Mr binman strikes

97i9y3941

Mr. Binman strike enters seventh week
By Gillian O’Neill

OVER forty workers at waste collection company Mr. Binman are entering their seventh week of strike action and have vowed to remain on the picket line until management sits down with their union representatives.

The company has refused to deal with SIPTU, the union contacted by workers after being informed they were facing pay cuts ranging from 10% to 49%. Workers also have complaints in relation to differences in pay, claiming that some workers earn €800 while others receive just €450 for doing the same job.

“There are also differences in relation to overtime. Some people get overtime after 40 hours, others have to work 50 hours before becoming entitled to it. There are also different hourly rates for over-time ranging from €9.50 to
€23,” explained Michael O’Neill, who has worked for Mr. Binman since it began operating in the South East seven years ago.

It is understood that the company is unwilling to enter talks with the union, arguing that an Employees Representative Committee operates at the company to deal with any issues that workers may have. However, Mr. O’Neill said they were never offered this option.
Click Here!

“That’s what they told the union but it’s the first we ever heard of it,” he stated. The picketing workers say they are willing to resume service with no pre-conditions, as long as management comes to the table. They are currently in receipt of strike pay while Mr. Binman has brought in strike breakers from other counties to continue their waste collections.

“This is costing us, it’s costing them and we know from the customers that the service is suffering as well. There are no winners in this so we are urging management to just sit down and talk to the union and see what can be worked out. If they just come to the talks we will be back at work straight away, that’s where we want to be,” Mr. O’Neill said.

At the time of going to press, Mr. Binman could not be reached for comment.

http://www.waterford-news.com/news/story/?trs=mhauididau&cat=news

how come rte is not covering this story,its a scandal that people are getting away with this gov are letting us race to the bottom again

donkey balls

how come rte is not covering this story,its a scandal that people are getting away with this gov are letting us race to the bottom again




its just been on the last word matt coopers show the likes of these companies have been getting away with it for years i know i used to work for one and only found out after our company was taking over that a foreign lad was paid less than an irish lad.

i wonder will they pass on the 50% reduction in wage to the customers(dont think so) this is happening at an alarming rate especially in the transport industry.

one large uk logistics company with operations here imposed a 10% pay cut on there drivers while posting £25 million pre tax profits employers are taking the mick using the recession an excuse i know people have taking pay cuts but 50%.

deadhead13

Fred83 wrote: »

how come rte is not covering this story,its a scandal that people are getting away with this gov are letting us race to the bottom again

A Mr Binman representative and a union rep where slugging it out on Drivetime yesterday.

97i9y3941

its a disgrace,the gov should shame these people,they are trying to keep people off the dole but allow people like this to get away with it...

johnnyskeleton

Fred83 wrote: »

its a disgrace,the gov should shame these people,they are trying to keep people off the dole but allow people like this to get away with it...

By people like this do you mean the strikers or the owners/management of the company. Because it seems to me that a lot of small firms will go out of business unless they cut costs, so all politics aside, the strike might lead to more people on the dole queues than if the workers accepted the paycuts.

andrewdeerpark

Yeah Mr Binman is a tough cookie took on and won battles with Limerick Corporation and a hostile takeover over the past couple of years.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/mr-binman-claims-five-exemployees-helping-hostile-takeover-1271790.html

The site in question is the old clearpoint recycling depot in Carrick On Suir , Co. Tipperary, check out story below:

http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2007/07/08/story24956.asp

Paid 18million for it at the time however the bottom has fallen out of the recycling market with what was once going to China for good money no more. We in the 1st world are not buying cheap China goods at the same level.

Unknown to most a lot of recycled material is incinerated or sent to landfill because of lack of demand, in particular low grade paper and the likes.

This is basically a line where those plastic recycling bags are sorted. Sort of a dump with a production line real dirty dusty work.

I do feel for these workers they work hard long hours, most are foreign nationals, they deserve their measly 10euro an hour or whatever.

These people should get our support unlike the electricians as this is basically bullying of the meek and weakest of our workforce, but right up Sheahan street.

I do believe those individuals breaking this picket are real scabs that are doing more harm for minimum wage workers rights than the electricians dispute. Shame on them...

gurramok

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

By people like this do you mean the strikers or the owners/management of the company. Because it seems to me that a lot of small firms will go out of business unless they cut costs, so all politics aside, the strike might lead to more people on the dole queues than if the workers accepted the paycuts.

