Review of operation and rules of forum - your opinions wanted!

LuckyLloyd

We've been discussing the way the forum operated last season and how we might be able to improve things for the coming year. We've come up with some ideas, agreed some and disagreed some. Before we start making any hard and fast decisions we are interested in hearing what you guys have to say on pretty much anything to do with the forum and how it is run. We can't promise to take every idea on board of course, but we promise to listen.

Part of the function of this thread is as a space for you to discuss the way the forum is moderated, but not the individual moderators. If you have a problem with decisions that have been made in the past then address that in relation to the current rules, not in relation to the moderator who had to implement them.

Feel free to elaborate upon and discuss anything posted in here.

Okay, go!

mayordenis

Can't remember has the idea of "superthread" forum been mooted?

Headshot

bring back sponsorship or at least increase post count for access to the SF

nearly forgot a mod who supports man utd would be handy too

LuckyLloyd

Headshot wrote: »

nearly forgot a mod who supports man utd would be handy too

Why do you think its necessary?

Headshot

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Why do you think its necessary?

3 pool fans and 1 city fan

it be nice to have a utd fan as a mod

mayordenis

I think we can't go about getting mods based on the teams they support - anyway again luklylloyd about the superthread - right now on the frontpage there are 10 - last night there were way more
the soccer forum is now mostly a mish mash of certain team threads - maybe I'm the only who thinks this maybe not,
I think it would allow for more debate on topics outside the norm though.

mike65

Now now! A mod has no favourites. Or not that I've noticed.

I would ask the mods to relax the issue of whats considered personal abuse of a player/manager/owner/ref/agent/pundit. Sometimes they really ask for both barrels and it would be nice to give it to them every once in a while.

mormank

is that some sort of political correctness gone mad there headshot!! perhaps it just shows the level of utd fan on here...i cant think of a single UTD fan you could put forward as mod!!

my main concern would be posting scores in unrelated threads, even games that are already finished as people will want to watch delayed coverage sometimes for whatever reason.

JPA

mayordenis wrote: »

I think we can't go about getting mods based on the teams they support - anyway again luklylloyd about the superthread - right now on the frontpage there are 10 - last night there were way more
the soccer forum is now mostly a mish mash of certain team threads - maybe I'm the only who thinks this maybe not,
I think it would allow for more debate on topics outside the norm though.

I could see the soccer forum die if it was split up.
At least the superthreads bring people in and they may comment on other threads that catch their eye.

Headshot

mormank wrote: »

is that some sort of political correctness gone mad there headshot!! perhaps it just shows the level of utd fan on here...i cant think of a single UTD fan you could put forward as mod!!

.

actually if you did some homework before posting you'd see when they picked LL and tro as mods there were some utd fans who wanted to be mod too

LuckyLloyd

Headshot wrote: »

3 pool fans and 1 city fan

it be nice to have a utd fan as a mod

Okay, I understand that you think it would be "nice". But you need to explain to me why you think its necessary, and how the lack of one is creating inefficiencies in the way the forum is run. Cheers.

invincibleirish

Surely the time has come for the frequently updated super threads to evolve into their own seperate forums? might help to filter out those who just want to talk about their club against those who want to talk 'soccer' generally.

mayordenis

JPA wrote: »

I could see the soccer forum die if it was split up.
At least the superthreads bring people in and they may comment on other threads that catch their eye.

the soccer forum simply will never die.

ShaneU

It really shouldn't matter what team a mod supports, they should all (in theory) be impartial.

Headshot

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Okay, I understand that you think it would be "nice". But you need to explain to me why you think its necessary, and how the lack of one is creating inefficiencies in the way the forum is run. Cheers.

like the example would be the utd super thread

hardly any mods post in it since their liverpool fans and if there was a utd mod they'd beable to keep an eye on it more often

Kinetic^

Headshot wrote: »

nearly forgot a mod who supports man utd would be handy too

:rolleyes: .....because they're picked based on what team they support, how idiotic.

edit: so we should have a mod from Villa/Arsenal etc?

