The Origin of Species - Charles Darwin

BossArky

I just finished The Origin of Species by Darwin.

The man was undoubtedly a brainbox and contributed immensenly to science. Unfortunately I found this book / paper rather tough going.

Luckily he included short summary's at the end of each chapter.

Thoughts / opinions?

Malari

BossArky wrote: »

I just finished The Origin of Species by Darwin.

The man was undoubtedly a brainbox and contributed immensenly to science. Unfortunately I found this book / paper rather tough going.

Luckily he included short summary's at the end of each chapter.

Thoughts / opinions?

It is tough going! Especially for a non-biologist, which I'm guessing you might be? I've read dozens of books on evolution but I found Steve Jones' Almost Like a Whale a really good follow-up to the Origin. It kind of goes through the same layout Darwin used in his book but without the heavy prose and with different examples.

nc6000

BossArky wrote: »

I just finished The Origin of Species by Darwin.

The man was undoubtedly a brainbox and contributed immensenly to science. Unfortunately I found this book / paper rather tough going.

Luckily he included short summary's at the end of each chapter.

Thoughts / opinions?

Yikes!!! Well done. How long did it take you to read it?

Yah, it's a tough read alright. When I read it, I found myself looking up references on the internet every couple of pages.

You should consider reading one/both of Darwin's other Greats if you enjoyed On the Origin. I found The Voyage of the Beagle to be as good/better than On the Origin.

The three books are great reads, though.

BossArky

Malari wrote: »

It is tough going! Especially for a non-biologist, which I'm guessing you might be? I've read dozens of books on evolution but I found Steve Jones' Almost Like a Whale a really good follow-up to the Origin. It kind of goes through the same layout Darwin used in his book but without the heavy prose and with different examples.

Almost like a whale - I guess that is a more modern text? If so I will keep an eye out for it. The writing style in Origin of Species was pretty heavy.

nc6000 wrote: »

Yikes!!! Well done. How long did it take you to read it?

Started back in April I think and read it on and off. I'd recommend tackling it a chapter at a time between lighter material.

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

Yah, it's a tough read alright. When I read it, I found myself looking up references on the internet every couple of pages.

You should consider reading one/both of Darwin's other Greats if you enjoyed On the Origin. I found The Voyage of the Beagle to be as good/better than On the Origin.

Thanks, I will check those out... once I've recovered from Origin

Malari

BossArky wrote: »

Almost like a whale - I guess that is a more modern text? If so I will keep an eye out for it. The writing style in Origin of Species was pretty heavy.

Yep, it was written about 10 years ago I'd say. Steve Jones is a geneticist but has a very approachable reading style. He's written a modern version of the Descent of Man too (for when you get through the rest of your evolution reading list )

John

I thought On the Origin of Species was one of the more accessible science books out there, I flew through it (and later became a biologist). The Descent of Man is a whole different kettle of fish though, very very heavy going.

ocianain

If you read Descent of Man be sure to get an unexpurgated version. In origins Darwin "showed" how natural selection pushed plant an animal life; in Descent he argues human evolution via natural selection. Not real pretty, recent issues sometimes have the most racist passages removed (which changes the tone/purpose of the book in the first place) some trace eugenics/genocide to Descent, see, War Against the Weak by, Edwin Black

994

Darwin's a bit out of date by now! "Life Ascending" by Nick Lane gives you the cutting edge of modern evolutionary ideas.

ocianain

994 wrote: »

Darwin's a bit out of date by now! "Life Ascending" by Nick Lane gives you the cutting edge of modern evolutionary ideas.[/quote

With all due respect, he's not at all. To see how true this is criticize natural selection (his contribution to evolutionary theory) and watch the true believers rise to his defense. Darwinism also has a political component, as one can see in, War Against the Weak.

John

Darwin's natural selection is not quite what is taught in biology now but it is mostly unchanged since the publication of On the Origins of Species. It's an important step he took and it's well worth reading the book to see what he actually said as opposed to what you're told he said.

ocianain

John wrote: »

Darwin's natural selection is not quite what is taught in biology now but it is mostly unchanged since the publication of On the Origins of Species. It's an important step he took and it's well worth reading the book to see what he actually said as opposed to what you're told he said.

