**** you Street Fighter IV shortcuts

Retr0gamer

These are really beginning to annoy me with shoto characters particularly the down forward, down forward shortcut. I never have any problem in the other games recognising the difference between a fireball input and a dragon punch input but in SFIV every so often a dragon punch comes out instead of a fireball.

However even worse than that its I'm having trouble getting off super movements, they keep coming out as a dragon punch. I went into training and turned on display inputs. It seems when I fluff a super into a dragon punch I'm making a movement like

d, df, f, d, df, df, punch

The double down forward is recognised as a dragon punch and it's totally ****ed up. This is fine when I enter the comand in slowly but when you are trying to end a combo with a super or ultra you have to be very fast with the input and this keeps coming out. It's really annoying and I find it much easier to pull these moves off in SSF2T and third strike.

Stupid noob pad players, if they want to play SFIV they should get a decetn controller instead of capcom catering for them. Maybe I just need a octo gate

Dreddybajs

My friends have this problem occasionally and it's usually that they're not following through with the second qcf fully (ending on f). It's a bit annoying but you gotta remember that you're not actually doing the super motion 100% properly - if you were then the lenient input system wouldn't matter.

An octo gate might help as you'd slide from df to f easier, but there's nothing stopping you from getting it consistently on a square gate either. Just practice and you'll get it!

edit: Though I don't see how you could be ending on two dfs (as that requires going back to neutral) during a 2xQCF motion? Weird one.

Jim

It took me sooooooooo long to stop doing random cannon spikes when trying to pull off other moves. I've got it now though and rarely do it.

I still tend to do Cammy's Super straight after a cannon spike by accident though, total waste.

Kirby

yeh, its a problem alright. Just be glad that your wiff, a dragon punch, occasionally hits by accident.

Sometimes with sim, instead of an ultra, a regular teleport comes out.....and believe me that its VERY punishable. Ive learned to be careful about it and its mostly out of my game now tho.

I like the idea of the shortcut system and would definately leave it in. But each player needs the option to turn it off for them individually in the menu before a match. That would keep both sides happy.

Retr0gamer

Dreddybajs wrote: »

edit: Though I don't see how you could be ending on two dfs (as that requires going back to neutral) during a 2xQCF motion? Weird one.

Me neither but it's doing my head in. Even if I don't fully complete the move it should be easy for a decent shortcut system to recognise it as an incomplete super and not a dragon punch. I'm pretty sure the shortcut systems in the other games are there and never end in an error like a dragon punch.

I should concentrate of ending in a forward motion and do this when I'm throwing out a super on it's own but I have to do it quite slowly and the nature of ryus super means that it's practically useless doing it from afar since it does practically nothing when blocked and is easily avoided and punished. When you are doing it as part of a combo string you have to input it so fast that there's always going to be mistakes, especially with a square gate, unless you are really good and I can't see how the system can be so lenient to qcf or dragon punch motions but not lenient for super or ultra motions.

Kirby

Doesn't his ultra nearly always come off dragon punches and cancelled dragon punches? Seems to me most Ryu players have an age to wait as the opponent floats through the air...........

animaX

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I should concentrate on ending in a forward motion

I have similar issues when switching between third strike and SF4. Had to force myself to end quarter circle motions by deliberately holding forward that bit longer. You have to wait a couple of frames until the animation is over anyway, so there's no harm in holding forward during that animation.

Thing is, its harder to "find" forward on a square gate in the heat of the moment. I got an octogate instead so that I can find forward easily. But as everyone says, its all about preference. An octo is not necessarily better than a square

Azza

Embrace pyscho power. You don't need to worry about DP shortcuts when your a charge character!

Kirby

Azza wrote: »

Embrace pyscho power. You don't need to worry about DP shortcuts when you're an easy to play, overpowered character!

Fixed that for ya

Jim

Azza wrote: »

Embrace pyscho power. You don't need to worry about DP shortcuts when your a charge character!

Very well then. Bison mirror matches all Saturday it is!

Cunny-Funt

made a big post about all this in the old thread.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Stupid noob pad players, if they want to play SFIV they should get a decetn controller instead of capcom catering for them. Maybe I just need a octo gate

Ah here now its not pad players fault, Its easy as hell to do a dragon punch motion on a pad I dunno why the feck they needed to add the shortcuts, they do nothing but hinder the game. They make it harder not easier. For all players, us pad noobs, and you ultra god tier stick players. Btw you getting the PC version? We should play:p

About this octo gate and square gate stuff, now keep in mind I'm clueless about arcade sticks but what about a circle gate? why aint they used?

animaX wrote: »

I have similar issues when switching between third strike and SF4.

Ah another 3rd striker, do you play on 2df at all?

