Team for the Autumn Internationals.

Hippo

obcork wrote: »

I have no problem with a replacement for O'Gara as long as its Keatley, ten times more potential than Sexton, but he was shifted over to no mans land! ROG also had a good 6N better than Sexton anyway, oh wait, he didnt play. Its all well and good when you are playing Churchill Cup and playing well but full international is a little different, he'd crumble mentally and physically, he looks like a tennis player. And look back at my post I said nothing about playing MOD but he is better than MOK because at least he attempts to play the game.

I don't know how you can say Keatley has 'ten times more potential than Sexton', or that Sexton would 'crumble mentally and physically at full international level'.
Remember the HEC semi? Sure, there's only one way to find out, and that's by giving him a chance at test level, but he's already proved himself mentally at HEC level after a very difficult start to the season.
And he can tackle.

obcork

danthefan wrote: »

Absolutely laughable. Anything but Leinster eh? We should drop Fitz for Dowling, maybe give Denis Hurley a game in the AIs while we're at it.



Think that's the guts of the team but Horan isn't a TH and you've left out Bowe, who is a nailed on starter.

I have mentioned 2 players from Leinster, how is that anything but Leinster? I have a lot of respect for people like Luke Fitzgerald, I just dont like average players being hyped up to be something they are not. The fact of the matter is that MOK was in the Ireland squad by default he had no competition, Casey was black listed and DOC didnt have the experience in his early years. Sexton is just not as good as everyone thinks. And by the way Hurley is a terrible player as well.

obcork

Size=everything wrote: »

10 times the player?? Oh so thats why even Niall O'Connor was picked ahead of him for the Churchill Cup. Yes Keatley, a player who couldn't compete with Sexton at Leinster and was sold on is 10 times the player. Sexton a player who outplayed two Lions outhalves and had exceptional games in the semi final and final of the Heineken Cup (Keatley has never even played in the HC) is a lesser player.......

Kidney, Cheika, the entire youth development management team at Leinster and every pundit in the country has gotten it wrong! KEATLEY IS 10 TIMES THE PLAYER THAT SEXTON IS obcork you've got to tell everyone!!

Ya Niall O'Conner showed is expectional kicking in the Churchill Cup and his dynamic running game. Look at the Leinster boyos growing a pair of balls too!

Stev_o

Size=everything wrote: »

10 times the player?? Oh so thats why even Niall O'Connor was picked ahead of him for the Churchill Cup. Yes Keatley, a player who couldn't compete with Sexton at Leinster and was sold on is 10 times the player. Sexton a player who outplayed two Lions outhalves and had exceptional games in the semi final and final of the Heineken Cup (Keatley has never even played in the HC) is a lesser player.......

Kidney, Cheika, the entire youth development management team at Leinster and every pundit in the country has gotten it wrong! KEATLEY IS 10 TIMES THE PLAYER THAT SEXTON IS obcork you've got to tell everyone!!

For a start calm down try to argue in mannerly way.

Secondly Keatley kept the 10 shirt from NOC in the Ireland Internationals. Common sense tells us that Ireland > Ireland A.

Size=everything

thehighground wrote: »

Leamy was coming back from a shoulder operation this year - he hardly played last season. However, he did get to play the last game of the Grand Slam winning team against Wales (which didn't have Rocky Elsom or Ferris in its backrow) to make him look good. And the Welsh back row is fairly competitive. Leamy did very well. As for Jennings, he certainly looked quite pedestrian in a couple of games I saw him play last season.

Come off it. Leamy has been poor for awhile now. Jennings has been doing the grunt work for years and has been criminally overlooked for far too long. Jennings was absolutely excellent last season. Pedestrian maybe to people who don't understand what a 7's role is and think that all backrows are mean't to go on barrraging runs :rolleyes: The amount of turnovers Jennings was responsible for was immense. His link up play is top notch. He played better than Wallace towards the end of the season and that says a lot. To say Leamy is better than Jennings is laughable to be honest.

