Can Liverpool win the league in 2009/10

Fromvert

The Man U supporters are saying that they have lost great players before and replaced them. Yep thats true.

But, Man U have never replaced the best player in the world. And you know what they wont. No matter how much yous would like to believe that Fergie will yous are kidding yourselves and yous know it.

Boggles

Fromvert wrote: »

The Man U supporters are saying that they have lost great players before and replaced them. Yep thats true.

But, Man U have never replaced the best player in the world. And you know what they wont. No matter how much yous would like to believe that Fergie will yous are kidding yourselves and yous know it.

Replaced is probably the wrong word. Adapt the team is probably more right.

He has done it 3 or 4 times at this stage, to doubt he will do it again is very risky.

Holsten

Yes, yes they can.

Liverpool.
Chelsea.
United.
City.

Boom!

ntlbell

Fromvert wrote: »

The Man U supporters are saying that they have lost great players before and replaced them. Yep thats true.

But, Man U have never replaced the best player in the world. And you know what they wont. No matter how much yous would like to believe that Fergie will yous are kidding yourselves and yous know it.

huh.

how can you replace "the best player in the world" without getting the best player in the world?

nonsense.

We don't need the "second best player in the world" to win the premiership and the best player in the world didn't win us the champions league.

one player does not a team make.

Fromvert

RasTa wrote: »

Sure they can, so can United, Chelsea, Arsenal, City, Everton, Villa......

Id have to disagree with City, Everton and Villa they wont. Whoever finishes the best out of those three will still be a minimum of 15 points behind the league winners next year.

At the moment it is a toss up between the top four.

ntlbell

Fromvert wrote: »

Id have to disagree with City, Everton and Villa they wont. Whoever finishes the best out of those three will still be a minimum of 15 points behind the league winners next year.

At the moment it is a toss up between the top four.

That's very insightful.

You've obviously done this before.

curry-muff

2. YES- Liverpool can win (Liverpool fan)

Fromvert wrote: »

The Man U supporters are saying that they have lost great players before and replaced them. Yep thats true.

But, Man U have never replaced the best player in the world. And you know what they wont. No matter how much yous would like to believe that Fergie will yous are kidding yourselves and yous know it.

Belittling ronaldo is one thing but belittling the best and most experienced manager in the world is something which cant possibly fall short of stupid.

ntlbell

ntlbell wrote: »

huh.

how can you replace "the best player in the world" without getting the best player in the world?

nonsense.

We don't need the "second best player in the world" to win the premiership and the best player in the world didn't win us the champions league.

one player does not a team make.

The simple matter is Ronaldo has been replaced by Valencia who has scored 7 goals in the last 2 seasons. Ronaldo averaged 30 odd in the same seasons.

I'd be suprised if fergie doesn't get the chequebook out though for a major signing.

Fromvert

curry-muff wrote: »

Belittling ronaldo is one thing but belittling the best and most experienced manager in the world is something which cant possibly fall short of stupid.

I not belittling Fergie. I think the man is one of the greatest managers ever and when he does retire it will be the most difficult position Man U will have ever had to fill. But it is fact that Ronaldo cant be replaced. So how am I belittling him?

ntlbell

rarnes1 wrote: »

The simple matter is Ronaldo has been replaced by Valencia who has scored 7 goals in the last 2 seasons. Ronaldo averaged 30 odd in the same seasons.

I'd be suprised if fergie doesn't get the chequebook out though for a big signing.

but what does that mean in real terms? we'll be down 23 goals a year?

really?

it doesn't work like that as i have stated all ready

goals will be got from different areas

was Valencia playing in one of if not the best squads in the world who dominate game after game creating an abundance of chances? no.

it's absolute hogwash to try and predict what's going to happen.

Boggles

Fromvert wrote: »

But it is fact that Ronaldo cant be replaced. So how am I belittling him?

Do you think Ferguson can adapt without him?

ntlbell

ntlbell wrote: »

but what does that mean in real terms? we'll be down 23 goals a year?

really?

it doesn't work like that as i have stated all ready

goals will be got from different areas

was Valencia playing in one of if not the best squads in the world who dominate game after game creating an abundance of chances? no.

it's absolute hogwash to try and predict what's going to happen.

