Weed

liah

People in this country don't even know how to smoke weed. You bastards mix it with tobacco ffs. Like, wtf?! No wonder it's addictive, it's half a cigarette!

Plus the weed here is far, far from pure and you never know wtf you're getting. Also, half of you seem to think that hash and weed are identical and interchangeable in title-- they're not.

Ireland isn't a good place for debate on weed as the majority of you have only tried it or know people who tried it in this country while mixed with tobacco and probably haven't a clue about the real stuff.

Stuff here gives a bad buzz and makes you paranoid and sick half the time. Try good, proper, pure weed, not mixed with anything, and then put in your two cents.

/end rant.
/end missing Canadian weed.

Odysseus

Boggle wrote: »

It was just throwaway comment pointing out that coca cola is a far more physically addictive product than hash and it has far worse side-effects.

When theoretical knowledge and practical knowledge don't add up there is only ever one reason: the theory is wrong. Ergo practical trumps theoretical every time.

I tried researching it once and as far as I could find (and there were no straight statistical comparisons), we appear to have a higher incidence of psychological problems that both Holland and Canada. But I would welcome the opportunity for a professional, with access to official figures, to put the question to bed.
???? Do you have any idea of how many people in this country actually smoke? (Hint: how many people has anybody ever met that refused a drag?) If you were right, half the country would be in a loony bin.
By the way, you coming out with ridiculous off the wall numbers just distances your theoretical knowledge with the rest of our practical knowledge and makes you sound a bit.... err... ??mad??.

Right I presuming we can leave the last bit of your post aside as I think my above post clarified the mistake.

Do you actually believe that coca cola is more damaging that hash? I never seen anyone with a coca cola induced disorder.

But where does the theory and practice not match up apart from your viewpoint?

The only difference the would be in accessing material between us would be that maybe I would have slightly better access to some journals than yourself. Personally I would say trying to get offical figures for drug induced disorders in Ireland would be difficult if they even exist that is. There may be some minor reports but that would be about the sum of it, and they would be a few years old.

We are getting slightly better at reporting some things, for example as its half-way through the year I have forms to fill out for every patient I have seen so far this year, but that just looks at the type of drug, amount of time used, demographic details, treatment outcome. Nothing about mental health there.

g5fd6ow0hseima

Odysseus,

Do you have much personal experience with cannabis?

Snowie

Wertz wrote: »

Referring specifically to hashish: how much of the pollutants and cutting agents found in most of the mid and low grade stuff we get here could possibly be responsible for some of the negative mental and physical effects attributed to high grade herbal cannabis or pure THC?
I know a fair bit of reseacrh has been done on medically pure THC under controlled conditions, but I have to wonder about just how much research has been done into so-called "soapbar" and the low grades resins containing rubbers, plastics, oils and other such nastiness? How does the continuing mass prohibition of cannabis negatively contribute to the availability of a safe (r?) unadulterated supply.
The effects of habitual hash smoking (the kind most youngsters start off with here, or at least used to) would be of far more of a concern to me personally than the effects of the cannibinoid itself.
Unfortunately that whole aspect of the drug and it's inherent danger is lost amongst a panic over the main active ingredient and an unwillingness to admit that people are ingesting far worse things during their time spent getting high, than that which causes the high itself...

well the reason soap bar contains such chems is simple what, most people tend to forget is the amount plants need to create one ounce is considerable, thus containg these, chemical's. The known method is when you have a grow house of say 600 plant's some of them are male's some of them die.
So knock 50 plants on the head, so after you cultivated your plants there's left over stems leaves etc, what do you do with it, stick it in a shredder, turn it into pulp, add some chemicals to give you that oh so lovely feeling of being stoned...Add some glue hence why you all ways get peaces of plastic in soap bar, Soap bar its not really hash it more just using up left overs and having a good profit... of what you've grown, yet people smoke this stuff because its sold cheeply and in the early to late 90s and early 00s itrish people would pay for this muck highly because it was all we could get.. So your completely right..

