This has to be the kiss of death for Alfa

EPM · 09-07-2009 4:23pm #1

What are they thinking

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/241224/

If its the usual Dodge rubbish their fooked

Cookie_Monster · 09-07-2009 4:32pm

EPM wrote: »

What are they thinking

If its the usual Dodge rubbish their fooked

+1

unkel · 09-07-2009 4:32pm

Surely this is a sick joke?

:mad:

A Dodge and an Alfa are going after the same customer? Alfas are muscle cars?

NewApproach · 09-07-2009 4:34pm

Cant believe this could be true. The brand are poles apart.

He said: “Dodge is the American muscle car, while Alfa Romeo is the European muscle car. How we dovetail these two brands is very important.”

“The level of competition between these two brands is tremendous because they are both going after the same customer.”

:eek:

:rolleyes:

stevenmu · 09-07-2009 4:36pm

Well they both have pretty bad reputations for reliability, I'm not sure that's a very good reason to merge them though :pac:

EPM · 09-07-2009 4:40pm

NewApproach wrote: »

Cant believe this could be true. The brand are poles apart.

:eek::rolleyes:

Gotta love those zany americans in fairness

bazz26 · 09-07-2009 4:50pm

Brings back memories of this:

The Alfa Romeo Arna, which was a Nissan Cherry with Alfa Romeo engines.

Stevie Dakota · 09-07-2009 4:57pm

Nonsense or rumour like this will only hurt what is already fragile brand. Cop on Alfa.

ShadowHearth · 09-07-2009 5:14pm

alfa -europeon muscle car. I loled mine pants off!!!

It will look rate strange to see a viper with Fiat badge...

By the way.. what are the viper engines like? 6l++... just what europeon market needs now!

samsemtex · 09-07-2009 5:38pm

ShadowHearth wrote: »

alfa -europeon muscle car. I loled mine pants off!!!

It will look rate strange to see a viper with Fiat badge...

By the way.. what are the viper engines like? 6l++... just what europeon market needs now!

the srt-10 viper is 8.0liter. Alfas as muscle cars is ridiculous. Id hardly call a Mito, 147 or 159 a muscle car. The only one which comes close is the 8C and that is nothing like a muscle car.

Saab Ed · 09-07-2009 6:30pm

bazz26 wrote: »

Brings back memories of this:

The Alfa Romeo Arna, which was a Nissan Cherry with Alfa Romeo engines.

Leave it out..........I used to own one of thoses

:eek: It was so bad it was nearly good............almost. :P

Anyway all the Alfisti should be happy cause there are a lot of RWD platforms to share now. Dodge 75 anyone

Dodges badged as Alfas sounds terrible but dont be too quick to write off the whole idea. Modern Alfas using GM grubby bits might not be the best handling or fastest Alfas ever but they are some of the most reliable and the technology they got access to was endless.

pcardin · 09-07-2009 6:43pm

Well...it is early to say if it's good or not. Time will show. And for those Kia and Corsa driver here above who tends to be the real "Alfa experts" I can say only one - you're still living on the 80ties and seems that you forget that Alfa is not the same Fiat. Don't forget that the cars from your orgasmic dreams Ferrari and Maserati also belongs to FIAT group. And how can you judge of the Alfa if you never owned one?

alias no.9 · 09-07-2009 6:48pm

Saab Ed wrote: »

Anyway all the Alfisti should be happy cause there are a lot of RWD platforms to share now. Dodge 75 anyone Dodges badged as Alfas sounds terrible but dont be too quick to write off the whole idea. Modern Alfas using GM grubby bits might not be the best handling or fastest Alfas ever but they are some of the most reliable and the technology they got access to was endless.

In addition to the 159/Brera and their GM bits, it's worth remembering that the 155, 145, 146, gtv & spyder, 156, 147 and GT all trace their origins back to the humble Fiat Tipo. It demonstrates the ability of Alfa engineers to deliver fun and intersting cars from some fairly ordinary bits. I do hope that no current Dodge model ever wears an Alfa badge but I'd have every faith in the ability of Alfa engineers to develop some of the Dodge RWD platforms into something worthy of an Alfa badge. The FWD models should stick with current Fiat/Alfa/GM platforms for now.

