The Sub 3 Support Thread

rooneyjm

demfad wrote: »

rooneyjm wrote: »

Probably in the exact same boat myself RunandJump. Wondering should we be doing anything specific to convert projected marathon time to an actual result.

Ye would probably need to focus on endurance. You would need to check your splits to analyse any fade in your marathons.
To focus on endurance: increase mileage, slowly build up long runs-plenty of them,
When these are established: do some long runs with fast finishes, some longish stead runs slightly slower than PMP eg 95% and then move on to some PMP. I would be more biased to PMP at the end of longer runs to cut out a fade--rather than shorter runs with more PMP.Also to balance the endurance with touches of leg speed, Do some strides/aerobic strides every week.
e.g 10 x 100m at the end of an easy run, 6 x 30 seconds fast at the end of a run, or even a full session of 200's relaxed then jog for 200 every couple of weeks.

Find a schedule that's endurance based and be heavily biased to the endurance sessions.
That will get rid of the fade and should put your times in line with predictions.

Cheers, plenty of fade. Came off the Queensbourgh bridge at 16miles and pace had dropped off by 20sec/mile. Would P&D fall into that bracket?

AuldManKing

rooneyjm wrote: »

Why do them, just keep the few quid and go for the run yourself?

Thanks for that - hadn't thought of that :P

Why do them??

(1) Running 10/13 miles at the end of a 20 miler is tough - so easier in race conditions.
(2) Practice taking on water/gels etc at specific stations while at MP
(3) Its a good event that I've enjoyed in the past.
(4) I have a certain anxiety around races - this helps that.
(5) Maybe I'm loaded and like spending money :pac::pac:

My plan has a lot of MP miles in it that I'll be doing on my own - upto 10m as part of a 16 mile run for quite a few weeks - this is an extension of that and lessens the boredom of doing them on my own.

AuldManKing

Name|5k|5m|10k|10m|HM|Mara|Target Race
McMillan |18:28|30:28|38:22|1:04:07|1:25:32|3:00:00|Ref Times
TbL |19:27|31:xx|39:30|1:04:xx|1:25:xx|3:05:xx|TBC 2016
FBOT|17:42|29:59|38:42|1:00:34|1:26:02|3:00:59|TBC
AMK|17:38|29:13|37:40|1:02:30|1:27:xx|3:02:22|DCM 2016
Tomwaits48|19:17|32:00|39:xx|1:05:45|1:28:xx|3:17:xx|TBC 2017
Duanington|17:35|29:17|36:36|1:01:42|1:23:22|3:03:xx|Berlin 2016
MrMacPhisto|17:23|29:01|36:42|1:01:55|1:22:53|3:00:56|Valencia 2016
snailsong|19:06|31:49|39:11|N/A|1:28:20|3:06:52|TBC 2017
rooneyjm|19:35|N/A|39:20|1:08:xx|1:29:37|3:23:xx|DCM 2016
davedanon|18:34|31:34|39:51|1:06:21|1:30:30|3:14:18|Berlin 2016
Itziger|17:50|29:52|36:48|N/A|1:22:04|3:03:28|TBC 2016
Sandwell|17:24|28:57|37:10|0:59:29|1:22:xx|6N/A|TBC 2016
Tomred1N |19:01|32:25|41:40|1:05:57|1:28:30|3:12:41|TBC 2020
Ainsyjnr |18:32|30:07|36:50|1:02:24|1:24:04|3:01:46|TBC
Averagejoe123|17:47|30:26|38:41|1:04:45|1:27:xx|3:17:xx|TBC 2017
Kemboi|18:00|29:50|38:00|1:05:50|1:25:30|3:07:xx|DCM 2016
CR 7|17:45|30:30|37:21|1:04:50|1:23:25|5:04:xx|TBC 2016
Run and Jump|19:25|33:29|41:22|1:07:09|1:28:51|3:26:14|TBC 2017
El Caballo|18:34|31:15|39:46|1:05:xx|1:26:26|3:15:29|TBC 2017
Bulmers74|18:54|31:46|39:33|1:06:00|1:26:27|3:08:36|TBC 2016
ger664|19:45|N/A|41:11|1:09:33|1:35:56|3:18:12|TBC 2017/18
Jahaco|19:22|31:08|39:07|1:04:19|1:26:23|3:03:19|DCM 2016
rom|17:42|30:29|n/a|1:02:18|1:26:59|2:54:21|London 2017
SlowTwitch|19:00|31:08|39:31|1:05:09|1:26:00|3:00:22|BetterLongDist
MediumTwitch|18:40|30:40|39:01|1:04:31|1:26:13|2:59:46|BetterMedDist
FastTwitcher|18:22|30:16|38:34|1:03:57|1:25:45|2:59:36|BetterShortDist


Changing my Marathon PB after confirmation from Manchester Marathon Organisers.

davedanon

AuldManKing wrote: »

Changing my Marathon PB after confirmation from Manchester Marathon Organisers.

