Racist Unionists in the North of Ireland

markopantelic

Well technically I would probably be your Jewish amigo since that would be my ancestry. Although of course I'm Irish.

K-9

PrivateEye wrote: »

Yep, they made massive gains. Saying that, I think it was merely as a result of liberal/left governments making up the majority of E.U governments at the time of the elections. There are 'socialists' (To use the term lightly, Gordon Browns party is a 'socialist party' in European terms:rolleyes:) in power all over Europe, so thus the right was due to capitalise on the ill-feeling towards politicians after the heavy-collapse stage of the European economy, merely on the back of being a protest vote.

Were the far-right in power all over Europe (and lets hope they never are!) its not unlikely Joe Higgins would have a few friends flying to Brussels. Basically, I think it was moreso a good election NOT to be a government figurehead, than a good election to be right-wing.

What massive gains?

Govt. parties did reasonably ok, barring here and the UK.

conchubhar1

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=europe+goes+to+the+right+wing&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

eh..

PrivateEye

What massive gains?

The right did make gains, no doubt about it.

Look at Law and Justice, the second largest party in the new right-wing block lead by the Tories.

Jaroslaw Kaczynski, the Law and Justice leader, underlined his mainstream credentials when he appeared in Warsaw with Cameron on 29 May. The former Polish prime minister, whose brother Lech is the Polish president, said: "European institutions should be effective, economical, and aid co-operation between member states. They should never interfere with individual rights or the free market.

But the following day, at a rally in the city of Bialystock, Kaczynski appeared to revert to type. The Economist quoted him as saying: "If Europe is to be strong, it has to be Christian. And today it is anti-Christian, and especially anti-Catholic."

When you add to this the fact the BNP has taken two seats, and look at groups like the Tradition and Sovereignty Group in Bulgaria taken seats, you have to see the recent European elections were good for the far-right.

I refuse to think this is because they offer something (they don't, clearly) but rather the fact people merely made a protest-vote against the (by and large) liberal governments of Europe.

K-9

PrivateEye wrote: »

The right did make gains, no doubt about it.

Look at Law and Justice, the second largest party in the new right-wing block lead by the Tories.



When you add to this the fact the BNP has taken two seats, and look at groups like the Tradition and Sovereignty Group in Bulgaria taken seats, you have to see the recent European elections were good for the far-right.

The Tories just shifted party.

The problem far right and Nationnalistic groups have is ironically enough, in-fighting and splits. They never stick together! LOL

herya

PrivateEye wrote: »

But the following day, at a rally in the city of Bialystock, Kaczynski appeared to revert to type. The Economist quoted him as saying: "If Europe is to be strong, it has to be Christian. And today it is anti-Christian, and especially anti-Catholic."

He's generally laughed at in Poland - together with his brother they are the butt of jokes. His party lost votes in EU election and other smaller right-wing parties were completely obliterated. The winning party the Civic Platform (who gained a lot) is a liberal-conservative free market party. Poland is not a good example here (yup I'm PL).

K-9

conchubhar1 wrote: »

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=europe+goes+to+the+right+wing&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

eh..

LOL at the search term.

magick

Northern Ireland is only for white British.

And the California for Irish, see i can do it too!

PaulieD

magick wrote: »

And the California for Irish, see i can do it too!

Why do people on here crave "a thanks". Irish are a mere 1% of California, while the Mexicans, often illegal, are the majority.

PaulieD

herya wrote: »

He's generally laughed at in Poland - together with his brother they are the butt of jokes. His party lost votes in EU election and other smaller right-wing parties were completely obliterated. The winning party the Civic Platform (who gained a lot) is a liberal-conservative free market party. Poland is not a good example here (yup I'm PL).

I would laugh at them to. Just out of interest, how may Polish reside in Ireland?

Is it 63,000 as the census suggests or over 200,000 as Conor Lenihan estimates?

herya

PaulieD wrote: »

I would laugh at them to. Just out of interest, how may Polish reside in Ireland?

Is it 63,000 as the census suggests or over 200,000 as Conor Lenihan estimates?

Sorry to disappoint but I've no clue. I can tell that many have already left or are leaving, I definitely wouldn't base any calculations on PPS numbers issued.

Red Crow

PaulieD wrote: »

Why do people on here crave "a thanks". Irish are a mere 1% of California, while the Mexicans, often illegal, are the majority.

Hmm... Obviously you have never been to California. You state that "fact" despite the fact that Cali has the largest White population in America. I'd say less than a third are Hispanic, nevermind Mexican. Congrats.

PaulieD

herya wrote: »

Sorry to disappoint but I've no clue. I can tell that many have already left or are leaving, I definitely wouldn't base any calculations on PPS numbers issued.

Many are still coming, as per the recent PPS numbers issued. As I always say, Ireland or Poland, which is better to sit out the global recession in?

