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Electricians Strike

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13567…10

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    #62
    techdiver
    Registered Users Posts: 3,204 ✭✭✭techdiver


    Riskymove wrote: »
    perhaps but how many firms are trying "oh its a recession, the workforce better take a 10% cut or we are finished" without having to prove anything

    I remember recently the decision by Erikkson to relocate some part of its business was criticised as simply being to move it to lower wage environment while using the recession as cover. It was not in trouble or likely to be bankrupt or anything.

    Does that not prove anything to you? Relocation happens because the cost of doing business in a certain place is too expensive in relation to wages, rates etc. A company will only move or shut up shop if it makes more economic sense than staying put.

    If we lived by your rational of "lets keep wages high", we would loose all jobs and investment. The country needs to grow up and realise that we live in a different world now!


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    #63
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    techdiver wrote: »
    ... Too many left school and saw this as a quick way to earn big bucks without a third level education and now these decisions have come home to roost!

    Are we supposed to respect graduate-entry occupations and despise the rest?

    I have a reasonable collection of parchments, but I do not think that sets me above other people.


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    #64
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    techdiver wrote: »
    Does that not prove anything to you? Relocation happens because the cost of doing business in a certain place is too expensive in relation to wages, rates etc. A company will only move or shut up shop if it makes more economic sense than staying put...

    Manufacturing and some service industry is mobile. Construction is not. If I need somebody to re-wire my house, it cannot be outsourced to India.


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    #65
    techdiver
    Registered Users Posts: 3,204 ✭✭✭techdiver


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    Are we supposed to respect graduate-entry occupations and despise the rest?

    I have a reasonable collection of parchments, but I do not think that sets me above other people.

    That's not what I was saying, so don't put words in my mouth. My point was that people in traditionally higher value positions are not earning as much as that. All professions should be respected, but lets get real here, some professions should be paid better than others, that's the way the world work unless you live under a far left regime!


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    #66
    techdiver
    Registered Users Posts: 3,204 ✭✭✭techdiver


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    Manufacturing and some service industry is mobile. Construction is not. If I need somebody to re-wire my house, it cannot be outsourced to India.

    Cost across all sectors are more closely coupled than you may realise. Example - Multinational needs an electrical contractor to retrofit or repair wiring to its facility. Due to the high wage cost associated with this work, the contractor needs to charge a certain rate to this multinational, which drives the costs of this multinationals operating base.


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    #67
    Spudmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 2,899 ✭✭✭Spudmonkey


    Riskymove wrote: »
    perhaps but how many firms are trying "oh its a recession, the workforce better take a 10% cut or we are finished" without having to prove anything

    I remember recently the decision by Erikkson to relocate some part of its business was criticised as simply being to move it to lower wage environment while using the recession as cover. It was not in trouble or likely to be bankrupt or anything.

    Yeah but multi-nationals did not locate here with the intention of making us wealthier, it was purely to make money on their part. We can't fault a company for wanting to make money, thats its primary purpose.

    I do agree that companies should be made show details of how they cannot stay in business, otherwise we are just taking their word for it.


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    #68
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    techdiver wrote: »
    Does that not prove anything to you? Relocation happens because the cost of doing business in a certain place is too expensive in relation to wages, rates etc. A company will only move or shut up shop if it makes more economic sense than staying put.

    I am of course aware of that and most multinationals left people somewhere else without jobs to come here. But if they are moving somewhere else to make higher profits they should say so not pretend its "because of the recession"
    If we lived by your rational of "lets keep wages high", we would loose all jobs and investment. The country needs to grow up and realise that we live in a different world now!

    my rationale of "let's keep wages high"?

    and to think you then gave out to another poster for "putting words in my mouth"??:rolleyes:


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    #69
    techdiver
    Registered Users Posts: 3,204 ✭✭✭techdiver


    Riskymove wrote: »
    my rationale of "let's keep wages high"?

    and to think you then gave out to another poster for "putting words in my mouth"??:rolleyes:

    Fair enough. I withdraw that comment.


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    #70
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Spudmonkey wrote: »
    Yeah but multi-nationals did not locate here with the intention of making us wealthier, it was purely to make money on their part. We can't fault a company for wanting to make money, thats its primary purpose.

    well yes, but where's the line..or is there a line at all?

    by doing something thay can make more money (note MORE money, not stay afloat) but at the expense of their workers..should it always be done?..is maximum profit the only thing we should be driven by?


