Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

you are bord snip your 10 biggest cuts?

Options
12467

Comments

  • Options
    #92
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    bonzos wrote: »
    I a friend who works in the civil service and he openly admits that it is a total holiday camp. I often recieve 15-20 emails(jokes etc..) day from him,he also admits that he is reminded by other "employees" when he has sick days unused that cant be carried over to the next year...his own view on it is "its like a game,you just have to knoe hoe to play it to your advantage"

    Excuse me for asking- but whats a sick day?
    Surely they are expected to provide a medical cert for any sickness- like everywhere else? In my opinion your friend has a serious attitude problem- and in the current climate is playing a very very dangerous game. If he/she imagines they are safe from being fired- or if they're constantly ill- being forced to retire on illhealth grounds- they are seriously deluded.


  • Options
    #93
    Firetrap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,442 ✭✭✭Firetrap


    It annoys me when I read posts like that one. I've no doubt there are slackers in the civil/public but it's important to bear in mind that there are also a lot of people who go to work, do a decent day's work and don't treat it like a holiday camp.

    As for sick days. My memory's a bit hazy at this stage but there was a limit to the number of uncertified sick days you could take. I think it was 7 over 3 years but I could be wrong. Once someone reached 5 days, they'd get a warning letter. I think if you took too many sick days off it could cause problems with increments and going for promotions.


  • Options
    #94
    LookingFor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,682 ✭✭✭LookingFor


    It's unfair to generalise about the entire civil service..the workload varies from department to department, office to office. I've no doubt there are some for whom it is a holiday camp, but some folks are swamped (like, for example, social welfare at the minute).

    The workforce in the civil service needs to be more liquid to respond to demands in different areas. Social Welfare are having a hard time getting the staff they need, just because people from other departments don't want to move to Social Welfare (because they know it's the most pressured dept right now). Managers seem afraid to simply order people to report to another department due to politics and/or unions.

    Knowing civil servants who actually do work their asses off, they would really welcome performance related pay, because they know there are others at the same grades in different areas getting paid the same amount for doing a fraction of the work they do. Benchmarking is a matter of fairness for the workers themselves as much as it's about getting value for money for the tax payer.

    Also, regarding 'sick days', I've worked plenty of jobs none of which were in the civil service where people were allowed a certain number of single days of sick leave with no medical slip required.. one job it was something like 5 days per year. If you needed more than one day off at a time you needed a doctor's cert. I'm sure other parts of the private sector, other employers are much stricter about it..but relatively generous sick leave terms, and also relatively flexible working hours, aren't exclusively the domain of the civil service.


  • Options
    #95
    Tommy T
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Tommy T


    NewDubliner wrote: »
    Don't you have to work up the 18 days by coming in to work early, leaving late or taking a shorter lunch. You make it sound like something for nothing.

    .

    Of course. You work up time off in lieu. Its a great system. I get a day and a half off every 4 weeks aside from my annual leave. As I said its one of the only perks of the job...


  • Options
    #96
    Tommy T
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Tommy T


    smccarrick wrote: »
    It most certainly is not this way across the civil service-.

    Can you name one Govt Dept that doesn't operate flexi-time for CO's and EO's..? As everyone I know does...


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #97
    Tommy T
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Tommy T


    smccarrick wrote: »
    Without pointing fingers- the CPSU and their members- are at the forefront of this brigade. They represent the lower levels of the civil service, public sector and some staff in formerly state owned companies (such as Eircom etc). Their members are in many cases better paid and have more holidays than officers more senior to them- simply because the government gives in to their pickets.

    .

    With respect what planet are you on...? How on earth could any CO be on better money than an EO with the same length of Service?????

    The CPSU proudly make every effort to represent its members and fightd tooth and nail to preserve our T&C's of employment... It's to the shame of the leaderdhips of the PSEU, IMPACT and ICTU in general(who dance to the IBEC tune) that we've had to act alone...


  • Options
    #98
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Tommy T wrote: »
    With respect what planet are you on...? How on earth could any CO be on better money than an EO with the same length of Service?????

    The CPSU proudly make every effort to represent its members and fightd tooth and nail to preserve our T&C's of employment... It's to the shame of the leaderdhips of the PSEU, IMPACT and ICTU in general(who dance to the IBEC tune) that we've had to act alone...

    SOs have 3 days more annual leave than do EOs. A new EO starts on less than a CO near the top of their scale- ditto SOs. Its been up in council several times- most recently earlier this year.

    Whether people like it or not- wages are too high- and will have to be revised downwards- in conjunction with a restructuring of abondonment of the minimum wage. Given that public sector pensions were allegedly taken into account during the last benchmarking exercise- a revised negative benchmarking scheme- should also do away with the public sector pension levies- but it must be open and comparable- so everyone knows exactly where it is coming from.


