Tips for not getting screwed with a service..

40701085

I've a 20k mile service upcoming on a 2.2D, I know I'll need:

• oil change
• filter changes (oil, fuel)
• brake pads
• possible fan belt

I know that I won't need these & will be saying as much to the garage:

• new pollen filter
• new spark plugs
• wipers
• wiper fluids

Any other ways I can keep them honest? The one thing I worry about is them taking 4 hrs for a 2 hr service & whacking on the labour charges.

Any advice appreciated,

Cheers

bladespin

Are you very sure you don't need new spark plugs???

rocknchef

why not get a base price foe the basic service and labour and anything else they have to ring you first. thats what I do so I dont get any nasty shocks on my return.

Alun

bladespin wrote: »

Are you very sure you don't need new spark plugs???

Well not on a diesel he won't

Darsad

Cant imagine you would need brake pads at 20 K or a fuel filter for that matter your owners manual should list whats needs replacing at 20 K and i would not be surprised if the only thing required is the engine oil and filter !

Drummerboy08

Darsad wrote: »

Cant imagine you would need brake pads at 20 K or a fuel filter for that matter your owners manual should list whats needs replacing at 20 K and i would not be surprised if the only thing required is the engine oil and filter !

Depends on how hard he is on the brakes.

For a 20k service, i think your right. There is very little needed. Oil and filter, and a check on everything else. As its the first service (i presume) i'd suggest getting it into a main dealer for it to be hooked up to diagnostics too. Just to be safe.

Mr.Diagnostic

All manufacturers provide service schedules which list what the car needs. If you familiarise yourself with what is recommended you may be in a better position to judge what can be left out, or not, depending on your level of knowledge I suppose.
Its unlikely that anyone will be able to advise what your car needs without knowing the make, model, year and mileage.

One thing strikes me as odd. If you feel you need to keep the garage honest then why don’t you deal with a garage you can trust?

Darragh29

Mr.Diagnostic wrote: »

One thing strikes me as odd. If you feel you need to keep the garage honest then why don’t you deal with a garage you can trust?

Don't get me started!

OP why don't you do the work yourself, then you know that it has been done, and it isn't that difficult. What if the garage you take the car to decided to change the air filter, would you coisider that they were trying to screw you or would you politely accept that you forgot to include this component on your list above???

Mr.Diagnostic

Darragh29 wrote: »

Don't get me started!

If all cars started as reliably as you a lot of mechanics would be out of a job

Anan1

Mr.Diagnostic wrote: »

If all cars started as reliably as you a lot of mechanics would be out of a job

Captain Slow IRL

40701085 wrote: »

I've a 20k mile service upcoming on a 2.2D, I know I'll need:

• oil change
• filter changes (oil, fuel)
• brake pads
• possible fan belt
  ................................

Don't forget about air filter being a possibility. And why would a fan belt need replacing after only 20k miles?

Ring up the garage to find out the price of a service with the items you think it'll need. If the garage finds it needs anything else, you can instruct them to ring you with a price before fitting/fixing anything.

Hellrazer

You want to make sure youre not ripped off.

Couple of tips.

1.Agree on the price before you hand the keys over.
2.If anything else is needed--they call you before they fit anything.
3.Ask them to keep the old parts for you to inspect.
4.If possible mark your filters etc with UV marker.Then check the old parts they hand you back.

Might be a bit extreme but if every main dealer offered the above the whole "main dealers are rip off merchants" mentality might stop.

-Chris-

I wonder why you think you'd need a fan belt at 20k, but don't want/need your wipers replaced or fluids topped up.
Also, how old is your car? Brake fluid would need to be done at 2 years.

As others have said, look in your manuals - the service schedule will detail exactly what needs doing.
If it's just a 20k service and no additional work/diagnostics need doing, the garage should be able to quote you a "menu" price for the work.
To keep a supplier honest, ring 2 other suppliers whose work is of similar quality and then pick the cheapest of the three.

