Vasovagal Syncope

az2wp0sye65487

Hi,

I've searched Boards for this, but can't find any threads so thought I'd start a new one.

Please see the links to explain what Vasovagal Syncope is if you are not familiar with it.

Link 1
Link 2

I never heard of it at all until last year when I ended up in hospital for a few days while I was being investigated for seizures & possible heart problems. Turns out it was just this!

Anyway, the main time it affects me is at the dentist. Now even the thoughts of going to the dentist makes my skin crawl, as I'm sure it does with a lot of people; but, getting the needle in the gum & actually getting the work done doesn't bother me...

It's weird. I seem to be affected during the waiting time between getting the needle to numb the area and havng the dental work done.

Just this week I went for a filling. I was in the chair, he gave me the needle, (not pleasant, but bearable) then he said "OK that will take about 10 minutes before the area is fully numb, go and take a seat outside and I'll call you back in" - So I got up, went back to the waiting area and sat down, about 30 seconds after sitting down I started seeing spots and became light-headed. I knew what was going to happen. I had to go back into the dentist and tell him I was feeling faint. He sat me in the chair and tilted it back, I felt OK then after a couple of minutes.

A similar thing happened a couple of years ago. The O/H was sick, and we were in the A&E department waiting to be seen. The doctor decided to take some blood from her. As soon as this started I had to walk outside. My legs were weak, I was outside the hospital bent over trying to breathe so as not to faint!

There are numerous other occasions I could go on about where I have actually passed out, or have come close to it for different reasons.

This is getting embarrassing! I am completely useless in any sort of emergency. If something happens, I pass out!

Anyway, I was lucky in the dentist's office the other day, as he had no other patients that afternoon, and the chair was free when I stumbled back in! (Some of them give you your injection, send you out to wait and then call another patient in while you're waiting)

So my questions are these:
Does this happen to anyone else here?
Do you have a specific way of dealing with it? (I know lying down and elevating your legs works for me, but the problem is that's not always practical).

Sorry about the long post, but thanks for reading.

tallaght01

i think this is better suited to here.

DrIndy

i agree - but if you want to discuss the medical reasons why this happens - feel free to repost a topic in Bio/Med. You will get more support and discussion on this in LTI.

az2wp0sye65487

tallaght01 wrote: »

i think this is better suited to here.

DrIndy wrote: »

i agree - but if you want to discuss the medical reasons why this happens - feel free to repost a topic in Bio/Med. You will get more support and discussion on this in LTI.

Thanks. I know it's not a 'serious' illness in a sense, and it would only affect me maybe once or twice a year, if even. It'd still be nice to know of any others in the same boat!

_Whimsical_

Hi Steviecakes. I have Vasovagal Syncope as a symptom of another long term illness. I have the same kind of symptoms as you although mine seems to be brought on solely by standing up too much rather than by occasions of stress. Sometimes when I feel very ill as part of my condition I can hardly stand up at all. Just going from my bed to the bathroom can bring it on. Other times when I'm a bit better just short occasions of standing up can bring it on...for example there's no way I could cook and stand in front of the cooker for long or hang around in a queue in a shop for. Then there are times when it's not as severe and it happens less frequently. It's a really horrible and scarey feeling. Stress does make it worse as well Life is also pretty crap knowing that you're less physically equipped to deal with stressful situations... you have to worry about what is happening around you and you have to worry about whether or not you can physically cope with it!

I've tried lots of medications and none have helped it...infact some have just made it much worse. The only effective way I've found to cope with it is to try very hard to stay very calm and relaxed as much as possible and to try and avoid or make contingencies for situations that might bring it on eg. have someone with me or ensure if I'm going out that I can get back to the car very quickly and lie down in the back seat etc.

The only other thing that has helped is to include more salt and water in my diet. Salt consumption increases the amount of water your body retains so it increases your blood volume. As blood pressure drops are the cause of syncope,just having some extra blood volume can help you and sometimes prevent it. I usually make sure I have some salt and some water with me at all times because when I'm feeling bad just a bit of salt and drinking some water can help a little. It's mainly important to include more salt in your diet though. Some people find regularly drinking sports hydration drinks like Gatorade and Lucozade Sport can help in the same way too.Wether salt might help you or not would depend on wether or not you have low or high blood pressure usually. If you normally have high blood pressure it might not be good. You should ask your doctor what your baseline blood pressure is.
Another thing that can help is wearing special compression tights or stockings (I know...sexy!). They're medical garmets so they are made for men and women. They can stop the blood from pooling in your legs when you're feeling faint and can increase your blood pressure a little so they can prevent a faint in some people. I find they can make my symptoms less severe sometimes. You can buy special bands that compress your abdomen that can help in that way too.

Have you come across www.dinet.org yet? It is a brilliant website for people with autonomic illnesses and covers vasovagal syncope (they call it neurocardiogenic syncope) . There is lots of information on drug treatments that might help on the site and the forum they have is honestly a life saver.No matter what weird symptom you're having on how disillusioned and sick of the condition you are, you will always find a supportive and helpful ear there. As there is so little offered by modern medicine for this condition you can really learn alot from reading about the small tips and tricks other people have found helped them . It helps you feel less alone with all too.

Cade Salty Percussionist wrote: »

Just this week I went for a filling. I was in the chair, he gave me the needle, (not pleasant, but bearable) then he said "OK that will take about 10 minutes before the area is fully numb, go and take a seat outside and I'll call you back in" - So I got up, went back to the waiting area and sat down, about 30 seconds after sitting down I started seeing spots and became light-headed. I knew what was going to happen. I had to go back into the dentist and tell him I was feeling faint. He sat me in the chair and tilted it back, I felt OK then after a couple of minutes.
.

