Couch surfers refused entry to Ireland

RedmondM

Paparazzo wrote: »

If you're travelling you get the right documents you need to cross borders. Looks like these guys didn't bother doing any research on what they needed. I feel sorry for them, but they learned a lesson.

Since reading about these unfortunate lads, I've been trying to find a website which specifies what you need on arrival in Ireland.

Any suggestions for the approriate Irish immigration site?

ArseBurger

I'd probably start with the Irish Naturalisation & Immigration Service http://www.inis.gov.ie/

But, that's just me. And Google.

The_Conductor

Belfast wrote: »

what harm were 3 texans going to do here.

Texas chainsaw masacre?

Seriously though- I don't see what the issue is.
Ireland has common immigration rules with most other EU countries (despite not being part of Schengen). We have agreed common rules. If you state that you are entering EU territory for above a stated period of time (I think its 3 months) you have to be able to show you are in a position to support yourself, and also where you propose to live. You can also be asked to have a sponsor vouch for you. This is no different to an Irish person in the US or Australia.

I don't understand the incredulity being displayed on the part of some people- and the suggestions that they are entitled to compensation. Why? They bolloxed up. They should have done their research- they didn't- end of story.

I managed to get myself deported as a student for bolloxing up- I fell asleap at an inoportune moment on a train. (in retrospect I was bloody lucky- it was from Serbia)......

mickoneill30

RedmondM wrote: »

Since reading about these unfortunate lads, I've been trying to find a website which specifies what you need on arrival in Ireland.

What website do you need? I presume (correct me if I'm wrong here, as an Irish citizen I've obviously never needed this for Ireland) that you get a form to fill in when arriving into the country that asks questions like are you a terrorist, what's the purpose of your visit, where are you staying. It's pretty standard for every non EU country I've been to. What they probably did was leave the address field blank and when the immigration guy questioned them on it they said they don't know where they're staying. They were naieve and just because it's a terrible trip for them doesn't mean Ireland should bend simple rules.

A lot of posters here are seem to be implying "Sure you look grand bejaysus come on in for the craic, sure it's only foreigners with funny accents that have ever caused trouble". I'm pretty sure that no matter what country in Europe they landed in they'd get the same issues.

smccarrick wrote: »

I don't understand the incredulity being displayed on the part of some people- and the suggestions that they are entitled to compensation.

It's kind of embarassing. Imagine if immigration let people in who didn't satisfy their requirements properly and then those guys went to the UK or wherever. These same people would probably be up in arms saying what kind of backward country lets people in just because they look OK. I'm sure these 3 guys were fine but our immigration is lax enough. Arriving in a country and not bothering to fill in the forms correctly is a stupid mistake.

For anybody here on their high horses. The next time you go outside Europe, try leaving your destination off the form for the craic and say you don't know the address of where you're staying. If you're so confident that Irish immigration was wrong you've got nothing to worry about. When they kick you out you can go on RTE and ask for compo

Valmont

Good to see them get a taste of their own immigration procedures. haha.

nitrogen

Arathorn wrote: »

no proof of funds - they all had credit cards and offered to log in to their online bank accounts to show they had about 10,000 dollars, plus they had to pay about €1500 for the flights home, obviously this is proof of funds

I have to agree with this.

Yes, the guys were quite naive and didn't do their homework, especially leaving the address field blank - make up one, or have printed off a fake Ryanair itinerary.

Without doubt send anyone packing if they can't show proof of funds, but my main problem is they had proof. In a world of online banking with paperless statements, online check-ins and ticketless airlines, this saga makes Irish Immigration look like to be behind the times and lack common sense.

It was an unnecessary situation which could have been avoided with a little co-operation. It would have taken less than a quarter of an hour to examine online accounts and verify credit cards. Not to mention they purchased high cost flights to leave the country.

Saint_Mel

Another wrote: “These are nice, respectful, well-behaved young men and they would leave a great impression of Americans (Texans) on any country. Ireland owes them a great big apology and should make up for this terrible mistake.”

Everythings bigger in Texas!

The_Conductor

nitrogen wrote: »

this saga makes Irish Immigration look like to be behind the times and lack common sense.