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    #71
    ParkRunner
    Registered Users Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭ParkRunner


    Most of the rest of us have absolutely no prospect of being paid agreed increases under the Towards 2016 agreement and have already taken a pay decrease so if the electricians get away with going forward with no change in their pay, apart from the levies imposed on everyone, they will be doing pretty well for themselves.


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    #72
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    techdiver wrote: »
    I think the entire construction sector is getting a sharp dose of reality at the moment. They were over paid for a long time and now they need to realise that the good times are over.

    Top graduates in highly skilled areas don't make near €21 per hour and these guys expect to be paid more than that?? Laughable!

    Too many left school and saw this as a quick way to earn big bucks without a third level education and now these decisions have come home to roost!


    one of the few sensible posts in this thread , every second young fella who left school in the past ten years became an electrician in the area i live , they were over paid and had ten golden years , it laughable that they are cribbing about not having got an increase since 2006 considering the country is economically nowhere near as healthy as it was in 2006


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    #73
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    brianthebard wrote: »
    Have you met him Jip? All I see from the people opposed to unions is a lot of empty opinions and rethoric.

    Care to respond to post #31?


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    #74
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    turgon wrote: »
    Care to respond to post #31?

    Nothing to reply to, no thanks.


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    #75
    Spudmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 2,899 ✭✭✭Spudmonkey


    Riskymove wrote: »
    well yes, but where's the line..or is there a line at all?

    by doing something thay can make more money (note MORE money, not stay afloat) but at the expense of their workers..should it always be done?..is maximum profit the only thing we should be driven by?

    I don't know if there is. Has a foreign company investing in Ireland any other purpose other than generating maximum profit?


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    #76
    mrgaa1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 759 ✭✭✭mrgaa1


    €21 an hour is outrageous. these sparks are living in cloud cuckoo land. If they work 42.5hrs a week (which I doubt) thats €892.5 a week, or €46.5k a year. For pulling a bit of wire etc... yes you need to be qualified to hold a screw driver and you need to know whats live, neutral etc... but for FFS its not entirely rocket science. Fire the lot of them and take the sparks in from N.Ireland, England, anywhere who will work for €13 an hour and get the job done quicker, better and less whinging. The country is on its knees and these guys want a pay rise. Give them the pay rise and then let them go or keep your job .... which one to choose?
    There was a guy on Radio 1 from Tullamore today who was a builder and he spoke about pricing a job - the cheapest quote from a southern electrical contractor was €1.05million - from the north €825,000 - 21.5% cheaper. And don't refer to VAT - its all claimed back.


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    #77
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    In my opinion,it's the most ridiculous ill thought out strike ever.
    The Union leader who has been on the radio defending it,sounds more at home in Castro's Cuba.
    He went on and on about profit as if it was a dirty word.

    Frankly if jobs are lost as a result of this,the people have themselves to blame.
    Reality check needed badly.

    €24.50 an hour and complaining in a time when the dole queues are heading for 500k :rolleyes:


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    #78
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Riskymove wrote: »
    well yes, but where's the line..or is there a line at all?

    by doing something thay can make more money (note MORE money, not stay afloat) but at the expense of their workers..should it always be done?
    Not if it is in breach of the law, no.


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    #79
    sovtek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭sovtek


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Not if it is in breach of the law, no.

    The law is pretty weak when it comes to balancing the interests of society and corporate profit making. The most money wins in that situation.


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    #80
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    brianthebard wrote: »
    Nothing to reply to, no thanks.

    No. Not even to say the scenario is wrong? Or right? Or are you afraid either admission will mark a hole in your ideals?


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    #81
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,591 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    For pulling a bit of wire etc... yes you need to be qualified to hold a screw driver and you need to know whats live, neutral etc...
    Have you ever worked as an electrican??? Do you have any idea of what you are talking about??? The pay issue is one thing, but to suggest that it is unskilled is quite another!


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    #82
    hey_hey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 56 ✭✭hey_hey


    mrgaa1 wrote: »
    €21 an hour is outrageous. these sparks are living in cloud cuckoo land. If they work 42.5hrs a week (which I doubt) thats €892.5 a week, or €46.5k a year. For pulling a bit of wire etc... yes you need to be qualified to hold a screw driver and you need to know whats live, neutral etc... but for FFS its not entirely rocket science. Fire the lot of them and take the sparks in from N.Ireland, England, anywhere who will work for €13 an hour and get the job done quicker, better and less whinging. The country is on its knees and these guys want a pay rise. Give them the pay rise and then let them go or keep your job .... which one to choose?
    There was a guy on Radio 1 from Tullamore today who was a builder and he spoke about pricing a job - the cheapest quote from a southern electrical contractor was €1.05million - from the north €825,000 - 21.5% cheaper. And don't refer to VAT - its all claimed back.

    your quite an ignorant person, You think its just live,neutral and earth and how to hold a screwdriver.... Im not saying its rocket science but there is a lot more to it than that. If its that easy then next time your housing estate loses power go get your phase tester and get out and fix it......didnt think so!!!
    And your comment about bringing in N.ireland workers is stupid. Do you mind me asking what you work as, because i guarantee you i could get a polish worker twice as good as you at half the price.


