Laws regarding dogs on a lead/muzzle

lassykk

Hi I was recently threatened with a ban on the waterford forum for asking why we should help people who had lost their dogs whilst out for a walk cos they hadn't bothered putting them on a lead.

The dogs in question are also on the list of "dangerous" dogs in ireland which require a muzzle whilst in public.

There is no excuse at all for walking a dog without a lead... especially dogs that pose a danger to others

I was just wondering what other people feel about this?

I am aware that this is an animal related forum so I imagine most people love dogs but just try to look at it from the point of view of a person who is terrified of dogs and is meant to have laws in place to protect them

In the waterford thread no-one else complained about my comments but I was told I was not allowed post again in the topic by the moderator (I won't get in to that here as I'll probably be banned from this topic) and it was recommended by the mod that I create a post here

Why should people help others that have broken the law though?

getz

in my opinion all dogs should be on a lead when in public,but at times a dog may slip his collar and run away accidents can happen ,as for muzzles on so called dangerous dogs i think this law wasent properly thought out ,and introduced for some political reason by someone who knows nothing about dogs,the reason i say this is because on the original restricted dangerous dogs list was the bulldog one of the softest dogs you can get,and the dog world had a good laugh at the thought of a bully with muzzel. i hold my hand up to that lad in dublin who walked round with a muzzle tied to his bulldogs backside

andreac

There is no dangerous dogs list in ireland, its a "Restricted Breeds List".

I do agree that most dogs should be kept on a lead, even those who arent on the list, as my dog who is on the restricted breeds list is often tormented by loose dogs who arent on the list and that is very annoying.

I dont agree where you say "especially those that pose a danger to others", as its usually breeds not on that list that cause the most trouble, but you just never hear about it.

gman2k

We have a rottweiler and there is no way we would walk her with a muzzle, people would think that she is dangerous.
Oh look at that dangerous muzzled killer dog, better stay away.....

Was challenged by a Garda before about it, and it was like - yeah Guard, whatever, we normally put a muzzle on, just forgot it today. Now please go away and chase robbers.

It's your moral duty to disobey unjust laws.

lassykk

getz wrote: »

in my opinion all dogs should be on a lead when in public,but at times a dog may slip his collar and run away accidents can happen ,as for muzzles on so called dangerous dogs i think this law wasent properly thought out ,and introduced for some political reason by someone who knows nothing about dogs,the reason i say this is because on the original restricted dangerous dogs list was the bulldog one of the softest dogs you can get,and the dog world had a good laugh at the thought of a bully with muzzel. i hold my hand up to that lad in dublin who walked round with a muzzle tied to his bulldogs backside

You nicely contradicted yourself there. You claim that muzzle laws weren't thought out but yet you openly admit that dogs can get loose from a lead.

So if a dangerous dog slips its collar and doesn't have a muzzle and attacks someone then your ok with it?

andreac wrote: »

There is no dangerous dogs list in ireland, its a "Restricted Breeds List".

I do agree that most dogs should be kept on a lead, even those who arent on the list, as my dog who is on the restricted breeds list is often tormented by loose dogs who arent on the list and that is very annoying.

I dont agree where you say "especially those that pose a danger to others", as its usually breeds not on that list that cause the most trouble, but you just never hear about it.

I agree that it is not always dogs on the list that cause the trouble. I should clarify that I mean any dog that poses a danger regardless of breed and regardless of whether their owns claim they are "harmless"

gman2k wrote: »

We have a rottweiler and there is no way we would walk her with a muzzle, people would think that she is dangerous.
Oh look at that dangerous muzzled killer dog, better stay away.....

Was challenged by a Garda before about it, and it was like - yeah Guard, whatever, we normally put a muzzle on, just forgot it today. Now please go away and chase robbers.

It's your moral duty to disobey unjust laws.

Your comments fill me with such anger that I don't even know where to start. So you basically thinks its fair to make people cross the road to avoid your un-muzzled dog just because your too ignorant to obey a law that is there to protect people. Just because you claim your dog is harmless doesn't make it so.

You think its fair to have people who are terrified of dogs unable to go for walks for fear of people like you and your animal.

andreac

Why do you keep calling them dangerous dogs????,

They arent dangerous, its people like you calling them this that makes people afraid of the breeds on that list.

They are on a RESTRICTED BREEDS LIST, not a dangerous dogs list.

cowzerp

lassykk wrote: »

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I've a rotty too and he's a big sweety, i would not put a muzzle on him unless he was viscious, do you think its fair that my dog could be attacked by some stupid dog and cant even defend himself or me for that matter!

