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Lisbon vote October 2nd - How do you intend to vote?

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Comments

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    #3572
    BoozyBabe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭BoozyBabe


    I have not voted. I'm disgusted that there even IS another vote!!! :(
    Regardless of what the outcome was last time, the country spoke!!!

    The Fcuking cheek of Brian Cown today to encourage people to go out & vote. Telling people it was important to do so, & that it was important to have your say.

    The majority of the country wasn't listened to last time!
    They did speak, but where they listened to? No.
    So what's different this time?
    If we vote no again, are they gonna say ok?
    No. They'll say, 'oh silly Ireland, you got it wrong again' 'Here, have another go'
    Democracy my bloody ar$e!!!


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    #3573
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    free-man wrote: »
    I guess its too late for proper unbiased legal opinion on this. With all due respect.

    Fair enough. I don't see how it could be any plainer.

    If you're wondering Competences of the EU are the policy areas where it has power (or not) there are 4 categories of competence:

    1. No Competence - The EU has no power to legislate or aid the member states.
    2. Supporting Competence - The EU can assist the member states in coordinating policy
    3. Shared Competence - The EU can legislate, but the member states are free to go further in national legislation, once it doesn't interfere with EU legislation.
    4. Exclusive Competence - The EU has exclusive right of legislation, the member states may not legislate in this area.

    Policy areas are things like the common market, health, tourism, energy, customs, immigration etc.

    No way of construing any of that to mean the title, role or responsibilities of the president of the Council, the only way they could be changed is through a full treaty between the member states, not through Article 48.

    The problem you'll have in finding a legal opinion on it is the same one you'd have in finding a legal opinion on 'Would Article 48 allow the EU to change what I had for dinner yesterday?'. The simple answer is it doesn't do it, and why would anyone give an opinion on something that's not at all open to interpretation.


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    #3574
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    johnwillnot wrote: »
    He has been touted for the job even when he was still Prime Minister of Great Britain and months before most Irish people knew anything about the Lisbon treaty. Here is an article that appeared in the Financial Times on the 03/05/07 - http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4b7e16a2-f9a6-11db-9b6b-000b5df10621.html?nclick_check=1

    How do you explain that?

    The FT are pimping him, but they don't actually get to make the decision?


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    #3575
    Nulty
    Registered Users Posts: 7,838 ✭✭✭Nulty


    I voted NO in the above poll but changed my vote to YES this evening


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    #3576
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    BoozyBabe wrote: »
    The majority of the country wasn't listened to last time!
    They did speak, but where they listened to? No.

    They actually were. The Lisbon Treaty wasnt ratified, if you remember. But is my time posting this wasted?


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    #3577
    Rb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭Rb


    BoozyBabe wrote: »
    I have not voted. I'm disgusted that there even IS another vote!!! :(
    Regardless of what the outcome was last time, the country spoke!!!

    The Fcuking cheek of Brian Cown today to encourage people to go out & vote. Telling people it was important to do so, & that it was important to have your say.

    The majority of the country wasn't listened to last time!
    They did speak, but where they listened to? No.
    So what's different this time?
    If we vote no again, are they gonna say ok?
    No. They'll say, 'oh silly Ireland, you got it wrong again' 'Here, have another go'
    Democracy my bloody ar$e!!!
    Oh no, the Taoiseach encouraged people to go out and vote, following a 40% turnout last time. How dare he. Lets take to the streets etc etc etc

    Since this is your first post here, I would suggest searching for terms relating to the "re-run", you'll see there are very valid reasons for them doing so and that contrary to your brash statement, it is democracy at its finest. You just happen to not like it.


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    #3578
    SV
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,534 ✭✭✭SV


    turgon wrote: »
    They actually were. The Lisbon Treaty wasnt ratified, if you remember. But is my time posting this wasted?

    So what, the idea is that you must reject all treatys for life so they can't be ratified?


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    #3579
    pm.
    Registered Users Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭pm.


    Nulty wrote: »
    I voted NO in the above poll but changed my vote to YES this evening

    so did i


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    #3580
    moondogspot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 113 ✭✭moondogspot


    pm. wrote: »
    so did i

    I didn't.;)


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    #3581
    free-man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 350 ✭✭free-man


    turgon wrote: »
    They actually were. The Lisbon Treaty wasnt ratified, if you remember. But is my time posting this wasted?

    Yes its wasted as your spinning.

    It wasn't ratified but the vote wasn't respected as we were asked to vote again. Simple really.