Rubbish - MOD captained Munster to one of the best performances of any Irish team in the last 29 years last November in Thomond Park against the All Blacks. A few months previous he played every game in the HC that got Munster out of the pool of death (without Paul O'Connell) to go on and win the Heineken Cup. A very under rated player.

Malcom O'Kelly played a pivital role in leading Leinster to the Heineken Cup. He outplayed the Munster second row (the one MOD can't get into btw) in one of Leinster's most clinical performances. He played every game for Leinster he was fit for and was conistently (hard for MOD to be consistent when he only plays when Munster players need a rest) excellent. That is why MOK deserved his place ahead of MOD and to be honest you'd have to be extremely delusional to argue against that. If someone asked me who would I prefer in the Irish squad, a player who can't get his game at his province or a player starting regularly and playing well consistently for the Heineken Cup champions I know who I would choose and if you be honest you do too.

As for Mal - absolutely class player in his day - but I'd argue that Leo Cullen was the difference to Leinster in the HEC in the 2nd Row. As soon as Leo came back from injury, Leinster improved. That or Kidney booting him out of the Ireland team for his bad time keeping was the making of Mal this season.

Simply not true, Leinster improved for a number of reasons mainly their backline clicked. But hey lets not begrudge you trying to acclaim Kidney for MOKs performances...... Loving the logic.

Ireland clearly need another 10 desperately to take over from ROG. The jury is still out on whether its Sexton or not. Clearly even Leinster fans opinion on Sexton is divided.

The jury is not out. O'Gara had a dreadful 6 nations for Ireland and cost the Lions the series. O'Gara has had plenty of opportunities to work on his tackling but either can't or more worringly doesn't want to. He is a liability and I would prefer to see our backrow doing their job rather than having to keep an eye like a mother would on a child over O'Gara's channel. O'Gara's kicking out of the hand has gone wayward and in the 6 nations he consistently missed touch, his passing hasn't been anywhere near decent and has thrown intercept passes a few times last season. The only thing ROG has going for him is place kicking whereas Sexton is brilliant defensively, excellent passer of the ball, knows his outside centres well, is kicking out of hand brilliantly, amazing runner with ball in hand and can score drop kicks from near enough the half way line to boot! He is young and already has much more potential than O'Gara and quess what? He will be around for the next two world cups! Seems like a difficult choice for me :rolleyes:

You are like a broken record with regard to ROG - top points & try scorer in 2007 6Ns? Hardly under performing for years now? What does he have to do to 'perform'? Beat the Boks single-handley - opps, he did that a few years ago.

Great lets go on past performances! Dempsey to start full back, Horgan on the wing, MOK and MOD will be the locks, Dave Humphreys to outhalf! Brilliant logic yet again...

In all the Lions games ROG started, he was pretty good - we all saw how the Lions fell apart when he was replaced by James Hook against the Emerging Boks. He really didn't get much of a shot in the Tests.

He played well in one game...and absolutely dreadful in another costing the Lions the entire series. He also nearly single handidly cost Ireland the GS against England but he got a drop goal from 10 yards out, dead centre against Wales so hey, lets completely forget about his entire 6 nations and judge him solely on that.

As for Munster supporters wanting Munster players in the Irish team - one minute they are accused for not wanting to play for Ireland - next minute its wanting too much to play for Ireland - you can't win

Leave the provincial ****e out of it, its getting tiresome from you.

IMO, it puts a huge strain on Munster having to supply most the players. Think of it, the Munster front row (& most the pack), after a pretty tough, intense 6Ns, were straight into a fairly intense Heineken Cup competition, while Leinster's front row & pack were nicely rested.

Once again trying to stir provincial ****e. You supply 3 more players than Leinster so thats why you lost in the semi final, once again great logic.

