Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Lisbon vote October 2nd - How do you intend to vote?

Options
1…116117119121122…127

Comments

  • Options
    #3542
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    yozzie wrote: »
    I'm entitled to my opinion, just like anyone else.

    The European Constitution [let's forget the BS about calling it a 'Treaty'] is a pile of steaming dog turd.

    I'm not European; it is not my nationality.
    My sovereign country, which is geographically located in Europe and trades in Europe, provides my nationality.

    I have zero desire to be a European citizen, beholding to a European superstate.

    Being in the EU is not dependent on agreeing to the proposed European Constitution. 'Europe' will not fall apart if the NO vote wins [for a second time].

    Re: stamina to keep it up.
    I can assure you my position will not change until I'm 6 feet under.
    Any time the subject is mentioned today, tomorrow, next week, next year or next decade; I will feel as strongly and as passionately about it, as I ever have.

    I can't decide, would you classify yourself as a Hard or a Soft No voter?


  • Options
    #3543
    Rb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭Rb


    yozzie wrote: »
    I'm entitled to my opinion, just like anyone else.

    The European Constitution [let's forget the BS about calling it a 'Treaty'] is a pile of steaming dog turd.

    I'm not European; it is not my nationality.
    My sovereign country, which is geographically located in Europe and trades in Europe, provides my nationality.

    I have zero desire to be a European citizen, beholding to a European superstate.

    Being in the EU is not dependent on agreeing to the proposed European Constitution. 'Europe' will not fall apart if the NO vote wins [for a second time].

    Re: stamina to keep it up.
    I can assure you my position will not change until I'm 6 feet under.
    Any time the subject is mentioned today, tomorrow, next week, next year or next decade; I will feel as strongly and as passionately about it, as I ever have.
    What will you do if the rest of Europe do press on, democratically, to become an Eu Superstate?


  • Options
    #3544
    Rb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭Rb


    johnwillnot wrote: »
    William Hague hopefully helping to change the Prime Minister's mind on the new EU Treaty.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6Cj1b-rp1E

    How come everyboby is talking about this job. Tony Blair will be president of Europe.
    Jaysis John, talk about beating the same drum, you're like a broken record at this stage.


  • Options
    #3545
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    johnwillnot wrote: »
    Tony Blair will be president of Europe.

    Even assuming you mean President of the European Council will you come back when the Council President is elected, whoever it is?


  • Options
    #3546
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    yozzie wrote: »
    I'm entitled to my opinion, just like anyone else.

    The European Constitution [let's forget the BS about calling it a 'Treaty'] is a pile of steaming dog turd.

    I'm not European; it is not my nationality.
    My sovereign country, which is geographically located in Europe and trades in Europe, provides my nationality.

    I have zero desire to be a European citizen, beholding to a European superstate.

    Being in the EU is not dependent on agreeing to the proposed European Constitution. 'Europe' will not fall apart if the NO vote wins [for a second time].

    Re: stamina to keep it up.
    I can assure you my position will not change until I'm 6 feet under.
    Any time the subject is mentioned today, tomorrow, next week, next year or next decade; I will feel as strongly and as passionately about it, as I ever have.

    Why don't you tell us what you really think?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #3547
    yozzie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12 ✭yozzie


    Rb wrote: »
    What will you do if the rest of Europe do press on, democratically, to become an Eu Superstate?
    Withdraw my consent to be governed.


  • Options
    #3548
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    johnwillnot wrote: »
    How come everyboby is talking about this job. Tony Blair will be president of Europe.


    No, he will not. It's unlikely he will even be President of the European Council.


  • Options
    #3549
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    Rb wrote: »
    Jaysis John, talk about beating the same drum, you're like a broken record at this stage.

    Johnwillnot is Alastair Campbell and I claim my 5 pounds.


  • Options
    #3550
    Peanut
    Registered Users Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭Peanut


    yozzie wrote: »
    Withdraw my consent to be governed.

    The 'Evil Empire' argument.

    Hey it would be great if every country was sufficiently well run that it could afford to isolate itself from the benefits of pooled resources.

    That may be true for your nation, I would be very reluctant to suggest that you can carry that over to the situation here.


  • Options
    #3551
    Rb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭Rb


    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »
    Johnwillnot is Alastair Campbell and I claim my 5 pounds.
    Lol.

    I forgot to mention that while on the way to college this morning, I saw a Coir canvasser standing at the entrance of Ballally Luas stop trying to hand people their vile propaganda, the only people I witnessed taking the leaflet were children who are obviously ineligble to vote, everyone else ignored her. Talk about a boost in confidence!


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #3552
    free-man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 350 ✭✭free-man


    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »
    Even assuming you mean President of the European Council will you come back when the Council President is elected, whoever it is?


    I presume he means that for now. Until they change the title / roles and responsibilities under article 48 with no need for a referendum in Ireland.


  • Options
    #3553
    yozzie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12 ✭yozzie


    Peanut wrote: »
    The 'Evil Empire' argument.

    Hey it would be great if every country was sufficiently well run that it could afford to isolate itself from the benefits of pooled resources.