PaulieD

Kurtza wrote: »

Hmm... Obviously you have never been to California. You state that "fact" despite the fact that Cali has the largest White population in America. I'd say less than a third are Hispanic, nevermind Mexican. Congrats.

Hispanics are considered "white" by the FBI and by the general census. Arnie himself claimed the mexicans are a majority, but what would he know, compared to a boards.ie poster?

Mass immigration is one of the reasons Cali is bankrupt. Its one of the reasons Ireland is too.

herya

PaulieD wrote: »

Many are still coming, as per the recent PPS numbers issued. As I always say, Ireland or Poland, which is better to sit out the global recession in?

I'd say depends where your safety net is. Family and friends are usually where you come from. It's not fun to find yourself in a new country with no job, huge competition and with savings that with Irish living costs only buy you two weeks worth of rent & food. I've no friends or family who have come in recently, I have many who left so I might be biased.

Dionysus

mike65 wrote: »

Well the north of Ireland is Donegal in my world

So I guess it's centuries of common usage and accuracy versus your world then.

PaulieD

herya wrote: »

I'd say depends where your safety net is. Family and friends are usually where you come from. It's not fun to find yourself in a new country with no job, huge competition and with savings that with Irish living costs only buy you two weeks worth of rent & food. I've no friends or family who have come in recently, I have many who left so I might be biased.

25% of those on the welfare bill disagree, as those are foreign to Ireland. 40,000 decided to emigrate to Ireland. Over 10,000 of whom, are Polish.

Leaving, indeed.

herya

PaulieD wrote: »

25% of those on the welfare bill disagree, as those are foreign to Ireland. 40,000 decided to emigrate to Ireland. Over 10,000 of whom, are Polish.

Leaving, indeed.

The ones on welfare must have worked here before to earn it so they are not the ones who come here, smell the roses and head straight back.

And I can see the others leaving, I help them write their CV for employers back in Poland, so let's agree to disagree.

PaulieD

herya wrote: »

The ones on welfare must have worked here before to earn it so they are not the ones who come here, smell the roses and head straight back.

And I can see the others leaving, I help them write their CV for employers back in Poland, so let's agree to disagree.

You are obviously more informed on the situation than myself. We will see if you are right, but let it be said, we where told this from day one(2005)

anonymous_joe

conchubhar1 wrote: »

oh the poor people! are they persecuted now?

Never said they were right - merely pointing out that Northern Ireland's Unionist working class has a siege mentality, in an economically depressed time, with a conservative and nationalist (and by nationalist I mean pro their nation, or perceived nation) which leads to far right politics fairly easily.

PaulieD wrote: »

25% of those on the welfare bill disagree, as those are foreign to Ireland. 40,000 decided to emigrate to Ireland. Over 10,000 of whom, are Polish.

Leaving, indeed.

Those bástards. Working here long enough to get the tax credits to claim welfare.

North_West_Art

mike65 wrote: »

Well the north of Ireland is Donegal in my world

Im not going to let this go.... please explain yourself? Its in the North in my world too (geographically)... what in under Jesus has it to do with whats been talked about in this thread?

PaulieD

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Never said they were right - merely pointing out that Northern Ireland's Unionist working class has a siege mentality, in an economically depressed time, with a conservative and nationalist (and by nationalist I mean pro their nation, or perceived nation) which leads to far right politics fairly easily.


Those bástards. Working here long enough to get the tax credits to claim welfare.

Glad you brought it up, Joe. Two years on minimum wage and you are entitled to 204 euro a week, child allowance(from day one), rent supplement and a medical card. Fair, I am sure you will agree.:rolleyes:

Where as in Poland, you are entitled to welfare after ten years!!!

anonymous_joe

PaulieD wrote: »

Glad you brought it up, Joe. Two years on minimum wage and you are entitled to 204 euro a week, child allowance(from day one), rent supplement and a medical card. Fair, I am sure you will agree.:rolleyes:

Where as in Poland, you are entitled to welfare after ten years!!!

And? What's your point? Should we let people who haven't been working for ten years starve?

Cool_CM

K-9 wrote: »

LOL at the search term.

For the sake of fairness and transparency:

http://www.google.ie/search?q=european%20elections%20left%20right&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&tab=nw

herya

PaulieD wrote: »

You are obviously more informed on the situation than myself. We will see if you are right, but let it be said, we where told this from day one(2005)

We'll see indeed. I'd be happy to see more statistics that actually make sense like close monitoring of active PPS numbers, how old they are etc.

Some real life situations for you: students come for the summer to visit their relatives living here & hoping for some sandwich bar job. If they don't get it (and they have no exp in Ireland plus often only basic language) they just have a holiday and are back for October but it's one more PPS no on the list.

