Dance Music-Production Guidelines

Stab*City

Hi all.. Was just thinking of a question i had and it prompted me to create this thread.. The question was regarding samples and basically any sounds. And more specific the harmonic keys these sounds are in.. Is there certain guidelines to be aware of when creating tracks.. Im a more "that sounds good" kinda producer and was hoping maybe some of you more prolific guys may shed some light.. i mean are certain keys a no no for dance music? and that kinda thing..

Maybe we could use this thread to show me and others who dont know the things that are a given in dance music production..

seannash

id say stick with "if it sounds good it is good" mentality.

i have no idea about keys,i just bluff my way through.
it is something ive been meaning to study a bit but for now im managing okay without it

partyatmygaff

I don't primarily do dance music but to be honest, guidelines make for boring "typical" music.

I'm guessing a great way to learn what makes a song good is to study another song that you liked, maybe download it in MIDI and study it in a piano roll, or if you have a music notation program like sibelius even better.

See what they put in to make the song.


All in all, just do what you feel like doing, music with guidelines only limits what you can achieve.

That said, Obviously there are guidlelines for making dance music when it comes to arranging a song etc etc but thats justs the foundation, the rest you should just create it yourself.


That said, I don't really make much or any dance music, in fact I've never even made anything longer than 6 bars long as of yet but still I think you'll agree with what I'm saying.

Neurojazz

Modes are worth looking into. Basically they are used to colour the scales you use.

The scale you'd use would either be deliberate or accidental, but modal knowledge comes in handy when you want to **** the bass notes around to create extra bar lengths for progressive material.

If modes are a mystery, here's a very rudimentary outline.

Take a scale 'C Major' containing the notes C D E F G A B , now with your 'right hand' playing simple melodies play a C with the left hand - sounds awesome.... now play the same melody with the left hand doing a D (the next note in the scale of C major) - this would be called the second mode. Then the same melody and the 3rd - etc....

Now, there are *many* scales, but as sean points out - do it so it sounds right to your ear really... then deal with the science later if doing advanced editing - BUT, if you wanted psi-trance for example you'd use a harmonic minor scale like 'c-d-d#-f#-g-a-a#' and the modes follow those notes.

If unclear, i'll expand!

This is a big way of coloring any style of music at the root of it.

splitrmx

Cut the midrange, drop the bass.

Neurojazz

splitrmx wrote: »

Cut the midrange, drop the bass.

After or before the donk and cowbell solo?

gsparx

Neurojazz wrote: »

if you wanted psi-trance for example you'd use a harmonic minor scale like 'c-d-d#-f#-g-a-a#' and the modes follow those notes.

the C harmonic minor scale would be C-D-Eb-F-G-Ab-B-C
to the OP: the more rules you know, the more you know which ones to break but generally you probably either have a good ear for it or not and if you have a good ear then you can get by without too much knowledge at first and supplement as you go along.

Neurojazz

gsparx wrote: »

the C harmonic minor scale would be C-D-Eb-F-G-Ab-B-C
to the OP: the more rules you know, the more you know which ones to break but generally you probably either have a good ear for it or not and if you have a good ear then you can get by without too much knowledge at first and supplement as you go along.

Also ascending = # descending = b

Will have to check over my scale knowledge - getting rusty

gsparx

i should also add it's never any harm to know music theory but i think for dance music production, (again you need a good ear), it might be more important to know your sound engineering, ie eq'ing, compression, gating, filtering, bussing etc. and also synth programming and sound design.

Stab*City

gsparx wrote: »

i should also add it's never any harm to know music theory but i think for dance music production, (again you need a good ear), it might be more important to know your sound engineering, ie eq'ing, compression, gating, filtering, bussing etc. and also synth programming and sound design.

I think synth programming is a bit of a stumbling block for me too.. i have no problem making more than decent beats and basslines. and i can usually by ear come up with a decent melody.. but then i hit a wall so to speak.. i have a hard drive full of half finished tunes and the want to get something finished..

I found for a long time i was putting too much time into learning every new program/synth that came out and in the end have also only learned half of what i should have by jumping back and forth.. i have decied to go with one DAW from now on so thats at least a start..