    That may be true for your nation, I would be very reluctant to suggest that you can carry that over to the situation here.

    The 'NO vote means pulling out of the EU' argument.

    Who suggested not pooling resources?
    The 'EU' began life as an Economic Union.
    That's where it should have stayed.
    Working together for trade and other issues makes sense; becoming a superstate with a constitution that overides those of sovereign nation members, with one EU court, one EU parliament and one EU defence strategy doesn't.

    A 'NO' to the constitution does not mean a 'NO' to Europe; despite the 'YES' vote attempts to make it appear so.


  • Options
    #3554
    Rb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭Rb


    How many EU courts would you like?!

    Eleventy?!


  • Options
    #3555
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    free-man wrote: »
    I presume he means that for now. Until they change the title / roles and responsibilities under article 48 with no need for a referendum in Ireland.

    They can't do that.

    As you well know.


  • Options
    #3556
    fligedlyflick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 178 ✭✭fligedlyflick


    Rb wrote: »
    Lol.

    I forgot to mention that while on the way to college this morning, I saw a Coir canvasser standing at the entrance of Ballally Luas stop trying to hand people their vile propaganda, the only people I witnessed taking the leaflet were children who are obviously ineligble to vote, everyone else ignored her. Talk about a boost in confidence!


    maybe i should have mentioned the fianna fail councillors out yesterday, (dole day) standing at my local tescos picking out obvious families going there to buy some groceries with their job seekers allowance, i was fortunate enough to hear this bit.
    (fianna fail) -"hello sir, don't forget your vote tomorrow, vote yes and we'll get you and the likes of you back to work"
    (man) - "what do you mean?, the likes of me? unemployed? destitute? a drain on resources? depressed? i know your a woman but seriously, you have some balls to make that statement, you can stick that leaflet, fianna fail and the lisbon treaty up yer arse".

    another elderly woman said that they were downright sly coming to tescos on dole day trying to sell this job miracle.


  • Options
    #3557
    yozzie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12 ✭yozzie


    Rb wrote: »
    How many EU courts would you like?!

    Eleventy?!

    An EU court to resolve EU issues is fine ... Obviously if there are 27 member nations involved in trade and commerce, there needs to be an EU trade court to resolve any trade/economic related disputes. Makes sense.

    ... but an all powerful EU Supreme Court over ruling sovereign nation courts or dictating to sovereign nations?

    Why is that needed?


  • Options
    #3558
    free-man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 350 ✭✭free-man


    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »
    They can't do that.

    As you well know.

    Hm.. so is the below statement from the referendum commission false? Does it not reference the two and a half year term in the treaty?

    "There will be a new post of President of the European Council. The President would be elected (by qualified majority) by the European Council for a two and a half year term which is renewable once. The President would chair and co-ordinate the European Council’s work. The Treaty would set out the powers and rules relating to the European Council."

    - From the Referendum Commission

    So for the record your saying that nothing in article 48 (simplified revision procedure or ordinary revision procedure) would allow the European Council to increase the powers or term of the President of the European Council by simple majority after ratification by all member states in accordance with their respective constitutional requirements. As there is nothing in the constitution blocking this already this would not need to be put to a vote.


  • Options
    #3559
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,570 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    yozzie wrote: »
    An EU court to resolve EU issues is fine ... Obviously if there are 27 member nations involved in trade and commerce, there needs to be an EU trade court to resolve any trade/economic related disputes. Makes sense.

    ... but an all powerful EU Supreme Court over ruling sovereign nation courts or dictating to sovereign nations?

    Why is that needed?

    Because member states might be naughty


  • Options
    #3560
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    free-man wrote: »
    Hm.. so is the below statement from the referendum commission false? Does it not reference the two and a half year term in the treaty?

    "There will be a new post of President of the European Council. The President would be elected (by qualified majority) by the European Council for a two and a half year term which is renewable once. The President would chair and co-ordinate the European Council’s work. The Treaty would set out the powers and rules relating to the European Council."

    - From the Referendum Commission

    So for the record your saying that nothing in article 48 (simplified revision procedure or ordinary revision procedure) would allow the European Council to increase the powers or term of the President of the European Council by simple majority after ratification by all member states in accordance with their respective constitutional requirements. As there is nothing in the constitution blocking this already this would not need to be put to a vote.

    Foolish argument, backed up by false evidence. You originally mentioned nothing about 'extending the term' as evidenced by your post here:
    I presume he means that for now. Until they change the title / roles and responsibilities under article 48 with no need for a referendum in Ireland.

    See, you mention title, roles and responsibilities.

    Incidentally the term is not changed by article 48, but will be extendible by QMV, to 5 years if the holder is re-elected.

    Article 48, simplified revision procedure does not cover the roles or title of the council president, it refers to "Part Three of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union", whereas the title, roles and responsibilities of the Council President are set out in the "Treaty on European Union".

    The Ordinary Revision Procedure allows changes only to "increase or to reduce the competences conferred on the Union in the Treaties.", again nothing to do with the title, roles and responsibilities of the Council President.

    Oops...