Headshot

actually if you look at my previous post,it would explain it all

Warper

Definitely have a super-thread where you can post anything in relation to soccer rather than having to open up a new thread.

General gambling talk should be permitted as well like the odds on a match or whatever you fancy betting-wise. The problem with the Gambling forum is no-one looks at it. Something like a bets for the weekend thread on selections should be allowed on the soccer forum as long as it relates to soccer.

Maybe we could have a few general threads as well as a superthread eg. - Premier League, La Liga, Serie A, Champions League etc. where you can post anything in relation to that particular league. The recent Confed Cup thread worked well.

Kinetic^

If a mod doesn't post in the thread, that doesn't mean they don't read it. It's not nessecary for a moderator to post in every thread.

Kinetic^

Headshot wrote: »

actually if you look at my previous post,it would explain it all

Kinetic^ wrote: »

edit: so we should have a mod from Villa/Arsenal etc?

.

pfffft :rolleyes:

PiE

Headshot wrote: »

hardly any mods post in it since their liverpool fans and if there was a utd mod they'd beable to keep an eye on it more often

mormank wrote: »

i cant think of a single UTD fan you could put forward as mod!!

Both good points.

I'm with Mike65 on the abuse thing - sure libel is a worry and all, but the rules on "player abuse" have been OTT for a while now.

Headshot

Kinetic^ wrote: »

If a mod doesn't post in the thread, that doesn't mean they don't read it. It's not nessecary for a moderator to post in every thread.

actually if you read the utd thread you'd know there's been some trolling

Gavin "shels"

Headshot wrote: »

bring back sponsorship or at least increase post count for access to the SF

nearly forgot a mod who supports man utd would be handy too

Headshot wrote: »

3 pool fans and 1 city fan

it be nice to have a utd fan as a mod

Sure if that's the logic we may aswell have a mod for every team that's talked about on this forum!?

Headshot

Kinetic^ wrote: »

.

pfffft :rolleyes:

not disrespect to other teams but the biggest threads on the sf are the utd and pool

it wouldnt make that since to supervise the the arsenal and villa threads

Mr.Nice Guy

I too would also be in favour of a moderator that was a United fan. Not because mods should be based on the team they support, but so that there could be a bit of consistency towards how teams are treated on the fourm.

Case in point, one thread that really disappointed me on the board this year was the "Ferguson vs Benitez" thread which to me was nothing but an excuse for fans to gang up and make insulting comments, mainly against Ferguson. This to me was nothing but a way to rile up United fans.

I objected to this on the thread in question asking why this was allowed and was abruptly told by a mod that it was allowed because he felt it should be.

Now according to the charter, provocation is an offence so why was this acceptable? Most United fans I recall were disappointed with the situation and there were no United moderators who could add their two cents on the matter. I'd like a bit more clarity on what constitutes provocation/trolling, incitement etc. and what is simply regarded as a bit of banter.

(I would like to point out that overall I think the board has been moderated well for what I'd regard as one of the toughest to watch out for on the site)

ShoulderChip

Be more lenient when someone posts a new thread, that he/she could have posted in a superthread, sometimes its nice to get a wider view.

Ban people from commenting "pointless thread", if a thread is pointless it will die out a lot sooner without people queuing up to belittle it.

mike65

Warper wrote: »

Something like a bets for the weekend thread on selections should be allowed on the soccer forum as long as it relates to soccer.

Maybe we could have a few general threads as well as a superthread eg. - Premier League, La Liga, Serie A, Champions League etc. where you can post anything in relation to that particular league. The recent Confed Cup thread worked well.

+1 to the above, a footie gambling sticky would be lively. The league threads have exisited but they tend to be fitful and often poorly subscribed to, a bit of work from the regulars could fix that I'm sure

GuanYin

A team the mod supports is not and will never be a factor in selecting a soccer mod.