England teams in the Heineken Cup continually complain that Magners teams have an advantage over Magners teams in the Heineken cup because of the intense nature of the English Premiership. The English Premiership doesn't compare with the 6Ns on intensity. So, if they can use that as an excuse for not winning the Heineken Cup every year, so can Munster.

lol. can anyone say excuses?

Size=everything

Stev_o wrote: »

For a start calm down try to argue in mannerly way.

Secondly Keatley kept the 10 shirt from NOC in the Ireland Internationals. Common sense tells us that Ireland > Ireland A.

I am calm it was just a bit of light hearted humour at what was a ridiculous thing to say based on absolutely zero evidence. How a player who was deemed not good enough to compete with Sexton at Leinster, a player who is currently third choice for the Ireland As and has never played HC rugby is better than Sexton, a player who many have tipped to start for Ireland by the 6nations and who has outplayed two Lions outhalves i'll never know.

obcork

Size=everything wrote: »

Come off it. Leamy has been poor for awhile now. Jennings has been doing the grunt work for years and has been criminally overlooked for far too long. Jennings was absolutely excellent last season. Pedestrian maybe to people who don't understand what a 7's role is and think that all backrows are mean't to go on barrraging runs :rolleyes: The amount of turnovers Jennings was responsible for was immense. His link up play is top notch. He played better than Wallace towards the end of the season and that says a lot. To say Leamy is better than Jennings is laughable to be honest.




Malcom O'Kelly played a pivital role in leading Leinster to the Heineken Cup. He outplayed the Munster second row (the one MOD can't get into btw) in one of Leinster's most clinical performances. He played every game for Leinster he was fit for and was conistently (hard for MOD to be consistent when he only plays when Munster players need a rest) excellent. That is why MOK deserved his place ahead of MOD and to be honest you'd have to be extremely delusional to argue against that. If someone asked me who would I prefer in the Irish squad, a player who can't get his game at his province or a player starting regularly and playing well consistently for the Heineken Cup champions I know who I would choose and if you be honest you do too.





Simply not true, Leinster improved for a number of reasons mainly their backline clicked. But hey lets not begrudge you trying to acclaim Kidney for MOKs performances...... Loving the logic.




The jury is not out. O'Gara had a dreadful 6 nations for Ireland and cost the Lions the series. O'Gara has had plenty of opportunities to work on his tackling but either can't or more worringly doesn't want to. He is a liability and I would prefer to see our backrow doing their job rather than having to keep an eye like a mother would on a child over O'Gara's channel. O'Gara's kicking out of the hand has gone wayward and in the 6 nations he consistently missed touch, his passing hasn't been anywhere near decent and has thrown intercept passes a few times last season. The only thing ROG has going for him is place kicking whereas Sexton is brilliant defensively, excellent passer of the ball, knows his outside centres well, is kicking out of hand brilliantly, amazing runner with ball in hand and can score drop kicks from near enough the half way line to boot! He is young and already has much more potential than O'Gara and quess what? He will be around for the next two world cups! Seems like a difficult choice for me :rolleyes:




Great lets go on past performances! Dempsey to start full back, Horgan on the wing, MOK and MOD will be the locks, Dave Humphreys to outhalf! Brilliant logic yet again...




He played well in one game...and absolutely dreadful in another costing the Lions the entire series. He also nearly single handidly cost Ireland the GS against England but he got a drop goal from 10 yards out, dead centre against Wales so hey, lets completely forget about his entire 6 nations and judge him solely on that.



Leave the provincial ****e out of it, its getting tiresome from you.



Once again trying to stir provincial ****e. You supply 3 more players than Leinster so thats why you lost in the semi final, once again great logic.




lol. can anyone say excuses?

I'll give you 4 words and you can arrange them in any way you like, it doesnt even have to make sense, they are just random words,:p, "shoulder", "chip", "your", and "on".

SpAcEd OuT

obcork wrote: »

Look at the Leinster boyos growing a pair of balls too!

