Is it ok to kill a butterfly in the name of art?

humberklog

This question popped up in the last few days.
I've been doing some interactive shoots with roadkills and the people involved were very helpful and up for anything. Artistic and helpful kinda folks. Job jobbed. The talk in the evening turned to what we had in mind for future shoots and I aired an idea that I've had the imagery of in my mind for quite sometime. It involves butterflies but alas the butterfly wouldn't survive the shoot.

This was met with quite vociferous negativity and I was rather surprised. I thought that either my view is way off the mark or the people I was talking to was very off the mark.

Is it ok to kill a butterfly?

Jimmy the Weed

Certainly.

ZappaFrank

Have you ever seen Damien Hirsts Faithless? Amazing piece of work, alot of butterflies had to die.

I'd say it's ok to use a butterfly thats common, a rare butterfly would be a no no!

humberklog

I'd forgotten all about DH's one. But have been recently reminded.

Thankfully it doesn't resemble DH's work. I did get a bit of a panic on when I was reminded though.

AnimalRights

NO

OK-Cancel-Apply

We share the planet with all kinds of life. I believe animals should be left alone as much as possible.

Mycroft H

NO its certainily not aloud, in fact its illegal to kill some certain species under the wildlife act.

An animal friendy way of photograpging is to get up at sunrise, when there warming themselves in the sun and they will stay still enough to take a photo.

another friendly way is to put the butterfly in the fridge for 1/2 an hour. this will lower their body temp so they will remain quite still when you put them on a flower or a leaf as they will have to warm up before they move

Ricky91t

AnimalRights wrote: »

NO

landyman wrote: »

NO its certainily not aloud, in fact its illegal to kill some certain species under the wildlife act.

An animal friendy way of photograpging is to get up at sunrise, when there warming themselves in the sun and they will stay still enough to take a photo.

another friendly way is to put the butterfly in the fridge for 1/2 an hour. this will lower their body temp so they will remain quite still when you put them on a flower or a leaf as they will have to warm up before they move

Gotta' agree with the above,I'm sure you wouldn't like to be killed in the name of art,Find some dead ones,If not then you'll have to get artificial ones or something...

Fajitas!

Era, it's only a butterfly...





*runs*

kumate_champ07

Fajitas! wrote: »

Era, it's only a butterfly...





*runs*

ever heard of the butterfly effect? (not the movie)

Fajitas!

Yes, which in itself could become a fascinating work of art...

If Humberklog successfully proves or disproves the butterfly effect through use of a photographic study, I'll;

A) Put him forward for the Turner Award...

Let him have at it with another butterfly...

AnCatDubh

Like many things in life you need to ask yourself is it necessary or is it indulgent? (needs v wants)

I can't personally comprehend how killing of a butterfly would be necessary so i'd say that the killing of a butterfly for art is purely indulgent and therefore a big no from me too - this coming from a guy who has a jam jar which the kids catch flies that are plaguing the house in this hot and wet weather, and release them in the far corner of the garden - fly paper is disgusting and insect spray is vile - neither of them necessary while I have a large jam jar available and kids to do the running

(recommendation - the larger the jam jar the better folks, it's working a treat)

I think its good that it is something you consider rather than just do it and not think about it.

padocon

humberklog wrote: »

This question popped up in the last few days.
I've been doing some interactive shoots with roadkills and the people involved were very helpful and up for anything. Artistic and helpful kinda folks. Job jobbed. The talk in the evening turned to what we had in mind for future shoots and I aired an idea that I've had the imagery of in my mind for quite sometime. It involves butterflies but alas the butterfly wouldn't survive the shoot.

This was met with quite vociferous negativity and I was rather surprised. I thought that either my view is way off the mark or the people I was talking to was very off the mark.

Is it ok to kill a butterfly?

How is a photo-shoot going to kill the butterfly?

Hagar

Yes, if you can make another one one to replace it.

kumate_champ07

padocon wrote: »

How is a photo-shoot going to kill the butterfly?

feeding it to a spider?

Liathroidi Dana

I'm guessing most of us have at one stage killed another creature, be it a insect of a bird or something.

I think you have to ask yourself is there any way you could do the shot without killing the butterfly and if not, in what way is the butterfly going to die because of the shoot.

Capt'n Midnight

How many species are endangered because of collectors ?

