The Sub 3 Support Thread

ploughon

Just listened to episode 72 of marathon talk today, with Ed Whitlock being interviewed. He was regularly knocking out sub 3 hour marathons in his seventies!!
His training routine at the time was, a 3 hour slow run, seven days a week!!!
With the odd shorter race thrown in for speed work.

I might have to look again at my traing plan:eek:

dublin runner

tomwaits48 wrote:

19:25 in a 5k last night...making the step to mid 18s in line with a sub 3 marathon standard seems a tall order right now! On target for 3.10ish this year on that basis. Will keep trucking along in training for now.

Would not read too much into a 5k time when discussing possible marathon time, be it good or bad. It has virtually no relation to the marathon distance in my opinion. Still, nice to run a good time!

Itziger

Did first 20 miler in a long time this morning. Went well enough. Started easy and upped it a bit for most of the second half. Avg pace of 4.45 for a 2.32 time.

ThebitterLemon

Ran 19.25 5k last nigh which was a two second PB but it was almost a minute faster than 6 weeks ago over the same course. Most race prediction calculators wouldn't haven't me within an ass's roar of a sub 3 but I reckon I fall into Demfads slow twitch category and I'm actually happy with the progress I'm making. I've never run a sub 6 min mile in any race but I'd like to think that before the summers over I could string three 6 min miles together for a reasonable 5k time.

I hate 5k's though, they are a painfest and mentally tough.

TbL

snailsong

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Ran 19.25 5k last nigh which was a two second PB but it was almost a minute faster than 6 weeks ago over the same course. Most race prediction calculators wouldn't haven't me within an ass's roar of a sub 3 but I reckon I fall into Demfads slow twitch category and I'm actually happy with the progress I'm making. I've never run a sub 6 min mile in any race but I'd like to think that before the summers over I could string three 6 min miles together for a reasonable 5k time.

I hate 5k's though, they are a painfest and mentally tough.

TbL

Well done on the improvement. It's always nice to be moving in the right direction.

Ran 18:50 myself last night in Ballyhaunis. My first sub 19 and 45 seconds faster than when I last ran that course in 2014. Thrilled of course. Fell into place nicely on the night. Got to the startline and some clubmates were recruiting for a sub 19 attempt. The group was a great help, though I was the last one standing up the final hill at 4.5 k.

As Dublin runner said, 5k times have little bearing on your marathon but still, I'd love to tick the first box on that table.
Off to the Clare Burren marathon on Saturday. Just a training run really and probably not even sub 4.

demfad

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Ran 19.25 5k last nigh which was a two second PB but it was almost a minute faster than 6 weeks ago over the same course. Most race prediction calculators wouldn't haven't me within an ass's roar of a sub 3 but I reckon I fall into Demfads slow twitch category and I'm actually happy with the progress I'm making. I've never run a sub 6 min mile in any race but I'd like to think that before the summers over I could string three 6 min miles together for a reasonable 5k time.

I hate 5k's though, they are a painfest and mentally tough.

TbL

It looks like you are indeed TBL. Your 10k times and upwards seem to be aligned that way. Your marathon PB is out a bit. Don't mean to ask too directly but were you in good shape for that or did you have issues on the day?
The alternations that Krusty mentioned are really good for slow twitch runners. Slow twitch fibres are really good at using lactate as energy. As youre slow twicth you can run the steady (recovery) portions at a good clip.
You can also do alternations off 5k/10k etc paces so if you were tempted you could try a couple of sessions while targeting shorter distances. (examples in Magness's book).

Note* alternations aren't as great for FT runners. FT fibres are bad at using lactate. FT runners have less ST fibres anyway to benefit from using lactate as energy and they have to slow right down to recover.
That is why a fast mile during a marathon is a massive danger to an FT'er:
-The runner is better able to accidentally blast out a fast mile (more FT fibres)
-The runner is less able to recover from it (less ST fibres to re-use lactate)

Anyway, If the 3:05 time was down to endurance/fade then its happy days: After your short distance phase, bazooka your endurance while keeping the faster stuff just ticking over.
If you have particular muscular issues when going passed HM distance then I would look at making the week feel 'easier' (discussed a few pages back) and building up running strenght slowly and safety.

averagejoe123

I'm looking at possibly doing the P&D 70 mile 18 week plan for Dublin 2016. This would have the plan starting June 27 if no buffer weeks are used. For people who have used the plan before what sort of mileage did you in the weeks before starting? The first 4 weeks of the plan are 53,56,58,62 so I was thinking 40, 45, 50 which would be pretty much in line with current mileage. This would leave an extra week as a buffer if needed. Does this sound about right?