Edit : Your not worth it.

Riskymove

Size=everything wrote: »

Sexton, a player who many have tipped to start for Ireland by the 6nations and who has outplayed two Lions outhalves i'll never know.

but its also true to say that if Dr Phil had not got injured sexton would probably not have played either game

while he played very well both days i believe most players should establish a good starting role at provincial level to progress...this may well be sexton's year and I expect him to be starting 10 by this time next year...but two games don't mean everything..

danthefan

Riskymove wrote: »

but its also true to say that if Dr Phil had not got injured sexton would probably not have played either game

while he played very well both days i believe most players should establish a good starting role at provincial level to progress...this may well be sexton's year and I expect him to be starting 10 by this time next year...but two games don't mean everything..

So what? Why do people keep making that point? Who cares about what probably would have happened? The fact of the matter is he guided Leinster to winning the Heineken Cup.

Stev_o

Size=everything wrote: »

I am calm it was just a bit of light hearted humour at what was a ridiculous thing to say based on absolutely zero evidence. How a player who was deemed not good enough to compete with Sexton at Leinster, a player who is currently third choice for the Ireland As and has never played HC rugby is better than Sexton, a player who many have tipped to start for Ireland by the 6nations and who has outplayed two Lions outhalves i'll never know.

Again Ireland International Squad > Ireland A. You keep thinking that Keatley was apart of the CC squad which he wasn't he was part of the Irish International Squad.

_blank_

Any more Leinster vs Munster claptrap is going to result in month long bans.

Is that Crystal clear?

Month bans.

premierstone

LOL Size=everything wants to pick the Ireland squad based on one HEC semi-fianl, would I be right in saying you were of the opinion that there should have been no Leinster players in the Irish team between 2006 and 2009 so???

And then he states that the team cant be picked on past performances What do you suggest its picked on , future performances?? Fcukin mystic meg here should be the manager imo that Kidney fellow sure is only a chancer who's gotten lucky :rolleyes:

danthefan

Stev_o wrote: »

Again Ireland International Squad > Ireland A. You keep thinking that Keatley was apart of the CC squad which he wasn't he was part of the Irish International Squad.

You are right but I think DK actually tried to pick 2 teams that were relatively even in strength, and the fact the full coaching team took care of both teams reinforces that imo. I'd be confident the CC team would have beaten the full side if they played against each other, they looked better as a unit.

Riskymove

danthefan wrote: »

So what? Why do people keep making that point?

answer=Denis Hurley

in case of Mod anger I should point out I am a Munster fan and this post is not a Munsterv leinster slag

Trojan

Lads, cop on or you will be banned.

Edit: Des got here first. Nice work!

danthefan

Riskymove wrote: »

answer=Denis Hurley

I don't get it.

Size=everything

premierstone wrote: »

LOL Size=everything wants to pick the Ireland squad based on one HEC semi-fianl, would I be right in saying you were of the opinion that there should have been no Leinster players in the Irish team between 2006 and 2009 so???

And then he states that the team cant be picked on past performances What do you suggest its picked on , future performances?? Fcukin mystic meg here should be the manager imo that Kidney fellow sure is only a chancer who's gotten lucky :rolleyes:

When I say past performaces I mean recent not 2 years ago like you pointed to :rolleyes: Also you should try debate rather than engaging in personal abuse.

And I don't want to pick anything based on a HC semi final other than Sexton everything is judged on the entire season. Sexton is selected because we desperately need cover at outhalf and judging by his play I believe he has the potential to be far better than ROG who is currently playing very poor. No more no less. Trust you to twist words though

Riskymove

danthefan wrote: »

I don't get it.

after two fantastic performances in the lead up to HC success two years ago there were plenty of calls for him to play for Ireland

I simply believe more experience is needed to get into ireland team

Size=everything

Stev_o wrote: »

Again Ireland International Squad > Ireland A. You keep thinking that Keatley was apart of the CC squad which he wasn't he was part of the Irish International Squad.