I'm hardly predicting, basically pointing out a few fhacts.

ntlbell

rarnes1 wrote: »

I'm hardly predicting, basically pointing out a few fhacts.

your not pointing out anything.

your making some observations, that's fine, they're just pointless and mean nothing.

Boggles

I fully expect United to get more than 68 in the league this season.

dannydiamond

There has been some right doozies, on this forum especially during the summer but my god this is definately the most ridiculous/,pointless thread ever.

Why not just rename the title to 'Liverpool and United fans,have at it'.

dannydiamond

dannydiamond wrote: »

There has been some right doozies, on this forum especially during the summer but my god this is definately the most ridiculous/,pointless thread ever.

Why not just rename the title to 'Liverpool and United fans,have at it'.

It's a match thread without a match.

Fromvert

Boggles wrote: »

Do you think Ferguson can adapt without him?

To a point yeah, but Man U will still be slightly weaker without him. That bit of magic he pulled out of arse numerous times to get yous out of trouble cant be replaced. And I know people will probably say, now hes gone we might not get ourselves into trouble as the whole team will not have to compensate for his not so great work effort.

I look at this way if tomorrow morning I was to wake up and see Steven Gerrard has left Liverpool. Yeah we might be able to adapt but we will be that little bit weaker. There is no way of getting around it.

Fromvert

dannydiamond wrote: »

There has been some right doozies, on this forum especially during the summer but my god this is definately the most ridiculous/,pointless thread ever.

Why not just rename the title to 'Liverpool and United fans,have at it'.

But thats what most threads turn into once there is a disagreement between a supporter from both sides. And it was always going to happen in this thread.

Fromvert

ntlbell wrote: »

That's very insightful.

You've obviously done this before.

Is that a compliment?

missingtime

ntlbell your signature is inspired

To answer the question:

If liverpool can keep Mascherano and Alonso: Yes. If they cant: No

dannydiamond

rarnes1 wrote: »

It's a match thread without a match.

True,and no one is even full sure of all the players.

Chucky the tree

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

I guess I'll have my dig:
Where's the "Can Everton win the league in 2009/10" thread?

In the humor forum.

rossie1977

legs11 wrote: »

sure it would..!

but for a team like the pool who spent 300 odd million its no biggie,

prior to the johnsons transfer it was £212.6m sterling gross during rafas reign (june 2004 till present)

man city have nearly spent that amount in just over a year and i doubt many expect them to win the title, finishing fourth would be a major achievement for city

alex ferguson spent more than kenny dalglish when both went head to head between 1986 and 1991, didn't help though as he never got near winning the league in that period, the point being you cannot build a championship winning team overnight or in 1-2 years, it takes years and takes even longer when one team is so strong and dominating

Unearthly

Xavi6 wrote: »

How many years has this been said though and it simply never happens?

From Mark Gonzalez to Harry Kewell to Jermaine Pennant to Albert Riera.....it seems to be a trend that can't be broken. I certainly don't see too many current options to correct it.

Riera isn't top quality but he had a good season, and for the price Liverpool paid I thought it was a very good signing.

Morzadec

Didn't really want to venture onto this thread because its been said all before really...

But anyone suggesting Liverpool CAN'T win the League this year must surely be classified as a troll or knows nothing about football.

We COULD have won the League last year, there was only 4 points in the difference. So if 2 draws had been converted into 2 wins it would have been enough. Say the valid goal against Stoke at home wasn't disallowed and Arshavin didn't have quite such an amazing game at Anfield. That would have been enough and Liverpool would have been champions. I'm not moaning here about bad luck, because we got some good as well and at the end of the season United won fair and square.

But what I'm trying to point out is that last year was very very close and there was little to choose between United and Liverpool. The season rested on a few hinges that, another day, could have swung another way.

And now United have lost their best player.

So to suggest Liverpool CAN'T realistically win the title just really defies all logic and common sense.

