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Brian Lenihan on Vincent Browne tonight
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In fairness, Lenihan is never ever ever in a million years going to saying "**** Off - it was that bastards Cowen and Berties fault - I am just here picking up the pieces of their reign of terror!" whilst he still has hopes of advancing his political career within Fianna Fail. If and when he writes his memoirs, it will be a different story I am sure.
And if I was Lenihan Id assume it would be a real hardship constantly having to take the blame for Bertie/Cowens **** ups. Cowen is never going to confess "Yeah, you are right - I did make a balls of it as Minister of Finance and totally sacrificed the fiscal stability of the state to further my parties short term political interests..." Neither is Bertie. Ever. In a million years.
They are going to make excuses and do their best to divert blame away from themselves to international crises and foreigners and the ECB and the weather and Cristiano Ronaldo and Hurricane Katrina.
Them denying responsibility is standard fare. It's just a question of voters not getting sucked in by the lie.0 -
In fairness, Lenihan is never ever ever in a million years going to saying "**** Off - it was that bastards Cowen and Berties fault - I am just here picking up the pieces of their reign of terror!" whilst he still has hopes of advancing his political career within Fianna Fail. If and when he writes his memoirs, it will be a different story I am sure.
And if I was Lenihan Id assume it would be a real hardship constantly having to take the blame for Bertie/Cowens **** ups. Cowen is never going to confess "Yeah, you are right - I did make a balls of it as Minister of Finance and totally sacrificed the fiscal stability of the state to further my parties short term political interests..." Neither is Bertie. Ever. In a million years.
They are going to make excuses and do their best to divert blame away from themselves to international crises and foreigners and the ECB and the weather and Cristiano Ronaldo and Hurricane Katrina.
Them denying responsibility is standard fare. It's just a question of voters not getting sucked in by the lie.
When I say excuses I don't refer to the LOL ones you mentioned...I refer to the crap they are spouting day in day out for past 6 months...A bit of humility would go a long way..No one expects them to do what you're talking about..0 -
But doing humility might be confused with taking responsibility. They will never ever accept responsibility for this. Ever. To do so might lose them votes. And Lenihan is never ever going to put his boss under pressure by trying to blame him for the fiscal disaster that has occured.
The have come as close as they are ever going to come by accepting that "mistakes were made...by everyone..."
Thats the best you are going to get.0 -
CorkFenian wrote: »I said "Hes connected with the banking set, who will no doubt sort him out in the future as a sign of their gratitiude.."...Where is the conspiracy in that? Are you trying to say that it hasnt happened that way with prominent Fianna Failers before???FFS..If you are , you're being extremely naive IMHO
The trouble with Lenihan and FF is that they give all kinds of excuses,excuses and more excuses.FF have been in power since 1997 end of story. I don't need for Brian Lenihan to make sly subtle discretionary statements regarding his own involvement in the front bench of goverment or lack of up to a few years ago etc..FF are there and must take the blame just like it was so easy for them to take the credit over the years...Regularly I have to hear FF front and back benchers talk like they are in opposition..Its sickening
TBH..Where is your problem with that?
Regarding your last point that hes taken the right decisions..Very very few people besides hardline Fianna Failers would agree with you...
just to point out one thing before i get responding to your comment, i am not a fianna fail supporter. if anything i'd love to see cowen finally bow down. however i see the situation pragmatically. just because lenihan is saving the banks it doesnt mean he's actually connected with the banks. i mean the country needs banks, clean banks, that will get credit flowing and get the economy pumping. on one point though, i believe, lenihan did make a mistake and should have closed down the anglo-irish bank.
well to be honest when i watched the dail debate last week when lenihan was talking about the IMF report without cowen around it was probably his best performance yet. in fact he did, indirectly, admit to cowen's mistakes, but you can't expect him to say that his party leader messed up big time, unfortunately
i agree that FF must take the blame and if anything their poll results should be worse and FG should be higher up, but thats for a different debate.
with regards to the right decissions, i have stated that keeping anglo-irish a going concern was, maybe, a mistake and i also thing that last year's budget was all over the place to be honest, but he's learned now and his actions as a minister now are trying to stabilize the economy, for which he needs to take a lot of harsh decissions, but right one nonethelssIn fairness, Lenihan is never ever ever in a million years going to saying "**** Off - it was that bastards Cowen and Berties fault - I am just here picking up the pieces of their reign of terror!" whilst he still has hopes of advancing his political career within Fianna Fail. If and when he writes his memoirs, it will be a different story I am sure.