Not 50% Johnny, you know well that is not on for any worker, we ain't need to be competing with Albanian wages to be competitive again.

10% yes, there is a certain limit before workers go to get exploited.

donkey balls

Not 50% Johnny, you know well that is not on for any worker, we ain't need to be competing with Albanian wages to be competitive again.

10% yes, there is a certain limit before workers go to get exploited.

agree 100% these employers should be named and shamed i recently went for a job as an artic driver with a well known uk company seting up here they offered me 9.50e an hour and 13e for a bank holiday.

this company also has a reputation of under cutting other companies now i know how by paying drivers 9.50e i just hope that all the drivers that went for the job turned it down.

johnnyskeleton

gurramok wrote: »

Not 50% Johnny, you know well that is not on for any worker, we ain't need to be competing with Albanian wages to be competitive again.

10% yes, there is a certain limit before workers go to get exploited.

The article says 49% and while I'm not making any comment as to the appropriateness or otherwise of the specific example, my point is that a lot of companies have to cut costs or go out of business and the fact that they are unwilling to negotiate could well mean that they are more inclined towards going out of business than they are to negotiate cuts.

As for 50% not being on for any worker I disagree. Many in the construction sector have taken 50% cuts or worse, many estate agents, solicitors, bank managers etc have had to take such cuts and while the above are not in the same type of industry as waste disposal, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that, when faced with the spectre of unemployment on the other hand, workers will take a 50% paycut.

At a guess, it sounds like this company has a mess of employment contracts, possibly due to a merger or some other special arrangement and they are now trying to impose uniform wages on their staff. I guess they might have people earning €25k and €40k for doing the same job and this explains why the cuts range from 49%-10%. And while it might sound harsh, in a capitalist system an employer is entitled to shop around for the cheapest possible workers who can do the job, and if that means that a binman can no longer command €40k because someone else can do the job for less, then that's how it goes. He can compete with the other worker, or lose his job. On a larger scale, the same thing happens to countries, whereby Irish workers refused to take paycuts and dell, luftansa etc move to Eastern Europe.

johnnyskeleton

donkey balls wrote: »

agree 100% these employers should be named and shamed i recently went for a job as an artic driver with a well known uk company seting up here they offered me 9.50e an hour and 13e for a bank holiday.

this company also has a reputation of under cutting other companies now i know how by paying drivers 9.50e i just hope that all the drivers that went for the job turned it down.

If you turned it down because you could get a better paying job elsewhere that's great. But if you think that a diverse group of individual applicants (many of whom have families to feed) will all turn down the job on point of principle because they deserve to be paid more (or because the company is undercutting the market) then you are mistaken.

In good times, employers compete for workers and wages rise to attract workers to each job. In bad times, workers compete for jobs and wages reduce to make additional jobs more attractive to the employer.

donkey balls

In good times, employers compete for workers and wages rise to attract workers to each job. In bad times, workers compete for jobs and wages reduce to make additional jobs more attractive to the employer.

well actually this employer during the good years paid the same wages my piont is that there is employers out there taking advantage of the conditions were in at present.

a company i worked for has imposed a 10% wage cut to there drivers while making a £25 million profit.

a company that i do work for has told me that our hourly rate has been dropped by 1 euro an hour i have no problem with that its when these companies start asking you to work for just above the min wage.

its a known fact once a company/goverment takes something away from you its very hard to get it back. also do you think that these companies would introduce the old rates of pay once the economy is back up and running and there making good profits?

rugbyman

donkey balls wrote: »

Not 50% Johnny, you know well that is not on for any worker, we ain't need to be competing with Albanian wages to be competitive again.

10% yes, there is a certain limit before workers go to get exploited.

agree 100% these employers should be named and shamed i recently went for a job as an artic driver with a well known uk company seting up here they offered me 9.50e an hour and 13e for a bank holiday.

this company also has a reputation of under cutting other companies now i know how by paying drivers 9.50e i just hope that all the drivers that went for the job turned it down.

Hello Donkeys balls

may I ask, nothing personal, were you in employment when you went for that interview
if so, what was/ is your hourly rate ?

if not, did you get a better rate than the one you walked away from,since that?

I have driven trucks for years, the average job does not pay much more ,if any. Nine out of ten haulage companies are on their knees.

regards Rugbyman

johnnyskeleton

donkey balls wrote: »

well actually this employer during the good years paid the same wages my piont is that there is employers out there taking advantage of the conditions were in at present.