Its muck...

robby^5

@ Odysseus: What severe damage have you seen cannabis have on people? What would the symptons be in a severe case?

I'm just curious because I'll be honest in that I've never heard of cannabis destorying anybodies life ever, whereas constantly in the news you hear of people suffering terribly or even dying from use of harder drugs and I'm just wondering what "severe" means in regards to "cannabis depenancy" (I personally dont believe there is such a thing as dependance on cannabis and thats it down to the person themselves having a lack of will power or an addictive personality)

Snowie

liah wrote: »

People in this country don't even know how to smoke weed. You bastards mix it with tobacco ffs. Like, wtf?! No wonder it's addictive, it's half a cigarette!

Plus the weed here is far, far from pure and you never know wtf you're getting. Also, half of you seem to think that hash and weed are identical and interchangeable in title-- they're not.

Ireland isn't a good place for debate on weed as the majority of you have only tried it or know people who tried it in this country while mixed with tobacco and probably haven't a clue about the real stuff.

Stuff here gives a bad buzz and makes you paranoid and sick half the time. Try good, proper, pure weed, not mixed with anything, and then put in your two cents.

/end rant.
/end missing Canadian weed.

yep irish weed does suck its low grade...
shiote but we do have some very good growers from what ive experenced:)....

cedomination

Never have and never will.

deadhead13

Gave it up a long time ago and I can't say I miss it.

Boggle

Odysseus wrote:

Right I presuming we can leave the last bit of your post aside as I think my above post clarified the mistake.

Absolutely - corrected mine as soon as I realised too.

Do you actually believe that coca cola is more damaging that hash? I never seen anyone with a coca cola induced disorder.

I actually do, believe it or not! Obesity and diabetes is one of the biggest problems of our generation and I guarantee when I have children they will not be getting fizzy drinks. (or tv - but thats another matter)

But where does the theory and practice not match up apart from your viewpoint?

Okay.
Psychosis: never seen any evidence of it anywhere. May be some merit to the claim that smoking while young can cause problems but cannot prove it as my mates are well beyond that stage and too few of them would have smoked that young. Do know people who had very scary highs but they just didn't do it again - no harm done.

Addiction: No way in hell. Ever. A friend of mine gave it up because she says she just became weird and "not a nice person". She would often be with us when we are having a few tokes but it doesn't bother her. Even now, after i used joints to give up fags, I'm out for the first time in a while and not only do I not miss the joints but I have no craving whatsoever for even a fag. There is no physical addiction. There is no mental addiction outside of whatever the technical term is for enjoying something.

Drive: Any wasters I know were wasters before they smoked.

Gateway: The correlation is due to the fact that the same guy sells all illegal drugs.

Prohibition: As long as we cannot keep drugs out of a 8x8 cell surrounded by guards, then there is no way that prohibition can effectively work. As it stands its only effect is to drive those with mental issues towards drugs (self destructive outlet) and to start the distribution chain at school level. I remember the easiest time of my life to get some smoke was in school off my class mates.

The only difference the would be in accessing material between us would be that maybe I would have slightly better access to some journals than yourself. Personally I would say trying to get offical figures for drug induced disorders in Ireland would be difficult if they even exist that is. There may be some minor reports but that would be about the sum of it, and they would be a few years old.

Not looking for drug induced disorders at all. Just looking for the numbers suffering from ailments which it has been claimed are a result of hash. Either we are better or worse than holland. If we are worse, then it is fair to say there is no link between smoke, or the availability thereof, and the mental disorders.
Have you access to those figures?

Odysseus

robby^5 wrote: »

@ Odysseus: What severe damage have you seen cannabis have on people? What would the symptons be in a severe case?

Well you can look at it in terms of different levels, there is the person who feels they can do anything without, which in turn has effect on there quality of life, those who experence panic attacks which can be quite severe.

Those who become pathologically withdrawn effecting their relationships, ability to work.

You can look at all types of stuff such as motivation, communication skills, effects on memory all that type of stuff can range from mild to severe and of course the impact it has on a person's life would depend on how mild or severe it is.