Any dog can bite and from what i hear the dogs that bite most are not even on the "restricted" breeds list-owners are the problem and a good owner knows his dog and has them under control.

ISDW

lassykk wrote: »

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I'm afraid that you don't seem to be thinking your argument through. There are 11 breeds on a list that someone who obviously knows nothing about dogs decided to put restrictions on. Yes, by law, these breeds should have a muzzle on when in public. However, that leaves I don't know how many hundreds of other breeds that don't have to be muzzled, so if we are going to stick to the law totally, anybody who is terrified of dogs won't be able to go for walks anyway, because of the hundreds of perfectly legal dogs that are walking around unmuzzled.

I totally believe in responsible dog ownership, and I also totally understand that there are a lot of people who are afraid of dogs and find it difficult to be around them. However, nowhere in any of your posts can I see that you have been attacked, or indeed have any real reason to be afraid of dogs, other than media hype? Again, I will reiterate that I am sympathetic to people who are afraid of dogs, I used to walk my dogs in a public park off lead, but occasionally met people who were obviously terrified and the dogs would be put straight back on the leads until we were past those people. My dogs never went anywhere near anybody btw, they were more interested in going in the bushes looking for squirrels, but I could understand that some people have these fears.

I know that this is an old argument and a lot of people don't think its relevant but, you are angry that this person is ignoring what they consider an unjust law. Do you ever drive over the speed limit, even by a couple of kms an hour? Still breaking the law. Ever use the phone while driving? There are an awful lot of laws that get broken every day, laws that most of society seem to accept as being okay to break.

andreac

I have a friend whos Dobernmann was attacked and injured very badly from a labrador, while the dobermann had its muzzle on it couldnt defend itself and ended up with a lot of stitches and injuries.

The labrador ended up getting put down as the dog just went crazy to attack this dog.

I think its very unfair with situations like this where the dobermann couldnt defend itself because of these ridiculous laws, its always the dogs that suffer.

DBCyc

lassykk wrote: »

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Just because you see a dog that you perceive as being "dangerous" doesn't make it so either. Out of interest, why are you terrified of dogs?

It is fair for people to walk their dogs without a muzzle if they are responsible and know that their dog will not cause any harm. If your dog is aggressive then it is your responsibility to muzzle it in public whether it is a pit bull, a rott, a jack russell or a westie.

Also, from the other posts here it is clear that experienced dog owners agree that the law regarding restricted breeds was not thought out properly.

lightening

lassykk wrote: »

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This is a no brainer... You are under no obligation to help people find their dogs if they loose them. If they ask you just smile and say you are afraid of dogs. If you saw the dog running by you could at least tell the owner.

Also, note, it can be perfectly legal to walk your dog off the lead depending on local by laws.

getz

i think this is bigger a problem in ireland than the UK, because as there are less dogs per population in ireland a lot of people do not understand them. in the UK there are over 50,00000 dogs to the population of 60,00000,so one of the questions that should be asked is , why is there a restriced list to begin with,the answer-the local paper, tv, or radio station publishing,posting,or airing innacurate reports, then useing inflammatory language[vicious ;royyweiler,marauding pittbulls ect,and tv diliberately showing unrelated footage of dog fights supplied by the RSPCA ect, town councils were are busy banning breeds instead of punishing irresponsible behavior by the dog owners,. as i said before most people in the UK have dogs and realise its not the dog, its owner.

spurscormac

I think I can speak on this from both side of the fence.

Growing up as a kid I was terrified of dogs. If one came near me, I'd be petrified and run away. Of course at the time I didnt click that the dogs thought this was all part of the game and chase after me.

It wasn't really until I started going out with my now g/f that I had to begin to tolerate dogs. This was due to her cocker/golden retriever mix at home, so like it or lump it, I had to get used to the dog.

I grew to love that dog, and even shed a tear at her passing.
Then last summer, we got our very own puppy, a cocker spaniel.

So thats the background....here's my thoughts on the subject:

All dogs should be on a lead. The only dog that should be muzzled, is an aggressive one.
Too many times, I've tried to recall our little fella & he just won't come back. Its unfair on others walking in the park who are not keen on dogs, so I will not let him off lead any more.
He's not aggressive, just playful & jumpy - though non dog lovers could see this as aggression - they would be wrong.

I don't believe in the restricted breed principle either, the problem dogs are ones that have not been trained properly, and this is down to the owners, not the dogs.
Unfortunately, the same type of owners that create aggressive dogs, or don't attempt to correct aggressive behaviour, are the ones that can cause trouble, and are the root of the problem.

If all dogs were on lead, there wouldn't be as much of a problem, as people like the OP would feel a bit more secure, and maybe wouldn't believe the media hype.