Seriously? PB wiped out?

Bummer!

AuldManKing

davedanon wrote: »

Seriously? PB wiped out?

Bummer!

Yep, they added my average pace from the final 6 miles to the 380 meters that it was short.

Murph_D

Name|5k|5m|10k|10m|HM|Mara|Target Race
McMillan |18:28|30:28|38:22|1:04:07|1:25:32|3:00:00|Ref Times
TbL |19:27|31:xx|39:30|1:04:xx|1:25:xx|3:05:xx|TBC 2016
FBOT|17:42|29:59|38:42|1:00:34|1:26:02|3:00:59|TBC
AMK|17:38|29:13|37:40|1:02:30|1:27:xx|3:02:22|DCM 2016
Tomwaits48|19:17|32:00|39:xx|1:05:45|1:28:xx|3:17:xx|TBC 2017
Duanington|17:35|29:17|36:36|1:01:42|1:23:22|3:03:xx|Berlin 2016
MrMacPhisto|17:23|29:01|36:42|1:01:55|1:22:53|3:00:56|Valencia 2016
snailsong|19:06|31:49|39:11|N/A|1:28:20|3:06:52|TBC 2017
rooneyjm|19:35|N/A|39:20|1:08:xx|1:29:37|3:23:xx|DCM 2016
davedanon|18:34|31:34|39:51|1:06:21|1:30:30|3:14:18|Berlin 2016
Itziger|17:50|29:52|36:48|N/A|1:22:04|3:03:28|TBC 2016
Sandwell|17:24|28:57|37:10|0:59:29|1:22:xx|N/A|TBC 2016
Tomred1N |19:01|32:25|41:40|1:05:57|1:28:30|3:12:41|TBC 2020
Ainsyjnr |18:32|30:07|36:50|1:02:24|1:24:04|3:01:46|TBC
Averagejoe123|17:47|30:26|38:41|1:04:45|1:27:xx|3:17:xx|TBC 2017
Kemboi|18:00|29:50|38:00|1:05:50|1:25:30|3:07:xx|DCM 2016
CR 7|17:45|30:30|37:21|1:04:50|1:23:25|5:04:xx|TBC 2016
Run and Jump|19:25|33:29|41:22|1:07:09|1:28:51|3:26:14|TBC 2017
El Caballo|18:34|31:15|39:46|1:05:xx|1:26:26|3:15:29|TBC 2017
Bulmers74|18:54|31:46|39:33|1:06:00|1:26:27|3:08:36|TBC 2016
ger664|19:45|N/A|41:11|1:09:33|1:35:56|3:18:12|TBC 2017/18
Jahaco|19:22|31:08|39:07|1:04:19|1:26:23|3:03:19|DCM 2016
rom|17:42|30:29|n/a|1:02:18|1:26:59|2:54:21|London 2017
Wild Garlic|18:04|31:43|38:23|N/A|1:27:07|3:43:xx|TBC
SlowTwitch|19:00|31:08|39:31|1:05:09|1:26:00|3:00:22|BetterLongDist
MediumTwitch|18:40|30:40|39:01|1:04:31|1:26:13|2:59:46|BetterMedDist
FastTwitcher|18:22|30:16|38:34|1:03:57|1:25:45|2:59:36|BetterShortDist

Adding Wild Garlic.

