but a very big one for small contractors. The price per point for domestic installations has not increased as much as the rates of pay.

If less expensive ones don't exist they have no choice but use the ones that do exist

Correct, but in reality they do exist. Many electricians have never been paid the going rate. As pointed out before foreign electrical contractors work here employing electricians form other countries at lower rates. They do not even wire to our regulations and they get away with it.

They already want to employ non qualifed people to do it so less jobs for us anyway

Exactly, and this will get worse now.

Fact is during the boom electrical contractors started coming out of everywhere trying to get a piece of the action

True.

I don't want more money and I've already explained why I think the union are pressing this claim

Fair enough

They did however have a problem with "add ons" such as travel pay and obviously the rates going up

"add ons" can be worth lots. I think country money is in the region of €200 a week tax free. Travel time for most large projects is a minimum of 2 hours per day from what I have seen.

During the debate on liveline on friday two of the contractors who spoke also said they can pay the rates as they are.

I am sure many large companies can afford it, it is the small ones that cant.

You can bin the add on's too since I don't get them and I would venture that only employees of the Big companies do

... that can afford it, yes I would agree.

Best of luck superg, I hope it works out for you!

Fishtits

These guys are living in cloud cuckoo land.

Regardless of the issues, the optics are that Joe Public sees sparks striking because they are being denied an 11% rise...


Note the text in bold before you reply.

clinchy

i agree with u on how the joe public will see but this was promised to use during the good times when the employers were making nice money and we still didnt get it now its a matter of trying to keep our wage some what decent

.G.

As with any dispute you'll have those in favour and those not.

We haven't helped ourselves with the "optics" by a poor show from the union in the run up and by various slack jawed yokels at the airport site getting interviewed by RTE radio and not having any real idea of why they are on strike.

Thankfully Jack O'Connor and finally Eamonn Devoy have today made a better fist of highlighting the other issues at play.Theres also plenty of info online available for those that wish to find it to educate themselves such as the full labour court report,Various Items on the TEEU website and for those wishing to get both sides the NECI website is a good source too.