"6,000 learner drivers fined for breaking law"

Permabear

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Alanstrainor

Interesting.

O.P.H

I've got a strong suspision that the "6000" that were caught were your boy racer type people or driver that were pulled for some other reason like poor driving, speeding, using phone etc and when then the guards would dicover they are provo drivers and just come down hard on them because of the other reasons. If your a good, safe driver and your not driving some sooped up, kitted out car and obey the laws you'll be fine. And when you get pulled and questioned about the no L plate and no licenced passenger, if you have a good speel ready and are mannerly, i have no doubt you'll be sent off with a casution. Suppose you never know though.

Permabear

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RSA ADI MARK

o.p.h if the 6000 obey the law they would not drive unaccompanied

Fol20

Sure i was caught yesterday by a checkpoint with my l plate..I had 5 ppl in my car and all he said was you shouldnt be doing that..I did have to hand in my insurance disc sheet into their office though,but that could have been down to him seeing that i left off 2 guys 50m in front of the checkpoint and then having another 4incl myself in the car.

Stark

Had the satisfaction of overhearing a conversation while passing a car with L-plates pulled by a Garda a few weeks ago. "Can I see your driving license please? That's not a license, does your passenger have a license?"

O.P.H. wrote:

If your a good, safe driver and your not driving some sooped up, kitted out car and obey the laws you'll be fine.

I wonder what's stopping these "good safe drivers" from doing the test. It's like Gay Byrne telling all and sundry that he's a good safe driver who doesn't need to sit his test, then revealing that people close to him would plead with him not to drive home from the Late Late Show "drunk or sober". If you're good and safe, you should have no problem proving it.

Steoob

Eh.... is anyone else watching the Traffic Blues series on RTE? On Sunday they stopped a boy racer, with a provisional licence, unaccompanied, with no L-plates, doing handbrake turns in a car park. He got 2 points and an 80 euro fine. This happens in every episode, I've never seen a fine larger than €150. If I get stopped and fined something ridiculous like in the OP, when I have my L-Plates up, but just in no position to have a full licensed driver to accompany me throughout my day to day business, I'm just gonna get out of the car and <SNIP> the keys at the Guard because I dont think I'd be able to contain myself at how ridiculous the system works.

Tar.Aldarion

It's really annoying now with this law, everybody in my family got to practice on their own and now I can't. You have to get somebody with a license and free time to just sit there while you clock hours of driving up. It's not like they even say anything sitting beside me, apart from normal conversation, and you have to book their time. Other people would find it far more difficult than me to find somebody to go out with them too. I would like to see some sort of interim 'diploma' that allows you to drive on your own, that you can try and get if you want to. Then you can go on towards the test. As for us learners being safe, it's people with full licences that are far more unsafe and cocky than me. See such terrible driving every day, don't know how these people are allowed to drive. At least as a learner we are quite cautious and rigidly stick to the rules, well I do! Boy racers are a plague though.

Stark

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

I would like to see some sort of interim 'diploma' that allows you to drive on your own, that you can try and get if you want to. Then you can go on towards the test.

Our driving test is what counts for the "interim diploma" step in most other countries. 30 mins of driving around housing estates on a clear dry day to just show that you have the basic skills needed to not kill someone immediately on driving out of the test centre, I don't see how you could dumb it down any further.

forkassed

I think the guards understand the whole system is laughable and dont enforce the laws in each case..

I mean ffs..

I tried to apply for a test recently and the RSA website came back with a "record not found" error when i put in my driver number and name.

I e-mailed the RSA with a query in relation to this and after about a week and a half they reply with the suggestion that maybe i spelt my name incorrectly:rolleyes:.

A couple of mails sent back since, without reply.. So its back to the old reliable snail mail and im pretty sure the €75 will get lost somehow by the incompetent folk @RSA.

My NCT is up for renewal this month. I phone them and because of new laws brought in there is a backlog and the earliest date available is 21st November.


It really is not worth getting upset about. Its a joke

Tar.Aldarion

Stark wrote: »

Our driving test is what counts for the "interim diploma" step in most other countries. 30 mins of driving around housing estates on a clear dry day to just show that you have the basic skills needed to not kill someone immediately on driving out of the test centre, I don't see how you could dumb it down any further.