Jmcmen

AuldManKing wrote: »

Name|5k|5m|10k|10m|HM|Mara|Target Race
McMillan |18:28|30:28|38:22|1:04:07|1:25:32|3:00:00|Ref Times
TbL |19:27|31:xx|39:30|1:04:xx|1:25:xx|3:05:xx|TBC 2016
FBOT|17:42|29:59|38:42|1:00:34|1:26:02|3:00:59|TBC
AMK|17:38|29:13|37:40|1:02:30|1:27:xx|3:02:22|DCM 2016
Tomwaits48|19:17|32:00|39:xx|1:05:45|1:28:xx|3:17:xx|TBC 2017
Duanington|17:35|29:17|36:36|1:01:42|1:23:22|3:03:xx|Berlin 2016
MrMacPhisto|17:23|29:01|36:42|1:01:55|1:22:53|3:00:56|Valencia 2016
snailsong|19:06|31:49|39:11|N/A|1:28:20|3:06:52|TBC 2017
rooneyjm|19:35|N/A|39:20|1:08:xx|1:29:37|3:23:xx|DCM 2016
davedanon|18:34|31:34|39:51|1:06:21|1:30:30|3:14:18|Berlin 2016
Itziger|17:50|29:52|36:48|N/A|1:22:04|3:03:28|TBC 2016
Sandwell|17:24|28:57|37:10|0:59:29|1:22:xx|6N/A|TBC 2016
Tomred1N |19:01|32:25|41:40|1:05:57|1:28:30|3:12:41|TBC 2020
Ainsyjnr |18:32|30:07|36:50|1:02:24|1:24:04|3:01:46|TBC
Averagejoe123|17:47|30:26|38:41|1:04:45|1:27:xx|3:17:xx|TBC 2017
Kemboi|18:00|29:50|38:00|1:05:50|1:25:30|3:07:xx|DCM 2016
CR 7|17:45|30:30|37:21|1:04:50|1:23:25|5:04:xx|TBC 2016
Run and Jump|19:25|33:29|41:22|1:07:09|1:28:51|3:26:14|TBC 2017
El Caballo|18:34|31:15|39:46|1:05:xx|1:26:26|3:15:29|TBC 2017
Bulmers74|18:54|31:46|39:33|1:06:00|1:26:27|3:08:36|TBC 2016
ger664|19:45|N/A|41:11|1:09:33|1:35:56|3:18:12|TBC 2017/18
Jahaco|19:22|31:08|39:07|1:04:19|1:26:23|3:03:19|DCM 2016
rom|17:42|30:29|n/a|1:02:18|1:26:59|2:54:21|London 2017
SlowTwitch|19:00|31:08|39:31|1:05:09|1:26:00|3:00:22|BetterLongDist
MediumTwitch|18:40|30:40|39:01|1:04:31|1:26:13|2:59:46|BetterMedDist
FastTwitcher|18:22|30:16|38:34|1:03:57|1:25:45|2:59:36|BetterShortDist


Changing my Marathon PB after confirmation from Manchester Marathon Organisers.

Thats stink Al
How are all the injuries? You going to give Dublin a big push this year so?

AuldManKing

Jmcmen wrote: »

Thats stink Al
How are all the injuries? You going to give Dublin a big push this year so?

Sure am - I think Spollo is too. Injuries all cleared up.
You're keeping quiet.

FBOT01

AuldManKing wrote: »

Yep, they added my average pace from the final 6 miles to the 380 meters that it was short.

However, bad that may be, imagine if you had have gone sub 3 and then they took it back :eek:

AuldManKing

FBOT01 wrote: »

However, bad that may be, imagine if you had have gone sub 3 and then they took it back :eek:

The girl I ran it with ran her 1st sub 3 - her revised time robs her of that

I'm not too upset - it adds to the story...............



Did I ever tell you the time........................

Itziger

AuldManKing wrote: »

The girl I ran it with ran her 1st sub 3 - her revised time robs her of that

I'm not too upset - it adds to the story...............



Did I ever tell you the time........................

Jesus, I'd be devastated, if I were her. If she's young and improving not so much but if she's like some of us, hoping to get to the 2.59 before a hip drops off........

FBOT01

Great stuff going on here. Plenty of food for thought.

Just to chip in with my near miss and the lessons learnt. My PB of 3:00:59 is from Berlin 2014. I trained using the PD 18 wk 55-70 plan. I had a pretty good year of training under my belt and hit all the key sessions and markers. Longest MP was 19 with 15@MP and longest run was 23. PB'd at 10m twice during the cycle. I trained based on 6:45 MP (2:57) and on the day when out at that pace. I held pace for 20 miles and then started to drift. Loss 10-15 sec per mile for the next 4 mile and then 35 secs per mile in Miles 25 and 26. Also ended up clocking 26.44 so the extra 0.24 miles of distance added 00:01:37 as well.