Should they not take advantage of the conditions we are in at present anymore than I should take advantage of the decline in the housing market to accept a cheaper rent or the drops in sterling to buy goods and services in Northern Ireland and the UK cheaper than here?

donkey balls wrote: »

a company i worked for has imposed a 10% wage cut to there drivers while making a £25 million profit.

Well if anything is unfair it is the capitalist system which allows them to do that, and not the particular actions of that company. It could be worse - in the 1980s big American car manufacturers moved production jobs out of Detroit and into cheaper countries, thus increasing their profits while getting rid of the Detroit jobs completely. While it is sad for those workers, the big American car manufacturers are not obliged to keep the jobs in Detroit out of humanitarian considerations.

donkey balls wrote: »

a company that i do work for has told me that our hourly rate has been dropped by 1 euro an hour i have no problem with that its when these companies start asking you to work for just above the min wage.

Again, if you can get a better offer you can refuse to work for that company, and if they can get a better offer (as in someone who will work at those rates) then why shouldn't they?

donkey balls wrote: »

its a known fact once a company/goverment takes something away from you its very hard to get it back. also do you think that these companies would introduce the old rates of pay once the economy is back up and running and there making good profits?

A much deeper question than can be dealt with simply in the Irish Economy forum. However, the crux of the matter is that the system we live makes sure that people probably won't starve and probably won't die from a curable disease, but other than that they have to look after themselves. During the good times this meant that the short supply of skilled workers in certain areas meant that their wages increased, probably beyond what they should have been. Now the abundance of supply of labour means that firms can employ people for less. If the economy goes back to the heady days of the celtic tiger (unlikely, IMO, for a long time) then the labour shortages can push wages back up. That's how the free market works, and if any of these workers doesn't like it because the company they work for makes large profits, they can always just set up on their own.

donkey balls

may I ask, nothing personal, were you in employment when you went for that interview
if so, what was/ is your hourly rate ?

the average hourly rate is about 17 euro depending on who you work for

cabinteelytom

The Irish Times Friday July 10 article is interesting; Mr Sheahan explains his management techniques www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0710/1224250387532.html.
This successful businessman is currently pushing through a cost-cutting drive (is there a recession in rubbish collection?), has alienated his work-force, 10% of whom are on strike, and has confirmed that he had 'hired non-nationals to keep manners on the Paddies'.
I, personally, feel extremely offended by his choice of language, and by the blanket statement that we 'Paddies' need mannners. [ But at least this man does not propose that we try to learn any from Mr Sheahan- or grammar either.]
I don't think I could give any business or contracts to someone who referred to me in such an offensive manner. Am I alone?

If you tolerate this...

P. Breathnach

cabinteelytom wrote: »

The Irish Times Friday July 10 article is interesting; Mr Sheahan explains his management techniques ...

... which seem not to differ greatly from those of Ryanair.

donkey balls

don't think I could give any business or contracts to someone who referred to me in such an offensive manner. Am I alone?

100% behind you as for the cnut i hope the rsa come to visit him to chech up on his tacho graphs etc

djpbarry

gurramok wrote: »

Not 50% Johnny, you know well that is not on for any worker, we ain't need to be competing with Albanian wages to be competitive again.

Surely it depends on what 100% amounts to? I seem to recall a quote from one of the striking employees, claiming that they were currently earning €650 per week. That’s just under €34k per annum.

To collect refuse.

Absolute madness.

donkey balls wrote: »

its a known fact once a company/goverment takes something away from you its very hard to get it back.

A known fact? So how did wages in this country ever get so high?

cabinteelytom wrote: »

is there a recession in rubbish collection?

I would have thought it was common knowledge that there has been a downturn in demand for recycled materials.

cabinteelytom wrote: »

…has alienated his work-force, 10% of whom are on strike…

I think this is an important point – the overwhelming majority of the employees are not striking.

donkey balls

Surely it depends on what 100% amounts to? I seem to recall a quote from one of the striking employees, claiming that they were currently earning €650 per week. That’s just under €34k per annum.

so how much do you think they should get paid the min wage?

as for 10% of the work force being alienated the other 90% is more than likely foreign nationals working who are probely on the min wage.

jimmycrackcorm

donkey balls wrote: »

Surely it depends on what 100% amounts to? I seem to recall a quote from one of the striking employees, claiming that they were currently earning €650 per week. That’s just under €34k per annum.

so how much do you think they should get paid the min wage?