Tropheus

Go to a recommended independent. Stay clear of main dealers as they are experts at piling it on. Charging for washer fluid really pi$$es me off!

martinr5232

ksimpson wrote: »

Go to a recommended independent. Stay clear of main dealers as they are experts at piling it on. Charging for washer fluid really pi$$es me off!

Why do you know somewhere to get washer additives for nothing ?

Delta Kilo

I know somebody that got charged for the rubber gloves the mechanic was wearing doing the service! It was down as:

Miscellaneous: €1.00

When she asked the mechanic told her straight up, its for the rubber gloves and soap to wash his hands and arms afterwards! Got to admire the honesty!

I recommend putting tipp-ex or scratching the oil filter, at least you know you changed it then but I second someone elses advice to do it yourself!

Anan1

martinr5232 wrote: »

Why do you know somewhere to get washer additives for nothing ?

To be fair, i've often seen attempts to charge for filling a washer bottle that was already full.

40701085

Thanks for all the feedback folks,

Just to fill in the picture a bit more - there are over 40k miles on clock, I haven't had a dealer's service since 20k miles (but I have been changing the oil+filter every 10k, either myself or local mechanic).

So by now I think the pads & fanbelt would be worth a look. Spark plugs I can do myself. And I just wanted to bring it to the dealer for the diagnostics & a comprehensive once-over.

I had called a couple of places to get a ball-park quote for standard work alright, but was worried about a mechanic calling up during the service & saying, "you need a new x, y or z" - how do I know it's needed-I'm not great under the bonnet?
Good idea re marking the parts/filters tho & simply reading the manual! I will do that before dropping it off.

Thanks again everyone

Mr. darragh

another one of these threads
i want an expert to look at my car and tell me what needs to be repaired



but if he finds any faults i no longer consider him an expert becausehe is trying to rip me off.

:mad:

40701085

another one of these threads
i want an expert to look at my car and tell me what needs to be repaired



but if he finds any faults i no longer consider him an expert becausehe is trying to rip me off.

And I suppose every cash-strapped dealership wears a halo?

I opened this thread for useful advice, not to bitch. If you're a mechanic Mr. Darragh just try to accept there is an element of bad practice in every industry.

-Chris-

40701085 wrote: »

(but I have been changing the oil+filter every 10k, either myself or local mechanic).

Do you trust this mechanic?

40701085 wrote: »

So by now I think the pads & fanbelt would be worth a look.

Why not get your mechanic to do this too? It hardly needs specialised equipment.

40701085 wrote: »

Spark plugs I can do myself.

As above, no you can't - no spark plugs in your car.
If you're not competent to this level, definitely stop servicing your own car (or hit the books hard).

40701085 wrote: »

And I just wanted to bring it to the dealer for the diagnostics & a comprehensive once-over.

Other than the diagnostics, your mechanic will be able to do this.
You can pay the dealer for one hour of labour to do the diagnostics check, then bring the report to your mechanic.

40701085 wrote: »

I had called a couple of places to get a ball-park quote for standard work alright, but was worried about a mechanic calling up during the service & saying, "you need a new x, y or z" - how do I know it's needed-I'm not great under the bonnet?

How do you know your indy mechanic won't do the same?

40701085 wrote: »

Good idea re marking the parts/filters tho & simply reading the manual! I will do that before dropping it off.

If you don't trust someone to the level where you're marking parts, don't use them.

40701085 wrote: »

Thanks again everyone

Darragh29

40701085 wrote: »

And I suppose every cash-strapped dealership wears a halo?

I opened this thread for useful advice, not to bitch. If you're a mechanic Mr. Darragh just try to accept there is an element of bad practice in every industry.

OP, there is nothing worse than a customer who comes to you telling you how to service their car. I'm not trying to rise you here, but what's the story with changing the alternator pulley belt??? If it isn't causing a problem, then unless it is a component that is scheduled to be replaced at a certain interval, then you leave it alone. Same goes for brake pads, you don't make a decision on replacing them until a mechanic has advised you to replace them, or until you have inspected the pads yourself. Insisting that they be changed without having examined the pads is just screwing yourself, no need for a mechanic to do it for you, and same goes for replacing alternator pulley belts for no reason!