Another common scenario - joining families. With the recession you can no longer support two households if the family is split so they need to decide if one of them goes back to Poland or the other one comes to Ireland. Might depend on whether their job here is safe enough, also for many people it was only a couple of years plan to work here so if this time is almost up they would rather go back when they have a good chance of getting a job there (and right now they have). I'd say in most cases it really boils down to whether they wanted to stay here for good from the start or whether it was only some temporary solution and they wanted back at some stage anyway.

PaulieD

anonymous_joe wrote: »

And? What's your point? Should we let people who haven't been working for ten years starve?

We cannot afford to pay them to live in Ireland. Ireland is bankrupt.

c4cat

markopantelic wrote: »

How can they be alienated? They are a majority.

Not on the this island

herya

PaulieD wrote: »

Where as in Poland, you are entitled to welfare after ten years!!!

I don't think it's true, where do you have it from?

You get your dole even if you've never worked at all, only it's a pittance and stops after a while. My graduate friends were on the dole for a moment, they've never worked. Various forms of social welfare are available even if you've never worked a day, health care is free as long as you're on the register. Admittedly the money is much much lower but so is the cost of living so it's not such a dramatic difference as it seems.

anonymous_joe

PaulieD wrote: »

We cannot afford to pay them to live in Ireland. Ireland is bankrupt.

And? I'd love to kick all the scobes who sponge off the welfare sysyem out of Ireland, but we can't do that.

Red Crow

PaulieD wrote: »

Hispanics are considered "white" by the FBI and by the general census. Arnie himself claimed the mexicans are a majority, but what would he know, compared to a boards.ie poster?

Mass immigration is one of the reasons Cali is bankrupt. Its one of the reasons Ireland is too.

California is nearly bankrupt because no revenue raising or spending cuts have been taken. Mismanagement of finances is the problem, not mass-immgration. Show me where these/your facts ly?

You are full of it.

herya

PaulieD wrote: »

Where as in Poland, you are entitled to welfare after ten years!!!

Checked it for you. It's definitely not true.

To get a regular Jobseeker's Benefit you need to work for 365 days over the previous 18 months. There are also other provisions for those who have not worked etc, roughly corresponding with JA rules here.

Social welfare, kids allowance etc do not require work history AFAIK but I'd have to read up on it. Health insurance is free for everybody who is working, on the register or otherwise recognised by the welfare office.

Micilin Muc

mike65 wrote: »

Well the north of Ireland is Donegal in my world

Get with it. Did you sleep in for first class geography?

Overheal

Kurtza wrote: »

California is nearly bankrupt because no revenue raising or spending cuts have been taken. Mismanagement of finances is the problem, not mass-immgration. Show me where these/your facts ly?

You are full of it.

Not to mention the $1.4m that Los Angeles just spent on a Michael Jackson memorial service.

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1615585/20090709/jackson_michael.jhtml

Shimona!

topper75

We need to counter the statement of these cheeky chaps up in the 'fast.

I propose the next Irish jockey to win at Aintree announce to all and sundry that "Northern Britain is for white Irish only!".

See if they like it up 'em.

stealthyspeeder

Racism in Belfast is not imbedded in Loyalsit/Unionist mentality, the facts of the situation are that housing in Republican/Natioinalist area's is more in demand (due to the on average higher birthrate of the Catholic Republican comunity over the last 50 years). Now given that few Unionists will move to Republican areas and vise versa, this leaves the majority of excess free housing in the Unionist areas, so this is where the foriegners move in.

In my opinion the racist outbursts are associated with loyalists/unionists as they are the side of the comunitywho will spend more time exposed to foriegners within their comunity.

I am not excusing their behaviour in any way, I think its the last thing Belfast (where im from (the unionist part)) needs. But I think it is a little niave to say this is a Unionist thing, loyalists are from a different planet, and republicans are angels who would behave in a completely different way!

The sad thing is, I think it is a Belfast (to a lesser extend Northern Ireland) thing. A minority of small closed minded (yet active and vocal) minority, tarnishing a majority. (just like the bad old days *sigh*)

mike65

North_West_Art wrote: »

Im not going to let this go.... please explain yourself? Its in the North in my world too (geographically)... what in under Jesus has it to do with whats been talked about in this thread?

Micilin Muc wrote: »

Get with it. Did you sleep in for first class geography?

north of Ireland, Donegal - geographic area.

Northern Ireland (note capitals) political entity.

two different places.

thelordofcheese

PaulieD wrote: »

Mass immigration is one of the reasons Cali is bankrupt. Its one of the reasons Ireland is too.

Horseshit.

Direct democracy and things like Prop 13 did more to shaft Cali than your "immigration" boogymen.