Saab Ed · 09-07-2009 7:02pm

pcardin wrote: »

Well...it is early to say if it's good or not. Time will show. And for those Kia and Corsa driver here above who tends to be the real "Alfa experts" I can say only one - you're still living on the 80ties and seems that you forget that Alfa is not the same Fiat. Don't forget that the cars from your orgasmic dreams Ferrari and Maserati also belongs to FIAT group. And how can you judge of the Alfa if you never owned one?

Man you get offended very easy

Look all Im saying is atleast this way a brand like Alfa ( which in reality doesnt really have a right to be still around only it belongs to such a monster machine such as Fiat ) now might actualy prosper unlike Lancia which has been rolling out useless muck for years now. Like in fairness what would you prefer , Large RWD Alfas based on American cars or another Musa. Lots of Italian brands died not because the world is a bad place but because they were junk. Its a sorry fact that a country like Italy which has given us some of the most fantastic cars ever also lays claim to the worlds worst cars too. Like a Lancia Kappa or Fiat Idea or the ( dare I say it

) Alfa Arna. Its a sorry way to save a famous marque but lets face it, if it works it works

pcardin · 09-07-2009 7:56pm

Saab Ed wrote: »

Its a sorry fact that a country like Italy which has given us some of the most fantastic cars ever also lays claim to the worlds worst cars too. Like a Lancia Kappa ...

OMG! You definitely don't know what are you saying!

Did you ever had a Lancia Kappa? Have you ever seen one actualy? I doubt! I have Lancia Kappa for almost six years now. Driving on the daily basis and the only times when my Kappa went to the garage was when the parts like old exhaust, brake discs and pads, tyres, oil and filters and timing belt needed to be changed. The biggest bill I had was for replacing the clutch (which I killed myself). There is no rust on the body whatsoever and car is in excellent condition. If you want to see the worst cars in the Europe take a look on a wide range of Saab.

Big Nasty · 09-07-2009 8:00pm

alias no.9 wrote: »

In addition to the 159/Brera and their GM bits, it's worth remembering that the 155, 145, 146, gtv & spyder, 156, 147 and GT all trace their origins back to the humble Fiat Tipo. It demonstrates the ability of Alfa engineers to deliver fun and intersting cars from some fairly ordinary bits. I do hope that no current Dodge model ever wears an Alfa badge but I'd have every faith in the ability of Alfa engineers to develop some of the Dodge RWD platforms into something worthy of an Alfa badge. The FWD models should stick with current Fiat/Alfa/GM platforms for now.

It's Chrysler that Fiat bought into no GM!!!

Chrysler>Dodge>Jeep etc. Not GM!

unkel · 09-07-2009 9:25pm

MCMLXXV wrote: »

It's Chrysler that Fiat bought into no GM!!!

But GM nearly bought FIAT. The 159 is built on the same GM premium platform as the likes of the Opel Insignia (that's what Alias is referring to). And there are Opel engines in current Alfas :eek:

Saab Ed · 09-07-2009 9:32pm

pcardin wrote: »

Have you ever seen one actualy?

Has anybody ever seen a Kappa.

:P A car made for Italian Ambassadors.

Look I talk in the real world pointing out the bl00dy obvious. The reason I've never seen a Kappa is because Lancias were so crap they became un-exportable. Nobody bought them and it didnt end at Kappas. All Lancias through the 80's and 90's were crap. Even the Intergrale ( which Im told was some car , never drove one myself) were softer than a pillow. Like get real here. The question is not what you like, I dont care what you like. So you bought one, good for you. Are modern day lancias crap and un-sellable: Answer - Yes. Sales figures dont lie. Jezz in a world where the French outsell everthing from Italy it just about says it all. Would I like to see Alfa do well again, you're dam sure I would. If you want to talk cars talk cars but lets not make it personel.

mondeo · 09-07-2009 9:59pm

Alfa Romeo europes muscle cars...maybe if your Mickey Mouse...:rolleyes:

Years back I had an Alfa 156 1.8 twin spark, a spirited car but crappy designed wiring looms. More crosstalk then a switch board! Ugh never again..