The point is DK was seeing if Keatley would be thereabouts in the Irish set up against Canada or if NOC would be ahead of him. As it transpired he wasn't and as such wasn't picked for CC.

danthefan

Riskymove wrote: »

after two fantastic performances in the lead up to HC success two years ago there were plenty of calls for him to play for Ireland

I simply believe more experience is needed to get into ireland team

Ah right. This is a different situation imo, in recent years we haven't been short for back 3 players at all while we have a chronic shortage of outhalves.

Edit - and as pointed out below he was responsible for most of Leinster's decent backplay this year. I bet as many tries were scored this season while he was at 10 than Nacewa and Contepomi combined. From what I saw there was a strong feeling among Leinster fans that he should start the semi-final. He did get his break due to injury but that's hardly unusual and shouldn't take anything away from his performances.

Size=everything

Riskymove wrote: »

after two fantastic performances in the lead up to HC success two years ago there were plenty of calls for him to play for Ireland

I simply believe more experience is needed to get into ireland team

Hold on a minute, Sexton other than one or two games which unfortunately happened at the very start of the season was excellent. I have argued that the backline clicked immensely whenever he played and argued time and time again that I wanted Sexton at 10 and Contepomi at 12. Sexton was also excellent in the very recent CC by the way.

Stev_o

Size=everything wrote: »

The point is DK was seeing if Keatley would be thereabouts in the Irish set up against Canada or if NOC would be ahead of him. As it transpired he wasn't and as such wasn't picked for CC.

Say what? He was never in the squad to begin with he was just in the International one, NOC was in both. I really don't understand what your trying to suggest here.

Size=everything

Stev_o wrote: »

Say what? He was never in the squad to begin with he was just in the International one, NOC was in both. I really don't understand what your trying to suggest here.

You are saying Keatley is ahead of NOC in the pecking order beacause he started for Ireland against Canada. I am saying if he was ahead of NOC like you suggest then he would of been in the CC squad as well.

Riskymove

Size=everything wrote: »

Hold on a minute, Sexton other than one or two games which unfortunately happened at the very start of the season was excellent. I have argued that the backline clicked immensely whenever he played and argued time and time again that I wanted Sexton at 10 and Contepomi at 12. Sexton was also excellent in the very recent CC by the way.

yes, I know but with contepomi gone, Sexton now has free run at a regular starting 10 and will hopefully have a great season

as I say i expect him to be starting 10 for ireland by this time next year

chupacabra

Size=everything wrote: »

The point is DK was seeing if Keatley would be thereabouts in the Irish set up against Canada or if NOC would be ahead of him. As it transpired he wasn't and as such wasn't picked for CC.

Huh? You are inside Declan Kidneys mind now?

Size=everything

chupacabra wrote: »

Huh? You are inside Declan Kidneys mind now?

Well its just common sense if a player gets picked ahead of another then in the manager's eyes he is better a player. If I said Kearney was rated by Kidney ahead of Hurley because Kearney is in the squad and Hurley isn't would you respond the same?

chupacabra

Size=everything wrote: »

Well its just common sense if a player gets picked ahead of another then in the manager's eyes he is better a player. If I said Kearney was rated by Kidney ahead of Hurley because Kearney is in the squad and Hurley isn't would you respond the same?

Are you really comparing the gulf between Kearney and Hurley to Keatley and Niall O'Connor? :rolleyes:

Size=everything

chupacabra wrote: »

Are you really comparing the gulf between Kearney and Hurley to Keatley and Niall O'Connor? :rolleyes:

Same logic applies. In my opinion if a player is selected ahead of another player then in the manager's eyes the player selected is a better player than the player who isn't. I don't have to be inside the manager's head as you put it to see that. its quite simple really....