If there is any question about their ability to mod without team bias, they won't be considered for soccer mod, in fact, the ability of a user to post without bias towards their team is one of the things that stands out for me as soccer mod potential.

Kinetic^

Headshot wrote: »

actually if you read the utd thread you'd know there's been some trolling

The report post button is there for a reason and I say again, just because they don't post doesn't mean they don't read it.

Headshot

Kinetic^ wrote: »

The report post button is there for a reason and I say again, just because they don't post doesn't mean they don't read it.

but I find if the mod posts in a thread, users wont cause trouble in the 1st place

_blank_

The amount of muppets in this forum has grown and grown since the sponsorship thing went out the window. I can see the problems with this, and the fact that people new to Boards.ie may not ever get sponsored.

So here's what I propose.

Keep the 50 Posts + 6(3?) Months rule in place.

But.

Add to that a further rule that if, within your first three months, you get a single Yellow Card Infraction, then you are subject to the current 6 Month Ban for other users who have racked up 6 Yellow Cards/Three Red Cards, or whatever that is. Extend that to within the next three months, if you receive a Straight Red Card Infraction, or rack up Three Yellow Cards, you are also subject to a 6 Month Ban.

This gives people a 6 Month "Bedding In Period" where they can be weeded out if they are actual trolls, and also, people can get to know them, learn their posting style and how to take them.

Also, I'd like to see a system whereby a user is informed by the mods once their Yellow Cards have expired.

---

I'd also like to see mention of scores of other games in specific match threads to become an instant two week bannable offence. It's idiotic, and there's no need for it. Especially on Champions League Nights, someone could be watching a Liverpool Match and following the match thread, when some cretin comes in and gives the score of the Milan game, which is on another TV Program later. Some clown thinking he's funny.

---

More protection for the LoI please.

Still people are getting away with sly digs and subtle trolling. The mods don't care and only react when posts are reported, if even. Now, mods, you may say that isn't the case. But it IS the perception. And perception is 90% the reality. In any LoI thread you are almost guaranteed some funny arsehole coming in and saying something like "yeah well, it's a crap league anyway" or something along those line. It may have been funny the first fifty times it was said, but it get old fast.

For example, if every couple of weeks or so an LoI fan posted in the Manchester United or Liverpool Threads they'd be yellow carded and banned eventually. There is nothing like the protectionism that goes for the EPL teams.

Also. Whenever a known LoI person makes any disparaging comment about English football, the usual retort is "Yeah well you're only saying that because you are an LoI fan". THIS is what drags the majority of topics that go down that road, down that road. NOT LoI Soapboxing. I think LoI fans, in the main, have given up on the soapboxing, and all that's left is idiots who won't engage in proper debate, and just drag the thread down.

---

How long is this thread going to run for, and will the mods give Feedback to us after the process has reached it's halfway point?

Assuming, that is, that the halfway point is when the Mods go back to discuss the ideas in here and try to come to some conclusions.

I assume this thread has a shelf life?

LuckyLloyd

Des wrote: »

And perception is 90% the reality.

lol, if there was ever a throwaway phrase I disagree with it is that one.

Des wrote: »

How long is this thread going to run for, and will the mods give Feedback to us after the process has reached it's halfway point?

Assuming, that is, that the halfway point is when the Mods go back to discuss the ideas in here and try to come to some conclusions.

I assume this thread has a shelf life?

We want to finish everything within four weeks. We will need to discuss ideas put forward here amongst ourselves, and will be back with feedback when we are able to reach consensus on the issues. If it takes longer, it takes longer. The thread will remain here so long as it remains useful and constructive.

Headshot

Warper wrote: »

General gambling talk should be permitted as well like the odds on a match or whatever you fancy betting-wise. The problem with the Gambling forum is no-one looks at it. Something like a bets for the weekend thread on selections should be allowed on the soccer forum as long as it relates to soccer.

l.

missed this post

1+ for that ^^^

joe123

Relax the rules on giving personal opinions on players. For example I commented on Joey Barton during the season stating what pretty much everyone thinks and I got a ban for it.