Thanks

Joe

demfad

averagejoe123 wrote: »

I'm looking at possibly doing the P&D 70 mile 18 week plan for Dublin 2016. This would have the plan starting June 27 if no buffer weeks are used. For people who have used the plan before what sort of mileage did you in the weeks before starting? The first 4 weeks of the plan are 53,56,58,62 so I was thinking 40, 45, 50 which would be pretty much in line with current mileage. This would leave an extra week as a buffer if needed. Does this sound about right?

Thanks

Joe

I would suggest you need to feel rested starting the plan. The mileage might be fine. Just make sure those weeks aren't a struggle.
Is 40 mpw your average or max mileage now?

averagejoe123

demfad wrote: »

I would suggest you need to feel rested starting the plan. The mileage might be fine. Just make sure those weeks aren't a struggle.
Is 40 mpw your average or max mileage now?

40 mpw would be my average for the last 3 months whilst training for shorter stuff. 2015 Average was 40+ mostly as part of marathon training. The reason I'm drawn towards the 70/18 plan is it has a lot of slowish miles and I am looking to improve endurance initially. There is a pretty big gap between my 5k pb 17.47 and my marathon of 3.17. I would like to see what improvements would come from the plan but I also don't want to be biting off more than I can chew.

demfad

averagejoe123 wrote: »

40 mpw would be my average for the last 3 months whilst training for shorter stuff. 2015 Average was 40+ mostly as part of marathon training. The reason I'm drawn towards the 70/18 plan is it has a lot of slowish miles and I am looking to improve endurance initially. There is a pretty big gap between my 5k pb 17.47 and my marathon of 3.17. I would like to see what improvements would come from the plan but I also don't want to be biting off more than I can chew.

Sounds fine, good plan. You will make a lot of your time by your focus on endurance IMO.

Just go very easy for the 3 weeks:

You could go 40, 48 to 50, 35 or similar also (if the jump to 48 to 50 is not a big risk).
The advantage there is that you have a biggish week in the bag but you have an easy week just before starting. The mileage buildup should feel comfortable so adjust easy pace accordingly.
Your suggestion would be fine in my opinion once you are certain the mileage will be sustainable. If you get through that plan focusing on endurance you'll do very well. Therefore focus on the 'getting through' part.
Easy does it.

AuldManKing

demfad wrote: »

Note* alternations aren't as great for FT runners. FT fibres are bad at using lactate. FT runners have less ST fibres anyway to benefit from using lactate as energy and they have to slow right down to recover.
That is why a fast mile during a marathon is a massive danger to an FT'er:
-The runner is better able to accidentally blast out a fast mile (more FT fibres)
-The runner is less able to recover from it (less ST fibres to re-use lactate)

If you are a fast twitch runner and plan on running a marathon - should that fact (FT V ST) impact on the type of plan you use for your training?

FBOT01

averagejoe123 wrote: »

I'm looking at possibly doing the P&D 70 mile 18 week plan for Dublin 2016. This would have the plan starting June 27 if no buffer weeks are used. For people who have used the plan before what sort of mileage did you in the weeks before starting? The first 4 weeks of the plan are 53,56,58,62 so I was thinking 40, 45, 50 which would be pretty much in line with current mileage. This would leave an extra week as a buffer if needed. Does this sound about right?

Thanks

Joe

I've done that plan a couple of times at this stage with two cycles in 2014 but didn't race a goal marathon off the first one as Kildare was cancelled so ended up just doing Conn with some friends instead. My current PB came off the second cycle. I definitely think it added greatly to my endurance and helped lay a decent foundation. The extra mileage lead to some elements of fatigue and exposed a few muscle weaknesses that needed to be addressed. Would've liked if I had have built in a buffer week. Don't neglect the non-running extras when the mileage increases these are key IMO to as Demfad says "getting through" it.

Best of luck with the plan and will look forward to hearing how you get on with it. ENJOY!!!

ThebitterLemon

demfad wrote: »

It looks like you are indeed TBL. Your 10k times and upwards seem to be aligned that way. Your marathon PB is out a bit. Don't mean to ask too directly but were you in good shape for that or did you have issues on the day?
The alternations that Krusty mentioned are really good for slow twitch runners. Slow twitch fibres are really good at using lactate as energy. As youre slow twicth you can run the steady (recovery) portions at a good clip.
You can also do alternations off 5k/10k etc paces so if you were tempted you could try a couple of sessions while targeting shorter distances. (examples in Magness's book).