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    #83
    Tommy T
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Tommy T


    Great to see the wonderful support the lads and lassies of the TEEU got today up and down the country. Here's hoping ICTU pull their finger out and give them the backing they deserve... To all members of the TEEU, we in the CPSU salute you...


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    #84
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0706/electricians.html

    Diageo have today secured a High Court injunction preventing pickets outside their premises at Clondalkin and St. James Gate. It seems like the Ghost of William Martin Murphy has turned up at St. James Gate this afternoon. I can see this strike spiralling out of control over this development...


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    #85
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    sovtek wrote: »
    The law is pretty weak when it comes to balancing the interests of society and corporate profit making.
    I don’t think that’s true at all. I would say that employees are pretty well protected by the law in modern Ireland, hence I’ve never felt the need to join a union.


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    #86
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    kickoutthejams wrote: »
    They said they'd forego the pay increases they were mandated in exchange for no pay cuts.
    Do you have a source for this? Because I haven’t seen it reported anywhere.


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    #87
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    djpbarry wrote: »
    I would say that employees are pretty well protected by the law in modern Ireland...

    The same law that today said workers cannot picket outside their place of work after following notice procedure as prescribed in legislation for the purposes of going on an official strike???


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    #88
    mrgaa1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 759 ✭✭✭mrgaa1


    hey_hey wrote: »
    your quite an ignorant person, You think its just live,neutral and earth and how to hold a screwdriver.... Im not saying its rocket science but there is a lot more to it than that. If its that easy then next time your housing estate loses power go get your phase tester and get out and fix it......didnt think so!!!
    And your comment about bringing in N.ireland workers is stupid. Do you mind me asking what you work as, because i guarantee you i could get a polish worker twice as good as you at half the price.

    that is some statement - i could get a polish worker twice as good as you at half the price. difficult thing to do when I don't have a job.
    Onto the electricians - they are overpaid for what they do. Its not rocket science and trust me if my housing estate lost power its ESB i'd be ringing. Our economy is knackered and these trade union wants a pay hike that they say was owed to them. Smell the f**king coffee - we are heading for half a million unemployed people who would love to be working and some people want a pay rise. Keep your job because trust me its not very pleasant being out of work.
    Trade unions are a pain in the ar*e. They will destroy this country once and for all and they won't look in the mirror when they are doing it - its always everybody else's problem.
    I heard today on RTE 1 radio an electrician speaking saying he was a member of the union - he didn't agree with the strike but had to because if he crossed the line he'd never get back onto another site. What sort of union is this? What sort of country allows this to happen?


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    #89
    hey_hey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 56 ✭✭hey_hey


    mrgaa1 wrote: »
    that is some statement - i could get a polish worker twice as good as you at half the price. difficult thing to do when I don't have a job.

    I heard today on RTE 1 radio an electrician speaking saying he was a member of the union - he didn't agree with the strike but had to because if he crossed the line he'd never get back onto another site. What sort of union is this? What sort of country allows this to happen?

    Believe me i sympathise with you and the thousands of people in your situation but i dont thinks its right saying get N.irish workers to do the job.... We could start getting companies from other countries to do jobs in every sector, but thats not going to help us, the irish people.

    Funny enough i dont actually agree with the strike, It doesnt effect me as i am a maintenance electrician, and have different pay agreements to contractors. If i was a contractor i would be happy to meet the employers half-way ie. not getting the 11% raise but also avoiding the 10% pay cut.

    Nobody ever said an electricians job was rocket science, but there is far more to it than what you said in your previous post. And until you complete your 4 year standards based apprenticeship i dont think you can comment on whats involved in an electricians job.


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    #90
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    hey_hey wrote: »
    If i was a contractor i would be happy to meet the employers half-way ie. not getting the 11% raise but also avoiding the 10% pay cut.

    That solution is so blindingly obvious why has it not been reached already? :confused:
    Are the parties afraid to comprimise and appear weak?


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    #91
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    turgon wrote: »
    No. Not even to say the scenario is wrong? Or right? Or are you afraid either admission will mark a hole in your ideals?

    No.


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