A forum is giving opinions yet still were not allowed?

Holsten

I'd like to be able to call certain players what they actually are without getting banned.

Bounty Hunter

dunno if anyone would agree with these but the 3 changes i would like to see implemented would be:

1) Soccer odds superthread formed

2) match discussion allowed in Superthreads

3) some sort of sponsorship may be needed again, perhaps 50 posts plus 2 sponsors

thats is all for me and tbh i think the forum gets much unwarranted criticism from time to time it aint that bad

SectionF

Des wrote: »

More protection for the LoI please.

Still people are getting away with sly digs and subtle trolling. The mods don't care and only react when posts are reported, if even. Now, mods, you may say that isn't the case. But it IS the perception. And perception is 90% the reality. In any LoI thread you are almost guaranteed some funny arsehole coming in and saying something like "yeah well, it's a crap league anyway" or something along those line. It may have been funny the first fifty times it was said, but it get old fast.

For example, if every couple of weeks or so an LoI fan posted in the Manchester United or Liverpool Threads they'd be yellow carded and banned eventually. There is nothing like the protectionism that goes for the EPL teams.

Also. Whenever a known LoI person makes any disparaging comment about English football, the usual retort is "Yeah well you're only saying that because you are an LoI fan". THIS is what drags the majority of topics that go down that road, down that road. NOT LoI Soapboxing. I think LoI fans, in the main, have given up on the soapboxing, and all that's left is idiots who won't engage in proper debate, and just drag the thread down.

+1, QFT, and abso-bloody-lutely.

It's seldom that I can say this of a post by Des, but I agree with each and every word. The disparity in tolerance towards attacks on LoI v the squeamishness of ManU etc. fans is glaring and is probably the most objectively observable bias on the board.

LoI fans are pilloried for offering any scepticism towards EPL clubs, while it seems perfectly ok for blatant ignorance towards Irish football.

I also agree with the earlier post about people whinging that threads are irrelevant or boring. If they are, they will die naturally. There should be a special punishment reserved for those who actively suggest locking a thread on these grounds.

Headshot

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

dunno if anyone would agree with these but the 3 changes i would like to see implemented would be:

1) Soccer odds superthread formed

2) match discussion allowed in Superthreads

3) some sort of sponsorship may be needed again, perhaps 50 posts plus 2 sponsors

thats is all for me and tbh i think the forum gets much unwarranted criticism from time to time it aint that bad

there's a rule against it but it's not enforced,rightly so imo but still rules are rules
but id agree with points 1,2,3

carlop

I'd second the Utd mod idea. I think its stupid to appoint mods on who they support and I don't really find it has any effect when it comes to their moderation.

However, there will always be some posters who will think their team is being victimised against. I personally think its quite a retarded notion, but if you have a token Man Utd mod, it removes these people's ammunition to say 'all the mods are scousers and hate Man United'

Others will say 'Why not have a Villa/Arsenal/Shels etc. mod', but like it or not United and Liverpool dominate this thread and most football discussion in Ireland.

Marx said religion was the opium of the people. A Manchester United- supporting mod will be the opium of the Manchester United fans on boards:D

Edit: When I say United and Liverpool dominate discussion, I mean that they have the biggest number of fans on the forum, and therefore the biggest number of muppet fans on the forum who will cause trouble. Having a mod who supports their team might make them less likely to engage in muppetry.

ctrl-alt-delete

Des wrote: »

---

More protection for the LoI please.

Still people are getting away with sly digs and subtle trolling. The mods don't care and only react when posts are reported, if even. Now, mods, you may say that isn't the case. But it IS the perception. And perception is 90% the reality. In any LoI thread you are almost guaranteed some funny arsehole coming in and saying something like "yeah well, it's a crap league anyway" or something along those line. It may have been funny the first fifty times it was said, but it get old fast.