So what went wrong??? Firstly, the temperature was significantly higher than expected and got hotter as day went on. This left me exposed to dehydration. The water was given in cups and I struggled to get water into me. I chose to keep running on what I could take rather than stop and ensure I was getting enough fluid. It was too late by time I recognised this was going to be a problem. I also only took two gels, one at 18miles and another at 22miles. This was more than I took on any training run but throwing a third in late in mile 24 when the wheels started to come off might have helped. I'll never know!!!

Main lesson for me was even if you are well trained, conditions on the day can go against you. You need to ensure that your pace and fuelling strategy is adjusted to give you the best chance of getting the best out yourself in the conditions on offer. Train at an MP that gives you headroom to adjust for race day uncontrollables. Since Berlin I have used 2:55 as my target for training purposes.

Since 2014 I have only run one marathon which was Boston 2016. I was training well in 2014 but an injury in August took me out of Dublin 2015. Despite some decent training in early 2016, a combination of race day conditions and injury meant my sub 3 attempt in Boston in April never materialised.

AuldManKing

To add another question to this thread:

What plan are people using for their 2016 Marathons - and why?

I'll start:

I'm someone who loves looking at plans and I was looking a lot at P&D but I dont think that this plan will play to my weaknesses due to the lack of sessions/MP stuff.
I then done a modified plan doing the sessions from the Steve Way inspired Bournemouth AC sessions (can be found online).

However, after some more research (I really need to 'work' more....) I uncovered a Hanson plan that hits all the buttons for me.

Its a 60-80 mile plan with 6x18 & 6x20 milers included - so not quite what you hear about Hansons plans.

I think its one of their 'paid' plans, but I found it available online with a simple search.

The pro's for me are:

* Plenty of MP miles weekly
* Good range of speed sessions / progresion runs weekly
* Long runs done at 'moderate pace' as opposed to 'slow runs' (as per what Demfad was saying earlier)
* Paces are advised for all runs
* Takes the thinking out of the plan (means I can work more )

Cons are:
* Lack of recovery weeks - I'll need to watch this one and build in when needed.

opus

Itziger wrote: »

Just going to throw this question out there....... What's the slowest HM time for a sub 3 marathon runner that you know of?

My best HM time is 1:24:22, now I feel I should be trying harder

TFBubendorfer

Itziger wrote: »

Just going to throw this question out there....... What's the slowest HM time for a sub 3 marathon runner that you know of?

Claralara used to post here. Her HM time was 1:25:34 and she ran a 2:57:30 marathon, which is the best half/full progression I know of.

FBOT01

AuldManKing wrote: »

To add another question to this thread:

What plan are people using for their 2016 Marathons - and why?

I'll start:

I'm someone who loves looking at plans and I was looking a lot at P&D but I dont think that this plan will play to my weaknesses due to the lack of sessions/MP stuff.
I then done a modified plan doing the sessions from the Steve Way inspired Bournemouth AC sessions (can be found online).

However, after some more research (I really need to 'work' more....) I uncovered a Hanson plan that hits all the buttons for me.

Its a 60-80 mile plan with 6x18 & 6x20 milers included - so not quite what you hear about Hansons plans.

I think its one of their 'paid' plans, but I found it available online with a simple search.

The pro's for me are:

* Plenty of MP miles weekly
* Good range of speed sessions / progresion runs weekly
* Long runs done at 'moderate pace' as opposed to 'slow runs' (as per what Demfad was saying earlier)
* Paces are advised for all runs
* Takes the thinking out of the plan (means I can work more )

Cons are:
* Lack of recovery weeks - I'll need to watch this one and build in when needed.

I have been a P&D for the last few years and haven't tried anything else since I moved away from FIRST in 2012. Will compare that Hanson plan with the P&D 55-70 to see how they differ. Is it the 20w 60-80 one that you are looking at? On first glance I am not sure the no down week concept would work for an auldfella like me.

rooneyjm

FBOT01 wrote: »

Great stuff going on here. Plenty of food for thought.

Just to chip in with my near miss and the lessons learnt. My PB of 3:00:59 is from Berlin 2014. I trained using the PD 18 wk 55-70 plan. I had a pretty good year of training under my belt and hit all the key sessions and markers. Longest MP was 19 with 15@MP and longest run was 23. PB'd at 10m twice during the cycle. I trained based on 6:45 MP (2:57) and on the day when out at that pace. I held pace for 20 miles and then started to drift. Loss 10-15 sec per mile for the next 4 mile and then 35 secs per mile in Miles 25 and 26. Also ended up clocking 26.44 so the extra 0.24 miles of distance added 00:01:37 as well.