This I think I can help with!
I had the same problem at the dentist too and so do alot of people with illnesses like VVS. It's usually caused by the fact that there is adrenaline in the most common dental anesthetics. That causes your heart to beat faster etc and for your body to have an adrenaline response. As your VVS is very sensitive to stress I bet it is also very sensitive to adrenaline. Most people with these illnesses cannot tolerate it at all. However dentists can also use a non adrenaline injection for anesthesia. It works just the same as the normal injection but I found it totally revolutionised my trips to the dentist.I used to get so ill after the injection that I'd be very faint,ill and sometimes be sick.With the non adrenaline injection I have none of these symptoms. From reading up on it I've found that lots of people have found the same thing. Next time you go to the dentist ask for the non adrenaline injection and hopefully you will find the same thing.

az2wp0sye65487

chilly wrote: »

This I think I can help with!
I had the same problem at the dentist too and so do alot of people with illnesses like VVS. It's usually caused by the fact that there is adrenaline in the most common dental anesthetics. That causes your heart to beat faster etc and for your body to have an adrenaline response. As your VVS is very sensitive to stress I bet it is also very sensitive to adrenaline. Most people with these illnesses cannot tolerate it at all. However dentists can also use a non adrenaline injection for anesthesia. It works just the same as the normal injection but I found it totally revolutionised my trips to the dentist.I used to get so ill after the injection that I'd be very faint,ill and sometimes be sick.With the non adrenaline injection I have none of these symptoms. From reading up on it I've found that lots of people have found the same thing. Next time you go to the dentist ask for the non adrenaline injection and hopefully you will find the same thing.

Thanks for the reply. I mentioned to the dentist before we began that I had a history of fainting when getting injections etc (I mentioned the name vasovagal but he just looked blankly at me!) and he said to me "I'll give you the anesthetic without adrenaline in it" ...... didn't work!

I don't look at it as an illness though. It rarely affects me. (ie - for half an hour when I've to go to the dentist but that's about it!) I never feel sick/faint/tired - I go to the gym and lift weights, run, cycle, swim. The only times it would happen is going to the dentist. I don't know why! I don't have to take any medication, I feel normal all the time. There are occasions when it has happened over the years but it is a rarity. I'm just frustrated I suppose! What I can't understand either is how it only comes on a couple of minutes after getting the injection? The pain is over at that stage!

Sinall

I have this and for me, it is triggered by kneeling (the amount of times I was carried out of mass!) and leaning forward at a certain angle, for example it has happened in restaurants and the cinema. Lying down is the only thing that helps me but sometimes its too late. I try to lie down as soon as I feel the symptoms coming on. I go through stages where this has happened frequently and have sustained a few facial injuries as a result! But then I can have stages (of a number of months!) where it doesn't happen at all. I try to avoid kneeling at all costs or sitting on benches where I have to lean forward towards a table.

_Whimsical_

Cade Salty Percussionist wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. I mentioned to the dentist before we began that I had a history of fainting when getting injections etc (I mentioned the name vasovagal but he just looked blankly at me!) and he said to me "I'll give you the anesthetic without adrenaline in it" ...... didn't work!

I don't look at it as an illness though. It rarely affects me. (ie - for half an hour when I've to go to the dentist but that's about it!) I never feel sick/faint/tired - I go to the gym and lift weights, run, cycle, swim. The only times it would happen is going to the dentist. I don't know why! I don't have to take any medication, I feel normal all the time. There are occasions when it has happened over the years but it is a rarity. I'm just frustrated I suppose! What I can't understand either is how it only comes on a couple of minutes after getting the injection? The pain is over at that stage!

Well damn. Thats a pity about the injection.
Maybe it's something else in it that's causing your reaction. The non adrenaline one made an enormous difference to me.

VVS isn't exactly an illness as such unless it's severe. It's more of a condition I suppose.For some people it's just a rare occurance and doesn't bother them too much, for other people it's a severe and regular occurance and for other people it's regular and a symptom of ongoing illness such as autonomic illnesses. It's good that yours is not regular. Maybe as you've mentioned that severe stress is a trigger for you, you could find some new ways of dealing with major stresses. That might help just remove the trigger.
AS for the dentist I don't know what you can do. Maybe if make appointments at a quiet time in the surgery you could then ask to be allowed to lie down in the dentists chair while you wait for the anesthetic to kick in rather than go to the waiting room. Lying down is generally the most effective way to avoid syncope.

_Whimsical_

Sinall wrote: »

I have this and for me, it is triggered by kneeling (the amount of times I was carried out of mass!) and leaning forward at a certain angle, for example it has happened in restaurants and the cinema. Lying down is the only thing that helps me but sometimes its too late. I try to lie down as soon as I feel the symptoms coming on. I go through stages where this has happened frequently and have sustained a few facial injuries as a result! But then I can have stages (of a number of months!) where it doesn't happen at all. I try to avoid kneeling at all costs or sitting on benches where I have to lean forward towards a table.

That must get very annoying. Is it difficult to judge exactly what angle will cause your symptoms? Is there anything that you think might triggers times where you have more frequent bouts of fainting?
I've read that magnesium supplements can help and I think they have helped me a bit but it's always hard to be sure.

Sinall

Kneeling at mass as a teenager was almost certain to cause it! I passed out in a restaurant in Dublin last year as there were benches to sit on which were fixed to the floor and I had to lean forward to reach the table.

If I have been working late a lot, or am under pressure it seems to be more frequent alright. It takes me a while to get over it as well, I feel weak for a day or so afterwards. In my early twenties it happened quite a bit. Now that I am 28 it happens maybe twice a year. I definitely find lying down the best way to prevent it from happening, if I can feel it coming on. Sometimes its not very practical just to have a lie down where ever I might be though!

Didn't know about the magnesium tablets, thanks for that!