  • Options
    #99
    Tommy T
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Tommy T


    smccarrick wrote: »
    SOs have 3 days more annual leave than do EOs. A new EO starts on less than a CO near the top of their scale- ditto SOs. Its been up in council several times- most recently earlier this year.

    Whether people like it or not- wages are too high- and will have to be revised downwards- in conjunction with a restructuring of abondonment of the minimum wage. Given that public sector pensions were allegedly taken into account during the last benchmarking exercise- a revised negative benchmarking scheme- should also do away with the public sector pension levies- but it must be open and comparable- so everyone knows exactly where it is coming from.

    Well obviously someone on the top of their scale will be on more as a CO than someone starting off as an EO... However a CO will always be on less money than an EO at the same point of their respective salary scales...

    Now, can you give me one Govt Dept that doesn't provide flexi-time to all CO's and EO's...?

    The CPSU quite simple will never accept and reduction in salary levels of it's members. The 2 Brians know this too...


  • Options
    #100
    Firetrap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,442 ✭✭✭Firetrap


    They might not have any choice in the matter. Cuts in their wages will be small fry in comparison to the threats to their penson/security of tenure.


  • Options
    #101
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Tommy T wrote: »
    Well obviously someone on the top of their scale will be on more as a CO than someone starting off as an EO... However a CO will always be on less money than an EO at the same point of their respective salary scales...

    The fact of the matter is that EO has almost wholly replaced AO as graduate recruitment grade- and in recent years- you needed relevant qualifications and/or significant experience to make it through the recruitment process at this grade. This is vastly different from the recruitment process for a CO. If you consider that someone with significant experience and in many cases professional qualifications- is earning less than someone who refuses to do anything other than basic admin work- something is up somewhere. Should the length of time you have had your arse in a chair determine your salary- or should your job and what you bring to it- determine your salary? I know your answer- I'd argue the latter though.
    Tommy T wrote: »
    Now, can you give me one Govt Dept that doesn't provide flexi-time to all CO's and EO's...?

    There is no government department that supplies blanket flexitime privilleges to its staff, none, not one. Sure there are entire offices where people think its a right, a perk- an entitlement- and indeed perhaps these attitudes have been tolerated for a long time. Don't be surprised when you hear of developments in this area though......
    Tommy T wrote: »
    The CPSU quite simple will never accept and reduction in salary levels of it's members. The 2 Brians know this too...

    Really. Well tough then. The government can change remuneration of civil servant at will. It doesn't have to partake of the niceties of the partnership process. The intransience of the CPSU may very well be its downfall. Keep in mind- other unions have in the past specifically instructed their members to cross CPSU pickets (the PSEU and the AHCPS in Agriculture for example).


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #102
    Tommy T
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Tommy T


    smccarrick wrote: »
    There is no government department that supplies blanket flexitime privilleges to its staff, none, not one.


    There you go again. Can you not give us one example...?

    In reality flexi-time is available to CO's and EO's in all Depts...


  • Options
    #103
    Tommy T
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Tommy T


    Alas ICTU has sold out to IBEC almost completely and to the extent where the PSEU leadership told its mmebers to pass our picket on Feb 26th last. However the PSEU grassroots are totally fed up with their executive and will not stand for and change to their salaries and will join us on the picketline along with IMPACT members...


  • Options
    #104
    bonzos
    Registered Users Posts: 806 ✭✭✭bonzos


    smccarrick wrote: »
    Excuse me for asking- but whats a sick day?
    Surely they are expected to provide a medical cert for any sickness- like everywhere else? In my opinion your friend has a serious attitude problem- and in the current climate is playing a very very dangerous game. If he/she imagines they are safe from being fired- or if they're constantly ill- being forced to retire on illhealth grounds- they are seriously deluded.
    He is in his job so many years now that wuold be almost impossible to fire him...if anyone questions him (which they wont) on his work performance it is concidered harrisment,like he said you just need to know the rules of the game.As for sick certs ,doctrs hand out sick certs like lotto tickets these days.


  • Options
    #105
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Tommy T wrote: »
    Alas ICTU has sold out to IBEC almost completely and to the extent where the PSEU leadership told its mmebers to pass our picket on Feb 26th last. However the PSEU grassroots are totally fed up with their executive and will not stand for and change to their salaries and will join us on the picketline along with IMPACT members...

    Under ICTU rules Single Union strikes don't have the right to call on other Unions to strike

    perhaps when all this started if the CPSU had not decided to basically say "put the levy on higher paid public servants, not us" they might have got some more support!


  • Options
    #106
    Tommy T
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Tommy T


    Riskymove wrote: »
    Under ICTU rules Single Union strikes don't have the right to call on other Unions to strike

    perhaps when all this started if the CPSU had not decided to basically say "put the levy on higher paid public servants, not us" they might have got some more support!


    All CS unions are officially opposed to the Pension Levy but only the CPSU was willing to make a stand...