However, what would strike me as severe would would be more around the "drug induced disorder" here is a link


http://www.who.int/substance_abuse/terminology/ICD10ClinicalDiagnosis.pdf

page 7 gives a citeria for drug induced disorders "psychotic disorder. Though the american DSM also gives citeria for drug induced depression and panic/anxiety disorder.

It bad cases the person usually ends up in hospital, its a horrible condition as I understand. I always remember one quy who within a few drags of a joint would started to hear voices, from the TV, radio or just coming at him.

It makes you value you own mental health after working with a few guys like that. You wouldn't wish on your worst ememy.

cool.dude572

I actaully prefer jwh.

I know it's blasphemy but it's less side effecty. I want giggles and slight psychedelia. Mongyness is not for me.

Getting stoned in a wooded area and having a laugh with your friends is so much better than slumping on a couch watching some stoner comedy.

rantyface

The problem with the links with psychosis are firstly, that consumption has increased while schizophrenia has decreased in the country, and secondly, most of the research looked for symptoms of psychoses rather than full blown schizophrenia. I think ayone who's tried bad hash in bad company knows it can bring on intense paranoia, but it's transient. Another syptom is "disordered thinking"... that speaks for itself.
Epidemiologicaly the hypothesis is not supported, and not enough is known about THC's physical effects on the brain to form a solid theory yet. That goes for either way- it could induce illness in some people. We don't know!

People who over use it must have underlying problems to begin with because it's not normal to want THAT degree of escapism.

Boggle

I always remember one quy who within a few drags of a joint would started to hear voices, from the TV, radio or just coming at him.

You saw this? Thats not right and pretty fits in with the underlying mental issues as I said.

Well you can look at it in terms of different levels, there is the person who feels they can do anything without, which in turn has effect on there quality of life, those who experence panic attacks which can be quite severe.

They need a. KICK. UP. THE. ARSE.

You can look at all types of stuff such as motivation, communication skills, effects on memory all that type of stuff can range from mild to severe and of course the impact it has on a person's life would depend on how mild or severe it is.

Okay, but how do you get to meet them? I mean nobody goes for treatment cos their lazy so why do you get to meet them.

I see alot of stuff that fit into the "and the patient also smokes" category but no indication of causation...

rantyface

cool.dude572 wrote: »

I actaully prefer jwh.

I have read that it's metabolised by CYP450 liver enzymes. That means in could interfere with common medications including the contraceptive pill.
Careful!

For people who didn't know- jwh is the active compound in legal highs from head shops like Spice.

Odysseus

Boggle wrote: »

Absolutely - corrected mine as soon as I realised too.

I actually do, believe it or not! Obesity and diabetes is one of the biggest problems of our generation and I guarantee when I have children they will not be getting fizzy drinks. (or tv - but thats another matter)

Okay.
Psychosis: never seen any evidence of it anywhere. May be some merit to the claim that smoking while young can cause problems but cannot prove it as my mates are well beyond that stage and too few of them would have smoked that young. Do know people who had very scary highs but they just didn't do it again - no harm done.

Addiction: No way in hell. Ever. A friend of mine gave it up because she says she just became weird and "not a nice person". She would often be with us when we are having a few tokes but it doesn't bother her. Even now, after i used joints to give up fags, I'm out for the first time in a while and not only do I not miss the joints but I have no craving whatsoever for even a fag. There is no physical addiction. There is no mental addiction outside of whatever the technical term is for enjoying something.

Drive: Any wasters I know were wasters before they smoked.

Gateway: The correlation is due to the fact that the same guy sells all illegal drugs.

Prohibition: As long as we cannot keep drugs out of a 8x8 cell surrounded by guards, then there is no way that prohibition can effectively work. As it stands its only effect is to drive those with mental issues towards drugs (self destructive outlet) and to start the distribution chain at school level. I remember the easiest time of my life to get some smoke was in school off my class mates.