For example, if every couple of weeks or so an LoI fan posted in the Manchester United or Liverpool Threads they'd be yellow carded and banned eventually. There is nothing like the protectionism that goes for the EPL teams.

Also. Whenever a known LoI person makes any disparaging comment about English football, the usual retort is "Yeah well you're only saying that because you are an LoI fan". THIS is what drags the majority of topics that go down that road, down that road. NOT LoI Soapboxing. I think LoI fans, in the main, have given up on the soapboxing, and all that's left is idiots who won't engage in proper debate, and just drag the thread down.

I agree with what you have said above the bit i have quoted,

However, i think the Loi V English Football debate is always a 2 way thing. You mention people getting away with sly digs etc, but this happens with Loi fans too - one or two in particular take every chance they can get to take a sly dig.

The whole real fan real football thing is a pain when it gets going.

Is it not possible to have a sub-forum for the Loi? with their own Mod (maybe even yourself).

I know Loi fans will probably say it takes the emphasis away from the Loi and immediately demeans the Loi, but surely for the most part it will keep people who have only an interest in only 1 of the 2 away from each other?

Bounty Hunter

Headshot wrote: »

there's a rule against it but it's not enforced,rightly so imo but still rules are rules
but id agree the with point 1,2,3

well thats what i mean remove the rule and just allow it as you say there is often a blind eye turned anyway cos maybe even some mods agree.

I think a soccer odds superthread would work perfectly too, keep it all in one place and stop threads having to be moved/deleted that many in this forum might have an interest in and who knows maybe help us make some money :cool:

invincibleirish

Its not an LoI v EPL argument per se rather its the attitudes of some who are quick to deride the plastics and the 'English' in general and then get all high and mighty when called on it. I enjoy the jousting with the LoI militants as well the contributions of the rather more sound LoI fans on the SF, long may it continue.

IvySlayer

I just wish the arrogance and pride of certain supporters would get a seeing too.

I can cite examples of Utd fans discussing Utd tactics and some people coming into threads 'United bought the league, ah sure they get all ref decision, clubs bow down to united and let them win'. And Liverpool discussions turning into anti-rafa brigades...

It infuriates me to no end and has no place in a Soccer forum.

I am a Manchester United and Shamrock Rovers fan. I wish any snide remarks about the EPL (not true fans etc etc) and the LoI (mickey mouse league) to be banned.

I don't support the idea of appointing a mod purely because a large majority of posters support the same club. I don't think any mod here has a anti-utd stance.

This subforum ain't too shabby

Dub13

mayordenis wrote: »

anyway again luklylloyd about the superthread - right now on the frontpage there are 10 - last night there were way more
the soccer forum is now mostly a mish mash of certain team threads - maybe I'm the only who thinks this maybe not,
I think it would allow for more debate on topics outside the norm though.

On the forum been all over the place here is a post I put up in the mod forum a couple of weeks ago.I will post it here to see what you lot think.

I personally think we need to revisit the idea of having some sub forums,not team sub forums or even ones for particular league's.If you look at the other 2 forums around the same size as Soccer Motors & Poker they have a few sub forums,I think the soccer forum is way to big to be condensed into one forum.And this will only get worse as the wider Boards community gets bigger and then as a knock on effect the soccer forum gets bigger.

To be honest I don't even know what kind of sub forums we could have but from the top of my head here are a couple of suggestions...

A Newspaper/Internet Articles Sub forum,a place were users can post up any good articles they find or even longer posts they make themselves,this would allow for more substantial debate and good threads would last longer and not be over ran with the normal soccer forum threads.

A forum for all the Match day threads,this works well on my site and and again frees up the main forum.

Maybe a International Football sub forum.

I am just thinking out loud here and have not really taught this through,but one thing I am certain of we have out grown the concept of having the whole soccer community on boards condensed into one forum.

Morzadec

Holsten wrote: »

I'd like to be able to call certain players what they actually are without getting banned.

