3 now launching NBS areas with absolutely no coverage

cowboy1981

According to the latest updates on their website, 3 have "launched" NBS to quite a number of Electoral Districts around the Limerick area. The 3 coverage checker, also on their own website shows these areas as having almost no coverage, even by their own optimistic standards. I have spotted one "launched" Electoral District which has absolutely no coverage whatsoever - Caherelly Electoral District (127038). There may be others if you check the maps.

If these areas have no 3G coverage, it must be assumed that a satellite service is being offered to all customers throughout the region? How can 3 get away with such large areas of non-coverage and stay within the 8% satellite target? Has anyone succeeded in getting the Satellite service yet? Does it conform with the specification published, given that the original satellite is not due to be launched until next year?

Clearly, 3 are panicking and painting areas of the map green without building any network, in order to meet some commitment that they have made to the Government. They probably hope no-one will notice.

...they need to know that we are watching them.

watty

A) Three's maps have always been hugely optimistic compared with Vodafone.
There is no Satellite service and no delivery date for one.

Frankly I don't believe any of the maps for Indoor coverage, it's too good compared to outdoor coverage and the Analysis Mason are only paid 400 Eur an ED. Not enough to go out and confirm the Indoor Coverage edge contour.

IMO only Indoor coverage counts for NBS. I also want a photo of A "Home Repeater" install. Unless it's an outdoor box high up, it's not adding to indoor coverage.

cowboy1981

watty wrote: »

A) Three's maps have always been hugely optimistic compared with Vodafone.
There is no Satellite service and no delivery date for one.

How are you so sure there is no Satellite service? Although the original satellite is delayed until next year, surely they have had to take an existing satellite in order to get the service launched? Has anyone with no 3G coverage tried to get satellite?

Sponge Bob

Only 5% of the population of a live ED may be offered satellite. To comply with the terms of the NBS there must be a 3g service for 95% OF THE POPULATION of a Live ED.

watty

Avanti have an existing transponder rented for EXISTING UK /Europe mainland customers.

But it has very little capacity and needs a 1.2m dish at least in the West.


3 would need a contract with someone else. You can of course get Satellite without NBS from a real ISP. Price and speed is dropping and if EutelSat's KaSat (3 Irish spot beams, I think) is a success in maybe 9 months, then the 3/NBS satellite service will be 1/3rd speed and lower cap for same price. Three simply chose the absolute cheapest offer on the market, perhaps without looking closely at track record, size of company and realism of the plans.

There is very little capacity available on Satellite for Ireland. Other operators (competitors to NBS) have it already. They can't be amused that NBS is offering a free install to compete with their better & established service. No ED is without existing satellite service. It should be a fixed install subsidy and you go to Satellite operator of your choice. Three know nothing about providing a Satellite service. They don't even have a good track record as an ISP. They are a Mobile Phone Company!

cowboy1981

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Only 5% of the population of a live ED may be offered satellite. To comply with the terms of the NBS there must be a 3g service for 95% OF THE POPULATION of a Live ED.

Do you have a reference where this commitment is made?

The details on the web seem to suggest that only 92% need be on 3G at a National level. This would mean that they could still have some EDs with 100% satellite, providing there were others with >92% 3G.

Sponge Bob

cowboy1981 wrote: »

Do you have a reference where this commitment is made?

Nope , this is based on 3 roadshows where they said so. The tender was 92% but the final deal was 95% . 3 will leave around 100-150 EDs undone at the end of all this and will not claim or get paid for them. I was told this by a suryeyor they hired .

The details on the web seem to suggest that only 92% need be on 3G at a National level. This would mean that they could still have some EDs with 100% satellite, providing there were others with >92% 3G.

I assure you it is per ED . 3 have €80m to do some 1000 EDs , that is about €80k per ED. As soon as they and Mason ( the consultants) certify that an ED is live ...meaning 95% of the population are getting 3g .... then Ryan shells out €80k .

As for that HYLAS satellite or the single 30mbit transponder in its place , don't make me laugh

cowboy1981

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I assure you it is per ED . 3 have €80m to do some 1000 EDs , that is about €80k per ED. As soon as they and Mason ( the consultants) certify that an ED is live ...meaning 95% of the population are getting 3g .... then Ryan shells out €80k .