McArmalite

Appearently a crowd have formed the Ulster British People's Party " In Ulster today, there is a huge influx of Polish migrant workers.....The influx of migrants has also changed the political landscape and power of balance in area where Protestants are in the majority by only a few votes. This Roman Catholic migrant vote will at the very least go to the SDLP or worse, Sinn Fein/IRA ! Where once was a Protestant majority will quickly become a republican ghetto ! .....These is also the increase in crime from this migrant community throughout Ulster. Much of if kept quiet or unreported by the PSNI or the NIO least the 'true' reality of foreign criminality-rape, sexual assault, bank/credit card scams etc "

http://ubpp.webs.com/catholicpolishmigrants.htm

Appearently it's a breakaway of the BNP " One is the Ulster British People's party (UBPP), which is linked to a breakaway faction of the British National party. Following the campaign of vandalism and intimidation of the Roma families, the UBPP has bragged about further racially motivated violence ahead. "

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/21/race-northern-ireland-romanian-gypsies

They have been leafletting in Derry ( unionist areas ofcourse, not the Bogside, Creggan etc :D Carrickfergus etc )

Sam Vimes

PaulieD wrote: »

Mass immigration is one of the reasons Cali is bankrupt. Its one of the reasons Ireland is too.

Mass immigration is the only reason California has any people in it

HalloweenJack

amacachi wrote: »

Those lads do realise that they aren't British don't they?

While I'm a nationalist when it comes to the situation up North, unionists are descended from the English and Scottish people who settled there over the centuries.

Therefore, they have perfect reason to claim that they are "British" as their ancestors came from Britain.

North_West_Art

mike65 wrote: »

north of Ireland, Donegal - geographic area.

Northern Ireland (note capitals) political entity.

two different places.

Thank you, I understand what the difference is between the North of Ireland and the Republic... now, can you explain why you brought up Donegal in the first place? Looking forward to your response....:p

ardmacha

While I'm a nationalist when it comes to the situation up North, unionists are descended from the English and Scottish people who settled there over the centuries.

Since there is no evidence that humans first evolved in Ireland, more likely this took place in Africa. Consequently everyone is descended from someone who came from somewhere, those English in turn came from central Europe and so on. Unionism is intrinsically racist as it is based on who you are descended from, nationalism is based on the people of Ireland working together which is potentially inclusive of everyone, whatever about its failings in practice. ne of the most important Unionist parties recent (or still) had a motto "Simply British", which is a racist motto given that they are not in Britain, they are only identifying those who benefited from colonial ethnic cleansing.

General Zod

For those of you who haven't updated your After Hours glossaries, "debate free of agendas" actually means "debate where the end result can only be that "all the thieving sponging foreigners are kicked out".

I'm proposing a bounty on PaulieD's posts. Can someone find an AH post by PaulieD which isn't about immigrants or in an immigration thread?

Winner gets a Bounty.

Theta

PaulieD wrote: »

We cannot afford to pay them to live in Ireland. Ireland is bankrupt.

Just because the country is in a poor financial situation does not mean it provides the right to turf people who have earned the money provided to them by law.

Terry

General Zod wrote: »

For those of you who haven't updated your After Hours glossaries, "debate free of agendas" actually means "debate where the end result can only be that "all the thieving sponging foreigners are kicked out".

I'm proposing a bounty on PaulieD's posts. Can someone find an AH post by PaulieD which isn't about immigrants or in an immigration thread?

Winner gets a Bounty.

I'm afraid you will have to wait 2 weeks before his next post in AH.

Richard

markopantelic wrote: »

How can they be alienated? They are a majority.

This lot do not represent anywhere near a majority of Unionists, let alone a majority of Northern Ireland. They're idiots.

Richard

PaulieD wrote: »

Why do people on here crave "a thanks". Irish are a mere 1% of California, while the Mexicans, often illegal, are the majority.

I thought Mexicans WERE Irish!

b28

First of all, northern Ireland is nothing to really write home about!

Have a look at these attachments Czech Republic versus northern ireland.
Now the czech people have a case in defence, the north doesn't
Who wants to be british? its not really a pretty, cultural nationality in the first place.

b28

Fair enough, Britain is a super power bla bla bla...
But really, I dont like the culture, the people etc...I dont know why they aren't envious of other nations since they are nothing worth visiting.
I hate seeing ugly British men trying to score women in Prague....its an insult!!
British people should stay in britain if they think its so great, everywhere they go they complain about. They reason they travel is to buy property, cause trouble, get a woman because they have below average looking women who dress cheap and talk like their using a loudspeaker, and appear superior!
So many places are soo soo much better than Britain, so why are they so arrogant??

I dont dislike all british, some are sound surely

1huge1

markopantelic wrote: »

How can they be alienated? They are a majority.

I don't think its very fair to relate these guys to all prodestants now in all fairness.

These people are just the scum of the earth.