(Note difference between CAN and WILL. I'm not saying Liverpool will win the League but they definitely can.)

C0SM0

2. YES- Liverpool can win (Liverpool fan)

Jesus Morzadec- by your logic so Everton could have won the league-

QUOTE "We COULD have won the League last year, there was only 4 points in the difference. So if 2 draws had been converted into 2 wins it would have been enough. Say the valid goal against Stoke at home wasn't disallowed and Arshavin didn't have quite such an amazing game at Anfield."

Taking that logic- Everton COULD have won the league if only they hadn't drawn 12 games and LOST 9 more.. So if we convert those into wins- Wahey look what happens Everton would be champions-
Ridiculous arguement!!!

Morzadec

C0SM0 wrote: »

Jesus Morzadec- by your logic so Everton could have won the league-

QUOTE "We COULD have won the League last year, there was only 4 points in the difference. So if 2 draws had been converted into 2 wins it would have been enough. Say the valid goal against Stoke at home wasn't disallowed and Arshavin didn't have quite such an amazing game at Anfield."

Taking that logic- Everton COULD have won the league if only they hadn't drawn 12 games and LOST 9 more.. So if we convert those into wins- Wahey look what happens Everton would be champions-
Ridiculous arguement!!!

Do I really have to explain how Liverpool turning 2 draws into 2 wins is a vastly different scenario to Everton turning 12 draws into 12 wins?

My point is that the title race was on something close to a knife edge. That's what I was pointing out with the couple of dropped points in 2 games that easily could have been won. To run United that close (especially considering their points tally) is clear evidence that Liverpool can realistically win the League.

kida

Morzadec wrote: »

Do I really have to explain how Liverpool turning 2 draws into 2 wins is a vastly different scenario to Everton turning 12 draws into 12 wins?

My point is that the title race was on something close to a knife edge. That's what I was pointing out with the couple of dropped points in 2 games that easily could have been won. To run United that close (especially considering their points tally) is clear evidence that Liverpool can realistically win the League.

no its clear evidence that they came within 4 points last season - new season now

mark renton

I like his logic - If I looked like Brad Pitt that means I could have gone out with Angelina Jolie

ntlbell

Morzadec wrote: »

Do I really have to explain how Liverpool turning 2 draws into 2 wins is a vastly different scenario to Everton turning 12 draws into 12 wins?

My point is that the title race was on something close to a knife edge. That's what I was pointing out with the couple of dropped points in 2 games that easily could have been won. To run United that close (especially considering their points tally) is clear evidence that Liverpool can realistically win the League.

they HAD to turn them last year.

this a different year new season they MIGHT have to do a hell of a lot more they MIGHT not pick up points where they did last year etc

it's a ridiculous argument.

they haven't been good enough for over 20 years there is NOTHING to suggest it will change this year.

so of course they CAN win it this year, it's as UNLIKELY as it was last year

mark renton

ntlbell wrote: »

so of course they CAN win it this year, it's as UNLIKELY as it was last year

Actually more likely this year due to a couple of points
1. No Ronaldo for United


well i could only find 1 point

C0SM0

2. YES- Liverpool can win (Liverpool fan)

Well let's look at it this way- If my Aunty had balls she'd be my Uncle.

Is that a rational arguement?

Those results are exactly that -RESULTS!! Therefore you can't change them and Liverpoll along with 18 other teams did not win the league!!
But IF you decide to change 2 draws to wins, then why can't Everton change just a couple more-Maybe if we take them up to 88mph they might go Back to the Future...

ntlbell

john47832 wrote: »

Actually more likely this year due to a couple of points
1. No Ronaldo for United


well i could only find 1 point

If you look at where liverpool dropped points last year and then look at the same team vs united if you think united will suddenly have problems against the middle to bottom opposition because of one player then you should really consider taken an interest in a different sport.

football is not for you.

Pro. F

C0SM0 wrote: »

Well let's look at it this way- If my Aunty had balls she'd be my Uncle.

Is that a rational arguement?