I'm all for solving problems pre-emptively but you have to draw a line somewhere.

40701085

Hi Chris,
Yes I trust the mechanic but thought the dealer's equipment would be more specialised (e.g. diagnostics) and thought it as handy to get all jobs done there for convenience. Didn't know you could take the diagnostics report away with you - thanks.
And yes, I am poor with cars - which is 1 good reason to start learning

Darragh29

-Chris- wrote: »

If you don't trust someone to the level where you're marking parts, don't use them.

+1. There is also this myth when it comes to "diagnostics" that the OP has brought up here. When you bring your car to a main dealer, the only "diagnostics" that is done is usually the engine fault light is observed when the engine is started, if the light illuminates before starting and goes out after starting, then that's your diagnostics done! Same goes for SRS and ABS systems. Obviously if the engine warning light or another system warning light stays on, then you might have a problem but any indy garage with the minimal of diagnostic equipment and training can investigate and resolve this issue for you. The idea that you get some kind of black art "diagnostic" done by a main dealer when you bring your car in for a routine service is just absolute nonsense.

Hellrazer

-Chris- wrote: »

If you don't trust someone to the level where you're marking parts, don't use them.

Just wanted to reply to the above comment.
Lately Im noticing that theres this mentality that anytime someone gets a car serviced,diagnosed,body work etc that theyre being ripped off.If everyone marked their parts and/or asked for the old parts back the whole main dealer rip off mentality would disappear overnight mainly because the dealers who are ripping people off would stop doing it for fear off being caught/sued etc.

Asking for old parts back and / or marking the parts on the car before a service is a lot more common in other countries than it is here. As a matter of fact Ive been at service training courses where Ive been told that its the norm in other countries to offer the customer the old parts for inspection before they leave the premises.

I dont think its about "trust" so much since most people dont trust any garage with their car and believe that they are being ripped off even before they walk in the door and hand the keys over.

Long Onion

Hellrazer wrote: »

Just wanted to reply to the above comment.
Lately Im noticing that theres this mentality that anytime someone gets a car serviced,diagnosed,body work etc that theyre being ripped off.If everyone marked their parts and/or asked for the old parts back the whole main dealer rip off mentality would disappear overnight mainly because the dealers who are ripping people off would stop doing it for fear off being caught/sued etc.

Asking for old parts back and / or marking the parts on the car before a service is a lot more common in other countries than it is here. As a matter of fact Ive been at service training courses where Ive been told that its the norm in other countries to offer the customer the old parts for inspection before they leave the premises.

I dont think its about "trust" so much since most people dont trust any garage with their car and believe that they are being ripped off even before they walk in the door and hand the keys over.

It's true and i don't think the country is suffering from a form of spontaneous collective paranoia - the fact is that a large majority of people feel that they are being ripped off. My mother in law had an issue with a car she bought from a dealership in sligo that was out of warranty, she called her local mechanic (whom, by the way, she does trust) he couldn't dignose the fault as he is old school and doesn't have the right equipment, he had the car towed to the main dealers in castlebar.

They called and said it was "x" and would be €1300 to fix. My wife had bought her car from the sligo garage and called them and said that even though it was out of warranty, they should reward loyalty - they agreed to look after the car and reduce the bill.

My mother in law had to pay the castlebar dealer €230 for diagnosing the problem and had the car towed to the sligo dealer (a freebie from the insurance co.) when it got there, it transpired that it wasn't "x" at all, it was "y" and was fixed for €160.

the moral of the story is that some people have very good reasons to believe that they are being ripped off

Mr. darragh

I always keep old parts until the bill is sorted.
usually talk the customer through what work has been done and why.
Sometimes it takes longer to explain the work carried out than to do the work in the first place.
Its all about communication

-Chris-

Long Onion wrote: »

It's true and i don't think the country is suffering from a form of spontaneous collective paranoia - the fact is that a large majority of people feel that they are being ripped off. My mother in law had an issue with a car she bought from a dealership in sligo that was out of warranty, she called her local mechanic (whom, by the way, she does trust) he couldn't dignose the fault as he is old school and doesn't have the right equipment, he had the car towed to the main dealers in castlebar.

