home automation

mazthespark

planning on designing my own home automation system for my home. have the general idea of how its goin to operate and wat its goin to control. any one any ideas of wat i should incorporate etc. lookin for a possible way for a wireless touch screen controller for it if any one has ever heard of such a thing. any help would be great. any one ever tried this before?

knx

Hi Maz,
Need a little more information. What control system are you gonna install and what will you be controlling with it. What level of control do you require with the touch screen.

mazthespark

planning on using a combination of a plc and relays(for larger loads) generally lights heating ability to turn off all lights in house as leaving etc the plan was to mount this main screen (possibly a hmi) at the front door so u have complete control from there as u enter and then maybe a set of buttons as u enter each room to control the parts relative to that. the majority of it was to used for lighting control so dependin on which button u select a different selection of lights came on eg. b1 - all lights b2 - wal llights b3 wall lights and b4 all off. what the system will do isnt a problem as im an electrician its more so how i will control it touch sceen keypad etc. mite sound all a bit ambitous but i dont think its impossible

knx

It certainly isn't impossible. If your goin down the plc route I reckon you need some kind of BMS software running on a permanently connected PC. Afterall you do need to be able to create GUIs that can be directly linked to your various outputs and inputs. It's a long time since I had anything to do with PLCs so can't offer any suggestions. I assume you've got experience with them yourself. The upshot of all this would be that wireless control could be done with a PDA or tablet PC. Remote access also possible. Sounds like a cool little project. Keep us updated please..

steifanc

i doing something like that , i used a cross between software "labview and lookout" built my gui s with the software . then interfaced them with a dsc module/global variables to a gui in my main rooms. interfaced with a modbus driver via a plc.
taught process is
user-gui-labview-plc-relay/load handler.

system works well , i control , door locks(biometric readers) , alarm system , cctv , heating system, water pumps , solar collectors , central piped music system ,

still working on piping media from a central location, having problems with storage , im using a raid set up. i havnt figured out if the drives are too slow or my processers are too slow.

labview can be found at
www.ni.com

mazthespark

have the experience i gained while in college doin them. had never thought of connecting it into a pc for control would probably offer a lot more possibilities to the system. was just goin to have a set of buttons wall mounted for local control but a tablet or pda would make it more acessible
any ideas where i would go for software to control?

mazthespark

sounds like u certainly know your stuff steifanc. i get the idea but not how u put it into practice. sounds like u need a lot of software programming?? where i do know how 2 use a computer quite well i wouldnt be so good at writing software im afraid. would it be difficult could prob get my head around it. know a lot more about the electrical side of it bein an electrican. this is where my difficulty lies

knx

My last experince with actually programming PLCs was also in college/Fas. For me this was 16 years ago so the PLCs we were using would have been during the Commodore 64 era. If you know what i mean. I'm using a piece of software called Facility Pilot from a company called JUNG for my own house but it is designed for KNX bus systems. Have heard of it used for other applications but would not know enough about this to tell you how. Having a look at Steifnacs solution here at the moment. National Instruments is a name I have not heard for a long time. They used to have a unit in Clonsaugh ind park, maybe they still do. Did a job there years ago when worked for an Electrical Contractor based in Dublin.

mazthespark

mine was more recent using mitsubishis were using hand controller and some laptop programming. did have a look at his solution but did seem a bit confusing and possibly pricey. for heating control for example i could have a stat that when the temp dropped below 18 degrees say that the heating would come on or i could also over ride this from my gui etc. would i need all there gear to do this or would a standard room stat suffice??

knx

Labview seems easy enough to get basic functionality up and running. Very similar to whar I'm using. It's something you could be messing with forever though I'd say. Which isn't a bad thing and the only way to really gain an understanding of it. I saw something about training courses as well. Which version are you running steif? Maz I reckon the very fact that you have dreamed up this little project means you could get your head around it eventually. However in the meantime google google google. There are loads of softwares out there for what you wanna do. Mcontrol is one that has recently been brought to my attention. Can't remember the website but again google. Also it's cheap compared to labview. Couple of hundred I think. I've downloaded a trial version with a view to controlling a knx installation but I'm sure plugins are available for PLC control. Get your system wired and running and then look at implementing remote control over it. Do you know what i mean.

mazthespark

ya google got a right roastin in the last while starting to get into it but now i know wat direction to head in it has made it easier. it has been idea for years but was never sure how i would ever get it all to work until recently. just cant bring myself to giving some one thousands of euro to put in some system when i know theres a way to do it myself and probably for cheaper and that way it does exactly what i want not what they tell me it can

mazthespark

havin a look at mcontrol now. it seems like a pre made software and u just enter the commands u want it to do?does the system you use come with its own software/commands built in or is it just basically a controller and relays?

steifanc

knx wrote: »

Labview seems easy enough to get basic functionality up and running. Very similar to whar I'm using. It's something you could be messing with forever though I'd say. Which isn't a bad thing and the only way to really gain an understanding of it. I saw something about training courses as well. Which version are you running steif? Maz I reckon the very fact that you have dreamed up this little project means you could get your head around it eventually. However in the meantime google google google. There are loads of softwares out there for what you wanna do. Mcontrol is one that has recently been brought to my attention. Can't remember the website but again google. Also it's cheap compared to labview. Couple of hundred I think. I've downloaded a trial version with a view to controlling a knx installation but I'm sure plugins are available for PLC control. Get your system wired and running and then look at implementing remote control over it. Do you know what i mean.