It doesn't you know. Its standard operating procedure worldwide. If you imagine the Ozzies, the Canadians or US Border control are any different- you're sadly mistaken. No-one can expect to randomly roam another jurisdiction without complying with their sometimes onerous rules. Why do you imagine the number of foreign students in the US has fallen by almost 95% since 9-11, its because the rules imposed on them are so onerous as to make it nigh impossible to study there.

People seem to have this 'Ireland owes the rest of the world' mentality. Why? We most certainly don't. I'm older than you are- but I have been turned down for jobs in Germany and France- purely because I was Irish. Those days are not in the distant past- they are relatively recent.

Our recent success has been driven almost entirely by a low corporation tax regime- and even that is being trampled on by legislation elsewhere- notably in the US. We are desperately trying to reinvent ourselves as a financial services hub- akin to Singapore and other locations- and I really hope we succeed- because our country is up the creek otherwise.

People really seem to have very rose coloured images of how the Irish have traditionally been treated elsewhere- and imagine we have some sort of collective debt towards society at large.

We don't.

therecklessone

Arathorn wrote: »

It's common sense that 3 American citizens are here for a holiday, to put money into our economy.

Starting with paying €0 to kip on a couch in someone's house.

Duckjob

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

WPDX Newscast. Their version.

http://www.wpix.com/videobeta/watch/?watch=85e295ba-29e1-4def-884b-b4c185419e20&src=front

If they lose the "we're American, how dare you" attitude, show a bit of respect for the immigration rules of the country they're visiting, and get the right documents, then I'm sure they'll be welcome back to get the "cead míle failte" they were expecting.

Got to love the banner on that report-
Colin Zwirko - BANNED FROM IRELAND

WindSock

Just been listening to Newstalk, D4 hotels are paying for them to come back over and are putting them up for a week, giving them mobiles to use and tours of the city. Looks like it worked out for them better than before. Fairplay to them, the last thing this country needs is bad PR for the tourism industry.

mickoneill30

Duckjob wrote: »

If they lose the "we're American, how dare you" attitude, show a bit of respect for the immigration rules of the country they're visiting, and get the right documents, then I'm sure they'll be welcome back to get the "cead míle failte" they were expecting.

Got to love the banner on that report-
Colin Zwirko - BANNED FROM IRELAND

Was the ad before it for them 1-800 Victim2. Is it just me or does that guy definitely not look like a guy you'd want any legal advice from.
On the video they show one of the guys had a book about Europe. What's that about? Is that an immigration requirement?

irelandrover

I have no sympathy for these. On a recent trip to the states I was held for 20 minutes at immigration. The reason was that they didn't believe me for the reason I was there. I was there for business and had documents to prove it. I had a letter from the company I was going to, a ticket back home 6 days later, and the booking for the hotel which clearly showed how long I was there. I also had all the properly filled out forms. Why should I be put through that with all the correct documents and these 3 guys just be allowed to blatantly ignore our rules and let through?

The_Conductor

WindSock wrote: »

Just been listening to Newstalk, D4 hotels are paying for them to come back over and are putting them up for a week, giving them mobiles to use and tours of the city. Looks like it worked out for them better than before. Fairplay to them, the last thing this country needs is bad PR for the tourism industry.

I really don't understand why.
US tourists aren't coming here- because they don't like the Euro-$ exchange rate. Nothing more, nothing less. The antics of a few idiot couch surfers aside- does anyone really think a gesture like D4 Hotels are proposing will achieve anything, at all? Its more likely the kids will abuse their mobile phones and get tossed out of the hotel for partying- than anything else.

If they thought they were badly done by, by Irish emigration officials- wait until they see the rest of Europe...... I spent 4 hours at passport control in Lisbon last week- in the EU queue. A few Canadians I was chatting to spent 6. And this was leaving the country- not entering it.........

Saint_Mel

smccarrick wrote: »

The antics of a few idiot couch surfers aside- does anyone really think a gesture like D4 Hotels are proposing will achieve anything, at all?

more like PR stunt

The_Conductor

irelandrover wrote: »

Why should I be put through that with all the correct documents and these 3 guys just be allowed to blatantly ignore our rules and let through?