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    #3582
    Orizio
    Registered Users Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭Orizio


    Just voted 'No' after voting 'Yes' the first time. A matter of principle, i.e. we stop living in a truly liberal nation when we are asked to vote repeatedly until we get the right result. This second vote simply isn't valid to any true liberal.

    Regarding the 'Lisbon Treaty' itself, I have no problems with it, since its essentially just some E.U. adminstrative house-keeping and tweaking. Its actual effects on Ireland will be pretty minimum, if passed, and certainly it is nowhere near as controversial as people/politicians are making it out to be. Really, the past few months 'debate' on the Lisbon Treaty has been pathetic, no more then scare-mongering and irrelevent nonsense, and proves just how despicable Irish politicans are.


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    #3583
    BoozyBabe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭BoozyBabe


    Rb wrote: »
    Oh no, the Taoiseach encouraged people to go out and vote, following a 40% turnout last time. How dare he. Lets take to the streets etc etc etc

    Since this is your first post here, I would suggest searching for terms relating to the "re-run", you'll see there are very valid reasons for them doing so and that contrary to your brash statement, it is democracy at its finest. You just happen to not like it.

    The country voted.
    The vote was for whether or not to ratify the treaty.
    We said NO.
    In a democracy, that'd have been the end of it.
    It's not, they said: you've gotten it wrong. Try again
    & if we get it 'wrong' again, they'll make us do it again & again until silly old Ireland gets it right.
    That's democracy, How?


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    #3584
    aaaaargh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭aaaaargh


    i went to vote today and found it odd that there was no garda presence at the voting station and then when i went to vote i was given a pencil wtf? the goverment are not taking any chances are they?:mad:


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    #3585
    SV
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,534 ✭✭✭SV


    aaaaargh wrote: »
    i went to vote today and found it odd that there was no garda presence at the voting station and then when i went to vote i was given a pencil wtf? the goverment are not taking any chances are they?:mad:

    Why would there be a garda presence and why would you want a pen?


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    #3586
    Slideshowbob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,460 ✭✭✭Slideshowbob


    just heard a funny one on tv3 news headlines:

    ''turnout is expected to increase ..........'' what else could happen in the last hour or 2 of polling?? ;-) good old tv3


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    #3587
    Rb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭Rb


    BoozyBabe wrote: »
    The country voted.
    The vote was for whether or not to ratify the treaty.
    We said NO.
    In a democracy, that'd have been the end of it.
    It's not, they said: you've gotten it wrong. Try again
    & if we get it 'wrong' again, they'll make us do it again & again until silly old Ireland gets it right.
    That's democracy, How?
    How about because they addressed our "concerns" in the form of binding guarantees and are now giving us a chance to vote on it again, albeit with our "concerns" now out of the way?

    They didn't say "You got it wrong", they said "What, in the text, do the Irish people have an issue with?". So there were surveys carried out and we gave a few reasons, none that had real footing in the text, and they were brought to the table and the most effecient solution was found.

    Since then, I've went from being a No voter to being very much in favour of the treaty, so I for one am glad of our opportunity to vote again on it and I know many others are too.

    Just out of interest, did you vote No last time around and if so, why did you vote that way? (With quotation from the Treaty for relevancy)


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    #3588
    coldwood92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭coldwood92


    Can't vote

    Under !8 !


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    #3589
    aaaaargh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭aaaaargh


    SV wrote: »
    Why would there be a garda presence and why would you want a pen?
    are you kidding me ? there is allways a gara presence at polling stations to ensure there is no rigging are you retarded man comon it wouldint be the first time they rigged a vote a remember allot of dead people voting (it got me kicked of register)


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    #3590
    BoozyBabe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭BoozyBabe


    Being completely honest: I didn't vote last time, as the information given to the lay person was pathetic, & I didn't understand any of it, so I didn't want to give a false vote to any one side, as I didn't know which was the right option to go for.

    So you see, I'm NOT against the treaty. I honestly don't know if it's good or bad for us.
    I'm just very annoyed that the country was asked to vote again.
    We were told at the time we wouldn't be.

    I don't really mind what the outcome is tomorrow, just in proncipal, I'm not happy that we were bullied into voting again on something we already voted on.

    I know that'll prob add fuel to your fire, but I'm just being honest.


