New clean energy bill

Spiritoftheseventies

Anyone understand this from new clean energy bill that Obama wants to put to the floor.

In H.R. 2454, industries are allowed to sell, exchange and auction off emission
allowances they could be granted or have already been granted.

sparklepants

It's a CO2 emissions "cap and trade" system, similar to what's currently in place in Ireland and in the rest of the EU. Basically, large industrial sites are given allowances to emit CO2 based on their historical on-site fossil fuel use. These allowances are tradeable. If a site needs to exceed its allowance it can buy credits on the carbon market.

Overheal

pretty much.

In essence what theyre doing is created a market out of thin, polluted air.

Seems like a headache tbh. They could be off doing something important. This Cap & Trade reminds me of 5 year olds trying to play with rules - it never ends well.

banquo

Seems acceptable to me, but I don't know all the ins and outs.

Arguments for and against?

Overheal

ive done no research, but For would be it creates a new marketplace. Commerce. bla bla. But the Con is business now potentially have additional expenses to worry about. Some of our most important industries, like refining, and mining, will be the hardest hit.

Spiritoftheseventies

is there a cap on the credits you are allowed to buy?

sparklepants

bayviewclose wrote: »

is there a cap on the credits you are allowed to buy?

No, at least not in the EU model. But the total number of credits is fixed. So as the credits become more scarce, the price of a credit starts to increase. Due to the economic downturn, many sites haven't used their allocation. So CO2 prices have been low of late with current prices around €12 a tonne and futures up to €15. This means there's less incentive to invest in co2 mitigation programmes and renewables.

derry

This whole process in the Congress was totally Orwellian and a weird form of democrasy vote a bill they never even read ????

First there was on thursday a 300 pages kill H.R. 2454 which had the basic bill .During the night the bill was changed to HR 2998 and a 1000 extra pages were added on. The Congress wasnt allowed access at any time to read the new bill.Then they swoped in another 300 pages and swoped out another 300 pages.Then the congress got at best one hour to read some of the bill I think maybe 300 pages of the newly added stuff.Then Congress voted and the vote was carried by 8 votes and those extra 8 votes were Republican as even many Democrats were not prepared to vote for this bill

Effectivily the bill HR 2998 has above it was said means that cap and trade on CO2 emmissions is a small part of the bill as it isnt called a cap and trade bill it is called the clean energy bill.

This allows a raft of other new concepts to be done at the same time as impossing a cap and trade .

Clean energy is interped very loosly as in CO2 is considered bassically as the bad guys and renewables are considered good guys even though many renewables today make more CO2 emmision than oil equivalents when all the CO2 emmision sums are added up so envioremntally this bill isnt looking to be a true enviorment bill but rather a trojan horse to allow a bucket load of money making scams to be given free reign under the umbrella of clean energy

The Obama army of climate cops can now be funded from the taxxes from CO2 emmisssion (climate cops are the new brainwashed Hitler youth of the USA) and these newwly apponted cops can call to your house or busness without a warrent and impose fines exceeding $2000 a day for example if your house has a older heating sytem or your house insulation isnt suffecient from thier point of view.From that even if your funds to pay for the repairs or replacement of this equipment is done speedily and the householder pays the fines the victims still remain vunerable to some other petty enviroment rules like they use too many hot baths as reported to the climate cops usualy from the kids in the household who have to write energy reports of the household they live in.This is straight out of the Hitler youth programs where reported political devience from the Hitler mantra meant children shopped thier parents .The final results are many households from arbitary fines that exceed thier abilty to pay may be handed over to the state and those houses will be reallocated to thier loyal climate cops for thier loyal dities in finding and fining these climate deviants that dare to make toxic CO2 fumes to heat thier houses

Here is the film that explains the process

Barack Obama Hitler youth comparison

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSWt7hOYYLY

Also the Bill HR 2998 signs the USA up to paying the UN taxxes on all CO2 emmisions so far a low tax of a few cents on a gallon of fuel but expected to ramp up rapily with the result the industry of the USA will migrate out to countries China and india who dont choose to pay the CO2 emmission taxxes

Also the owners of the the biggest cap and trade CO2 credit swop companies in Chicargo USA through which all USA CO2 purchases have to pass through is owned by AL Gore.

Each ton of CO2 credit bought for the USA will give his agency some few $ dollars of the total price and Al Gore and his share ownners BUSH OBAMA CHENEY RUMSFEILD will all gain gazzions of $dollars which should make up more profit than most of the listed name make presently from oil companies they own or controll

The bill might yet not pass through the Senate as the majority of bills that dont leave congress with a clear majority get rejected by the Senate. this is due to the Senate prefers to rubber stamp bills with a clear majority from the Congress.

Anyone who prefers to see a USA with a future would be crazy to hope the bill HR 2998 passes the Senate as all indications are if the bill passed and became law the USA economy would become toast .Also the UN would then take more control of the USA and impose the neo fachist agenda that...... Rockerfeller....... http://tinyurl.com/rzdlt .....and Maurice Strong .... http://tinyurl.com/b6u2yg....... the inventors of this suedo science CO2 AGW agenda wish to use to destroy the USA economy

For Europe and ROI its probably too late to stop the suedo science CO2 is gonna cook our goose and our economies are destined to to oblivion as we pay the UN and Al Gore and similar CO2 tax money to finance this new money making scam CO2 emmission and cap and trade

Derry

Spiritoftheseventies

guess we should be happy American govt is finally taken its responsibilities of climate change seriously

derry

bayviewclose wrote: »

guess we should be happy American govt is finally taken its responsibilities of climate change seriously

You should see what this site says the finacial windfall for the elitewith gGoldman sach leading the charge in the USA will occour from the carbon credit rip off scheme (best to read all the story)

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/7386/52/

macedoniaonline.eu wrote:

Fast-forward to today. It's early June in Washington, D.C. Barack Obama, a popular young politician whose leading private campaign donor was an investment bank called Goldman Sachs — its employees paid some $981,000 to his campaign — sits in the White House. Having seamlessly navigated the political minefield of the bailout era, Goldman is once again back to its old business, scouting out loopholes in a new government-created market with the aid of a new set of alumni occupying key government jobs.

Gone are Hank Paulson and Neel Kashkari; in their place are Treasury chief of staff Mark Patterson and CFTC chief Gary Gensler, both former Goldmanites. (Gensler was the firm's co-head of finance.) And instead of credit derivatives or oil futures or mortgage-backed CDOs, the new game in town, the next bubble, is in carbon credits — a booming trillion- dollar market that barely even exists yet, but will if the Democratic Party that it gave $4,452,585 to in the last election manages to push into existence a groundbreaking new commodities bubble, disguised as an "environmental plan," called cap-and-trade. The new carbon-credit market is a virtual repeat of the commodities-market casino that's been kind to Goldman, except it has one delicious new wrinkle: If the plan goes forward as expected, the rise in prices will be government-mandated. Goldman won't even have to rig the game. It will be rigged in advance.

Derry

Spiritoftheseventies

derry wrote: »

You should see what this site says the finacial windfall for the elitewith gGoldman sach leading the charge in the USA will occour from the carbon credit rip off scheme (best to read all the story)

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/7386/52/




Derry

Whats the democratic majority in terms of getting a vote through.