I think they believe the rest of the world owes them something. Quite what, I'm not so sure- but they believe they are somehow superior to other people- because they're from Texas? Couch surfers my ass.

I really hope they use their second chance as an educational experience and broaden their horizons a bit........

mickoneill30

smccarrick wrote: »

I really don't understand why.
US tourists aren't coming here- because they don't like the Euro-$ exchange rate. Nothing more, nothing less. The antics of a few idiot couch surfers aside- does anyone really think a gesture like D4 Hotels are proposing will achieve anything, at all?

Ah it's good PR and cheap advertising. Immigration were right to refuse them entry. The guys were stupid but not malicious. I know we shouldn't reward stupidity but we've all done stupid stuff and this'll make the Americans happy and D4 get some publicity.

Hopefully D4 hotels give them their address before they arrive the second time. Imagine if they were shipped out again.

Run_to_da_hills

WindSock wrote: »

Just been listening to Newstalk, D4 hotels are paying for them to come back over and are putting them up for a week, giving them mobiles to use and tours of the city. Looks like it worked out for them better than before. Fairplay to them, the last thing this country needs is bad PR for the tourism industry.

Anything for PR, you will have a lot more jump on the bandwagon.

mickoneill30 wrote: »

Hopefully D4 hotels give them their address before they arrive the second time. Imagine if they were shipped out again.

What if they went out of business before thay arrived.

The_Conductor

mickoneill30 wrote: »

Imagine if they were shipped out again.

They'd have a story to tell their kids for generations to come..... those Irish ingrates......

D4 hotels are lucky to have a nice remember-able website, perhaps it may stand to them. Having seen their recent occupancy figures- they do need the publicity......

WindSock

irelandrover wrote: »

I have no sympathy for these. On a recent trip to the states I was held for 20 minutes at immigration.

20 minutes? Hardly a scandal now is it?

smccarrick wrote: »

If they thought they were badly done by, by Irish emigration officials- wait until they see the rest of Europe...... I spent 4 hours at passport control in Lisbon last week- in the EU queue. A few Canadians I was chatting to spent 6. And this was leaving the country- not entering it.........

That sucks, and you probably would not like to go back to Lisbon airport in a hurry. I had a similar experience in Sharm El Sheik airport, but queuing at the airport is unfortunatley part & parcel with travel. At least you weren't fresh off a transatlantic flight and made go back on another one at your own expense.

ciagr297

simple as - no papers no entry

they were idiots, they did not do their homework on immigration requirements. i doubt US immigration would have accepted my offer of "logging" into my online bank and no address.....

tbh, anywhere else in europe they would have been shipped home without any of this fanfare

i know lots of US backpackers who are very careful about immigration requirements, and have never had a problem as a result

Run_to_da_hills

smccarrick wrote: »

I spent 4 hours at passport control in Lisbon last week- in the EU queue. A few Canadians I was chatting to spent 6. And this was leaving the country- not entering it.........

Another reason for not voting for them on October 2nd :rolleyes:

IvyTheTerrible

Another person here with no sympathy with these couch surfers. You'd never get away with that trying to get into the US, why should people be let walk all over our visa laws?

I always say that everyone should have to follow the law (whatever the law) the same. No exceptions, no sob stories. Problem with the law? Get the law changed.

The_Conductor

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

Problem with the law? Get the law changed.

Or go visit or live somewhere else.....

stovelid

WindSock wrote: »

Just been listening to Newstalk, D4 hotels are paying for them to come back over and are putting them up for a week, giving them mobiles to use and tours of the city. Looks like it worked out for them better than before. .

They'll probably sub-let the hotel rooms and crash on somebody's couch anyway.

the_syco

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

WPDX Newscast. Their version.

http://www.wpix.com/videobeta/watch/?watch=85e295ba-29e1-4def-884b-b4c185419e20&src=front

3 lads get refused entry to Ireland get onto TV? What the holy f**k? That makes them more suspicous looking!

WindSock wrote: »

Just been listening to Newstalk, D4 hotels are paying for them to come back over and are putting them up for a week, giving them mobiles to use and tours of the city. Looks like it worked out for them better than before. Fairplay to them, the last thing this country needs is bad PR for the tourism industry.