  • Options
    #3561
    fligedlyflick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 178 ✭✭fligedlyflick


    marco_polo wrote: »
    So you have now voted no twice, because politicians whom you don't trust, didn't sponfeed you with information.


    i dared ask a politician during lisbon 1 what truth was in the neutrality argument, his answer......."that we'll have to send troops to iraq......or something like that", how's that for clarification.
    the point i'm making is that last time politicians admitted either if all europe had to vote they would vote against it or that they did'nt read it, so in essence they were asking us to vote on something thay had no clue about.
    as for lisbon 2, they must have published a 100 generic answers book to awkward questions relating to lisbon


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #3562
    tattoodublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 52 ✭✭tattoodublin


    Don't you read the news?, it's been out there for at least a month, its pretty well confirmed. If Lisbon treay is passed, within 3 to 4 weeks TONY BLAIR will be EU president ( unfortunatley I'm not kidding)


  • Options
    #3563
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    tattoodublin wrote: »
    Don't you read the news?, it's been out there for at least a month, its pretty well confirmed. If Lisbon treay is passed, within 3 to 4 weeks TONY BLAIR will be EU president ( unfortunatley I'm not kidding)

    Sounds like horsesh*t propaganda to influence our vote, to be quite honest.


  • Options
    #3564
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    tattoodublin wrote: »
    Don't you read the news?, it's been out there for at least a month, its pretty well confirmed. If Lisbon treay is passed, within 3 to 4 weeks TONY BLAIR will be EU president ( unfortunatley I'm not kidding)

    You may not be kidding, but you aren't recounting a fact either. There's no "President of the EU", and Tony Blair is a long way from being a shoo-in for the role of President of the European Council.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


  • Options
    #3565
    Mark200
    Registered Users Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭Mark200


    tattoodublin wrote: »
    Don't you read the news?, it's been out there for at least a month, its pretty well confirmed. If Lisbon treay is passed, within 3 to 4 weeks TONY BLAIR will be EU president ( unfortunatley I'm not kidding)

    You're not kidding, you're just wrong.

    I'm not saying he won't be president, but it is not "pretty well confirmed"


  • Options
    #3566
    free-man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 350 ✭✭free-man


    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »
    Foolish argument, backed up by false evidence. You originally mentioned nothing about 'extending the term' as evidenced by your post here:


    See, you mention title, roles and responsibilities.

    Incidentally the term is not changed by article 48, but will be extendible by QMV, to 5 years if the holder is re-elected.

    Article 48, simplified revision procedure does not cover the roles or title of the council president, it refers to "Part Three of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union", whereas the title, roles and responsibilities of the Council President are set out in the "Treaty on European Union".

    The Ordinary Revision Procedure allows changes only to "increase or to reduce the competences conferred on the Union in the Treaties.", again nothing to do with the title, roles and responsibilities of the Council President.

    I guess its too late for proper unbiased legal opinion on this. With all due respect.


  • Options
    #3567
    tattoodublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 52 ✭✭tattoodublin


    Yes, you're right, silly me, believeing all these stupid news reports (and so many more)

    http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23751711-irish-voters-go-to-polls-deciding-fate-of-eu-and-blair.do

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/6252869/Tony-Blair-in-line-for-EU-presidency.html

    http://uk.news.yahoo.com/11/20091002/tpl-blair-lined-up-for-eu-presidency-0a1c1a1.html

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/euro-star-could-tony-blair-become-the-first-eu-president-1792117.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1138757/President-Blair-Former-PM-set-EU-chief-Sarkozy-battles-win-post.html

    http://keeptonyblairforpm.wordpress.com/2009/06/20/president-blair-by-october/

    http://euobserver.com/9/27918

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/jul/29/tonyblair.eu

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/feb/02/world.politics


  • Options
    #3568
    yozzie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12 ✭yozzie


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    Because member states might be naughty
    So isn't that the role of the UN?


  • Options
    #3569
    yozzie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12 ✭yozzie


    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »
    Sounds like horsesh*t propaganda to influence our vote, to be quite honest.
    And stating the Lisbon Treaty will create jobs and the Ireland economy needs a YES vote, isn't propaganda to influence the vote?

    :rolleyes:


  • Options
    #3570
    johnwillnot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 36 ✭johnwillnot


    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »
    Sounds like horsesh*t propaganda to influence our vote, to be quite honest.

    He has been touted for the job even when he was still Prime Minister of Great Britain and months before most Irish people knew anything about the Lisbon treaty. Here is an article that appeared in the Financial Times on the 03/05/07 - http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4b7e16a2-f9a6-11db-9b6b-000b5df10621.html?nclick_check=1

    How do you explain that?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #3571
    akkadian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 291 ✭✭akkadian


    diaduit73 wrote: »
    don't know where else to ask this sorry.

    Are you allowed to vote without having a poling card? there is 7 people living here who are eligible to vote but our poling cards (I assume that's what they are called) never came in the post, our neighbours didn't get any either. I know from previous elections our names are on a list at the local poling station, if I bring ID can I still vote without the card?

    you don't need your polling card as long as your registered


Advertisement