Not looking for drug induced disorders at all. Just looking for the numbers suffering from ailments which it has been claimed are a result of hash. Either we are better or worse than holland. If we are worse, then it is fair to say there is no link between smoke, or the availability thereof, and the mental disorders.
Have you access to those figures?

OK I see where you going with the coke, and I would have agree with you on the obesity side of things.

The psychosis thing does occur it not just myth, I don't think its going to happen to everyone, but it does happen, and believe me its not pretty.

The addiction side, I have been saying for years that some of my more interesting work is done with those who only use hash. Does that mean I think everone will become addicted no. My partners 18 year old smokes, I hate the fact that he uses it. I know he has been using it for a few years, I have spoken to him numerous time about the dangers of it on his mental life, but also his lifestyle. Here I mean I found he had hidden two ozs of grass out her back garden for a friend. I wouldn't give it back until the owner came to me to ask for it in person then tore the bollocks off him for it. I fear it may cause him problems later on, but apart from advise what can you do.

I describe it as an insidious addiction because the people I see only realise how it has them by the balls when they try to stop. The came for various issues, maybe a possession charge, associated depression or anxiety or the more serious side paranoia or delusions.

I agree with you about the prohibition, I do some work in the various prisons its a joke. They are trying harder I even have to go pass the dog. I have no problem with that, as some idiot who worked in an addiction project was caught trying to pass stuff a few years ago. I would have no problem with a set up like Holland here, but it still would not atler my viewpoint. However, I do hate to see people get convictions that will alter their life over a simple possession charge.

As withdrawal people would report stuff like craving, panic, inability to focus, irritability, mood swings, insomia, inability to relax, this can range form quite mild to actually quite severe. That just pulling stuff off the top of my head, its not like I have case notes here. There is enjoying something and then there is something else. Addiction revolves around enjoyment, whether its alcohol, drugs, food or if you buy into the theories of sex, shopping addictions, the list can just go on.

On the figures side I don't know if they exist for Ireland, they might but I doubt it. The HSE isn't that co-ordinated.

mardybumbum

liah wrote: »

Stuff here gives a bad buzz and makes you paranoid and sick half the time. Try good, proper, pure weed, not mixed with anything, and then put in your two cents.

Perhaps thats just the way you react to it???
I have never had a "bad buzz".
The stuff I used to get was excellent.

g5fd6ow0hseima

Odysseus wrote: »

The psychosis thing does occur it not just myth, I don't think its going to happen to everyone, but it does happen, and believe me its not pretty.

Yeah, it exists alright, but in my opinion it only happens people who take the piss. I know of a man in my hometown who recently developed 'wet brain' as its popularly known, or not. But this man drank the stomach of himself for quite a few decades. It wasnt like he walked into a pub for a nice pint and BANG.... it was solely a culmination of years of sheer abuse.

I reckon I would have to be going through nearly an ounce a week for a few years before Id develop any complex about getting such an ailment. Those who fall victim to it are people who just spend their days sparking up.... uber potheads I suppose id call them. Prove me wrong though if you can..... Tell me it happens to people who have smoked **** all in their lives!

Odysseus

Boggle wrote: »

You saw this? Thats not right and pretty fits in with the underlying mental issues as I said.

They need a. KICK. UP. THE. ARSE.

Okay, but how do you get to meet them? I mean nobody goes for treatment cos their lazy so why do you get to meet them.

I see alot of stuff that fit into the "and the patient also smokes" category but no indication of causation...

I worked with this guy for nearly two years, I was never beside him when he smoked, but the effects would last a days/weeks each episode, then clear once he stopped.

Well as I point outed earlier the classification system ICD-10 is far from perfect. But that's the classification he would fit into;
No symptom when not using.
Symptoms when using.
Age can sometimes be a factor to be considered.eg. 75% of those with schiziphrenia will show symptoms before 25 yrs and its very rare to show no symptoms before 40.
A full history to establish whether any symptoms where present before use.
A general rule is that a drug induced disorder will resolve itself after six months with no further use. Therefore if symptoms occur after that it is generally not considered drug induced.