Back to the point on should you help - well thats completely up to you. My puppy is part of the family, however, he has at times run out the door before we got the lead on & I dread to think what could happen him if he ran onto the road. He's just too young, has no sense & things its all a big game.
Other dogs can dig their way free or jump heights to get over fences.

So there are reasons why a dog could escape & get lost, its not just because they weren't put on a lead. Help find a missing dog if you want.

As for your fear of dogs - having suffered such fear in the past, I would hope you could bring yourself to face it and overcome it.
Dogs are very friendly, loyal pets & give great companionship and you're missing out on a lot.

seamus

I could be wrong, but there is no obligation to have your dog on a lead in a public place, you are simply required to have the animal under control. If your dog will come when called, every time, then you don't need a lead.

Some county councils and parks though can and do have their own bye-laws in relation to control of dogs.

lassykk

spurscormac wrote: »

I think I can speak on this from both side of the fence.

Growing up as a kid I was terrified of dogs. If one came near me, I'd be petrified and run away. Of course at the time I didnt click that the dogs thought this was all part of the game and chase after me.

It wasn't really until I started going out with my now g/f that I had to begin to tolerate dogs. This was due to her cocker/golden retriever mix at home, so like it or lump it, I had to get used to the dog.

I grew to love that dog, and even shed a tear at her passing.
Then last summer, we got our very own puppy, a cocker spaniel.

So thats the background....here's my thoughts on the subject:

All dogs should be on a lead. The only dog that should be muzzled, is an aggressive one.
Too many times, I've tried to recall our little fella & he just won't come back. Its unfair on others walking in the park who are not keen on dogs, so I will not let him off lead any more.
He's not aggressive, just playful & jumpy - though non dog lovers could see this as aggression - they would be wrong.

I don't believe in the restricted breed principle either, the problem dogs are ones that have not been trained properly, and this is down to the owners, not the dogs.
Unfortunately, the same type of owners that create aggressive dogs, or don't attempt to correct aggressive behaviour, are the ones that can cause trouble, and are the root of the problem.

If all dogs were on lead, there wouldn't be as much of a problem, as people like the OP would feel a bit more secure, and maybe wouldn't believe the media hype.

Back to the point on should you help - well thats completely up to you. My puppy is part of the family, however, he has at times run out the door before we got the lead on & I dread to think what could happen him if he ran onto the road. He's just too young, has no sense & things its all a big game.
Other dogs can dig their way free or jump heights to get over fences.

So there are reasons why a dog could escape & get lost, its not just because they weren't put on a lead. Help find a missing dog if you want.

As for your fear of dogs - having suffered such fear in the past, I would hope you could bring yourself to face it and overcome it.
Dogs are very friendly, loyal pets & give great companionship and you're missing out on a lot.

I think this person has brought the most reasoned statement to this thread. I apologise that I was a bit angry when I started the thread and I may not have made the most logical statements.

I'm actually not the person who is scared of dogs. I'm big enough to look after myself but someone extremely important to me is terrified of them (with good reason) and we have major issues in our locality with dogs off leashes.

I have to admit I only found out about muzzle laws by checking whether it was a legal requirement to have a dog on a lead. On rechecking this I see that it is only a requirement for a leash depending on the bye-law (this I still have a major problem with)

My argument over muzzle laws was uninformed and I again apologise that my statements weren't reasoned or logical in this regard which I have seen from the above posts.

Anyone with an agressive dog is unlikely to care whether it hurts someone anyway so a thread in a forum where people are unlikely to have agressive dogs is a tad pointless.

lightening

lassykk wrote: »

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Certain dogs need to be ran off the lead otherwise they would not be exercised, socialised, they wouldn't be used to people, kids, other dogs etc.... and if they DID somehow get off the lead there would be problems.

IvySlayer

Knee jerk reaction at its finest.

Irresponsible dog owners are ruining it for the rest of us. Mans best friend is slowing being turned into the enemy.

I've read threads here where you can't even have a Rottweiler in your back garden without neighbours fearing for their life. I know a Rotty that's like a lamb. I mean, he was scared by a butterfly ffs. I had a fox terrier who was visicous towards other dogs. She was a terrier size, but was not afraid of any dog. She would ignore dogs until they approached her, I warn owners she is dangerous but some off-the-lead owners let their dogs go tooo far to recall. Any dog that tried to sniff her would receive a nasty snap, luckily she never bit. With Humans, very friendly, especially children, and loved a bit of a play chase.

I personally don't think anyone should be able to walk into a pet store and buy a dog as some owners don't have a clue.

Our man in Havana

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