Is it worth more than the minimum wage? Just because employees feel they should get more does not necessarily mean that they are justified. It's basically down to the market.

Dob74

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Is it worth more than the minimum wage? Just because employees feel they should get more does not necessarily mean that they are justified. It's basically down to the market.

If you get a government contract you should have to pay the correct terms and conditions.
What would you do the job for?
Would you get your hands dirty? Its amazing to see so many people begrudge a bin men an average wage.

djpbarry

donkey balls wrote: »

so how much do you think they should get paid the min wage?

That depends on what the specific role is. If we’re talking about purely collecting and/or sorting rubbish, then I would be inclined to think that a rate of pay significantly less than twice the minimum wage is in order. But, as has been said, it’s down to the market.

donkey balls wrote: »

...the other 90% is more than likely foreign nationals working who are probely on the min wage.

Got anything to back that up?

Nermal

donkey balls wrote: »

so how much do you think they should get paid the min wage?

The minimum necessary to ensure they won't quit.

moot

Dob74 wrote: »

Its amazing to see so many people begrudge a bin men an average wage.

If someone get paid more than the average wage then, somebody has to get paid less than the average wage (that's how the sums work!). Wanting everbody to get paid the average is just ridiculous.

Unfortunately for them, I'm pretty sure bin work is below average work (don't get me wrong, not less noble or less important anything like that, just likely to be paid less than average). The market should decide the rate of pay.

meathstevie

djpbarry wrote: »

Surely it depends on what 100% amounts to? I seem to recall a quote from one of the striking employees, claiming that they were currently earning €650 per week. That’s just under €34k per annum.

To collect refuse.

Absolute madness.
A known fact? So how did wages in this country ever get so high?
I would have thought it was common knowledge that there has been a downturn in demand for recycled materials.
I think this is an important point – the overwhelming majority of the employees are not striking.

Don't underestimate the importance of a binman. From a public health point of view a binmen are probably more important than all the medical consultants put together. If organised waste collection in the Western world would stop tomorrow you would be looking at public health situations similar to the ones you might have encountered in the refugee camps in Goma during the war in Ruanda : typhoid, dyphteria, cholera etc would run riot in no time at all. If the market for recycled materials is a bit weak at the moment that's a bummer for the private waste collectors but waste collection is an essential service for the existance of society as we know it. There's a reason why government in some shape or form used to do it until we all got blinded by greed.

The same goes for sewage, water supply, power supply, infrastructure, emergency services and communications. Letting private operators run these services on a for profit footing in my opinion is dangerous and has great potential for serious trouble when things start to go wrong economically.

Anyway, a long winded way of saying that your binmen, first line medical staff, policemen,soldiers, nurses, GP's, firefighters, sewage plant workers, ESB crews etc need to be looked after and be paid a decent wage. Without them society as you know it would disintegrate in a matter of weeks unlike it would if you put all bank CEO's on the dole tomorrow.

SkepticOne

meathstevie wrote: »

The same goes for sewage, water supply, power supply, infrastructure, emergency services and communications. Letting private operators run these services on a for profit footing in my opinion is dangerous and has great potential for serious trouble when things start to go wrong economically.

But if you want to see rubbish piled up in developed countries on a large scale you have to go back to when the state was responsible for these services e.g. "winter of discontent", 1978, Britain under Old Labour. That was one of the things that helped Thatcher win the 79 election. Strikes are much more common in nationalised services and industries since the tax-payer has no choice but to pay up.

97i9y3941

double edge sword i think,the gov have a right to shop around for contracts and look for the cheapest service on the taxpayers expense*although saying that,that rarely happens*,then it looks bad of gov giving contracts to companies that can exploit/treat workers badly...

djpbarry

meathstevie wrote: »

Anyway, a long winded way of saying that your binmen, first line medical staff, policemen,soldiers, nurses, GP's, firefighters, sewage plant workers, ESB crews etc need to be looked after and be paid a decent wage.

But you’re not comparing like with like. Collecting and/or sorting rubbish is not a skilled position and, as such, there are a very large number of people who could fill such a position, which weakens the collective bargaining ability of the bin-men.

And what’s a “decent wage” anyway? Should bin-men be paid the same amount as GP’s?