Photographer snobbery (rant warning)

Perfect fit

Something has been really pissing me off lately and i was wondering if anyone else has experienced similar!

Basically i love photos, love talking to people that love taking photos, love to have a chat about what equipment your using etc at whatever events.

I've been to a number of events recently and what i have experienced can only be known as photographer snobbery. Im 22, i look probably about 18, i have professional equipment, i always dress accordingly, act professionally and be polite, but i don't see the need for especially older photographers to look down there nose at others.

I will give some examples, recently i was covering horse racing in the curragh, it was about 20 minutes before the start of the next race and i was leaning against the barrier talking to an elderly gentleman (also leaning against the fence) obviously i was going to move to my position well in advance of the race, when i get what can only be described as a punch in the shoulder from another tog mid 30s or so who proceeded to say completely out of the blue "don't you dare f**kin stand there during the race your in my f*kin way if you stand there" i said yes i know i am standing the other side of the track to what he said "i don't really give a f**k where you are once your not in my way!" The man i was talking to was as shocked as i was. There was a younger girl on the other side of the track also not in anyones way, somewhere we were allowed go and this "gentleman" tried to get security to remove her because she might get in his way.

I was at a parade yesterday in my home town taking some snaps for my local gaa club as they requested. it was on the main street, i went up got myself a decent location behind the barrier and waited. there was another photographer standing across the road from me who was eyeballing me for a good half hour before he marches across the road and says can i see your accredation, i said excuse, i honestly thought id heard him wrong, looked up and down the street at the 5000 or so people with cameras camcorders etc. He then said i wasn't allowed take photos, in a public place! come on now in fairness! he then tried stand in my way for every single shot purely out of spite.

Also at a GAA match for the same club and a local press photographer was there. I tried to strike up polite banter about the match he completely blanked me, then said are you being paid to be here, which i wasn't... so he replied well some of us are good enough to make a living out of this and walked off.....F**kin ahole! He has never seen any of my work, doesnt even know my name, but can automatically make such a judgemental comment.

Friends of mine have also experienced the same type of scenarios, it feels like when at an event like its a competition against all the other photographers, instead of just getting on with it, being polite and enjoying what there doing instead of being complete w**nkers!

Now i understand that it can be competitive but there's being competitive and then there's taking the piss. Thank god none of the bad experiences have been boardsies(i think). Ive been at events eg prodrift myself and kensutz were showing images to each other and saw some of his and thought damn you have to try beat that but not delib stand in his way or make comments or be abusive.

Rant over, sorry its so long :pac:Please tell me im not alone :pac:

Fajitas!

Happens all over. Just smile back at them. They're jealous of your youth.

Paddy@CIRL

They're just bitter they'll never be anything better than hacks. Fair play to you for having patience because I would of breaking something off his / their head(s). Like yourself, I'm always polite and try to engage a bit of friendly banter and chat with any other photographers.

Unfortunately, some people are just w*nkers.

Latchy

I can understand your frustration OP .

I have taken my camera to premership football grounds and never had that problem ,in fact was encouraged by stewards to take pics near the front of seating area

Lets hope the iggnorent fcuker who told you to '' not to blank his view '' tries to take a pic of a celeb and the celeb twats him one in the gob .

Simplicius

Sadly I think this is similar to the mentality of some Taxi Drivers, who believe they own the road because they make a living from it, the ones you have met seem to have a photography version of this.

I personally have never had such an experience... I would just tell them where to go in future with what ever level of language you are comfortable using.

Perfect fit

Oh id love to just hit them with a nice right hook but i wouldnt stoop to there level or belittle myself or put my professionalism at stake. I do this for a living now too but i just dont feel the need like them f**kers to go oooh im a professional fulltime photographer didnt you know now i shall look down at you threw my monocil:pac:

ThOnda

It is more their insecurity. I had only few opportunities to be in a place with more professional photographers and it was always enjoyable and in good manner. They even gave me some advice on locations, viewpoints and angles.
Pen and paper is your best friend in such occasions, ask them to provide you with their names, accreditations and whom they work for. We live in electronic age, but paper has still some power.*

(* - tested on humans)

Fajitas!

