The Sub 3 Support Thread

rooneyjm

Run and Jump wrote: »

Name|5k|5m|10k|10m|HM|Mara|Target Race

I feel my marathon PB is soft compared to my shorter race PBs, and even those are mostly from hilly courses in the Phoenix Park such as the Race Series. I'm aiming to get under 3:15 or even close to 3:10 at DCM 2016 and then having a proper crack at sub-3 in 2017.

Probably in the exact same boat myself RunandJump. Wondering should we be doing anything specific to convert projected marathon time to an actual result.

Run and Jump

rooneyjm wrote: »

Probably in the exact same boat myself RunandJump. Wondering should we be doing anything specific to convert projected marathon time to an actual result.

Just good, sensible training should do the trick for me. I ran that 3:26 PB at DCM 2013. In 2014 I tried the P&D 18-55 plan, which in hindsight had its good points but wasn't the right fit for me. And in 2015 I got a bad chest infection the week before my spring marathon, which I ran anyway - I had a decent race but I never really got over it in time for DCM 2015.

So, lessons learned and a solid base of training so far in 2016, with a gradual increase in mileage to go with good regular club sessions. Optimistic for a much better run in Dublin this year and, as I said, with a view to a sub-3 in 2017. Good luck with yours!

overpronator

So what are peoples plans for the coming weeks and months race wise and more importantly are you having a crack off it in the Autumn?
For me Ill be racing the Bob Heffernon 5k on Tuesday week, it will be my first race in nearly 6 months and after a stop start first few months of the year I'm not sure where I'm at. Sub 18 will be the target but I wouldn't be full of confidence. After that I'm going to continue to follow the club plan and probably race Dunshaughlin before looking to get into a marathon plan ahead of Berlin. Id say I will race the National Half in the training block as a tune up to decide what to target on the day.

AuldManKing

overpronator wrote: »

So what are peoples plans for the coming weeks and months race wise .

I was tempted originally by the Waterford half, but decided against.

Terenure this weekend, maybe Dunboyne BHAA 5m and Dunshaughlin.
Might do St Cocoas 5k before my holidays toward the end of June.

For the marathon training block - I'll be racing Athlone HM and possibly a couple of shorter Sat races that dont require much tapering or have too much impact on the training schedule.

I plan on doing the Race series 10m & HM as MP workouts plus also the 3/4 marathon either at 95% MP or as some form of workout e.g. 3x5m

HurlyBurly

Was thinking of trying Longford at the end of August (heard it described as a fast course but lonely) and if there's any problems or training doesn't go to plan (18 weeks, 2 done) have 2 months to reset for Dublin. (Can't really afford the trips abroad right now so keeping the focus on Irish marathons)

tang1

AuldManKing wrote: »

I was tempted originally by the Waterford half, but decided against.

Terenure this weekend, maybe Dunboyne BHAA 5m and Dunshaughlin.
Might do St Cocoas 5k before my holidays toward the end of June.

For the marathon training block - I'll be racing Athlone HM and possibly a couple of shorter Sat races that dont require much tapering or have too much impact on the training schedule.

I plan on doing the Race series 10m & HM as MP workouts plus also the 3/4 marathon either at 95% MP or as some form of workout e.g. 3x5m

The 3/4 should have less impact on the body seeing it's moved from the hills around Glasson to the relative flatness of Longwood.

FBOT01

overpronator wrote: »

So what are peoples plans for the coming weeks and months race wise ...........

After Boston I am back sitting on the fence and haven't decided when I will go again. In the short-term I hoping to do Terenure on Sunday and Dunshaughlin in June. Plan is to run these as hard as possible and see where the body and mind are before making any plans for the rest of the year.

Wild Garlic

Wild Garlic wrote: »

Ah sure why not.
I'll be giving DCM a lash this year and if I don't go sub 3 I'll never lace another pair of Asics again😀. This will be only my second attempt at the distance, the first been DCM '13.
PB's are;
5k 18:04(few weeks ago)
5 mile 31:43(Jan 15)
10k 38:23( feb 16)
10 mile, yet to do one
HM 87:07 (sept 15)

Would someone mind sticking my stats into the table. And maybe add my marathon PB(3:43), ta very much.

Gavlor

AuldManKing wrote: »

I was tempted originally by the Waterford half, but decided against.