Azza wrote: »

Embrace pyscho power. You don't need to worry about DP shortcuts when your a charge character!

**Eh cough, bisons ultra coming out as a teleport cough... **

Retr0gamer

Kirby wrote: »

Doesn't his ultra nearly always come off dragon punches and cancelled dragon punches? Seems to me most Ryu players have an age to wait as the opponent floats through the air...........

You have to Ex focus cancel out of the dragon punch and I'm not really that good yet

Not getting the PC version, my PC is crap. As for circle gates they are used by some players, it's really a preference thing though. It's easier to find diagonals in a square gate, an octo gate it's easier to find any direction but can be a little slower and a circle gate takes a lot of getting used to. All the best japanese players use square gates but thats only because all arcades in japan use square gates so it's what they are used to.

Dreddybajs

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Me neither but it's doing my head in. Even if I don't fully complete the move it should be easy for a decent shortcut system to recognise it as an incomplete super and not a dragon punch. I'm pretty sure the shortcut systems in the other games are there and never end in an error like a dragon punch.

There is no evidence that it's a "shortcut system", it's just lenient input detection afaik.

Dreddybajs

Kirby wrote: »

Fixed that for ya

I realise this is just kidding but Bison is nowhere near easy to play well imo :pac:

edit: Whoops, double post

Cunny-Funt

Dreddybajs wrote: »

There is no evidence that it's a "shortcut system", it's just lenient input detection afaik.

Pretty sure it was confirmed on SRK before we even got to play it over here and I'm pretty sure I had this discussion with you in the old thread too lol.

Dreddybajs

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

Pretty sure it was confirmed on SRK before we even got to play it over here and I'm pretty sure I had this discussion with you in the old thread too lol.

Yeah, I still don't buy it though - tbh I think if it were a shortcut it would be mentioned in the manual or something.

animaX

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

Ah another 3rd striker, do you play on 2df at all?

I would love to (and have tried to!) but I'm stuck behind a proxy and can't connect. Maybe when I get my own internet connection. I read on 2df once that they might allow connection from a prxy server, have they ever implemented that?

Cunny-Funt

Old discussion on the shortcut system:

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=59670167&highlight=shortcuts#post59670167

animaX wrote: »

I would love to (and have tried to!) but I'm stuck behind a proxy and can't connect. Maybe when I get my own internet connection. I read on 2df once that they might allow connection from a prxy server, have they ever implemented that?

You on a college campus or something? Does it not let you host or you can't connect at all?

Hmm, were you the Irish guy I was chatting to about this on the 2df forums aaaaaaaaaages ago?

animaX

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

You on a college campus or something? Does it not let you host or you can't connect at all?

Hmm, were you the Irish guy I was chatting to about this on the 2df forums aaaaaaaaaages ago?

Yeah that was me, haha! I'm still on a college campus and I was getting some error message. I remember a forum post where damdai said something about not being able to connect and that he was doing something about it

Dreddybajs

I don't think that "confirmed" that it is one way or the other, just that SRK posters call it a shortcut - which it is. What I'm saying is, and was saying then, that Capcom didn't intentionally say "let df df be a dragon punch", but that they coded the input system leniently so that the game happens to recognise df df as a dragon punch.

There're other shortcutty ways to do it, like df,d,df - I don't think Capcom specifically coded each one of these into the engine separately, but rather that they said something along the lines of "if the player gets 80% of the DP motion out, have the character do a DP" (not this exactly obviously). So what I was saying all along was that it's systemic of the whole input system and not a special case for DPs, though that's where it's most commonly seen.

L31mr0d

for shotos with qcf I've learned to not even touch the sides. Doing 2 small circles with the stick, slightly in the direction that I'm facing works all of the time. I do have to use a different, more pronounced motion, for doing the qcf for fireballs though.

Retr0, when you are facing right, try making 2 circles in the lower right quadrant of the stick without touching the sides (I literally only move the stick a few mm's off the center point), doing this also makes it a lot easier for me to buffer the move to come out exactly at the end of a jump, or after any standing attack

Kirby

Dreddybajs wrote: »

but Bison is nowhere near easy to play well imo :pac:

This is hard to explain I suppose.....

Ya know when some people moan about Zangief and Sagat? They get beaten and think to themselves, "That guy wasn't better than me.....he just did the same thing over and over....and it worked! How hard can it be?"

Thats how i feel about bison. Its a personal thing. I've been beaten by some terrible bisons online. Yes, its my fault too but thats just the way it is. Scissors kick is just so safe on block. You can control headstomp and decide where you want to land if you change your mind.

Atleast Zangief has to close range to do damage. When players Lariat spam me, I just duck and punch. When Sagat's tiger spam, I yoga tower, Jump drill, or slide under and punish.