im useing labview 8.6 with the dsc module.
there is a free download i dont know how much you can do with the free version. it is very expenctive software and only for i use the stuff i wouldnt of bought the packges just to use for home automation , i would look for a cheaper version. on the plus side i can analize data with labview not just control the flow of data like many programs only offer. once you get familliar with labview interfacing is easy . labview will deploy and address local and remote variables its self ,that in its self is worth the money and can save a days work and many boxes of panadol !!
mcontrol is probly more suited for home automation,as the dezine of the software is biased around home automation.
there iphone link up is pretty cool !!

mazthespark

ya mcontrol certainly seems a bit better suited to my needs. lab view seems if anything wasted on a simple home automation project the features seem endless. have emailed m control to see whether or not it will control a plc or needs a home automation system aswell if u get me. because i know a lot of the ones available come with software on them where a plc wouldnt

knx

It's saucy enough alright. However the facility pilot software I'm usin is fairly comparative. Again might not have bothered except I'm a knx integrator and need to know all the ins and outs of it (which i still don't). I've seen some projects that are just amazing. Even the developers are amazed with some of the things being done with it. I'm sure Labview would be similar in this respect also. On the sublect of the iphone. Is there anything this little device can't do. It's bloody brilliant. Haven't got one yet but as soon as vodafone contract runs out I'm havin one.

mazthespark

its mad what can be achieved when u start to modify whats already there. the hardest part usually its to get it started but once some oen does the hard work it seems very easy to modify it to suit. ya th iphone/ ipod touch are two great little machines . have an ipod touch myself and the stuff it can do and the software available is amazing! is knx an all in one home automation system? had a look at the website but dont seem to be able to get much information about it at all.

knx

You won't get much info from the knx website as it's just the knx organisation website. Knx is an open standard for automation systems. Not just limited to home automation but automation in general. Many companies make knx devices and as long as they are knx certified they will all talk to each other. Have a look at www.knxshop.co.uk.

mazthespark

how do u find mcontrol to work with? had a look at there site and sent them an email to see about plc control. looks like a good system to me but have a feeling it mitent work like i hope/need.

knx

I haven't done anything with it yet. Someone drew my attention to it because they have used it already to control x10 devices and said it worked very well. All I've done so far is download a trial version to look at the software and ascertained that it will control knx. It seems simple enough. I just haven't had the opportunity to apply it to a project yet. The price was what prompted me to suggest it to you. I've just had another look at the website and I reckon you should be able to use it. I will be using it for definite in the coming months and I will let you know how i get on. What stage is your house at by the way..

mazthespark

ok great sure let me know how u get on. its still in planning haha put when i start i will know everything i want in it etc and obviously the electrical side of it will get the most attention

2011

mazthespark, perhaps you should start by making out an I/O list, and from that a cable schedule. Allow for future expansion with the I/O list. Once you have a count you can look to see what PLCs will be suitable. EBay is a good place to buy cheap second hand PLCs.

There is a good free download available of Kepware OPC server and Iconics SCADA software too. They are both very user friendly and will work with almost all PLCs (Alen Bradley, Siemens, Mitsubushi, Schnider etc..)

mazthespark

looking at around 18/24 i/o depending on wat i can get to control the plc. will scada allow me just to program or have constant control over the plc? eg be able to use maybe a pda to control the plc

2011

SCADA system is a powerfull graphical interface that will allow you to control your PLC. You can switch devices on or off, change set points etc.. It can even control many PLCs and use an output from one PLC as an input for another. Below is an example of a SCADA page:

will scada allow me just to program

The SCADA system is not used to programme the PLC.

2011

eg be able to use maybe a pda to control the plc

Certianly a laptop could do this. A PDA, I am not sure TBH, but I would think so.

mazthespark

had heard of scada before on a previous job but never really knew what it was or what it was capable of. will try to find a download of it somewhere and give it a try.

steifanc

2011 wrote: »

SCADA system is a powerfull graphical interface that will allow you to control your PLC. The SCADA system is not used to programme the PLC.

scada
supervisory control and data acquisition

scada is a term used for control and the protcol of using information networks.
scada dosnt do any thing , nor is it a programme ,

mazthespark

would this be a bit more suitable to me than labview?

steifanc

mazthespark wrote: »

would this be a bit more suitable to me than labview?

that is what labview looks like .
you can make the user panel have any components you wish on it.
the way that the labview panel connects to the control function , interfaces with a plc or a modbus , and how the information is sent accross a network . all that combined can be collectively called a scada system .
scada on its own is just a term used , it dosnt do any thing

mazthespark

mite give the one that 2011 mentioned a go it seems a bit more affordable especially if i will probably only be ever doin the 1 project

Paulo1

Hi Guys, Don't know if you ever solved your controls problem but if your building a house and want a good level of control you should give serious thought to a system called Qbus home controls. Really needs to be installed when the house is being built but is totally scalable after that. you can buy add on ethernet access modules, SMS modules and just plug them in to the system. I installed it when I built and am delighted with what it can do!

mazthespark

Paulo1 wrote: »

Hi Guys, Don't know if you ever solved your controls problem but if your building a house and want a good level of control you should give serious thought to a system called Qbus home controls. Really needs to be installed when the house is being built but is totally scalable after that. you can buy add on ethernet access modules, SMS modules and just plug them in to the system. I installed it when I built and am delighted with what it can do!

had a look at that system you mentioned looks like a great system. was trying more to design my own and cut out the middle man having to come back to make changes etc to it for me all the time as is sometimes the case. and figure it will end up a lot cheaper and doin what i want it to do. was the system v. expensive to install?