Its not a case of saying ah he taking drugs therefore they are causing it. Alot of dual diagnosis patients wouldn't be diagnosed as having an induced disorder.

I can't understand the kick up the hole viewpoint, but to be fair if the make it to my clinic, they need a bit more than that.

I get people referred by the mental health services, courts, GPs, family, self referrals too.

You won't find anything around causation in the likes of the ICD and DSM as the are only for diagnosis. As there are so many theories around causation they avoid that area in an attempt to stay impartial.

Oh and the offical drug induced diagnosis is made way above my pay grade, you are generally speaking about a consulant psychiatrist making the call.

Boggle

On the figures side I don't know if they exist for Ireland, they might but I doubt it. The HSE isn't that co-ordinated.

I'd be happy with the figures for the UK vs Holland if I could get them. (though them brits be soft so they do:p) All I know is there's plenty of opposition to decriminalisation in holland and if they could use the mental health numbers to bolster their case they certainly would have.

The psychosis thing does occur it not just myth, I don't think its going to happen to everyone, but it does happen, and believe me its not pretty.

Again, not saying it never happens. However, I would ask is it an underlying condition or was it caused (distinct to triggered) by the smoke. But with all the people who I know and are long term smokers, I have never met one person who had an attack. So does it happen? Maybe, but the incidence must be in the sub percentile regions or I would have heard of it happening.

I describe it as an insidious addiction because the people I see only realise how it has them by the balls when they try to stop. The came for various issues, maybe a possession charge, associated depression or anxiety or the more serious side paranoia or delusions.

Getting clearer now. Answer a question: How many people claim addiction to get a reduced sentence? How many of them are exaggerating effects as an excuse? How many of these guys would also partake in other drugs?

AND - how many of these guys were smoking good quality stuff? How do you know that they aren't actually suffering from the **** that was mixed with the hash? I had a half months ago which was so sh1t I had to throw it away cos I did really feel weird the next day and it didn't get me stoned AT ALL - just pseudo stoned (sleepy).

Anyway you look at it, I can only see one way to deal with cannabis and thats to treat people like adults and stop the problems through education.

Odysseus

Julissa Delightful Memory wrote: »

Yeah, it exists alright, but in my opinion it only happens people who take the piss. I know of a man in my hometown who recently developed 'wet brain' as its popularly known, or not. But this man drank the stomach of himself for quite a few decades. It wasnt like he walked into a pub for a nice pint and BANG.... it was solely a culmination of years of sheer abuse.

I reckon I would have to be going through nearly an ounce a week for a few years before Id develop any complex about getting such an ailment. Those who fall victim to it are people who just spend their days sparking up.... uber potheads I suppose id call them. Prove me wrong though if you can..... Tell me it happens to people who have smoked **** all in their lives!

Thankfully I said in one of my fist posts that I wouldn't consider myself an expert. However, you are taking about two different drugs here, alcohol in my understanding takes a long to have serious effects. I have treated people in the 20s with serious drug induced problems though.

Its like trying to compare alcohol with opiates you see lots of old alcoholics but very few old heroin users. The effects and the lifestyles are totally different.

However, its a valid point if you up the quanity I would say you up the risk.

You also make a valid point when you ask me to prove you wrong, I have never seen anyone who had a serious adverse reaction the first time they used something. However, on that basis I wouldn't rule it out. Whereas some of the discussion here is based on that premise, is it not? It never happen to me/anyone I know, therefore its untrue.

Eire-Dearg

cedomination wrote: »

Never have and never will.

Ditto, I'll probably never touch the stuff.

Prof.Badass

1. 72-90% of schizophrenics use tobacco.

2. Schizophrenia has been linked with dopamine supersensitivity.

3. Nicotine has been scientifically proven to sensitize the dopamine sysytem for months after it's administration.

Now if you ask does nicotine cause schizophrenia "experts" might point towards a possible self medication.