ThOnda wrote: »

It is more their insecurity. I had only few opportunities to be in a place with more professional photographers and it was always enjoyable and in good manner. They even gave me some advice on locations, viewpoints and angles.
Pen and paper is your best friend in such occasions, ask them to provide you with their names, accreditations and whom they work for. We live in electronic age, but paper has still some power.*

(* - tested on humans)

Ha! If there's one way of putting the sh*ts up someone, it's asking their name and employer, and taking out a notebook to jot it into.

Crispin

Never experineced anything like it (thank god). They sound like c*nts!

The fact that you have "professional equipment" and act accordingly should by no means buy you into any special "photographers club" anyway! If you stood in front of them with a disposable camera they have no right to behave like that.

In future tell them where to go

sineadw

Actually,that was me...

Kidding

I'm with Thonda - ask them for their credentials... feckin eejits. Although you get feckin eejits in all walks. Yep - tell them where to go.

Silverfish

What you do is, when they say anything, say 'Oh really? That lad over there said he wouldn't trust you to snap a 3 year old's birthday party'.

While they punch it out, you photograph away happily.


I haven't experienced this yet, but after this and Trev's thread, I'm not looking forward to it. But I'll never look pro at it at all so I'm no threat to anyone.

iceax

nicely said ,

AnCatDubh

You seem to have met more than your fair share of them. Not pleasant.

AnimalRights

I look forward to the day when a fellow Photographer would utter snobbery gibberish to me.

Ricky91t

Yeah i've had this issue on a few occasions,It used to bother me,But now it doesn't..

Also,I find press photographers the most amusing,

I'll tell me story,I was asked to teach classes to people of my age on general things with cameras last year,I turned it down because I was nowhere near happy with my knowledge to be teaching others,So I was asked to sit in on them,Help if I could and just get used to the whole thing.

The "tutor" was a local paper photographer,She already knew why I was there and was happy with it,She then asked me to bring in some photos and I did,She liked them,The plan was to have an exhibition in a local café she said I could put in some photos and I did.

The next week I was taking photos for the racing club I shoot for,For a rider memorial the club then sends these to the local paper,to get their name out there.The photographer was also there,When she arrived she didn't even say Hello,I took no notice,When she starts taking photos she turns round to me and says she'd rather I took none just in case they were printed in the other local paper,I agreed as I didn't want the same kind of photo in it anyway,So I slightly re arranged the family,Just as I was going to take the photo,She goes "No!I mean totally different,You know there's issues with copyright and stuff" With that she started moving everybody out of the shot,So it would be different when I took it.

I took no notice of this,But she obviously felt differently,I spoke to one of the people who was also in the photography classes and he asked was I going to the exhibition,I said I didn't even know it was on,Strangely enough she forgot to ring me,Yet she phoned me on previous occasions asking me to open and set up the room etc,I found it all quite funny

Had another issue with another paper photographer but I've posted that before,All in all,They don't really like me :pac:

Perfect fit

AnCatDubh wrote: »

You seem to have met more than your fair share of them. Not pleasant.

In the past 3 weeks:o

AnCatDubh

AnimalRights wrote: »

I look forward to the day when a fellow Photographer would utter snobbery gibberish to me.

I hope i'm there to take a picture of the resulting scene

Fajitas!

AnimalRights wrote: »

I look forward to the day when a fellow Photographer would utter snobbery gibberish to me.

If I recognise you before you recognise me, I'll wind you up no end!

Borderfox

I had the very same sh**e at the races but I told them I would break their face if they ever talked to me like that again, seemed to do the job.

With regards to talking to people, I have plenty of time to talk to other people regardless of whether they are taking pictures or just standing around. Personally I see the bad mouthing as a sign of insecurity on their part. Dont be afraid to stand your ground, you are as entitled as they are to take pictures

Fenster

Storm in a teacup. I've had it happen to myself. My replies are typically unprintable.