I dunno, it seems very easy, I think it should have more tested but anyway...
I'll probably fail for some reason.

Just think if you do a required amount of lessons with somebody that would have the 'power' to allow you to drive on your own or something it would be nice. Just my random ideas :S

Permabear

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Tar.Aldarion

Make the cost of it make poeple suffer. Make people want to get a licence because of the benefit. Put a short time limit on it, give poeple only one. Dunno, was just an idea!

Stark

Provisional drivers already carry an insurance loading but that hasn't been sufficient motivation for them to go out and do a test.

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Make the cost of it make poeple suffer. Make people want to get a licence because of the benefit. Put a short time limit on it, give poeple only one. Dunno, was just an idea!

That was the idea behind letting people drive unaccompanied on their second provisional. It didn't work.

Tar.Aldarion

That's because we simply get cheap insurance as a 'named driver' etc. I would not blink having to hand over that money, it was so cheap. For a girl you can get it free. Admittedly some people don't have my option and pay quite a bit and it would/would not motivate different people. It's a matter of sufficient motivation such as if you don't pass your test by your second provisional being up, you can never get a licence, or some well thought out idea! If it is not moticvation enough as you suggest you add more stringent policies. Which I suppose this one is, I jsut don't care for it.

galwaybob

The Guards should be ashamed of themselves.

Permabear

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galwaybob

donegalfella wrote: »

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The country awash with scumbags who never receive justice and they are talking about giving a fella 3 months for no L plates.
Its all a money making racket anyway. What difference is an L plate or a passenger with a license going to make if someone wants to drive around like a lunatic.:rolleyes:

Permabear

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Stark

3 months of what for driving around with no L-plates? Prison time, driving ban? Have heard nothing of this.

galwaybob wrote:

What difference is an L plate or a passenger with a license going to make if someone wants to drive around like a lunatic. :rolleyes:

The licensed passenger is there to provide coaching so the driver isn't driving around like a lunatic. The L-plate is there to warn other road users that the person driving is unqualified and to take appropriate care.

Bad driving should be tackled in its own right, not used as an excuse for everyone else to flout the law. "Aww but why do I have to obey the traffic lights when there are people out there drinking and speeding yadda yadda". Once we go down that road, then everything goes to ****. (Not that it isn't already happening).

donegalfella wrote:

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Indeed. People whining that an accompanying driver makes no difference should take a look at the number of accidents involving learner drivers over here and the number in other countries. In fact in most countries, it's free to add a learner driver to your insurance as the insurance company knows that you'll be in the car with them and the risk is small. Over here it carries a larger loading than someone with a full license due to the risks involved.

Permabear

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bladespin

donegalfella wrote: »

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I'd imagine they'd get the message after the first conviction.

Permabear

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galwaybob

Let me clarify..The Guards should be ashamed of themselves for pursuing this money making racket at the behest of that gang of parasites in the dail. Instead of pursuing the kind of scumbag that breaks into your house, rapes your granny and then robs your playstation.

Tar.Aldarion

galwaybob wrote: »

Let me clarify..The Guards should be ashamed of themselves for pursuing this money making racket at the behest of that gang of parasites in the dail. Instead of pursuing the kind of scumbag that breaks into your house, rapes your granny and then robs your playstation.

I imagine they persue both.

galwaybob

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

I imagine they persue both.

They dont have the man power.
You might want to take a look at some recent crime statistics.

Permabear

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galwaybob

This kind of work is not exclusively the job of the traffic corps and regardless we are talking about a misuse of resources no matter what way you dress it up.

Tar.Aldarion

galwaybob wrote: »

This kind of work is not exclusively the job of the traffic corps and regardless we are talking about a misuse of resources no matter what way you dress it up.

So which crimes should be ignored and which shouldn't be? Surely robbery should be ignored for murders and rapes?

galwaybob

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

So which crimes should be ignored and which shouldn't be? Surely robbery should be ignored for murders and rapes?

What!

All I am saying is Garda resources would be better spent investigating serious crime instead of tormenting people on learner permits who in most cases do their best to drive carefully and are on a waiting list for a test.

Permabear

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Alanstrainor

galwaybob wrote: »

What!

All I am saying is Garda resources would be better spent investigating serious crime instead of tormenting people on learner permits who in most cases do their best to drive carefully and are on a waiting list for a test.