Coming to Ireland? Don't fill up the forms properly, and you'll get some hotel in Ireland fly you over, and give you a free week in their hotel!

Sizzler

Saint_Mel wrote: »

more like PR stunt

The guy from D4 hotels spent the last 30 seconds telling newstalk listeners what good value his hotel was for the month of July :rolleyes:

Run_to_da_hills

Sizzler wrote: »

The guy from D4 hotels spent the last 30 seconds telling newstalk listeners what good value his hotel was for the month of July :rolleyes:

Plus free publicity out of it in the states.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/070909dnmetirelandtravel.1fbd7c41.html

WindSock

Of course it's a PR stunt by D4. What else would it be?

Joey the lips

I am delighted if you got to deal with the fcukers in american immegration you would now what being hostile towards tourists is.

But then again america does not need foreign tourism and there attitude makes that clear

The_Conductor

Sizzler wrote: »

The guy from D4 hotels spent the last 30 seconds telling newstalk listeners what good value his hotel was for the month of July :rolleyes:

Bet he didn't let on how empty it is.....

The_Conductor

Joey the lips wrote: »

I am delighted if you got to deal with the fcukers in american immegration you would now what being hostile towards tourists is.

But then again america does not need foreign tourism and there attitude makes that clear

All the blanket advertising of California and Florida here would tend to disagree with this...... Arnie really is scraping the bottom of the barrel

Paparazzo

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Its very popular off Lahinch.
http://www.papermag.com/blogs/couch-surfing.jpg


Yes if their daddies are the MD'd of HP or Intel.

First of all, I doubt the son of the MD of HP or Intel is using the couch surfing website. And secondly, imagine the board agreeing to relocate the company cos the MD's son was refused entry for legitimate reasons! Get real!

Run_to_da_hills

Paparazzo wrote: »

First of all, I doubt the son of the MD of HP or Intel is using the couch surfing website. And secondly, imagine the board agreeing to relocate the company cos the MD's son was refused entry for legitimate reasons! Get real!

If their dads were US Military chiefs they could have nuked us. :eek:

Zoodlebop

I was their couchsurfing host!

I got a call from the Dublin immigration at 8:15 am asking me all about them and if I knew them and stuff. I said I did and I gave them my address. The woman on the phone seemed totally unreasonable. She said, "Well OK. If you hear from them later today, then we've let them through, but I wouldn't hold your breath". I was shocked at her rudeness (I was getting ready to head to work).

The fact that she was able to call me up, and talk to me and have me confirm that I was indeed expecting Colin and his friends and still deny them entry into Ireland is just ridiculous!

If any people want to know more about how couchsurfing works etc, then just gimme a PM or whatever.

WindSock

Zoodlebop wrote: »

The fact that she was able to call me up, and talk to me and have me confirm that I was indeed expecting Colin and his friends and still deny them entry into Ireland is just ridiculous!

Tell her you met them on a 419 site, just to make things even more juicier.

ciagr297

Paparazzo wrote: »

First of all, I doubt the son of the MD of HP or Intel is using the couch surfing website.

you'd be surprised the number of cheapskates couch surfing also gets...the idea of couch surfing is to enhance the travel experience, not freeload

ack there are cheapskates everywhere

Ginny

Meh, I don't get the outrage, anyone travelling from Ireland to the US gets couped up like cattle and the fingerprinted, god forbid you don't have an irish sounding name, and there's noway in hell an Irish person with no return flight would be allowed into the US.
They should have done their research, they didn't, tough ****e.

Darragh29

"They told immigration officials they had thousands of dollars in their bank accounts and he offered to show the officials his bank balance online, but they refused to look at it, he said."

You can almost imagine the conversation. "Sorry lads, the union won't let me use a computer in work, I'm not insured while using a computer at work and our union have health and safety concerns with regard to the use of computers at work"... :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

The_Conductor

Darragh29 wrote: »

"They told immigration officials they had thousands of dollars in their bank accounts and he offered to show the officials his bank balance online, but they refused to look at it, he said."