Saint_Mel

Ah yes, I got the "Your depriving me of a living line" before from a tog when I was supplying photos at my Clubs request.

He also had a go at a sports editor of a local paper for depriving him of a living by taking some photos himself to use in his reports. The reply was something like, why would I fork out the €100 you charge for a shot when I can get it myself. Kinda put a halt to his gallop.

On the other hand I've met other togs at games who have been sound as a pouind, full of chat and give helpful advice etc

Cabaal

Many years ago (around late 80's) my dad was at a local political event using his Pentax SLR when he was approached by a lad who did work for the local paper.

The hack told him if he didn't put away his camera he (the photographer for the paper) would leave, given the situation my dad put his camera out in the car.

Now personally I wouldn't have but my dad wasn't too arsed and he was just taking photos at the event because he knew people at it he wasn't making a [penny of anything or submitting photos to anyone.

Some people have some neck!

CabanSail

Maybe the reply to an insecure tog who wants to know if you are acreditted is to say "No - I am a real photographer not a professional"

There are these sort of egotists in all walks of life. I recall being on Fraser Island & there had been a swimming accident which could have been a spinal injury. Paramedics were flown in to the scene in a Cessna 182. While they were treating the patient I went up to have a chat to the pilot. I should have been warned what he could be like as he was wearing the White Shirts with Eppilettes & RayBan shades. I explained that I was a Private Pilot & was interested in techniques for landing on a beach. I wanted to know how to pick where the sand was suitable for landing etc. This could be very valuable information if you were considering a forced landing near the coast. He turned to me & asked "Have you ever landed on a beach before?" I said I haven't, he then said "Well don't, you will just dig the nose into the sand" he then walked away. He thought he was being clever, I just thought he was an arrogant & egotistic %&$£*%.

homerun_homer

I was getting a bit of "Photo envy" the other night at an event I was shooting at. I'm amateur and so was this other lad, who I have spoken to at these events previously but he was making a few jokes which were sly digs. I just wanted to tell him his photos sucked but I was too polite for that.

rahtkennades

Saint_Mel wrote: »

Ah yes, I got the "Your depriving me of a living line" before from a tog when I was supplying photos at my Clubs request.

He also had a go at a sports editor of a local paper for depriving him of a living by taking some photos himself to use in his reports. The reply was something like, why would I fork out the €100 you charge for a shot when I can get it myself. Kinda put a halt to his gallop.

On the other hand I've met other togs at games who have been sound as a pouind, full of chat and give helpful advice etc

I think the two issues of rudeness and paid work need to be separated.

It's disgraceful to think that anybody would be so rude to anybody else, be they general public or other professionals. It'd be like truck drivers ramming each other every time they met because they were the competition.

But if it's somebody trying to defend their livelihood, that's a different matter. You mentiuoned the sports editor taking his own pictures to save money. Well firstly he/she is getting paid to be an editor, not a photographer, so the time used to take pictures was wasted from their job. Second, the editor can't be in all places at all times, which is why they employ people to take the pictures for them.
And thirdly, photography is a profession like any other. You wouldn't plumb your house to save money because you had once fitted a garden hose and reckoned you knew what you were doing. Skilled professionals are entitled to defend their income if it's being undermined by other people.

OP, I still think though you've had a bad run of it!

smelltheglove

I went to see my niece at a feish once, she won a trophy so I went up to take a picture of her on the stand in all her enjoyment. The photographer present stood in front of me, he did not say a word just completely blocked me. I got my shot anyway.

I went over later to see his shot of her, I was considering buying it for her mother as she was away on hols. I opened conversation with, along the lines of, 'thats some impressive gear, do you mind me asking what you use' and he turned his back on me, he said whilst back turned almost snarling, thats over 20k worth of equipment and not easy to come by. He then walked away.

I politely said I was interested in seeing a pic you took of my niece just there but dont bother I'll just use the one I took myself then.