Worried about not finishing within 5 minutes of me?!!

overpronator

AuldManKing wrote: »

I plan on doing the Race series 10m & HM as MP workouts plus also the 3/4 marathon either at 95% MP or as some form of workout e.g. 3x5m

Will plan to do the Frank Duffy as a MP session too, will give u a shout for that. Less likely to attempt to race it last minute if there is someone else in the session.

AuldManKing

overpronator wrote: »

Will plan to do the Frank Duffy as a MP session too, will give u a shout for that. Less likely to attempt to race it last minute if there is someone else in the session.

Check out the new route !

Duanington

overpronator wrote: »

So what are peoples plans for the coming weeks and months race wise and more importantly are you having a crack off it in the Autumn?
For me Ill be racing the Bob Heffernon 5k on Tuesday week, it will be my first race in nearly 6 months and after a stop start first few months of the year I'm not sure where I'm at. Sub 18 will be the target but I wouldn't be full of confidence. After that I'm going to continue to follow the club plan and probably race Dunshaughlin before looking to get into a marathon plan ahead of Berlin. Id say I will race the National Half in the training block as a tune up to decide what to target on the day.

Terenure this weekend,
June - Dunhsaughlin ( maybe a parkrun the week before or else ST Cocoa's later in the month)...
July - Achill Half ( MP session most likely ), Mullingar 10...
August I'll race the Boston Scientific half ( Clonmel I think), I'll really aim to nail this one with Berlin the following month

overpronator

Duanington wrote: »

Terenure this weekend,
June - Dunhsaughlin ( maybe a parkrun the week before or else ST Cocoa's later in the month)...
July - Achill Half ( MP session most likely ), Tullamore 10...
August I'll race the Boston Scientific half ( Clonmel I think), I'll really aim to nail this one with Berlin the following month

Any particular reason for Clonmel D? Im open to avoiding the pig of a course that is the national half!

overpronator

AuldManKing wrote: »

Check out the new route !

Ha! Cant decide if i like it or i dont!

Duanington

overpronator wrote: »

Any particular reason for Clonmel D? Im open to avoiding the pig of a course that is the national half!

Well the timing works for me OP, - the profile looks reasonable too, testing enough to give a solid test but fair enough at the same time that a well timed, confidence boosting PB should be on the cards. Dublin isn't an option and the RnR doesn't interest me at all to be honest

tang1

overpronator wrote: »

Any particular reason for Clonmel D? Im open to avoiding the pig of a course that is the national half!

Clonmel ain't a walk in the park either!!

overpronator

Duanington wrote: »

Well the timing works for me OP, - the profile looks reasonable too, testing enough to give a solid test but fair enough at the same time that a well timed, confidence boosting PB should be on the cards. Dublin isn't an option and the RnR doesn't interest me at all to be honest

Yeah im similar, the RnR is just means to an end really for me. Could join you in Tipp yet.

Duanington

tang1 wrote: »

Clonmel ain't a walk in the park either!!

Deffo not Tang but I think its a better route overall compared to the RnR anyway

Duanington

overpronator wrote: »

Yeah im similar, the RnR is just means to an end really for me. Could join you in Tipp yet.

Excellent - the course profile is over on the race profiles section so have a look

tang1

Duanington wrote: »

Deffo not Tang but I think its a better route overall compared to the RnR anyway

Ah no it's a good race, just wasn't hugely fit when I done it, rolling route, keep something in the tank for the climb around mile 11, very deceiving and goes on longer than you think.

Duanington

tang1 wrote: »

Ah no it's a good race, just wasn't hugely fit when I done it, rolling route, keep something in the tank for the climb around mile 11, very deceiving and goes on longer than you think.

When did you run it B? I actually like the idea of a few climbs to be honest, once they come back down of course !

tang1

Duanington wrote: »

When did you run it B? I actually like the idea of a few climbs to be honest, once they come back down of course !

2014, myself and Bulmers74 done it and ran the same time to the hundredth of a second!! I remember there was one serious downhill after halfway, kept going for about a mile or so. Think there was 1,500 odd doing it year we ran. It's the race I reckoned I done my left hip in!!

Bulmers74

tang1 wrote: »

2014, myself and Bulmers74 done it and ran the same time to the hundredth of a second!! I remember there was one serious downhill after halfway, kept going for about a mile or so. Think there was 1,500 odd doing it year we ran. It's the race I reckoned I done my left hip in!!