I think it should be noted that the Gardai have said that they are not out specifically to target unaccompanied drivers, if however you are stopped at a check point, or a traffic corps car pulls you over when he sees a learner with no accompanying driver then fair enough.
It's not as if gardai say, okay, let's forget about murders for a week while we tackle drink drivers etc that's just not how it works.

Stark

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

So which crimes should be ignored and which shouldn't be? Surely robbery should be ignored for murders and rapes?

Of course not. Galwaybob's not into that at the moment. If he was, he'd be complaining that the guards are persecuting the poor safe sensible robbers like himself and letting the ones who rape the house owners go.

galwaybob

A quick calculation based on the data provided reveals the chances of getting caught on any given week are less than 0.01%. With those kind of odds you would be a fool not to take your chances and let the cops go <SNIP> themselves.

TwoShedsJackson

galwaybob wrote: »

A quick calculation based on the data provided reveals the chances of getting caught on any given week are less than 0.01%. With those kind of odds you would be a fool not to take your chances and let the cops go fcuk themselves.

You do realise that enforcing traffic laws will make the roads safer and reduce the risk of people killing or crippling themselves and others, right?

mark renton

This is rubbish, a way of trying to use fear to get people to apply for and sit more driving tests, which make the government a nice earner at a time of need

I was stopped only last week - no L plates (as I find it impossible not to get out of the car at eejits who use their horn just because they see an L plate) and Provisional licence, and Garda didnt seem too bothered - usual 60 spot fine and 1 point, but no 1k fine (for different offence)

Stark

john47832 wrote: »

This is rubbish, a way of trying to use fear to get people to apply for and sit more driving tests, which make the government a nice earner at a time of need

The driver testing system costs more money to run than is received through test fees. A lot more.

Permabear

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mark renton

Stark wrote: »

The driver testing system costs more money to run than is received through test fees. A lot more.

Yea right - 40 lids miminum for less than 1 hour, and with no shortage of people - average test centre would probably get through 20 per day @40 = 800 quid a day, thats 4k a week per test centre

Now tell me how much does it cost per week to run a driving centre, its not as if Driving Tester is a highly skilled job and demands a large salary

Cuddlesworth

john47832 wrote: »

Yea right - 40 lids miminum for less than 1 hour, and with no shortage of people - average test centre would probably get through 20 per day @40 = 800 quid a day, thats 4k a week per test centre

Now tell me how much does it cost per week to run a driving centre, its not as if Driving Tester is a highly skilled job and demands a large salary

Insurance for testers alone would be at least 2k a week, then wages, utility bills, property rental etc.

Do you have any idea how much its costs to run even a very small company with five people or less in this country?

mark renton

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Insurance for testers alone would be at least 2k a week, then wages, utility bills, property rental etc.

100k a year - I doubt it

galwaybob

The high failure rate in driving test centers is probably driven by the reality that the more they fail the more money they make.

Cookie_Monster

paper wrote:

Conviction of a first offence carries a fine of up to €1,000.

More quality reporting, 1st offence carries a minimum fine of €1000, not maximum

galwaybob

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

More quality reporting, 1st offence carries a minimum fine of €1000, not maximum

How could someone on the dole pay that?

ztoical

galwaybob wrote: »

How could someone on the dole pay that?

How could someone on the dole afford a car?

If your not willing to pay the fines when caught breaking the law, don't break the law!

galwaybob

ztoical wrote: »

How could someone on the dole afford a car?

If your not willing to pay the fines when caught breaking the law, don't break the law!

If only life was that simple.

Bogger77

galwaybob wrote: »

How could someone on the dole pay that?

don't commit the crime, if you can't afford the penalty.

quite simple, really.

Bogger77

galwaybob wrote: »

If only life was that simple.

life is simple.
1) Got a car, pay insurance and road tax
2) Got a learners permit, then arrange for accompanying driver.

if you cannot afford 1, and cant be bothered about 2, then dont whinge if/when caught.

mark renton

:rolleyes:

so your saying the punishment fits the crime here??

ztoical

john47832 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

so your saying the punishment fits the crime here??

The punishment is a large fine, seems fitting to me......you'd rather jail time?

Actually given that you can get a large fine and/or jail time for not having a tv license, a fine for driving alone/without L plates might be a little weak.