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    #3591
    SV
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,534 ✭✭✭SV


    aaaaargh wrote: »
    are you kidding me ? there is allways a gara presence at polling stations to ensure there is no rigging are you retarded man comon it wouldint be the first time they rigged a vote a remember allot of dead people voting (it got me kicked of register)

    I've voted loads of times and not once have I seen a garda presence.
    Don't call me retarded.


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    #3592
    BoozyBabe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭BoozyBabe


    aaaaargh wrote: »
    are you kidding me ? there is allways a gara presence at polling stations to ensure there is no rigging are you retarded man

    :confused:
    There has NEVER been a garda presence at my polling station.


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    #3593
    Orizio
    Registered Users Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭Orizio


    SV wrote: »
    I've voted loads of times and not once have I seen a garda presence.
    Don't call me retarded.

    Same here, but I have a feeling it comes down to the quality of your area.


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    #3594
    Rb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭Rb


    BoozyBabe wrote: »
    Being completely honest: I didn't vote last time, as the information given to the lay person was pathetic, & I didn't understand any of it, so I didn't want to give a false vote to any one side, as I didn't know which was the right option to go for.

    So you see, I'm NOT against the treaty. I honestly don't know if it's good or bad for us.
    I'm just very annoyed that the country was asked to vote again.
    We were told at the time we wouldn't be.

    I don't really mind what the outcome is tomorrow, just in proncipal, I'm not happy that we were bullied into voting again on something we already voted on.

    I know that'll prob add fuel to your fire, but I'm just being honest.
    Don't worry, we're not being bullied. It's all above board, despite what some people may want you to believe.

    Fair play on abstaining though, you could always go and spoil the vote if you feel the whole thing hasn't been handled properly though.


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    #3595
    aaaaargh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭aaaaargh


    well maybe it just my bad neighbourhood but there allways there today they were not eitherway should be a pen!


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    #3596
    yozzie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12 ✭yozzie


    Nulty wrote: »
    I voted NO in the above poll but changed my vote to YES this evening
    pm. wrote: »
    so did i

    Out of genuine interest, do you mind sharing why?
    Was there a single issue that caused the change in views, or a myriad of reasons?


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    #3597
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    aaaaargh wrote: »
    well maybe it just my bad neighbourhood but there allways there today they were not eitherway should be a pen!

    If they had the time and opportunity to erase perfectly your pencil mark, and add their own, do you not think it would be easier to just make up a load of false ballots and swap them?


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    #3598
    MikeC101
    Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭MikeC101


    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »
    If they had the time and opportunity to erase perfectly your pencil mark, and add their own, do you not think it would be easier to just make up a load of false ballots and swap them?

    In a boardroom dimly lit by flickering torches on the walls, in the land of Euelitistan, the secret serpent rulers of the NWO click onto boards.ie, and look at each other, tongues flickering in anger at their oversight. And at the time, the wholesale price of UltraErasers that nice man from Rivada offered them seemed so good.

    PopeBuckfastXVI, they might hire you as a consultant!

    In all seriousness, it really is stretching for a conspiracy if the use of pencils has to come in to it.


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    #3599
    tattoodublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 52 ✭✭tattoodublin


    :eek: perhaps the secret serpent rulers have figured this all out, and have arranged a lack of garda's and pencils to mark with as a deliberate breadcrumb trail to lead us all down the wrong path! When suspicions arise about the ballots being "tampered with" and are checked for erasures.... there won't be any! because the sly and slithering secret serpent rulers ALSO switched the ballots!


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    #3600
    fligedlyflick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 178 ✭✭fligedlyflick


    was brian cowen extracting the urine when he said the irish people have voted with a "clear and resounding voice",
    did we vote with a hidden and muffled whimper last time?


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    #3601
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    BoozyBabe wrote: »
    Being completely honest: I didn't vote last time, as the information given to the lay person was pathetic, & I didn't understand any of it, so I didn't want to give a false vote to any one side, as I didn't know which was the right option to go for.

    So you see, I'm NOT against the treaty. I honestly don't know if it's good or bad for us.
    I'm just very annoyed that the country was asked to vote again.
    We were told at the time we wouldn't be.

    I don't really mind what the outcome is tomorrow, just in proncipal, I'm not happy that we were bullied into voting again on something we already voted on.

    I know that'll prob add fuel to your fire, but I'm just being honest.

    I don't understand. You of all people should be thankful for a second chance to give your opinion and there were many more like you. Unfortunately many people in your position voted no last time because it was the "safe" option. A year later and they understand the issues better so why not see if they've changed their minds?


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