But wait a minute, people also jump on the self-medication argument with cannabis :rolleyes:.


tobacco; 3-4 times more likely.
cannabis; 2 times more likely.

Not only that but there's actually a neurologically based argument to support the former.

......Only the daily mail doesn't hate tobacco as much as cannabis .

Do i think cannabis causes long term chemical imbalances in the brain that lead to schizophrenia? No,

But if you're already having unwanted/delusional thoughts taking something that lets your thoughts flow more freely would probably not the the best of ideas.

ScumLord

Odysseus wrote: »

At a guess I would be saying its higher than 10%

I don't know, more than one in ten? I know at least 50 smokers and have yet to meet a person affected like that.

rantyface wrote: »

I think ayone who's tried bad hash in bad company knows it can bring on intense paranoia, but it's transient.

It's amazing how paranoia is such a non-issue in Amsterdam. Most the paranoia I've ever had was completely related to cops bursting in my door.

Odysseus wrote: »

I describe it as an insidious addiction because the people I see only realise how it has them by the balls when they try to stop.

I'll give you that one. It's such an easy drug to use you can really over do it without suffering to many serious side affects, next thing you know you haven't seen your friends in days and you've missed a week in work. You don't get much of a hangover or mood swings. Being from the country I'm forced to stop by droughts every so often and I have no major withdrawals. I get bored and would love a spliff but won't be chomping at the bit willing to do anything for a spliff. I won't even pay the higher prices anymore.

But everyones different I suppose, I seem to have very different reactions to drugs than other people. I know people that won't touch cannabis because they say it has really bad effects on them and they start seeing things.

It's up to each individual to know their limits though.

g5fd6ow0hseima

Odysseus wrote: »

Thankfully I said in one of my fist posts that I wouldn't consider myself an expert. However, you are taking about two different drugs here, alcohol in my understanding takes a long to have serious effects. I have treated people in the 20s with serious drug induced problems though.

Its like trying to compare alcohol with opiates you see lots of old alcoholics but very few old heroin users. The effects and the lifestyles are totally different.

However, its a valid point if you up the quanity I would say you up the risk.

You also make a valid point when you ask me to prove you wrong, I have never seen anyone who had a serious adverse reaction the first time they used something. However, on that basis I wouldn't rule it out. Whereas some of the discussion here is based on that premise, is it not? It never happen to me/anyone I know, therefore its untrue.

Being honest, I know nothing about Marijuana Psychosis, my thoughts on it are derived from a discussion I had with a long time alcoholic about 'wet brain', the few cases he knew of were all people who drank for decades. So what my point is that - in order for someone to induce that much alcohol / cannabis over the years to warrant that ailment, its an underlying mental problem which makes them choose to do so. They clearly have an underlying mental problem, they cant walk away, or keep their usage to social norms, they have to keep going and back. Reliance is not a result of the drug use in my opinion, its due to a lack of something in their psyche. Why do they turn to it in their first place? Escapism form what?

I feel it is wrong to blame cannabis, or any drug for that matter. Drugs dont screw anyone up, people screw themselves up

g5fd6ow0hseima

ScumLord wrote: »

It's amazing how paranoia is such a non-issue in Amsterdam.

Exactly, and when anyone is smoking in Amsterdam, its usually without any tobacco, and you know what strain your getting. Your surroundings have a lot to do with it. People going over to Amsterdam arrive in an excited, good mood. I feel its all about your state of mind / company / surroundings. Cannabis just exacerbated thought, whether it be good or bad.

Smoking in Amsterdam / Smoking in a back garden of a drunken house party:

Which would I get paranoid at?

Odysseus

Boggle wrote: »

I'd be happy with the figures for the UK vs Holland if I could get them. (though them brits be soft so they do:p) All I know is there's plenty of opposition to decriminalisation in holland and if they could use the mental health numbers to bolster their case they certainly would have.

Again, not saying it never happens. However, I would ask is it an underlying condition or was it caused (distinct to triggered) by the smoke. But with all the people who I know and are long term smokers, I have never met one person who had an attack. So does it happen? Maybe, but the incidence must be in the sub percentile regions or I would have heard of it happening.