I agree, I read Origins, Descent and Voyage.

mikhail

ocianain wrote: »

With all due respect, he's not at all. To see how true this is criticize natural selection (his contribution to evolutionary theory) and watch the true believers rise to his defense. Darwinism also has a political component, as one can see in, War Against the Weak.

As I understand it, his ideas have been iteratively improved by other biologists since, but certainly the core ideas are important. There are more accessible books on evolution out there. Origin of the Species is important mostly for historical purposes.

ocianain

True enough, science doesn't stand still; but, Darwins contribution, undirected change in all directions, natural selection as the culling force in evolution, remains unchallenged. Thr racism in Descent also remains uncommented upon as well as unrefuted

Tim Robbins

BossArky wrote: »

I just finished The Origin of Species by Darwin.

The man was undoubtedly a brainbox and contributed immensenly to science. Unfortunately I found this book / paper rather tough going.

Luckily he included short summary's at the end of each chapter.

Thoughts / opinions?

I completly agree. It's a very tough read.

Dawkins's books are the real literacy masterpieces of evolution and natural selection. They are superb. Read 'The Selfish Gene'. The real genuis of Darwin was he made bold claims in The Origin of Species which challenged convential thinking and establishments. He did this without complete evidence. For example, no-one knew about DNA or the genetic structure of any species. This evidence confirmed what he postulated in 'Origin of Species' was true.

John

It's not like he had no evidence though, he did not want to publish until he had lots and lots of evidence to back things up. He didn't have to know about DNA or genes to explain natural selection (otherwise he wouldn't have written the book); these are the vectors for evolution but not the forces which act to cause evolution (natural selection, sexual selection, etc.).

Tim Robbins

John wrote: »

It's not like he had no evidence though, he did not want to publish until he had lots and lots of evidence to back things up. He didn't have to know about DNA or genes to explain natural selection (otherwise he wouldn't have written the book); these are the vectors for evolution but not the forces which act to cause evolution (natural selection, sexual selection, etc.).

Not quite. The mutations happen in the DNA as it's being copied, in a random nature. Without full knowledge of DNA and genes, it's difficult explain random mutations... which is 50% of evolution. The other 50%, non-random selection by nature - Darwin could explain.

dioltas

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I completly agree. It's a very tough read.

Dawkins's books are the real literacy masterpieces of evolution and natural selection. They are superb. Read 'The Selfish Gene'. The real genuis of Darwin was he made bold claims in The Origin of Species which challenged convential thinking and establishments. He did this without complete evidence. For example, no-one knew about DNA or the genetic structure of any species. This evidence confirmed what he postulated in 'Origin of Species' was true.

Just finished that myself a few weeks ago. Haven't read The Origin of Species, but the selfish gene is a good read.

ocianain

How can DNA be selfish? How can an intentionality be ascribed to DNA?

Malari

ocianain wrote: »

How can DNA be selfish? How can an intentionality be ascribed to DNA?

It's ascribed to make the idea of gene-centric natural selection easier to understand. It doesn't, of course, mean that a certain section of DNA is intentionally selfish.

Incidentally, selfish DNA is a different thing in genetics!

Tim Robbins

ocianain wrote: »

How can DNA be selfish? How can an intentionality be ascribed to DNA?

We tend to think of evolution in terms of animals, life forms such as plants and species.

Dawkins goes a much deeper level and looks at it at the level of the gene. The consequences of looking at it this way are very interesting.

One of friends read God Delusion and Selfish Gene and he said it was Selfish gene that made him loose his faith.

dioltas

Ya, he's not actually saying DNA is selfish or that it has any motives at all, no more that a table can be shelfish. He kind of stresses that actually. It is a great read though, maybe a small bit boring at times but overall very interesting. Was going to try the God Delusion, but thought it might be a bit boring, The Selfish gene appealed to me a bit more.