Those results are exactlt that -RESULTS therefore you can't change them!! But IF you decide to change 2 draws to wins, then why can't Everton change just a couple more- maybe if we take them up to 88mph they might go Back to the Future...

Are you saying that it wasn't close last year? Are you actually saying that liverpool were as far off winning the league as everton? Or are you just talking nonsense for the sake of it?

mark renton

ntlbell wrote: »

If you look at where liverpool dropped points last year and then look at the same team vs united if you think united will suddenly have problems against the middle to bottom opposition because of one player then you should really consider taken an interest in a different sport.

football is not for you.

LOL

another self righteous football fan on top of the perch looking down at the rest


Actually the luck lied with Utd last season, as in how many late winners they got - balls going in off backsides, knees etc, and then the amount of shots liverpool had on goal in the drawn games

ntlbell you seem enough of a saddo to go check the stats - i'll await

C0SM0

2. YES- Liverpool can win (Liverpool fan)

Pro. F wrote: »

Are you saying that it wasn't close last year? Are you actually saying that liverpool were as far off winning the league as everton? Or are you just talking nonsense for the sake of it?

YES i am- Let's look at the facts

Winners - Man United
Losers- Everyone else- including Liverpool and Everton, and you can add West Brom too they came as close as L'pool in that THEY DIDN'T!!!!

ntlbell

john47832 wrote: »

LOL

another self righteous football fan on top of the perch looking down at the rest


Actually the luck lied with Utd last season, as in how many late winners they got - balls going in off backsides, knees etc, and then the amount of shots liverpool had on goal in the drawn games

ntlbell you seem enough of a saddo to go check the stats - i'll await

and Liverpool had none :rolleyes:

i lost count of how many times they ended up playing against 10 men wrongly.

kyut banging them in off his shin...

all teams got a bit of a luck over the year.

another pointless argument.

you don't keep doing back to back league's because your lucky.

you don't win anything for 20+ years because of bad luck, it's more to do with not being good enough.

there's nothing to suggest that this year Liverpool are good enough.

nothing.

Morzadec

ntlbell wrote: »

they HAD to turn them last year.

this a different year new season they MIGHT have to do a hell of a lot more they MIGHT not pick up points where they did last year etc

it's a ridiculous argument.

they haven't been good enough for over 20 years there is NOTHING to suggest it will change this year.

so of course they CAN win it this year, it's as UNLIKELY as it was last year

True we could have lost many of those games that we came behind and won and ended up in third.

So likewise I would argue that the question 'Can Chelsea finish ahead of Liverpool next year?' is similarly ridiculous, and i would also say they COULD have last year if one or two things had gone their way (for example Lampards unlucky red in Anfield, or on a bigger scale, Essien's injury). Similarly I would say the question 'Can United win the Champions League next year?' is a ridiculous question, and I would also argue that they COULD have last season (the game might have been very different if United took the first goal in the opening 10 minutes when they were on top).

What I'm trying to argue is that these things are not set in stone and can often rest on hinges, especially over the course of the season. Injuries will be a massive factor for example. I still maintain that Liverpool were good enough to win it last season. I'm not by any means saying we were better than United or got unlucky, but I do think the squad we had was good enough. I think there was very little to choose over the 2 teams over the course of the season. It's might be a controversial view but I believe that you can fail to win something and still argue you were good enough to win it.

I'm not trying to if and but and moan about last season by the way. I'm just trying to point out the reality that Liverpool could have won the League last year, and still can win the League next year.

ntlbell

Morzadec wrote: »

T
. I still maintain that Liverpool were good enough to win it last season. IIt's might be a controversial view but I believe that you can fail to win something and still argue you were good enough to win it.
.

They were not good enough to win it last season, if they were they would be champions.

lol what a crazy argument.

Morzadec

C0SM0 wrote: »

Well let's look at it this way- If my Aunty had balls she'd be my Uncle.

Is that a rational arguement?

Those results are exactly that -RESULTS!! Therefore you can't change them and Liverpoll along with 18 other teams did not win the league!!
But IF you decide to change 2 draws to wins, then why can't Everton change just a couple more-Maybe if we take them up to 88mph they might go Back to the Future...