Getting clearer now. Answer a question: How many people claim addiction to get a reduced sentence? How many of them are exaggerating effects as an excuse? How many of these guys would also partake in other drugs?

AND - how many of these guys were smoking good quality stuff? How do you know that they aren't actually suffering from the **** that was mixed with the hash? I had a half months ago which was so sh1t I had to throw it away cos I did really feel weird the next day and it didn't get me stoned AT ALL - just pseudo stoned (sleepy).

Anyway you look at it, I can only see one way to deal with cannabis and thats to treat people like adults and stop the problems through education.

Actually with hash clients I don't think I have written a court report for quite a while. I see your point but its a common reason for people presenting for any drug. So I wouldn't really rate that one, as most treatment workers are wide to court reports. In most cases here I have only been referring to those who present with no other drug use. That's why I have been using the words hash only to try avoid that confusion.



Well that the problem with any illicit drug use, unless you have a sample and the facilities to analyse it you never know exactly what the person has taken. Anybody who has worked with any type of induced disorder will openly admit the its a very difficult call to make, it very difficult to make that call and be 100% about it if your really honest and open about it.

Its like anything else, you have to made to best attempt you can on the evidence in front of you at that time, and make your call. If at a later stage something new comes to light, you take that into consideration and adapt accordingly.

Its the same with the opposite view-point, I have been saying all along that nobody has the ultimate truth on this, I have been stating the case for the negative effects, but not denying the fact that not everybody experience these. If you have no room for doubt you will never learn anything, why would you if your certain that you are right. Its entrenched viewpoint on either side that cause the problems.

Odysseus

Julissa Delightful Memory wrote: »

Being honest, I know nothing about Marijuana Psychosis, my thoughts on it are derived from a discussion I had with a long time alcoholic about 'wet brain', the few cases he knew of were all people who drank for decades. So what my point is that - in order for someone to induce that much alcohol / cannabis over the years to warrant that ailment, its an underlying mental problem which makes them choose to do so. They clearly have an underlying mental problem, they cant walk away, or keep their usage to social norms, they have to keep going and back. Reliance is not a result of the drug use in my opinion, its due to a lack of something in their psyche. Why do they turn to it in their first place? Escapism form what?

I feel it is wrong to blame cannabis, or any drug for that matter. Drugs dont screw anyone up, people screw themselves up

Could that disorder/mental issue be addiction? That what a lot of this discussion has been about.

DublinWriter

Trying to remember the number for Dominos right now...

...nah seriously kids, drugs are bad m'kay?

HouseHippo

There will always be two types of people in this arguement

The Weed smokers/former smokers who believe that its not nearly as bad as alcohol and used in moderaton is quite fun.

Then there are those that believe that it causes seriuos mental problems and is highly addictive despite what is said and it being legal in many countries and even the staple of a religion. I find most of these people haven't actually used the drug or used it too much.

What side I lie on is neither really. I do smoke, quite a bit but not all the time. I'm never gasping for a joint it never gets in the way of my every day activities, i never put myself in debt just to have a bit.
I beleive alcohol and cigarettes are much worse and a hell of alot more addictive, and what is worse is that its socially acceptable to be addicted to cigarette.
But of course like every other drug, if used in excess its bound to have harmful consequences just like alcohol and even food!
I'd much rather,personally for my kids to go chill out with a few j's and a bitta led zep than go out to some disco get pissed on a naggin, sleep with guys or get arrested or raped or injured....I have never made any serious feck ups when stoned but have acted like a right eejit when drunk...But thats just my opinion

liah

mardybumbum wrote: »

Perhaps thats just the way you react to it???
I have never had a "bad buzz".
The stuff I used to get was excellent.

I don't react poorly to the weed here. It just does nothing for me, nothing like the wonderful mellow giddy happy buzz I get from the stuff back home. But most of the people I talk to won't smoke it because it makes them paranoid, which I'd never even heard of as a side affect from people back home.