So what went wrong??? Firstly, the temperature was significantly higher than expected and got hotter as day went on. This left me exposed to dehydration. The water was given in cups and I struggled to get water into me. I chose to keep running on what I could take rather than stop and ensure I was getting enough fluid. It was too late by time I recognised this was going to be a problem. I also only took two gels, one at 18miles and another at 22miles. This was more than I took on any training run but throwing a third in late in mile 24 when the wheels started to come off might have helped. I'll never know!!!

Main lesson for me was even if you are well trained, conditions on the day can go against you. You need to ensure that your pace and fuelling strategy is adjusted to give you the best chance of getting the best out yourself in the conditions on offer. Train at an MP that gives you headroom to adjust for race day uncontrollables. Since Berlin I have used 2:55 as my target for training purposes.

Since 2014 I have only run one marathon which was Boston 2016. I was training well in 2014 but an injury in August took me out of Dublin 2015. Despite some decent training in early 2016, a combination of race day conditions and injury meant my sub 3 attempt in Boston in April never materialised.

One thing I found hard to get my head around was you didn't do an 18 week plan because you felt you weren't fit enough and opted for a 12 week plan instead?

NY is the same with the cups so I opted to stay on the water as I didn't want to end up feeling like slimer with the Gatorade. Didn't take a gel until 16 mile, Maybe gels earlier in the race would halt you going into the reserves to early? Any nutrition experts out there?

AuldManKing

FBOT01 wrote: »

I have been a P&D for the last few years and haven't tried anything else since I moved away from FIRST in 2012. Will compare that Hanson plan with the P&D 55-70 to see how they differ. Is it the 20w 60-80 one that you are looking at? On first glance I am not sure the no down week concept would work for an auldfella like me.

yeah thats the one.
I'll be building in downweeks, but the recovery runs are prescribed at 8:43 pace for a 2:55 marathon - and theres 2 of these a week.

Edit:Also - due to holidays, I'll be doing 14 weeks of the plan - as the first 4-6 weeks or so of the 20 week plan are base building/transition weeks.

Edit #2: the other con in the plan is the lack of pre planned races, although the book does outline how to account for them.

PaulieYifter

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Claralara used to post here. Her HM time was 1:25:34 and she ran a 2:57:30 marathon, which is the best half/full progression I know of.

FWIW I ran 1:24:02 in Athlone 2 months before a 2:56:44 in San Sebastián

ger664

FBOT01 wrote: »

Also ended up clocking 26.44 so the extra 0.24 miles of distance added 00:01:37 as well.

This is one area that is often overlooked in training. A garmin mile is not a mile we all know this. Yet we will do our MP miles as per the watch.

There are a couple of ways to counter this in MP sessions

• find a known race course where you are reasonably sure of the mile markers
• just add .01 mile to each mile on the Garmin. So 14 mile @ MP is 14.14 miles on the watch
• Reduce pace by 5 seconds/mile 6:42 instead of 6:47

El Caballo

ger664 wrote: »

This is one area that is often overlooked in training. A garmin mile is not a mile we all know this. Yet we will do our MP miles as per the watch.

There are a couple of ways to counter this in MP sessions

• find a known race course where you are reasonably sure of the mile markers
• just add .01 mile to each mile on the Garmin. So 14 mile @ MP is 14.14 miles on the watch
• Reduce pace by 5 seconds/mile 6:42 instead of 6:47

I know this might sound a bit mad for runners but there's no need to be so exacting on measurements in my opinion. There's also on top of that the fact that most of us will be tired on the long run day from the weekly mileage so 6:56 for MP could well be better than 6:42 some days. For a late October marathon, Temps will be much more forgiving than the summer training at MP most of the time. There is also no magic in hitting MP other than it is close to Aerobic Threshold, the difference between 10 seconds slower than PMP and PMP is miniscule in training effect but running to exact PMP on some days has a much bigger downside than running it slower for sub 3 runners because they could pass Aerobic threshold(2 hour pace) if the temps are hotter, the route is hilly or they are tired which changes the stimulus of the workout and therefore the structure of the week.