I suppose the reason i started this thread was to try and not get guidelines on how to proceed but more to come up with a working formula for myself as to get things done..

I have read a good few books and have over €500 euro worth of computer mags.. have seen all the tutorial dvds and youtube vids.. i just feel like now its time to get up off my a** and churn out that tune i know is trapped inside!!

Neurojazz

Stab*City wrote: »

i have a hard drive full of half finished tunes and the want to get something finished..

Collabs help. In fact i'd say peoples music sounds much better when they've drawn on a large pool of influences (which means learning the techniques and can be quicker with collaborations).

So lets say your making drum & bass, find someone who does something totally different and see who they finish (or don't) a track - that 3rd person perspective really helps to spot your own stumbling blocks.

The only unfinished tracks i have are either embryonic (like a few bars of inspiration saved for a later date) or near completion (i take years to complete stuff sometimes)

I've spent years teaching, passing on skills, sharing and learning from those in front of me from the early blues riffs on guitar up to different techniques for sidechaining in DAWS today - it's pretty much a good thing to spread your own knowledge at the same time as you richen the pool of musicians around you.

People who have problems finishing just tend to not have (as you've said) - some bridging skills they need to complete the circle - persistence pays off!

Good luck with it all

seannash

Stab*City wrote: »

i just feel like now its time to get up off my a** and churn out that tune i know is trapped inside!!

thats really it.finishing is the hard,uninspiring part of the job that you must get over and done with.
for me the excitement of knowing what the finished product will sound like is enough motivation for me to knuckle down and finish tracks.i find if i dont have that drive to finish then the track isnt really worth finishing

really theres absolutly nothing stopping you finishing a track except you,just get stuck in and stop procrastinating about it.

1 finished track is better than 1000 unfinished tracks.

Dragan

Neurojazz wrote: »

Collabs help.

Bingo. I'm pretty lucky in that they dude i make tunes with has been at it for a while, is a DJ and also a sound engineer. As such, when i have questions i can just seek immediate answers. It also adds a new spin to everything, i seem to be stuck in Dubstep at the moment, he is writing chilled out DnB and when we are working on the same thing it always seem to be Breakbeat.

gsparx

seannash wrote: »

thats really it.finishing is the hard,uninspiring part of the job that you must get over and done with.

Definitely agree with this. A lot of it is trial and error, just keep throwing stuff at the song. Open up a synth you haven't used in ages and try something. If it's not working try something else. The first thing you try will very rarely work but often it'll lead to something, which will lead to something else and on and on and eventually (hopefully) you'll end up with something acceptable.
And a lot of the time you'll get there by accident, trying to achieve something completely different. Happy accidents

Stab*City

seannash wrote: »

really theres absolutly nothing stopping you finishing a track except you,just get stuck in and stop procrastinating about it.

1 finished track is better than 1000 unfinished tracks.

You have really hit the nail on the head here.. i just need to knuckle down i think.. another question i have is about samples/loops.. just wondering do you guys use them much? Am i putting too much pressure on myself to write a 100% original track.. if you guys do use them on average what percentage of your tracks are original/samples/loops if you even use them at all.. im sure the more experienced probably dont..

as for the collabs i wish i could but dont know many people.. i come from a dj background (15 years) and most of my dj friends are either too lazy or stuck in dj mode.. i would absolutly love to sit down with someone for a day or two and just watch and take it all in but unlucky for me i do see that happening with anyone i know anytime soon..

seannash

Stab*City wrote: »

You have really hit the nail on the head here.. i just need to knuckle down i think.. another question i have is about samples/loops.. just wondering do you guys use them much? Am i putting too much pressure on myself to write a 100% original track.. if you guys do use them on average what percentage of your tracks are original/samples/loops if you even use them at all.. im sure the more experienced probably dont..

as for the collabs i wish i could but dont know many people.. i come from a dj background (15 years) and most of my dj friends are either too lazy or stuck in dj mode.. i would absolutly love to sit down with someone for a day or two and just watch and take it all in but unlucky for me i do see that happening with anyone i know anytime soon..

well to be honest i never use samples.i only use one shots(single kicks,hats,snares,claps etc)i never use loops of basslines or drum loops.i like to make my own.