It just feels that when I fight against Bison players, they dont even have to work hard. Ive been working hard to overcome my shortcomings in the matchup but its just so infuriating to have so much trouble against a simple combo string of low kick scissor, followed by ex scissor, followed by low kick scissor, etc.

Dreddybajs

Kirby wrote: »

You can control headstomp and decide where you want to land if you change your mind.

You can?

edit: I get what you mean, but Bison has it tough in that he's an extremely offensive, constant pressure, link-based character in a game that is designed such that characters like that get ****ed in the ass, is what I think, really. I don't know the Sim vs Bison matchup at all, I was just thinking of over the game in general.

Retr0gamer

L31mr0d wrote: »

Retr0, when you are facing right, try making 2 circles in the lower right quadrant of the stick without touching the sides (I literally only move the stick a few mm's off the center point), doing this also makes it a lot easier for me to buffer the move to come out exactly at the end of a jump, or after any standing attack

Thanks I'll give it a try tonight.

Dreddybajs

Yeah I do it by doing circles in the bottom quadrant rather than grinding over the edge of the gate too.

Cunny-Funt

animaX wrote: »

Yeah that was me, haha! I'm still on a college campus and I was getting some error message. I remember a forum post where damdai said something about not being able to connect and that he was doing something about it

Ah so it was you, Hello again! Yeah Damdai says a lot of things... hell the guys not shown his face on those forums in a long time, and now its overrun by seriously annoying 15 year olds with massive anime sigs that take up a whole screen. (I ****ing kid you not).

Still 2df is fantastic. Real pitty you can't get on there. You the lad thats in DCU yeah? They (gamesoc) ran a SFIV tourny one week there but I feckin missed it :mad:

Dreddybajs wrote: »

I don't think that "confirmed" that it is one way or the other, just that SRK posters call it a shortcut - which it is. What I'm saying is, and was saying then, that Capcom didn't intentionally say "let df df be a dragon punch", but that they coded the input system leniently so that the game happens to recognise df df as a dragon punch.

There're other shortcutty ways to do it, like df,d,df - I don't think Capcom specifically coded each one of these into the engine separately, but rather that they said something along the lines of "if the player gets 80% of the DP motion out, have the character do a DP" (not this exactly obviously). So what I was saying all along was that it's systemic of the whole input system and not a special case for DPs, though that's where it's most commonly seen.

I understand what your saying alright and I see. But I really get the impression capcom did puts those in like that and that its not merely down to the more lenient frames for entering moves. To me the more lenient system is down to a large window of opportunity in terms of frames, where you can execute your move. ST v 3s for example.

We'll have to agree to disagree anyways lol.


@ Kirby, LOL totally agree on bison. EX headstomp = win button. And its BS that his slide is not punishable (unless he does it from miles away) yet blankas is.

Dreddybajs wrote: »

You can?
, but Bison has it tough in that he's an extremely offensive,

Offensive? I see most bisons play in a defensive way. Hit and run tactics, always jumping back away or walking backwards away from you. He is a charge character after all, he's no cammy lol :P

Dreddybajs

Yeah I agree with you Cunny, I don't define a lenient input system only by frame windows. I think we're actually agreeing with each other and just miscommunicating tbh.

edit: Can't you throw Bison after a blocked slide? Also I think you see people playing him defensively because that's the way SF4 is designed, rather than the way the character is.

Azza

Cunny_funt wrote:

**Eh cough, bisons ultra coming out as a teleport cough... **

**...Eh cough, negative edge ensures you never get teleport cough...**

Kirby wrote:

It just feels that when I fight against Bison players, they dont even have to work hard. Ive been working hard to overcome my shortcomings in the matchup but its just so infuriating to have so much trouble against a simple combo string of low kick scissor, followed by ex scissor, followed by low kick scissor, etc.

For you the day you fought Bison in SF IV was the toughest battle in your life. But for me, it was Tuesday"

Kirby

Ah yes, but the day Bison will be beaten up by a skinny indian man......will be Saturday

animaX

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

Ah so it was you, Hello again! Yeah Damdai says a lot of things... hell the guys not shown his face on those forums in a long time, and now its overrun by seriously annoying 15 year olds with massive anime sigs that take up a whole screen. (I ****ing kid you not).

Still 2df is fantastic. Real pitty you can't get on there. You the lad thats in DCU yeah? They (gamesoc) ran a SFIV tourny one week there but I feckin missed it :mad:

Yeah hows it goin I'm still in DCU and still can't connect. However, I'll be bringing the xbox Anniversary edition with third strike to the meet up tomorrow if you're going. We can play a few then. But bear in mind that I can't play online so I'm probably not very competitive

Was thinkin of joining DCU gamesoc but I thought they play more fps's and stuff?

Retr0gamer

If this gets any worse I might just become a Zangief player.