As for that HYLAS satellite or the single 30mbit transponder in its place , don't make me laugh

The OS maps show each individual building. It should be quite easy to demonstrate by a desk-check with the 3 coverage map in each ED that they are failing to meet the 95% spec in large number of EDs. It just means counting the buildings - a bit tedious. It seems amazing that they already painting some of these zero coverage EDs green(live). You would think that they would wait until the end of the installation programme before revealing the EDs with zero coverage. It has to be possible to challenge this.

Sponge Bob

I explained to whom you should complain about this kind of fraud ( and how) here

If the suspects named in that post do not promptly withdraw their fraudulent assertions then I will gladly give you some other email addresses in the EU Commission ( who pay half the €80k for each ED ) and in the Department of Finance .

cowboy1981

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I explained to whom you should complain about this kind of fraud ( and how) here

If the suspects named in that post do not promptly withdraw their fraudulent assertions then I will gladly give you some other email addresses in the EU Commission ( who pay half the €80k for each ED ) and in the Department of Finance .

The Irish Civil Servants and their consultants all have a vested interest in covering up this debacle, since they conspired to select 3 to deliver NBS. If they admit that NBS isn't working, they will be admitting that they made a big mistake in the selection process. Civil Servants will never admit to a mistake.

The only way to show this up is to expose to the EU Commission to the fact that EU Funds are being misused.

Sponge Bob

First you need to email them and ask whether

1. They have received a request for payment for that ED ( and a nearby one that is live) .
2. Whether they have received confirmation it is live from their consultants , Analysis Mason .

A reply in the affirmative or a refusal to reply shall suffice . A reply in the negative means you ask them again the following month until they reply in the affirmative or refuse .

watty

Three's own coverage maps are amazing compared with Vodafone's. Maybe their masts are x2 to x3 taller?

cowboy1981

watty wrote: »

Three's own coverage maps are amazing compared with Vodafone's. Maybe their masts are x2 to x3 taller?

In general, I agree - their coverage maps look ridiculously over-optimistic.

However, they still show Caherelly ED as having zero outdoor or indoor 3G coverage on their own map, while having it green and listed as "launched" on their NBS map. How can it be "launched" if it is 100% satellite?

foggy_lad

cowboy1981 wrote: »

In general, I agree - their coverage maps look ridiculously over-optimistic.

However, they still show Caherelly ED as having zero outdoor or indoor 3G coverage on their own map, while having it green and listed as "launched" on their NBS map. How can it be "launched" if it is 100% satellite?

it is very possible they have increased capacity on masts serving this area and have not yet updated their own 3g coverage map but have marked the NBS map green to show how good they are.

i saw this information and i am stumped as to how three are going to guarantee 5mbps speeds in the middle of any cell area or 1.2mbps at edge of cell areas
http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Communications/Communications+Development/NBS+FAQs#Speeds

What product will be offered under the NBS?

3, the NBS Service Provider, will extend its network to provide mobile wireless broadband services into the NBS area. The mobile broadband service (I-HSPA) will have a minimum download speed of 1.2Mbps and a minimum upload speed of 200kpbs with a contention ratio of 36:1.

In recognition of the fact that some areas will be very costly and difficult to reach, in a very limited number of cases, 3 will make available a satellite product of 1Mbps download and 128kbps upload. This will cover up to a maximum of 8% of fixed residences and businesses in the NBS coverage area.

The products will be upgraded to higher specifications during the contract term without any increase in the monthly recurring charge.


What speeds can subscribers expect at launch?

Wireless Mobile (I-HSPA)Min (at cell edge)Max (at cell centre)
Download Speed 1.2Mbps 5Mbps
Upload Speed 200kbps 1.8Mbps

Maximum contention ratio of 36:1

Round-trip latency: 120ms

Satellite Min Max

Download Speed 1Mbps 1Mbps

Upload Speed 128kbps 128kbps

Maximum contention ratio of 48:1

Round-trip latency: 800ms

this is also on the same page

The Department has in place a rigorous monitoring mechanism and actively monitors 3’s performance and compliance with contractual obligations under the NBS contract. The Department has recourse to a number of controls to ensure compliance with contractual commitments.

watty

There is no "rigorous" Monitoring. Analysis Masion gets 400 Eur per ED to look at 3's Mast data.

Our man in Havana

You must deal with Mumbai if you have a problem with your NBS service, I seriously doubt there are any enginners going to call to fix the problems.