  • Options
    #107
    Chevy RV
    Registered Users Posts: 467 ✭✭Chevy RV


    Euro_Kraut wrote: »
    I disagree. Long and medium term economic statedgy should be the remit of the Government not some advisory group who were brought in to indentify savings. They would be completly over stepping their mark if they were to recommend something like this.

    The minimum wage debate is not really for here. Propably worth setting up a thread for it in itself because there is plently of contradictory economic literature out there that is worth pouring over to see if it can be applied to an Irish context.

    So my proposal: Back office Civil Servants put on a 4 day week for the next 12 to 18 months. We save 20% of the gross cost of the wage (prob 10% net) and they are effectivly required to produce 4 days work in 5. They benefit from getting an extra day off work and are more likely to accept that ahead of crude pay cuts.


    Is that not what they do anyway.? :D


  • Options
    #108
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Tommy T wrote: »
    All CS unions are officially opposed to the Pension Levy but only the CPSU was willing to make a stand...

    Some of the other unions have made public statements in favour of a reverse benchmarking- in lieu of the pension levy. Technically- the unions are against the levy- they are not united in their stand against wage cuts though.


  • Options
    #109
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    smccarrick wrote: »
    Some of the other unions have made public statements in favour of a reverse benchmarking- in lieu of the pension levy. Technically- the unions are against the levy- they are not united in their stand against wage cuts though.

    and some simply decided they did not want to strike in the current climate; not that they get much kudos for that


  • Options
    #110
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    Ridiculous that our senior doctors call 200k Mickey Mouse money and work as 'consultants' in our hospitals. Whats wrong with being employed at a reasonable rate? Same in other areas. Too many 'consultants' providing legal and financial services at 2 grand a day (or more). Politicians even at a lower level on too much money, too big a wage to begin with, drawing second wages, pensions, taking-the-piss expenses. All that I would do away with.

    Then of course the usual suspects. HSE, Social Welfare, Benchmarking, Introduce accountability in politics/public service. Let the banks go **** and take the defaulting developers to town.


  • Options
    #111
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    I was just thinking- our social welfare budget, alone, on current projections will be ~12% higher than projected tax receipts....... Eeek! :eek:


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #112
    Tommy T
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Tommy T


    smccarrick wrote: »
    Some of the other unions have made public statements in favour of a reverse benchmarking- in lieu of the pension levy. Technically- the unions are against the levy- they are not united in their stand against wage cuts though.


    Which Unions would they be then..?


  • Options
    #113
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Tommy T wrote: »
    All CS unions are officially opposed to the Pension Levy but only the CPSU was willing to make a stand...

    has it done much good for you?

    I was in the CPSU once and we had a strike...a half day stoppage...it was the most pointless, embarrassing action I ever experienced and did nothing for the cause. The CPSU on its own is never going to have the impact required to get anything out of a strike.

    the decisions to work to rule etc made much more of an impact

    they should be working with the other Unions and not alienating themselves


  • Options
    #114
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Riskymove wrote: »
    they should be working with the other Unions and not alienating themselves

    Have a read of general council minutes- the unions almost spend more time fighting with each other- than they do talking to management.......


  • Options
    #115
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    unions define themselves through intransigence , always have done


  • Options
    #116
    Tommy T
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Tommy T


    Riskymove wrote: »
    has it done much good for you?

    I was in the CPSU once and we had a strike...a half day stoppage...it was the most pointless, embarrassing action I ever experienced and did nothing for the cause. The CPSU on its own is never going to have the impact required to get anything out of a strike.

    the decisions to work to rule etc made much more of an impact

    they should be working with the other Unions and not alienating themselves

    Au contraire mon ami. After our one day action minister Lenihan announced that the levy could be re-aligned and was in a couple of weeks saving every civil Servant €500 per annum...


  • Options
    #117
    Tommy T
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Tommy T


    irish_bob wrote: »
    unions define themselves through intransigence , always have done

    We will not be walked all over and will protect our T&C's of employment to the hilt...


  • Options
    #118
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    Tommy T wrote: »
    We will not be walked all over and will protect our T&C's of employment to the hilt...

    indeed you will and the tax payer can eat cake


  • Options
    #119
    ChocolateSauce
    Registered Users Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ChocolateSauce


    I'd pay someone to take RTE off our hands, it would save money in the long run.


  • Options
    #120
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Tommy T wrote: »
    Au contraire mon ami. After our one day action minister Lenihan announced that the levy could be re-aligned and was in a couple of weeks saving every civil Servant €500 per annum...

    oh, of course that was due to your action alone....

    nothing to do with the fact that all the other unions were saying the same thing about the issues in the structure proposed


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #121
    Tommy T
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Tommy T


    Riskymove wrote: »
    oh, of course that was due to your action alone....

    nothing to do with the fact that all the other unions were saying the same thing about the issues in the structure proposed

    Our action was undoubtably the catalyst...


Advertisement