In all honesty though, I left the place p'd off but then I thought come on, if I get to his age and I have to be up at 7 on a sat and sun morning to earn a living taking pics of 7 yr olds dancing in a gaa hall then I will think I havent worked hard enough, he may get good pay but I would aspire to more, you have to look at some of these and realise, they have reason to be a bit grumpy:D

Trojan911

Perfect fit wrote: »

:pac:Please tell me im not alone :pac:

Never experienced myself & I would put your experiences down to the insecurity of those rude people.

I know quite a few other photographers in Cork & we normally share tips. Some just come in do their shots and go others might hang out for a bit.

I would have no problem issuing a dose of "Foxtrot Oscar" pills to someone who is arrogant or rude to me, while still holding a smile.

mrboswell

I think you should have said "Oh I do make a living at this - I get paid to take photos of your mother naked....."

That would have shut him up!

bernard0368

I have only ever been in a position once where there have been paid photographers. I have to say that the three guys who were there went out of their way to ensure I got a couple of good shots. One even lent me his spare mark 1 to try.
Theres good and bad in us all.

trishw78

mrboswell wrote: »

I think you should have said "Oh I do make a living at this - I get paid to take photos of your mother naked....."

That would have shut him up!

... and the returning punch in the face you would have got would've shut you up. Smile and be nice to them back usually works best.

smash

About a year ago I helped organise an event in a Hotel and on the night I was taking pics when someone asked me who I was working for, I said nobody and continued on, but the guy wouldn't leave it - told me he didn't recognise me and he knows all the press photographers and wanted to know who I was going to sell the photos to. I just ignored him really and he walked away.

Top Dog

OP given your age I'd say it could be something as fundamentally simple as jealousy. You didn't mention the ages of the offenders, but I'm guessing they were quite a bit older than yourself, having taken years to get their equipment together, and when they see a 22 year old snapping away with fancy equipment (I'm only guessing after seeing your website) then the green eyed devil has visited them. You have the equipment, and you also have your youth standing for you.

True, you meet arrogant and egotistical people in all professions, but I personally think this particular thing just boils down to jealousy.

Ballyman

I think I know the particular people invloved and I have been on the receiving end of him also another time. He did apologise after the race was over though and explained his annoyance at people being allowed onto the track that have no reason to be there.

To be honest I would imagine it's livelihood protection and annoyance at the vast amount of togs that turn up at the big festivals and meetings especially new lads they haven't seen before.

Absolutely no excuse for his behaviour though.

kensutz

Event photography almost requires you to make sure you have every angle covered when you get approached by other "pros". I have a consistent run in with a photographer in Waterford and in the end I just turned around and told him how ****e he was. Sometimes it's a case of giving as good as you get but the trick is to have a fast and witty reply to them which leaves them speechless.

So far, luckily I haven't had any hassle from other photographers. I was at The Curragh on the Saturday and most of the lads were pretty sound given the fact I knew the lads from Sportsfile and Inpho. Other people there were happy to talk away to you too.

Put it down to an experience building exercise, always look confident and don't let their arrogance put you off.

Borderfox

Ballyman wrote: »

I think I know the particular people invloved and I have been on the receiving end of him also another time. He did apologise after the race was over though and explained his annoyance at people being allowed onto the track that have no reason to be there.

To be honest I would imagine it's livelihood protection and annoyance at the vast amount of togs that turn up at the big festivals and meetings especially new lads they haven't seen before.

Absolutely no excuse for his behaviour though.

TBH they have the market sown up and its pure greed on their part.

Paparazzo

It's nothing to do with photographer snobbery, the people in question are just assholes. No matter what job they do they'd probably be the same.

smash

Borderfox wrote: »

TBH they have the market sown up and its pure greed on their part.

Do you think a load of people should start hijacking the events these guys cover?

Fajitas!

steve06 wrote: »

Do you think a load of people should start hijacking the events these guys cover?