To be honest I think the no player/manager abuse rule is a good one. The good thing about this forum is that moderators do their best in stopping threads descending into pure tit-for-tat insults between rival fans. It can be bad enough as it is, removing the insult rule would make things a bit chaotic, and there would be less discussion and instead more sniping.

Sure there was times last year when I would've liked to say a few things about Ronaldo, but if a United fan came on and called gerrard a scouse cnut, what does that really contribute? Its just going to rile people up.

Whether insulting a player is justified or not, it is pretty much trolling cos its going to piss people off. Like it would be my opinion and many others that saying some stuff about Ronny is justifiable, but it would clearly rile United fans. Everyone has different opinions and bias based on team allegiances, so I think it would be better to keep the no insulting rule in place, otherwise mods will have to start making judgement calls on what constitutes acceptable abuse and what doesn't. And then mods bias's would come into question. It would just be a mess I think.

Paparazzo

Des wrote: »

More protection for the LoI please.

Still people are getting away with sly digs and subtle trolling. The mods don't care and only react when posts are reported, if even. Now, mods, you may say that isn't the case. But it IS the perception. And perception is 90% the reality. In any LoI thread you are almost guaranteed some funny arsehole coming in and saying something like "yeah well, it's a crap league anyway" or something along those line. It may have been funny the first fifty times it was said, but it get old fast.

+100

mayordenis

Dub13 the 2 that make the most sense to me immediately are as you said a Matchday forum - which means everyone on any given day could open a thread about any individual match but also the usual Saturday EPL match day threads and Friday LOI match threads complete will all scores.

Just for the record though you'd have no interest in say a "Clubs Superthread" forum? where there would only be the Current 20 odd superthreads but would allow smaller/less supported clubs have a superthreads without being lost and on the 40th page if anyone wants to comment on something relating to the club they either run a search or just give up.

mayordenis

on the loi debate you have to concede that it goes both ways, starting each thread with real football, real fans etc. it's just gouding people, fueling the fire if you will.
I try to avoid LOI related threads altogether sadly because I know it'll whittle itself down to farce quickly enough if I get involved even in a supportive way - I'll mention something or read someone having a go at the football I generally watch and of course I'll end up replying.

Saying all that I reckon people accusing people who follow any league/team in particular is something that should be added to the baneable offenses.

People tend to hide behind the "I can abuse a huge section of people, as long as I'm not singling one person out for abuse" which shouldn't be the case.

Unearthly

mayordenis wrote: »

on the loi debate you have to concede that it goes both ways, starting each thread with real football, real fans etc. it's just gouding people, fueling the fire if you will.
I try to avoid LOI related threads altogether sadly because I know it'll whittle itself down to farce quickly enough if I get involved even in a supportive way - I'll mention something or read someone having a go at the football I generally watch and of course I'll end up replying.

Saying all that I reckon people accusing people who follow any league/team in particular is something that should be added to the baneable offenses.

People tend to hide behind the "I can abuse a huge section of people, as long as I'm not singling one person out for abuse" which shouldn't be the case.

Fully agree

funny how one of the victims started a topic immeditaely after with a few digs in their OP :rolleyes:

OPENROAD

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

1) Soccer odds superthread formed

+1

Paparazzo

mayordenis wrote: »

on the loi debate you have to concede that it goes both ways, starting each thread with real football, real fans etc. it's just gouding people, fueling the fire if you will.
I try to avoid LOI related threads altogether sadly because I know it'll whittle itself down to farce quickly enough if I get involved even in a supportive way - I'll mention something or read someone having a go at the football I generally watch and of course I'll end up replying.

Saying all that I reckon people accusing people who follow any league/team in particular is something that should be added to the baneable offenses.

People tend to hide behind the "I can abuse a huge section of people, as long as I'm not singling one person out for abuse" which shouldn't be the case.

Real football real fans is on the front page of the http://www.loi.ie/ site. Oh no, this thread is turning into a LOI debate!