Good course alright. I think the real trick is to get the pacing right for the first couple of miles until you turn left off the main Waterford Limerick road at Barne (mile 3ish). Some fast miles on country roads then with the odd little pull. About mile 10 you come back into Clonmel crossing the river & there's a full mile of a drag. Last couple of miles on the bypass are slightly downhill & you can crank it up if you've got the pacing right. The year I did it I blew up on the hill & lost 3 minutes over the last 3 miles

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/course/7761450

rooneyjm

tang1 wrote: »

AuldManKing wrote: »

I was tempted originally by the Waterford half, but decided against.

Terenure this weekend, maybe Dunboyne BHAA 5m and Dunshaughlin.
Might do St Cocoas 5k before my holidays toward the end of June.

For the marathon training block - I'll be racing Athlone HM and possibly a couple of shorter Sat races that dont require much tapering or have too much impact on the training schedule.

I plan on doing the Race series 10m & HM as MP workouts plus also the 3/4 marathon either at 95% MP or as some form of workout e.g. 3x5m

The 3/4 should have less impact on the body seeing it's moved from the hills around Glasson to the relative flatness of Longwood.

Good, I think I left my marathon on that course in 2012. The last section was brutal

ger664

I you want to do a MP session do it solo somewhere. I think you are better served actually racing the race seris at full tilt. The exception been the 3/4 Marathon or 30 Mile Human race as these are too close to Dublin. I would avoid these as its too easy to get carried along with faster runners and end up shooting your load a few weeks too soon.

davedanon

ger664 wrote: »

and end up shooting your load a few weeks too soon.

there's coming too early, and coming TOO EARLY.

AuldManKing

ger664 wrote: »

I you want to do a MP session do it solo somewhere. I think you are better served actually racing the race seris at full tilt. The exception been the 3/4 Marathon or 30 Mile Human race as these are too close to Dublin. I would avoid these as its too easy to get carried along with faster runners and end up shooting your load a few weeks too soon.

I think the taper and recovery after the 10m & HM impact on training too much.
I'll be using them as a tool for MP sessions as part of a longer run.

I'll be racing Athlone HM as its 1 week earlier than Race Series HM.
I agree with the need to be cautious on the 3/4 marathon - its a good one for a final long session if you can hold the discipline.

demfad

rooneyjm wrote: »

Probably in the exact same boat myself RunandJump. Wondering should we be doing anything specific to convert projected marathon time to an actual result.

Ye would probably need to focus on endurance. You would need to check your splits to analyse any fade in your marathons.
To focus on endurance: increase mileage, slowly build up long runs-plenty of them,
When these are established: do some long runs with fast finishes, some longish stead runs slightly slower than PMP eg 95% and then move on to some PMP. I would be more biased to PMP at the end of longer runs to cut out a fade--rather than shorter runs with more PMP.Also to balance the endurance with touches of leg speed, Do some strides/aerobic strides every week.
e.g 10 x 100m at the end of an easy run, 6 x 30 seconds fast at the end of a run, or even a full session of 200's relaxed then jog for 200 every couple of weeks.

Find a schedule that's endurance based and be heavily biased to the endurance sessions.
That will get rid of the fade and should put your times in line with predictions.

rooneyjm

AuldManKing wrote: »

ger664 wrote: »

I you want to do a MP session do it solo somewhere. I think you are better served actually racing the race seris at full tilt. The exception been the 3/4 Marathon or 30 Mile Human race as these are too close to Dublin. I would avoid these as its too easy to get carried along with faster runners and end up shooting your load a few weeks too soon.

I think the taper and recovery after the 10m & HM impact on training too much.
I'll be using them as a tool for MP sessions as part of a longer run.

I'll be racing Athlone HM as its 1 week earlier than Race Series HM.
I agree with the need to be cautious on the 3/4 marathon - its a good one for a final long session if you can hold the discipline.

Why do them, just keep the few quid and go for the run yourself?

rooneyjm

AuldManKing wrote: »

ger664 wrote: »

I you want to do a MP session do it solo somewhere. I think you are better served actually racing the race seris at full tilt. The exception been the 3/4 Marathon or 30 Mile Human race as these are too close to Dublin. I would avoid these as its too easy to get carried along with faster runners and end up shooting your load a few weeks too soon.

I think the taper and recovery after the 10m & HM impact on training too much.
I'll be using them as a tool for MP sessions as part of a longer run.

I'll be racing Athlone HM as its 1 week earlier than Race Series HM.
I agree with the need to be cautious on the 3/4 marathon - its a good one for a final long session if you can hold the discipline.

Why do them, just keep the few quid and go for the run yourself?