Stev_o

Size=everything wrote: »

You are saying Keatley is ahead of NOC in the pecking order beacause he started for Ireland against Canada. I am saying if he was ahead of NOC like you suggest then he would of been in the CC squad as well.

But NOC didn't even play once he benched both games, he then played against Canada where everyone admitted he was the worse player on the pitch and was very ordinary against Georgia and he never played the crucial crunch game against the Saxons.. Are you seriously telling me that if you play for Ireland A it means that you are above the list for someone who is playing for the international squad? That doesn't make much sense.

Riskymove

Size=everything wrote: »

is a better player than the player who isn't....

not always...sometimes a player will just fit the system or style of play the Manager wants but not just "a better player"

e.g. see arguments over "defensive qualities" of wingers in Lions tour

Size=everything

Stev_o wrote: »

But NOC didn't even play once he benched both games, he then played against Canada where everyone admitted he was the worse player on the pitch and was very ordinary against Georgia and he never played the crucial crunch game against the Saxons.. Are you seriously telling me that if you play for Ireland A it means that you are above the list for someone who is playing for the international squad? That doesn't make much sense.

Stop being childish you know yourself that the squad for the Ireland game against Canada wasn't an international squad and was simply a developement squad. If Keatley was deemed good enough he would of been picked for the CC as well. Simple as.

Size=everything

Riskymove wrote: »

not always...sometimes a player will just fit the system or style of play the Manager wants but not just "a better player"

e.g. see arguments over "defensive qualities" of wingers in Lions tour

So its just a coincidence that Keatley was poor and subsequently dropped? Also why not bring a supposed superior player to a competition where you don't know who your opponents will be? How can it be a tatical decision not to bring a suppposed better player when you don't know who your opponents will be? Surely you pick your best players for a squad.

Perhaps it was a tatical decision not to pick Hurley for the 6nations squad and in Kidneys eyes he really is a superior player to Kearney!!

Stev_o

Size=everything wrote: »

Stop being childish you know yourself that the squad for the Ireland game against Canada wasn't an international squad and was simply a developement squad. If Keatley was deemed good enough he would of been picked for the CC as well. Simple as.

Connacht skipper John Muldoon an out-half Ian Keatley will win their first senior caps for Ireland against Canada on Saturday.
And there could be a hat-trick of debut caps for Connacht as hooker Sean Cronin is on the bench.
Four Connacht players will be involved for the clash with Canada in Vancouver with Gavin Duffy winning his ninth cap when he starts at full-back.

You'v complete lost me now if you don't think that the team that played the USA and Canada was not a International squad.

He was deemed good enough to play in full international not in a competition where caps are not awarded.

Goign by your logic if NOC was deemed good enough he would of been capped in those two international games but he wasn't.

Kealtey was never dropped, he was never in the CC squad to begin with how many times does this have to be pointed out?

chupacabra

Size=everything wrote: »

Same logic applies. In my opinion if a player is selected ahead of another player then in the manager's eyes the player selected is a better player than the player who isn't. I don't have to be inside the manager's head as you put it to see that. its quite simple really....

The fact of the matter is, Keatley was selected for the full squad and played 2 games for the full squad, while Niall O'Connor was only selected and played for our "B" Team.

Size=everything

Stev_o wrote: »

You'v complete lost me now if you don't think that the team that played the USA and Canada was not a International squad.

He was deemed good enough to play in full international not in a competition where caps are not awarded.

Goign by your logic if NOC was deemed good enough he would of been capped in those two international games but he wasn't.

Kealtey was never dropped, he was never in the CC squad to begin with how many times does this have to be pointed out?

Oh I forgot that the likes of Duffy, Murphy, Cave, Whitten, Stringer, Dowling, Court, Buckley, Casey, MOD, Muldoon, Ronan and Leamy are all regular starters for Ireland! How silly of me! You're right it was our international squad! :rolleyes:

NOC wasn't deemed good enough by Kidney at the time of the Canada but due to Keatley's performances was picked ahead of him for the CC after. he was never in the CC squad because he wasn't deemed ahead of NOC after his performances. Hence why Whitten, Court, Casey, Cave, Buckley, Ronan and NOC were selected and he wasn't.