ThOnda

AnimalRights wrote: »

NO

I do agree with AR - there is nothing wrong with a killing butterfly if there is higher purpose in it, like creating a message that will prevent even if only one accident, prevent one injury, saves one (even my or AR's) life.

pete4130

I say yes, just because the controversial nature of this thread will make your butterfly execution image pseudo famous.

Exeptions to endangered species etc omitted.

MooseJam

There's a lot of speciesism here - some people will be aghast at killing a butterfly just because they flutter around and are colourful, while at the same time swatting a fly, it's not the fly's fault they are not beautiful

challengemaster

Can you not kill a few spiders instead? fcúking hate those things!!

Ricky91t

challengemaster wrote: »

Can you not kill a few spiders instead? fcúking hate those things!!

A common cause of arachnophobia is cause spiders have eight legs...They're harmless really,I've been bitten by a normal sized house spider(i may of provoked it) and i'm still here to tell the tale

challengemaster

Ricky91t wrote: »

A common cause of arachnophobia is cause spiders have eight legs...They're harmless really,I've been bitten by a normal sized house spider(i may of provoked it) and i'm still here to tell the tale

A uncommon cause of arachnophobia is when you're 13 (gone by yourself) in the USA, you and your cousins decide during a trip to a zoo type thing, to wander around the cages. Whilst doing so, you somehow end up at the back of the cages where there's about 2ft of a gap between the cage and a forest.

To get through, requires you to duck and dodge hundreds of spiderwebs and spiders, and as you're passing under one particular web with 7+ of one of texas' more venomous spiders sitting on it, your older cousin decides to tell you this fact, and what lovely effects the venom can have on you.

To make matters worse, when you finally get out to the other side, there is but a single spider sitting in your hair, which although isn't as bad as the others, is still enough to freak you the fcuk out.

Also, it was one of these B****rds



*panics even looking at picture*

kumate_champ07

MooseJam wrote: »

There's a lot of speciesism here - some people will be aghast at killing a butterfly just because they flutter around and are colourful, while at the same time swatting a fly, it's not the fly's fault they are not beautiful

flies are beautiful.

padocon

The difference is flies land on sh1t & butterflies don't.
I must say noise of blue bottles drives me mad! I don't really mind silent flies.

AnimalRights

MooseJam wrote: »

There's a lot of speciesism here - some people will be aghast at killing a butterfly just because they flutter around and are colourful, while at the same time swatting a fly, it's not the fly's fault they are not beautiful

I don't kill Flys.

padocon

AnimalRights wrote: »

I don't kill Flys.

Likewise.

veryrandom

Aw man, that just seems mean. I mean theres worse things to kill, obviously but still, tho u could just argue its just a moth and u kill them all the time...tough call....

AnimalRights

I don't kill Moths.

vectra

padocon wrote: »

How is a photo-shoot going to kill the butterfly?

Use a shotgun instead of a camera ?

jaffa20

AnimalRights wrote: »

I don't kill Moths.

Do you kill ants or other insects when you walk on the ground

Sweet dreams!;)

padocon

Can you not just photo one in its natural environment?

Fenster

Your answers to these questions will help guide you to a decision:

Do you secretly rail against all of the injustices the world piles upon your undeserving shoulders, day after day?

In your own words, how maniacal would you describe your laughter as you euthanize a butterfly?

Mum, mummy or mother?

Do you live with your family? If so, is your dwelling a single room, or a spacious converted attic/basement suite? Please be descriptive.

Would you consider art to be a justification for an act, in and of itself? Be verbose.

Fenster

vectra wrote: »

Use a shotgun instead of a camera ?

Depends on how close you get. *squish*

Nothingcompares

Unless the butterfly is specifically a protected species it isn't illegal to kill invertebrates in ireland without a licence. Although a animal lover as much as the next person and I respect the fundamental right of all living organisms to live (within reason) I'm more concerned with the protection of species over the protection of individuals.

While I would consider it highly <snip> to gratutitously kill animals for nonsense reasons such as art I wouldn't lose any sleep if you killed a common butterfly, or snail or ant or bee etc. However, I'd stick like to see the details, surely you'd need loads of butterflies, because it would take loads of shots to get that perfect shot. Presumably they'd all have to die in the process.

I can't understand in the slightest how killing something inspires art in you but I'm not going to waste my breath trying to sound holier than though.