5 seconds too slow or 16 metres too short is something to maybe worry about on raceday but during training, the difference is so insignificant that their will be absolutely no difference because generally anywhere in the area of the effort/pace will give the same benefits.

overpronator

AuldManKing wrote: »

To add another question to this thread:

What plan are people using for their 2016 Marathons - and why?

I'll start:

I'm someone who loves looking at plans and I was looking a lot at P&D but I dont think that this plan will play to my weaknesses due to the lack of sessions/MP stuff.
I then done a modified plan doing the sessions from the Steve Way inspired Bournemouth AC sessions (can be found online).

However, after some more research (I really need to 'work' more....) I uncovered a Hanson plan that hits all the buttons for me.

Its a 60-80 mile plan with 6x18 & 6x20 milers included - so not quite what you hear about Hansons plans.

I think its one of their 'paid' plans, but I found it available online with a simple search.

The pro's for me are:

* Plenty of MP miles weekly
* Good range of speed sessions / progresion runs weekly
* Long runs done at 'moderate pace' as opposed to 'slow runs' (as per what Demfad was saying earlier)
* Paces are advised for all runs
* Takes the thinking out of the plan (means I can work more )

Cons are:
* Lack of recovery weeks - I'll need to watch this one and build in when needed.

Wouldnt mind taking a look at that plan! Would you have a link?

Bahanaman

PaulieYifter wrote: »

FWIW I ran 1:24:02 in Athlone 2 months before a 2:56:44 in San Sebastián

I did the Clonmel half on the 16th of August last year in 1:26:39 and went on to do the Frankfurt marathon on the 25th of October in 2:54:14. The Clonmel result had me really worried about even doing a sub 3 but I looked on it as the kick up the ass I needed to step up the training!

Gavlor

My plan for fwiw is to run 5 days a week.

Monday - S&C
Tuesday - speed session
Wednesday- MLR
Thursday - tempo
Friday - easy
Saturday or Sunday LSR

Throw in a few races and that's pretty much it. As I've said before, I've no intention of being a slave to a plan. The majority of the above will be done with club mates.

davedanon

Can someone answer a question for me? What is the point of the midweek MLR? Is it solely to bulk up the overall volume, or does it have some other specific purpose?

Gavlor

davedanon wrote: »

Can someone answer a question for me? What is the point of the midweek MLR? Is it solely to bulk up the overall volume, or does it have some other specific purpose?

Endurance and volume for me...

davedanon

Gavlor wrote: »

Endurance and volume for me...

doesn't the SLR take care of that though? I remember seeing the MLR in P&D plans and groaning at the mere prospect of running 15 miles on a Wednesday, after a tempo on the Tuesday and with a track session to come on the Thursday. Would a double on the Wednesday achieve the same effect, do you reckon?

FBOT01

rooneyjm wrote: »

One thing I found hard to get my head around was you didn't do an 18 week plan because you felt you weren't fit enough and opted for a 12 week plan instead?

NY is the same with the cups so I opted to stay on the water as I didn't want to end up feeling like slimer with the Gatorade. Didn't take a gel until 16 mile, Maybe gels earlier in the race would halt you going into the reserves to early? Any nutrition experts out there?

The reason why I didn't jump into an 18 week plan for Boston was to try to ensure I gave myself as much time as possible to recover from my hip/glute problem and had enough base mileage built up before jumping into some of the higher intensity stuff that I knew would come with the start of the marathon plan. I was already entered in Boston so the first aim was to try to make sure I got to the start line in the best shape I could be coming off injury. I was trying to find a workable balance which I obviously didn't manage. I think the 12 week plan was actually the right call. The bad call was not to keeping up the S&C and rehab work as preventative maintenance during the 12 weeks:o

FBOT01

overpronator wrote: »

Wouldnt mind taking a look at that plan! Would you have a link?

https://ef0fa82a828642ab5cb8159b16e1292993008988.googledrive.com/host/0B4s18e_90OPWNmlIblJzWnI0aWs/RunningStuff/MarathonTrainingPlans/TrainingPlans/HansonM_20w_60-80mpw.pdf

Itziger

No excuses for not hitting the 2.59 lads. But remember, NO ICE in the whiskey.

To speed up absorption of the steroids and shorten the detection
window, he dissolved the drugs in alcohol — Chivas whiskey for men,
Martini vermouth for women.

From the Russkie doping lad in the NY Times.