Chucky the tree

Size=everything wrote: »

Stop being childish you know yourself that the squad for the Ireland game against Canada wasn't an international squad and was simply a developement squad. If Keatley was deemed good enough he would of been picked for the CC as well. Simple as.

So you think Mike Ross isn't deemed good enough either and that's why he wasn't in the CC squad?

Size=everything

chupacabra wrote: »

The fact of the matter is, Keatley was selected for the full squad and played 2 games for the full squad, while Niall O'Connor was only selected and played for our "B" Team.

And the fact is Keatley was subsequently dropped even from the ''B'' team after that game.

Size=everything

Chucky the tree wrote: »

So you think Mike Ross isn't deemed good enough either and that's why he wasn't in the CC squad?

in Kidney's eyes yes. Not my eyes though.

Stev_o

Size=everything wrote: »

And the fact is Keatley was subsequently dropped even from the ''B'' team after that game.

Christ how many times do i have to say it he was never in the squad when it was picked which was the same time the full international was selected.

ohn Andress (Exeter Chiefs)*

Neil Best (Northampton Saints)

Isaac Boss (Ballymena/Ulster)

Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster)

Fionn Carr (Galwegians/Connacht)*

Sean Cronin (Buccaneers/Connacht)*

James Downey (Northampton Saints)*

Denis Fogarty (Cork Constitution/Munster)*

Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)*

Chris Henry (Ballymena/Ulster)*

Trevor Hogan (Blackrock College/Leinster)

Denis Hurley (Cork Constitution/Munster)*

Felix Jones (Seapoint/Leinster)*

Simon Keogh (Old Belvedere/Leinster)*

Keith Matthews (Buccaneers/Connacht)*

Fergus McFadden (UCD/Leinster)*

John Muldoon (Galwegians/Connacht)* (capt)

Frank Murphy (Buccaneers/Connacht)*

Johne Murphy (Leicester Tigers)*

Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)*

Niall O'Connor (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)*

Ed O'Donoghue (Instonians/Ulster)*

Niall Ronan (Shannon/Munster)*

Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)

Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)*

Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)*

Bryan Young (Ballymena/Ulster)


How can you get dropped from something your not even part of? More importantly how does playing for Ireland and not getting selected for Ireland A constitute as being drop?

Size=everything

Stev_o wrote: »

Christ how many times do i have to say it he was never in the squad when it was picked which was the same time the full international was selected.

ohn Andress (Exeter Chiefs)*

Neil Best (Northampton Saints)

Isaac Boss (Ballymena/Ulster)

Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster)

Fionn Carr (Galwegians/Connacht)*

Sean Cronin (Buccaneers/Connacht)*

James Downey (Northampton Saints)*

Denis Fogarty (Cork Constitution/Munster)*

Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)*

Chris Henry (Ballymena/Ulster)*

Trevor Hogan (Blackrock College/Leinster)

Denis Hurley (Cork Constitution/Munster)*

Felix Jones (Seapoint/Leinster)*

Simon Keogh (Old Belvedere/Leinster)*

Keith Matthews (Buccaneers/Connacht)*

Fergus McFadden (UCD/Leinster)*

John Muldoon (Galwegians/Connacht)* (capt)

Frank Murphy (Buccaneers/Connacht)*

Johne Murphy (Leicester Tigers)*

Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)*

Niall O'Connor (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)*

Ed O'Donoghue (Instonians/Ulster)*

Niall Ronan (Shannon/Munster)*

Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)

Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)*

Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)*

Bryan Young (Ballymena/Ulster)


How can you get dropped from something your not even part of? More importantly how does playing for Ireland and not getting selected for Ireland A constitute as being drop?