Nforce

AnimalRights

jaffa20 wrote: »

Do you kill ants or other insects when you walk on the ground

Sweet dreams!;)

I'm sure I do but not as many as if I didn't watch where I was walking.

and what's with the sweet dreams ****? You have your ways and I have my ways. :rolleyes:

Cabaal

I don't believe its ok to kill a butterfly,

dlofnep

How does killing a butterfly constitute as art? Can't you just draw a picture? I'll give you some crayolas.

vectra

AnimalRights wrote: »

I don't kill Flys.

padocon wrote: »

Likewise.

AnimalRights wrote: »

I don't kill Moths.

Not even while driving your car during a summer evening?? :rolleyes:

humberklog

dlofnep wrote: »

How does killing a butterfly constitute as art? Can't you just draw a picture? I'll give you some crayolas.

Don't really want to get into the whole "what constitute art" debate. All my opinion on it is is that if it floats your boat in an Artyfarty way; then it's art.
Not really my medium tbh. I like a sketch and a doodle as much as any man and the artwork for one of my album covers was indeed a hand drawn sketch. But that's the medium I wanted for that particular piece. Photography is the medium I'd like to use for the butterfly.

With the idea I have in mind the butterfly would definately not survive and it would probably take a handful of them to get it right.

I have killed quite a number of different animals of the years. This little fella just last week...

He wasn't killed for survival but for entertainment (and a delish supper) and he did find his way into a few photos of an artistic nature before ending up on the pan.
But a butterfly is different. There has been about 80% negative feedback so far from people that I've asked and the fish gained zero empathy.
Perhaps if I do do the shoot I'll more than likely keep the photos not for general release.

humberklog

Fenster wrote: »

Do you secretly rail against all of the injustices the world piles upon your undeserving shoulders, day after day?
No, I deserve everything the feckers throw at me.

In your own words, how maniacal would you describe your laughter as you euthanize a butterfly?
No laughing as drawing pins, staplers and live beasts require a steady hand.

Mum, mummy or mother?
Ma

Do you live with your family?
If so, is your dwelling a single room, or a spacious converted attic/basement suite? Please be descriptive.
No, I dwell in big apartments with my daughter.

Would you consider art to be a justification for an act, in and of itself? Be verbose.
Yes to the question and no to the instruction.

Fajitas!

dlofnep wrote: »

How does killing a butterfly constitute as art? Can't you just draw a picture? I'll give you some crayolas.

No, there's a big difference, and not only in medium - What if the butterfly's death is essential in the creation of the art?

padocon

vectra wrote: »

Not even while driving your car during a summer evening?? :rolleyes:

Flies don't really annoy me. Its bluebottles & normally if one comes in if you open the window he just goes out.

Paparazzo

MooseJam wrote: »

There's a lot of speciesism here - some people will be aghast at killing a butterfly just because they flutter around and are colourful, while at the same time swatting a fly, it's not the fly's fault they are not beautiful

+1

AnimalRights wrote: »

I don't kill Flys.

Is it ok to kill bacteria?:D

ThOnda

We are talking about creating art, not killing for the pleasure of killing. And in fairness, it won't be killing, just "shortening the lifespan of one insect".
I bet that after finishing the shoot, the dead butterfly will go back to the nature to provide it's main and essential purpose.

FFS, we are talking about one butterfly, not about a village of people. Get real, more people get killed by drivers every year than butterflies for photography purposes!

humberklog

Fajitas! wrote: »

No, there's a big difference, and not only in medium - What if the butterfly's death is essential in the creation of the art?

The death is less essential and more inevitable. But the death too will add to the weight of the piece.

Silverfish

humberklog wrote: »

The death is less essential and more inevitable. But the death too will add to the weight of the piece.

Art needs controversy.

humberklog

Silverfish wrote: »

Art needs controversy.

Don'tb really hold with that idea myself.

ThOnda

Just watch Art School Confidential :pac:

Silverfish

humberklog wrote: »

Don'tb really hold with that idea myself.

Okay then, in order to not be controversial at all, you'll have to not kill the butterfly.In starting this thread to discuss this, you knew it was controversial, if you didn't, you would have just gone on your way, did the thing, and posted it later.


The most talked about art in the last few years has always had some form of controversy. Its the only way to rise above the 'pretty' paintings and the 'nice' art, and get the crowds in - dead bodies, starving dogs, unwashed beds. The fact you consider killing a butterfly for a photo is in line with this, in my opinion.

Personally I'd be very very excited to see what you have planned and how it will look.