And if I was Lenihan Id assume it would be a real hardship constantly having to take the blame for Bertie/Cowens **** ups. Cowen is never going to confess "Yeah, you are right - I did make a balls of it as Minister of Finance and totally sacrificed the fiscal stability of the state to further my parties short term political interests..." Neither is Bertie. Ever. In a million years.
They are going to make excuses and do their best to divert blame away from themselves to international crises and foreigners and the ECB and the weather and Cristiano Ronaldo and Hurricane Katrina.
Them denying responsibility is standard fare. It's just a question of voters not getting sucked in by the lie.
great post! thumps up0 -
i mean the country needs banks, clean banks, that will get credit flowing and get the economy pumping.
No one is disputing this.There is a better way to do it without leveraging the tax payer to the present extent IMO
on one point though, i believe, lenihan did make a mistake and should have closed down the anglo-irish bank.
Pretty big mistake wouldnt you say. Anglo Irish being nationalised the evening before its EGM (covers up a lot of potential embarressing questions) should have sent alarm bells ringing..When shortly before he said it would never happen..More than the stuff of conspiracy legend wouldn't you say!
well to be honest when i watched the dail debate last week when lenihan was talking about the IMF report without cowen around it was probably his best performance yet.
The guy is a qualified barrister and extremely proficient debater. You are confusing covering up for half truths with a polished performance with actual substance and fact I'm afraid..
in fact he did, indirectly, admit to cowen's mistakes, but you can't expect him to say that his party leader messed up big time, unfortunately
I never said or expected him to do such a thing..Humility is different to that completely..Very few people in Ireland trust anything that comes out of his mouth at the moment.His comparison of Anglo Irish to Lehmans is absolutely odious and wrong0 -
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CorkFenian wrote: »on one point though, i believe, lenihan did make a mistake and should have closed down the anglo-irish bank. Pretty big mistake wouldnt you say
Just wondering, as the bank had already been guaranteed, what would have happened to people deposits? All 64 billion worth. Would the Irish government have had to pay these out?0 -
Spudmonkey wrote: »Just wondering, as the bank had already been guaranteed, what would have happened to people deposits? All 64 billion worth. Would the Irish government have had to pay these out?
How much of that though belongs to the golden circle or the property developer group? If I am not mistaken the Anglo was a bank for the select few. So perhaps saving the Anglo was really to bail out this select few?0 -
Spudmonkey wrote: »Would the Irish government have had to pay these out?
Yes. As soon as they included Anglo in the guarantee they tied their hands with respect to keeping it afloat.0 -
CorkFenian wrote: »i mean the country needs banks, clean banks, that will get credit flowing and get the economy pumping.
No one is disputing this.There is a better way to do it without leveraging the tax payer to the present extent IMO
on one point though, i believe, lenihan did make a mistake and should have closed down the anglo-irish bank.
Pretty big mistake wouldnt you say. Anglo Irish being nationalised the evening before its EGM (covers up a lot of potential embarressing questions) should have sent alarm bells ringing..When shortly before he said it would never happen..More than the stuff of conspiracy legend wouldn't you say!
well to be honest when i watched the dail debate last week when lenihan was talking about the IMF report without cowen around it was probably his best performance yet.