Isn't that my point? He wasn't even selected hence my opinion that he is third thoice behind NOC and Sexton in Kidney's eyes. And can we please stop this he played for Ireland malarky it was a development side just like the Ireland As and one could argue it was less than the Ireland As without the Leinster players. In fact theres no doubt in my mind the Ireland As was the stronger side than the Ireland squad against Canada.

Stev_o

Size=everything wrote: »

Isn't that my point? He wasn't even selected hence my opinion that he is third thoice behind NOC and Sexton in Kidney's eyes. And can we please stop this he played for Ireland malarky it was a development side just like the Ireland As and one could argue it was less than the Ireland As without the Leinster players. In fact theres no doubt in my mind the Ireland As was the stronger side than the Ireland squad against Canada.

Which is the higher level international squad or A squad?

Chucky the tree

Size=everything wrote: »

in Kidney's eyes yes. Not my eyes though.

Do you not think that maybe players like Ross, Keatley etc were just given a rest for the CC after a long hard season? Buckley hasn't had much game time this season and neither has NOC so CC gives them a chance to play a bit more. I mean Rory Best wasn't picked for the CC squad and I hardly think it's because Kidney thinks Cronin is a better hooker. There's probably a lot of players Kidney wanted to see in action so that's why he picked there was changes from the Int. squad to the CC game. I'm sure he wanted to see NOC play so when he didn't get to play in the Int's he was picked for the CC team and not because he now deems NOC as a better OH then Keatley.

Size=everything

Stev_o wrote: »

Which is the higher level international squad or A squad?

Oh come off it, stop being so petty everyone can see that that wasn't a proper international squad.

Stev_o

Size=everything wrote: »

Oh come off it, stop being so petty everyone can see that that wasn't a proper international squad.

Caps were awards therefore it's a international squad, doesn't matter who's in it is still a international squad. So again Ireland International squad > Ireland A.

Size=everything

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Do you not think that maybe players like Ross, Keatley etc were just given a rest for the CC after a long hard season? Buckley hasn't had much game time this season and neither has NOC so CC gives them a chance to play a bit more. I mean Rory Best wasn't picked for the CC squad and I hardly think it's because Kidney thinks Cronin is a better hooker. There's probably a lot of players Kidney wanted to see in action so that's why he picked there was changes from the Int. squad to the CC game. I'm sure he wanted to see NOC play so when he didn't get to play in the Int's he was picked for the CC team and not because he now deems NOC as a better OH then Keatley.

The only player that could be argued for is Best. Tell me, which squad do you think is the stronger one?

Chucky the tree

Size=everything wrote: »

Isn't that my point? He wasn't even selected hence my opinion that he is third thoice behind NOC and Sexton in Kidney's eyes. And can we please stop this he played for Ireland malarky it was a development side just like the Ireland As and one could argue it was less than the Ireland As without the Leinster players. In fact theres no doubt in my mind the Ireland As was the stronger side than the Ireland squad against Canada.

So Boss is now ahead of stringer & reddan, Cronin ahead of best and Neil best/Chris henry ahead of Leamy for selection?

Size=everything

Stev_o wrote: »

Caps were awards therefore it's a international squad, doesn't matter who's in it is still a international squad. So again Ireland International squad > Ireland A.

Hence why those who played well were recalled for the A squad in the CC (other than Best who has already proven himself) and those who played POORLY i.e Keatley weren't.

Chucky the tree

Size=everything wrote: »

The only player that could be argued for is Best. Tell me, which squad do you think is the stronger one?

Unfair to compare as for the Int squad Kidney couldn't pick any of the Leinster players.

Size=everything

Chucky the tree wrote: »

So Boss is now ahead of stringer, Cronin ahead of best and Neil best/Chris henry ahead of Leamy for selection?

I don't think theres much between Boss and Stringer, Rory Best didn't play in the CC because he has already proven himself and yes Neil Best is ahead of Leamy on current form.