Donnelly117 · 09-07-2009 10:39pm

yeah, dodges are pure crap

alias no.9 · 09-07-2009 10:42pm

MCMLXXV wrote: »

It's Chrysler that Fiat bought into no GM!!!

Chrysler>Dodge>Jeep etc. Not GM!

No **** sherlock. Did you miss the first half of this decade where Fiat/Alfa were in bed with GM? The result was shared platforms and engines. The Corsa/Punto/Mito share a platform, the Vectra/Croma/Saab 9-3 share a platform, the Alfa159/Brera/Spider are built on a platform that was developed in conjunction with GM. The 1.3 and 1.9 diesels in Opel/Saab came from Fiat/Alfa. The 1.9 and 2.2 and 3.2 JTS engines in the 159/Brera/Spider are GM blocks with Alfa heads. The shared platforms currently underpin the first generation of models to be built on them. It would be reasonable to expect that they will underpin a second generation model given Fiat/Alfas history of product development.

KerranJast · 09-07-2009 10:46pm

Donnelly117 wrote: »

yeah, dodges are pure crap

Blashphemy! The Dodge Charger is one of the best and most iconic cars ever made.

I don't see why they can't just sell Dodge vehicles under the Dodge brand in Europe.

Donnelly117 · 09-07-2009 11:08pm

KerranJast wrote: »

Blashphemy! The Dodge Charger is one of the best and most iconic cars ever made.

I don't see why they can't just sell Dodge vehicles under the Dodge brand in Europe.

cause nobody would buy one, and the charger you're refering to is 40 years old ffs. the new one is a woeful looking car

VolvoMan · 09-07-2009 11:28pm

unkel wrote: »

The 159 is built on the same GM premium platform as the likes of the Opel Insignia (that's what Alias is referring to).

That's the Epsilon platform you're thinking of. The 159 is based on a different platform called the Premium platform that was jointly developed with SAAB under GM. It was intended that the new 9-5 would use it but after the separation of the two companies the plan was shelved.

Big Nasty · 09-07-2009 11:54pm

alias no.9 wrote: »

No **** sherlock. Did you miss the first half of this decade where Fiat/Alfa were in bed with GM?

Thanks for that dude! :rolleyes:

unkel · 09-07-2009 11:56pm

VolvoMan wrote: »

That's the Epsilon platform you're thinking of. The 159 is based on a different platform called the Premium platform that was jointly developed with SAAB under GM. It was intended that the new 9-5 would use it but after the separation of the two companies the plan was shelved.

You might want to re-read my post about the GM premium platform

colm_mcm · 10-07-2009 12:31am

Alfa Romeos werre always a little bit dodge anyway

VolvoMan · 10-07-2009 12:59am

unkel wrote: »

You might want to re-read my post about the GM premium platform

My apologies but it was the Opel Insignia that made me think you were referring to the Epsilon platform which that car is based on, not the Premium platform which only the 159 uses.

robtri · 10-07-2009 8:13am

Am I the only one who thinks this is potetntially a good thing

Sure Alfa is the most reliable brand..... and neither is dodge.....
but Dodge have a great dealer network in the US, the biggest car buyers in the world, Alfa do make some lovely to look at cars, and very very nice to drive, so why shouldn't they hook up with Dodge and get dodge to sell their cars????

At this moment in time in the motor industry, manufacturers have to take every opputunity to expand and potential increase sales.....

Blazer · 10-07-2009 8:33am

I'm looking forward to getting my Alfa Viper...who knows? They might release a 3L version or something like that

R.O.R · 10-07-2009 8:42am

Does anyone think we'll actually see any of these Dodge/Alfa hybrids in Ireland or the UK?

I'd say it's likely that if any Alfa is based on a Dodge platform, they aren't going to go to the trouble of moving the steering wheel to the correct side of the car. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Dodge do any RHD models and I can't see the possible sales being worth the costs of re-engineering the vehicles.

EPM · 10-07-2009 8:43am

robtri wrote: »

so why shouldn't they hook up with Dodge and get dodge to sell their cars????