I'm trying to speak realistically here.

There is a difference between the possibility of a linesman making a correct call and not disallowing Gerrard's goal against Stoke (that's half of the 4 points Liverpool needed) and time travel.

I know what you're saying - by my logic West Brom could have won the League if this that and the other had happened.

What I'm trying to point out is that Liverpool's list of if's and but's was certainly shorter than Brom or Everton etc...

Pro. F

C0SM0 wrote: »

YES i am-

you didn't say which question you were answering there.

C0SM0 wrote: »

Let's look at the facts
Winners - Man United
Losers- Everyone else- including Liverpool and Everton, and you can add West Brom too they came as close as L'pool in that THEY DIDN'T!!!!

lol i just don't understand why you would try to argue that West Brom were as close to winning the league as Liverpool - it makes you look soft in the head.

Morzadec

ntlbell wrote: »

They were not good enough to win it last season, if they were they would be champions.

lol what a crazy argument.

Well I don't see things quite as black and white as you. As I said these things aren't set in stone and often rest on a couple of important things which can go either way.

Do you not think that United were good enough to win the CL last year?

Here's a non-biased explanation of my logic that actually discredits Liverpool. Remember the CL quarter-final against Arsenal in the 07-08 season? We won it with a last minute penalty - a slightly contentious penalty. Arsenal hadn't been given a similar one in the Emirates against Hleb that was at least as much as a foul as the foul on Babel. If either of these decisions had gone the other way Arsenal would have gone through.

Arsenal were certainly good enough to beat Liverpool over two legs. As were Liverpool to beat Arsenal, as they did. Would you not agree?

I accept your disagreement with my general opinion as you obviously don't rate Liverpool. That's just a difference of opinion and we'll agree to disagree. But surely you can see the logic?

ntlbell

Pro. F wrote: »

you didn't say which question you were answering there.


lol i just don't understand why you would try to argue that West Brom were as close to winning the league as Liverpool - it makes you look soft in the head.

what difference does it make, neither club got their hands on it

the champions did!

all riiiiiiiioght...

ntlbell

Morzadec wrote: »

Do you not think that United were good enough to win the CL last year?

Not based on their performance in the CL final no.

which is where you win it.

not in the group stages against mickey mouse.

C0SM0

2. YES- Liverpool can win (Liverpool fan)

lol i just don't understand why you would try to argue that West Brom were as close to winning the league as Liverpool - it makes you look soft in the head.[/quote]

Well let me explain it this way PRO.F.....

Who won it -MAN UTD

Who didn't- Liverpool and West Brom.

Comprendez?

Pro. F

Ntlbell please please stop being a Manchester United fan. Your trolling is embassising. You obviously are only on here to troll. Why do you do it?

mark renton

were Liverpool a better team than Utd last season?

An argument pointing to the lessons in football given to Utd by Pool could indicate Yes

Morzadec

C0SM0 wrote: »

lol i just don't understand why you would try to argue that West Brom were as close to winning the league as Liverpool - it makes you look soft in the head.

Well let me explain it this way PRO.F.....

Who won it -MAN UTD

Who didn't- Liverpool and West Brom.

Comprendez?[/quote]

So Aalborg had as good of a chance to win the CL as United?

Think I'm going to exit this thread....

ntlbell

john47832 wrote: »

were Liverpool a better team than Utd last season?

An argument pointing to the lessons in football given to Utd by Pool could indicate Yes

That's irrelevant, they were not good enough over 38 games to get more points than anyone else over that amount of games.

That's how you win the league

it's not points secured over two matches

is it really that difficult to understand how the league works?

C0SM0

2. YES- Liverpool can win (Liverpool fan)

Morzadec wrote: »

Well let me explain it this way PRO.F.....

Who won it -MAN UTD

Who didn't- Liverpool and West Brom.

Comprendez?

So Aalborg had as good of a chance to win the CL as United?

Think I'm going to exit this thread....[/quote]

Well let's take Morzadec's arguement- if we change their losses into wins they won have won it..