They called and said it was "x" and would be €1300 to fix. My wife had bought her car from the sligo garage and called them and said that even though it was out of warranty, they should reward loyalty - they agreed to look after the car and reduce the bill.

My mother in law had to pay the castlebar dealer €230 for diagnosing the problem and had the car towed to the sligo dealer (a freebie from the insurance co.) when it got there, it transpired that it wasn't "x" at all, it was "y" and was fixed for €160.

the moral of the story is that some people have very good reasons to believe that they are being ripped off

I'm sorry, I don't understand how she was ripped off in this instance...

Hellrazer

-Chris- wrote: »

I'm sorry, I don't understand how she was ripped off in this instance...

I dont get it either!!

Long Onion

-Chris- wrote: »

I'm sorry, I don't understand how she was ripped off in this instance...

she was charged €230 for the dealer to tell her that the injection computer was gone and if she had proceeded she would have been charged €1300 for something that wasn't gone in the first place.

she is still after paying €230 for an incorrect diagnosis

faceman

Anan1 wrote: »

To be fair, i've often seen attempts to charge for filling a washer bottle that was already full.

I had that tried on me by a main dealer.

Leprechaun77

This mentality of 'getting screwed on the car service' has not come out of thin air. There is a strong basis for this point of view, as a lot of Main Dealers are involved. I'm sure there are garages who are ultra professional and work to the highest standards, but unfortunately there are a significant amount who don't.

The wife got her car serviced last year from a Main Dealer and the invoice had a description of the work carried out. On this it was stated that the usual inspections were carried out, brakes, fluid levels, lights etc. We were charged for washer fluid, even though I had topped the car up that morning coming back up from the country. ( the spray remained just water, so no additives were added I presume). Also, the high beam had not been working and was not replaced or even noticed in this service. These small things will inevitably sow the seed of doubt in the customers mind as to the quality of the rest of the service.

mickdw

-Chris- wrote: »

I'm sorry, I don't understand how she was ripped off in this instance...

What?

1300 quote for repair & 200+ for diagnostic when real cost was 160!

Honest mistake? I dont know.

Darragh29

Leprechaun77 wrote: »

This mentality of 'getting screwed on the car service' has not come out of thin air. There is a strong basis for this point of view, as a lot of Main Dealers are involved. I'm sure there are garages who are ultra professional and work to the highest standards, but unfortunately there are a significant amount who don't.

The wife got her car serviced last year from a Main Dealer and the invoice had a description of the work carried out. On this it was stated that the usual inspections were carried out, brakes, fluid levels, lights etc. We were charged for washer fluid, even though I had topped the car up that morning coming back up from the country. ( the spray remained just water, so no additives were added I presume). Also, the high beam had not been working and was not replaced or even noticed in this service. These small things will inevitably sow the seed of doubt in the customers mind as to the quality of the rest of the service.

Couldn't agree more, it's the small things that cause the doubt. You naturally think that if you can cop the small things that haven't been done right, then how can the more complicated things that you are not in a position to check, have possibly been done right as well???

-Chris-

Long Onion wrote: »

she was charged €230 for the dealer to tell her that the injection computer was gone and if she had proceeded she would have been charged €1300 for something that wasn't gone in the first place.

she is still after paying €230 for an incorrect diagnosis

But I wouldn't say that's a rip-off, I'd say that's incompetence!

If she had left the car with them, they'd have done the €1,300 fix and then found that the problems persisted.
She'd have refused to pay, and they'd have learned an expensive lesson.

Instead she brought it to the supplying dealer (who said they'd charge for it, but for a reduced rate) who had better mechanics and therefore diagnosed it correctly.

In the meantime the original dealer never knew their diagnosis was incorrect because they didn't get to follow through with the repair, so they charged for their diagnosis time.
I'd think your mum-in-law should be asking for a refund of this €230 because the diagnosis was incorrect.