I think it's selling them with different badges. You'll get an Alfa badge on some crummy american bucket and a dodge badge on the Alfa in the US.

Can't really be good for Alfa's image. Dodge on the other hand doesn't have one so they dont really give a sheet...

robtri · 10-07-2009 10:01am

EPM wrote: »

I think it's selling them with different badges. You'll get an Alfa badge on some crummy american bucket and a dodge badge on the Alfa in the US.

Can't really be good for Alfa's image. Dodge on the other hand doesn't have one so they dont really give a sheet...

very very true.... but if it gets more money coming in the door... well thats what matters most during this time of economics woes for the auto trade

robtri · 10-07-2009 10:02am

R.O.R wrote: »

I'd say it's likely that if any Alfa is based on a Dodge platform, they aren't going to go to the trouble of moving the steering wheel to the correct side of the car. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Dodge do any RHD models and I can't see the possible sales being worth the costs of re-engineering the vehicles.

Dodge Calibur, Nitro and Journey all RHD...

R.O.R · 10-07-2009 10:16am

robtri wrote: »

Dodge Calibur, Nitro and Journey all RHD...

Thanks - forgot about those. Probably a damn good reason too :cool:

robtri · 10-07-2009 10:31am

R.O.R wrote: »

Thanks - forgot about those. Probably a damn good reason too :cool:

not the best alright, but I do like the look of the Calibur...

unkel · 10-07-2009 10:36am

VolvoMan wrote: »

My apologies but it was the Opel Insignia that made me think you were referring to the Epsilon platform which that car is based on, not the Premium platform which only the 159 uses.

I was wrong, my apologies. The Opel Insignia is indeed based on the Epsilon 2 platform and not on the premium platform as I said. GM planned to use the premium platform for the Insignia but they must have changed their minds along the way. The Alfa Brera is also on the premium platform and was there before the 159

Saab Ed · 10-07-2009 10:43am

Just a question I never knew the answer to. For obvious reasons the like of Ford and Opel killed off their big RWD saloons and platforms because the economy of scale was just not there. One model in the line up simply did not provide a good enough financial reason to invest in these segment. But why is there no big Fiat group RWD platform. Surely the numbers must add up. A big Alfa or 2 , a big Lancia and a Maserati of sorts. I wonder why they never developed there own or is it just a case that even with all these brands the numbers would still be too poor.

pburns · 10-07-2009 10:55am

Saab Ed wrote: »

Just a question I never knew the answer to. For obvious reasons the like of Ford and Opel killed off their big RWD saloons and platforms because the economy of scale was just not there. One model in the line up simply did not provide a good enough financial reason to invest in these segment. But why is there no big Fiat group RWD platform. Surely the numbers must add up. A big Alfa or 2 , a big Lancia and a Maserati of sorts. I wonder why they never developed there own or is it just a case that even with all these brands the numbers would still be too poor.

+1 on that.

When I first saw the thread title I thought it was just platform sharing. This could be a good thing - Alfa-fettled RWD platforms with 'European' handling.

But just badge-engineering two completely different brands? Utter madness - they must be REALLY desperate... First of all an Alfa should be quintesentially Italian, second, most loyal Alfa customers are clued up on cars and won't accept the type of badge-enginnereing your typical SEAT buyer might be comfortable with. Thirdly...I really don't have time to go into all the reasons why this is a horrendous idea...

Saab Ed · 10-07-2009 11:13am

pburns wrote: »

+1 on that.

When I first saw the thread title I thought it was just platform sharing. This could be a good thing - Alfa-fettled RWD platforms with 'European' handling.

See the problem now is that Alfa engineers now dont have a clue about RWD. The last RWD Alfa ( excluding the 8C which was developed by a totally different end of Fiat ) was the 75 which stopped production in 1992. That car was launched in 85 or 86 and it was only a development of the Giulia before it. So you see the thoughts of just handing thoses wonderfull Alfa magicians a RWD platform of sorts and thinking they'll be able to work their magic to make it a fantastic car just is'nt going to happen anymore.The Germans have moved the game on a long long way. And you cant just catch up 20 years like that.