maybe you are putting yourself under pressure to not use them as you might not be experienced enough to make your own basslines,leadline,pads etc but in the end most producers make all there own synth patches and melodies.

oh and jtsuited was on about doing a sit down in the studio one day with a few lads.maybe you could attend that

Dragan

Stab*City wrote: »

You have really hit the nail on the head here.. i just need to knuckle down i think.. another question i have is about samples/loops.. just wondering do you guys use them much? Am i putting too much pressure on myself to write a 100% original track.. if you guys do use them on average what percentage of your tracks are original/samples/loops if you even use them at all.. im sure the more experienced probably dont..

as for the collabs i wish i could but dont know many people.. i come from a dj background (15 years) and most of my dj friends are either too lazy or stuck in dj mode.. i would absolutly love to sit down with someone for a day or two and just watch and take it all in but unlucky for me i do see that happening with anyone i know anytime soon..

I have yet to use a drum loop or a bass loop as you find them on the net, i find them WAY too restrictive. The only time i use a drum loop is when i am working on DnB or Breakbeat, where i take an old break, slice it, delete add and rearrange and then go from there. I'll end up using maybe three of the hits from the loop and thats about it.

I know a lot of people think you should hold back on what you put out but i find it best to put out a tune and get feedback from people who know more about this stuff than me. I've put out three Dubstep tracks so far, and it's clear to the ear that each one has been a bit better than the last because i am applying the advice given to me by people here and on other forums.

I understand the feeling that you want each tune you put out to be a masterpiece but the fact of it is that the guys who can do that, put out a consistantly good tune time and time again, have been in the game for years and have probably thrown out more ideas than i'll ever come up with.

But there is no way to got to where they are by keeping their idea's locked down, i imagine they all had sounding boards for ideas and tunes.

Stab*City

seannash wrote: »

well to be honest i never use samples.i only use one shots(single kicks,hats,snares,claps etc)i never use loops of basslines or drum loops.i like to make my own.

maybe you are putting yourself under pressure to not use them as you might not be experienced enough to make your own basslines,leadline,pads etc but in the end most producers make all there own synth patches and melodies.

oh and jtsuited was on about doing a sit down in the studio one day with a few lads.maybe you could attend that

Thats the way i am too id like the track to be more or less 100% original. I have no problem making my own solid beats and drum patterns but yes i do have trouble writing melodies and leadlines.. i can get pretty decent sounding results after lots of trial n error but i feel i should be making more progress at this stage..

Yeah id love to sit down for a day with you guys but i think your all in dublin ya?

Stab*City

Dragan wrote: »

I have yet to use a drum loop or a bass loop as you find them on the net, i find them WAY too restrictive. The only time i use a drum loop is when i am working on DnB or Breakbeat, where i take an old break, slice it, delete add and rearrange and then go from there. I'll end up using maybe three of the hits from the loop and thats about it.

id rarely use drum loops myself as i think if i couldnt come up with a good drum pattern myself from one shots i may as well give up at this stage..

the way i work is if i sit down to attempt to make a track ill try find maybe an fx loop or somethin as a basis to the track and try building from there using my own sounds.. adding drums, basslines, melodies and fx.. usually if i do use a loop its only for lets say the rythm and by the time i finish processing it sounds totally different..

Im def gonna take the advice and try at least finish one track post it up and have some of you guys disect it and see if i can figure out where im coming up short..

Stab*City

heys guys i found this interesting thread on a forum and said id share it with you.. its kind of a bit of information i was looking for.. if the more experienced of you might have a read and see if there might be anything you may add or change..

http://abletonlivedj.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=967&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

this thread is about DMP using ableton but obviously alot of the info can be applied to other DAW's

jtsuited

haha deccy's post linked from boards. he'll be delighted when he sees it (he's womoma on here).

there's a knowledge section on here that's probably the best out there (which isn't saying much tbh) http://www.soundstosample.com/

Stab*City

just had another look didnt take note the original poster was from our lovely island!!

Executive Steve

It isn't a bad idea to run all your samples through key analysis software when you rip them and put them in folders according to key; although there's a minimum length for the samples you can use it with so it works best with accapellas and pads and the likes...

(although do bear in mind you'll almost certainly nudge the sample out of tune in the process of processing it etc)