No, then you're as bad as they're making you out to be

Borderfox

Thats for sure Al

joolsveer

Ballyman wrote: »

....................
the vast amount of togs that turn up at the big festivals and meetings especially new lads they haven't seen before

I hadn't come across the word tog before and did a Google search which gave me

What is a TOG?
TOGs, also known as Terry's Old Geezers or Gals, listen and attempt tirelessly to feature on Wake Up To Wogan.

Togginess is a state of mind recognised by many, as that feeling of being old before your time. In this light, TOGs are famous for their fierce resentment of anybody younger than themselves reflected in exclamations such as 'They don't know they're born!' and 'Clear off, you young limb!'

Another tell-tale sign of a TOG is a flat cap and an inexplicable penchant for driving their Volvos in the centre lane of the motorway at 60mph. TOGs may also be recognised by their use of such arcane phrases as 'Is it me?', the self-pitying, 'I never saw a bar of chocolate until I was fourteen', the perplexed, 'Why did I come upstairs again?'

There is talk of a secret sign, known only to those who see it flashed, rather like some Bat-Signal, on the radio every morning. There is an even more secret Grand Master, or TOGmeister, sign always exchanged under cover of darkness, or the snug of a seedy eaterie near Broadcasting House, which is known only to Wogan himself, and the Duke of Kent.

Many covet the TOGs car stickers but then, once they receive them, get cold feet and hide them in the back of an upstairs drawer. Those brave enough to flaunt the sticker in their car windows pay a terrible price, not only in loss of face among nearest, dearest and the rest of the population, but in the trade-in value for the vehicle: the thing is impossible to remove.

The TOGs sweatshirt, which, like the car-sticker, is rarer than hen's teeth, bears the legend: 'Do I come here often?' - a tried and trusted TOG chat-up line. There was a strong ground-swell of opinion to have 'I stop for no particular reason' on the back, but it soon petered out.

Currently a movement is gathering strength to have the logos changed to 'It's never your fault' on the front and 'Mustn't grumble', on the back. It will come to nothing. They'll forget about it if you don't pay any attention. This condition is known to TOGs as a 'senior moment', a euphemism, to indicate a temporary loss of all marbles to anyone over 50…

TOGs feel a deep-seated need to form themselves into groups,clusters or tribes. Watch out for a gathering near you.

soccerc

Borderfox wrote: »

TBH they have the market sown up and its pure greed on their part.

Do they all wear company branded rain jackets?

Had a run in with one of them at Punchestown though in fairness his collegues apologised for his behaviour.

Fajitas!

Before this becomes a group of photographic vigilantes ( :pac: )...


The only real way of dealing with this is with a level head and professionalism, even if you're not a professional. Don't rise to their baits, don't abuse them back, don't start a fight, don't even bother with a dirty look. It'll give them something to say about you.

If you want to show them up, do so in your work (Even if you're not a professional). Provide better, more interesting photos, provide them faster, be professional and friendly. It'll do your name (And hopefully your wallet) wonders.

sineadw

But we could have costumes Al!

In all fairness in thinking about it I'd have to agree though - I was at a gig a while ago and another photog practically attacked me. I took the bait and gave out crap to her. Really wish I hadn't now - all it proved was that I was as bad as she was. Really irked me, but I should have just ignored her.

smash

Fajitas! wrote: »

Provide better, more interesting photos, provide them faster, be professional and friendly. It'll do your name (And hopefully your wallet) wonders.

Surely you need to make the contacts and agree prices before submitting photos.

Fajitas!

Who says you haven't?

Dragan

Everything i have ever tried to do, i met somebody who would look down their nose at pretty much everyone else, except for those small few that they felt provided better results than they did, which would then result in complete hero worship of these small choosen few.

The best way to deal with them is to ignore them, leave them under the direct impression that however big they are in their own head, in your universe they are as inconsiquential as a breeze.

Seriously, these fleeting meetings with morons should be ignored, because the people who instigate them desperately HATE being ignored.