You can almost imagine the conversation. "Sorry lads, the union won't let me use a computer in work, I'm not insured while using a computer at work and our union have health and safety concerns with regard to the use of computers at work"... :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Just why would an immigration officer allow a random stranger to use their computer? If someone asked to use mine- I certainly would say no. Why is this any different? It would be a serious breach of security to allow them go on the internet on an official computer.

Darragh29

smccarrick wrote: »

Just why would an immigration officer allow a random stranger to use their computer? If someone asked to use mine- I certainly would say no. Why is this any different? It would be a serious breach of security to allow them go on the internet on an official computer.

First of all, it's 2009, we all do our business online now, you would expect that they'd have a stand alone computer with an internet connection available for resolving these type of issues! Now we have the Irish government probably paying for the return flights for 3 people to the US costing only Christ knows what, all because a simple little issue like an online bank balance couldn't be worked through because the reality of the situation is that they are not using modern technology, probably because they are demanding more money for agreeing to updated working practices or something stupid like that.

Dinter

They should have brought documentation, they didn't.

Storm in an eggcup.

The_Conductor

Darragh29 wrote: »

First of all, it's 2009, we all do our business online now, you would expect that they'd have a stand alone computer with an internet connection available for resolving these type of issues! Now we have the Irish government probably paying for the return flights for 3 people to the US costing only Christ knows what, all because a simple little issue like an online bank balance couldn't be worked through because the reality of the situation is that they are not using modern technology, probably because they are demanding more money for agreeing to updated working practices or something stupid like that.

If the Irish authorities provided a facility such as you are proposing- they would be unique- no other country has anything like this.

Not every bollox up is someone else's fault- they screwed up, plain and simple.

Darragh29

smccarrick wrote: »

If the Irish authorities provided a facility such as you are proposing- they would be unique- no other country has anything like this.

Not every bollox up is someone else's fault- they screwed up, plain and simple.

I was looking at a documentary this week showing how they operate in New Zealand and they are certainly more thoughre. What these lads got was a very arbitary decision from what sounds on the basis of the poster above who was apparently hosting these three guys, who spoke with the officer who was dealing with these three lads, was some absolute idiot who probably had a snot on her because of the public sector pension levy.

DamoDLK

Still and all lads we don't need any bad publicity from that side of the pond now do we!? the lads at immigration prob never even heard of couch surfing! let alone believe it to be plausible! another silly game of:pac: if ya ask me..

biko

“If they want us to go to their country, they shouldn’t do this,” said Colin Zwirko, 21, who sold his Volkswagen to help pay for the trip. “They should step up and apologize or help.”

F U P O F F

The_Conductor

Darragh29 wrote: »

the officer who was dealing with these three lads, was some absolute idiot who probably had a snot on her because of the public sector pension levy.

Having come through Dublin several times in the past few weeks- I genuinely think you are doing grave mis-service and being very unjust towards the immigration officers there.

Yes- I dare say they are annoyed about the public sector pensions levy- but any of my dealings with them have been polite and very reasonable.

These kids screwed up. Perhaps there is an element of discretion allowable by the individual officers- but when someone states they intend to stay possibly up to a year, and then try to get a random stranger on whose couch they intend to kip- to vouch for them- surely you can see where they were coming from. It is not the duty of the immigration officer to chase documentation on behalf of random strangers turning up at the Non-EU windows with rucksacks on their backs. It simply isn't. Suggesting it is- and then suggesting the public sector pension levy is a possible reason they didn't do this- is disingenuous to say the least.

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

Spiritoftheseventies

markok84 wrote: »

3 American backpackers were refused entry to Ireland last friday by an immigration official and sent back to Texas. I know they were only students and probably wouldn't have spent that much here, but in the midst of a recession don't we need all the revenue we can get. It's a bit Irish -considering they had €1300 to pay for flights home- to think that they wouldn't have enough money to stay two weeks.

Below is quoted from the Irish Times.

we turn a blind eye to rendition and yet wont let three americans backpackers in. unreal!

Quint

Plenty of Irish people have travelled to australia. I'm pretty they don't turn up at the airport with all the the stuff they need to gain entry. And if you didn't have your bank statement or whatever you need and got turned back, you'd be called an idiot and laughed at by your mates!
The 3 people in this story aren't doing the "dumb americans" stereotype any favours.