The guy is a qualified barrister and extremely proficient debater. You are confusing covering up for half truths with a polished performance with actual substance and fact I'm afraid..
in fact he did, indirectly, admit to cowen's mistakes, but you can't expect him to say that his party leader messed up big time, unfortunately
I never said or expected him to do such a thing..Humility is different to that completely..Very few people in Ireland trust anything that comes out of his mouth at the moment.His comparison of Anglo Irish to Lehmans is absolutely odious and wrong
as pointed out nesf below, and one thing i forgot, the government guarantee would mean that 64 billion would have to be paid out to the banks, so i see the point in keeping anglo a going concern.
with regards to the point about lenihan being a barrister and that we dont want to see polished performances...we do. how many times do you see the point that cowen has no leadership rise up in debates? many! we want to see that someone out there actually understands whats going on and can take us out. for that we need to see those polished performances, even if only to increase our own hope.0 -
as pointed out nesf below, and one thing i forgot, the government guarantee would mean that 64 billion would have to be paid out to the banks, so i see the point in keeping anglo a going concern.
with regards to the point about lenihan being a barrister and that we dont want to see polished performances...we do. how many times do you see the point that cowen has no leadership rise up in debates? many! we want to see that someone out there actually understands whats going on and can take us out. for that we need to see those polished performances, even if only to increase our own hope.
A polished performance in a one on one interview is a completely different thing to inspiring confidence..Do you think the average joe in Ireland has any faith\confidence in Lenihan at the moment?0 -
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CorkFenian wrote: »A polished performance in a one on one interview is a completely different thing to inspiring confidence..Do you think the average joe in Ireland has any faith\confidence in Lenihan at the moment?
no of course not, because lenihan is taking money away from the average joe to help to stabilise the economy and prevent ireland going bankrupt, but thats hard to explain to people who have to pay higher taxes or are unemployed, i agree. it's just that sometimes we have to see the bigger picture, even if our own problems prohibit us in seeing past our nose.0 -
InvisibleBadger wrote: »I thought it was a good interview, funny in places.
I was hoping for less angry questions, and a bit more of the discussion that usually takes place on Vincent Browne.
Hopefully more members of the government will end up in front of Vincent!
+1
Personally I think Browne is one of our "media stars" of the moment..potentially anyway.
Good robust interview..honours even I would say..but Browne didnt hold back.
Lost it a bit on the Garda Driver though...any decent accountant could prove that this is actually cost effective in the long term given the cost of Ministers time etc.
Can't understand why posters go on about Lenihans salary ...given the comparison between the obscene amounts trousered by people who raped the countries wealth and drove their companies into the ground...not to mention the alledged salaries of some of RTE / TV3 stars Finucane/Kenny/ Ryan et all.
Really shows up prime time....where they seem to try and jam about 5 different subjects into a very tight time slot...little chance of getting to the meat of thigs.
Good man Vincent ...keep it up ....0 -
Yes. As soon as they included Anglo in the guarantee they tied their hands with respect to keeping it afloat.
That's no excuse though.....it just means that they made the cock-up earlier, with no safeguards whatsoever, and then had no choice but to hang us out to dry later.
But they had a choice earlier, and they chose to put Anglo in the guarantee without Lenihan even reading the f**king report! ANY bailout should have been subject to (a) ethical and transparent transactions and (b) the types of "terms & conditions" that the average bank has zero problem imposing on you or I.
"They had no choice" is not an excuse; they had a choice earlier and completely bolloxed it up / helped out their buddies, depending on your level of conspiracy theory.
Either way, they should be out on their ear! Easily known it wasn't Lenihan's or FF's own money (mind you, that doesn't even make it as far as a bank, does it ?) :mad:
Speaking of which, did VB actually ask him why he didn't read the report before flushing our money down the cesspit that is Anglo ?0 -
Liam Byrne wrote: »That's no excuse though.....it just means that they made the cock-up earlier, with no safeguards whatsoever, and then had no choice but to hang us out to dry later.
But they had a choice earlier, and they chose to put Anglo in the guarantee without Lenihan even reading the f**king report! ANY bailout should have been subject to (a) ethical and transparent transactions and (b) the types of "terms & conditions" that the average bank has zero problem imposing on you or I.
"They had no choice" is not an excuse; they had a choice earlier and completely bolloxed it up / helped out their buddies, depending on your level of conspiracy theory.
Either way, they should be out on their ear! Easily known it wasn't Lenihan's or FF's own money (mind you, that doesn't even make it as far as a bank, does it ?) :mad:
Speaking of which, did VB actually ask him why he didn't read the report before flushing our money down the cesspit that is Anglo ?
Agree 100%...Its frustrating because they're people who don't question anything in this country...Just accept whatever c**p is thrown at them..0
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