By the way, her local mechanic couldn't diagnose the problem either, so it couldn't have been that simple of a problem.
Also, he had it transported to the Castlebar dealer even though the insurance company would have done it for free.

mickdw wrote: »

What?

1300 quote for repair & 200+ for diagnostic when real cost was 160!

Honest mistake? I dont know.

I don't think it was an honest mistake, I think it was some sort of diagnostic incompetence.

I do think, however, that there's a big distance between "incompetence" and some sort of Machiavellian rip-off tactic that's a clear indicator of systematic dishonesty throughout the industry.

Mr.Diagnostic

-Chris- wrote: »

But I wouldn't say that's a rip-off, I'd say that's incompetence!



I don't think it was an honest mistake, I think it was some sort of diagnostic incompetence.

I do think, however, that there's a big distance between "incompetence" and some sort of Machiavellian rip-off tactic that's a clear indicator of systematic dishonesty throughout the industry.

Very true.

But, unfortunately the incompetence part is all too common.



The point you made that the first dealer would have found out they were wrong and so not been able to charge is a little on the ideal side of reality. What normally happens is they charge anyway and claim there is more than one fault.
It never ceases to amaze mw how many single faults are caused by multiple faulty parts

-Chris-

Mr.Diagnostic wrote: »

The point you made that the first dealer would have found out they were wrong and so not been able to charge is a little on the ideal side of reality. What normally happens is they charge anyway and claim there is more than one fault.

It's on the ideal side, but it should be on the regular side - Irish people should be much better at complaining and refusing to pay.

Unfortunately the underneath of a bonnet is a big black-hole of knowledge for most people, so they're afraid to question the word of the "experts".
I'd say you'll find the same any other industry - call out an IT guy to set up a printer on your network, odds are it's a matter of installing a driver or clicking a few buttons to set up a network printer, but they'll charge you like it's heart surgery.

People do loads of research before buying a house or take a night course after getting a gift of a good camera.
I can never figure out why people don't take the time to do a course in car maintenance in the local VEC.

How many people don't know how to change a tyre? How many people rely on the kindness of strangers if the oil light comes on in their car.
The car is a major part of their life, yet they don't know enough to know if the internal discombobulator is a real car part...


I'm getting a little OT - it's not the OP's mother-in-law's fault that the Castlebar dealer didn't know what they were doing, but it wouldn't hurt to be able to challenge them on their opinions once in a while.

Mr.Diagnostic

-Chris- wrote: »

I can never figure out why people don't take the time to do a course in car maintenance in the local VEC.

.

I dont think that would help as the subject is too complex however its up to the customer to change, the motor trade needs to get its act together.

Darragh29

-Chris- wrote: »

I can never figure out why people don't take the time to do a course in car maintenance in the local VEC.

Watch this space my friend! :D:D

-Chris-

Mr.Diagnostic wrote: »

I dont think that would help as the subject is too complex however its up to the customer to change, the motor trade needs to get its act together.

Absolutely the motor trade needs a massive shake up, but the customer should make themselves informed too.

How many threads do we see here that ask "I'm about to buy a car, what should I be looking for?".
The basics are easy to learn and would equip people so much better when they're spending their €hundreds/thousands.

pred racer

-Chris- wrote: »

It's on the ideal side, but it should be on the regular side - Irish people should be much better at complaining and refusing to pay.

Cris, this advice is no good if they wont give you your car back coz you didnt pay.


OP, find a garage that you do trust, it may take a while but if you find one where you are treated correctly, stick with them. If you feel you are getting ripped off, find a different garage! they are not scarce.

Johnboy Mac

-Chris- wrote: »

But I wouldn't say that's a rip-off, I'd say that's incompetence!

Some would see incompetence as being short changed and being short changed is viewed by most as being ripped off.

allthedoyles

At the moment , Renault are advertising a full service for € 179.

However , I bet you will find ,that when you go back for your car that they will have found many 'extras ' that needed attention , and final bill will be much more .

Its not just Renault , in my opinion , all garages find extra adjustments that are needed during a service .