A small thing like this is not going to affect the outcome of the day, they'll take their photos and you take yours.

minikin

I remember as a kid covering an event for my local gaa club, I was in the company of the local newspaper photograper when the club chairman commented that I had been busy all day, I said 'yeah, I got through five rolls of film'
The 'pro' smugly said he'd taken twice as many photographs... all i said was 'ah I'm more of a quality than a quality man'

Never seen someone get so embarrassed

On the other hand I can see how professional press photographers are having their livelihoods undermined by amateurs supplying pics for nothing... don't blame them for feeling put out but it's no excuse for being an grasshole about it.

LeoB

I asked one ignorant pig at the races if he ever tasted a Canon lens. After he snarnled in a very arrogant tone "who are you?" to which I replied "Postman Pat". I had my spot and was not moving. End of that story. I am a postman btw.

I have usually found them (Pro's) very nice. I was in Croke Park one day about 4 years ago and was just amazed at how they operated. One of them saw me looking and noticed I was a bit embarassed among the professionals with my film camera and my little 70-300. After a 2 or 3 minute chat and me explaining why I was there he let me take a few shots on what I described to my good wife as a machine gun.

I suppose as people have said the worst thing any of us can do is rise to the bait. I just keep back and let them do their JOB. For thoes of us who dont make a few bob (or dont want to) we should not get in their way to be fair.

humberklog

LeoB wrote: »

For thoes of us who dont make a few bob (or dont want to) we should not get in their way to be fair.

I don't hold for that at all (emboldened text or not). Amateur snappers (like me) have just as much right to do their thing even if that means some pro can't buy kippers for his brecky in the morning. Sod'm, he's livin' the dream. I'm just scrabbling about.
Get behind me satan (and anything bigger then a 70-300mm)

Must say though that I've seldom come across much snobbery or arrogance from those that are in fact there to take a photo.

Equipment eyeballers (those with no photographic ability other than to identify other people's equipment from a half mile away) on the other hand are my own pet hate.

Perfect fit

LeoB wrote: »

For thoes of us who dont make a few bob (or dont want to) we should not get in their way to be fair.[/B]

I dont agree with that at all, I wasnt being paid but my presence was more important to the club than his, the images were for them, he was paid by a local paper and had to be granted access by the club.

After speaking to the club director today me being the club photog i now have to grant/deny access to any apps that come threw lol thats a one up for me on that particular gentleman:p

Im quite happy i didnt go off the handle in reflection, i guess there comeupins eventually come in different forms!:D

Dragan

Look, a photog is a photog, you do what you do to get your shots.

If someone wants to think they are more entitled to places or spots because they are getting paid they are dreaming. They are already getting paid, i need to ensure quality work if i want a shot to be picked up. As such, unless there is a really valid reason ( such as security/safety) for me to not be somewhere then i'll be there.

If i am covering for free, what you are covering for money, that indicates my passion for photography and my will for improvement. If you want to think you are more important and worthy because you are getting paid, dream on, I want to be where you are and if you think i'm going to stand around on some kind of amateur to professional courtesy you are dreaming.

If my work can take your clients then your work wasn't good enough, same applies to anybody who ever snows me for client.

I'm very passionate about improving as a photographer, and i'll get the shots i need to get to do that. Simple as.

I think work speaks for itself, and will be rewarded. For example, once again this year i get to official cover the Kings of Concrete. I'll have a little green pass that allows me to stand on the danger side of the safety barriers and risk my equipment. Just like last year i'll let it known on boards that if anyone spots me on the day to give me a shout, and if there is an angle you want behind the barriers i'll accompany you for a short time so you can get your shot.

I see my role as being to make sure the Kings of Concrete is covered to the best possible level, the more people i help to get good shots, the more good shots the organisers have. I could sit on my "official status" and do my best to shut down all photos but mine, but what would be the point? None at all. It wouldn't help me improve in any way, and better shots than mine would come out anyway.

I don't need to let my own desire to improve interfere in other peoples efforts, and i can even help them out a little if i can. Them being there or not won't mean i get better or worse photos.