Note* alternations aren't as great for FT runners. FT fibres are bad at using lactate. FT runners have less ST fibres anyway to benefit from using lactate as energy and they have to slow right down to recover.
That is why a fast mile during a marathon is a massive danger to an FT'er:
-The runner is better able to accidentally blast out a fast mile (more FT fibres)
-The runner is less able to recover from it (less ST fibres to re-use lactate)

Anyway, If the 3:05 time was down to endurance/fade then its happy days: After your short distance phase, bazooka your endurance while keeping the faster stuff just ticking over.
If you have particular muscular issues when going passed HM distance then I would look at making the week feel 'easier' (discussed a few pages back) and building up running strenght slowly and safety.

Tnx Demfad,

I did the 3.05 in Valencia on a pretty hot day. It wasn't my goal marathon, that was Amsterdam 4 weeks before Valencia. I felt I was in super shape for Amsterdam with a very solid training base (I also did my half marathon pb during this cycle and ran the Moone kilo marathon @ 6.47 pace finishing very strong.) and I was very confident I'd go sub 3.05 and wouldn't have been completely surprised if I'd gone sub 3. It just didn't happen on the day in Amsterdam and I limped home in 3.10. I decided to run Valencia as a "freebie" race on the back of the training cycle and just did some maintenance runs for the 4 weeks after Amsterdam. It was very hot on the day in Valencia and I probably had a little more in the tank on the day (but not enough for a sub 3), however I was a little burnt after Amsterdam and took a more conservative approach so that I didn't blow up. Was very happy with the 3.05 and thought I'd easily kick on from there but injuries and work have gotten in the way since.

Am determined to rectify it now though!

I don't think I have endurance issues as I come from a multi marathon background and have done some ultras.

TbL

overpronator

The P&D 55-70 plan should be called the sub 3 plan imo, as far as a generic plan can go its very effective for alot of people seemingly. I followed it for London last year and went from 3.15 to 2.58. I felt a bit flat on the day as i got my eating wrong the day before (overloaded on carbs and couldnt get some essential jobs done on race morning) but i was strong as an ox running wise. I think with a 17.4x 5k PB the speed is nailed, 55-70 will tick your endurance box. Youll be a hardy runner after it. When i followed it I had 7 or 8 weeks in the 50s and a couple in the 60s beforehand. In the text of the book they reccomend (correct me if im wrong) a 40mpw week average in the weeks/months leading up.

iancairns

Hey all!

Yes great to see thread up and running, always inspired reading how people get on.

My background...,

Long time lurker on here, actually might have posted before when training for DCM in 2014. Ended up breaking my wrist in 5 a side that year 3 weeks out and ran 3:18. (Ripped off heavy cast, night before run) that ended up being PB by 2mins, just ran how I felt and ended up feeling best marathon yet. (4th marathon)
My PB times are
5K - 17:30 2014 Jingle Bells, fast course. Have done several low 18's and could prob get 17's if practiced 5K's. Haven't done parkruns this year.
10K - 37:30 Run in the Dark 2014
HM - 1:23:30 Clontarf Novemeber 2014, after DCM
Marathon attempts - DCM 2012 3:31, Portumna 2012 3:29, Paris 2014 3:20, DCM 2014 3:18

Paris was targeting 3:05ish and blew up from mile 17 onwards, was horrific. Walked for ages, put the marathon fears in me.

I think my times above show I have the speed?? although haven't run fast this year yet. Purely haven't entered the races but will target some.

I think my issue had been low mileage, rarely ever done a 40mile week, if I did half of it was prob a 20mile run.

Pre Paris, I was running all my runs at marathon pace or quicker so my LSR's were too fast apparently.
I was able to clock a 20miler at 7mins 05 per mile and going up and around Howth Hill,
Paris was hot as well, but yeah think low mileage killed me.

So this year I've been running steady and consistently, prob in best shape physique wise.
Ran the wings for life 20mile and some HM distance runs every second week,

I'm missing DCM this year due to wedding and same happened last year but I got into the New York Marathon thru lottery so chuffed with that.

I'm sure someone's ran it here and probably not a sub 3hr target course but thinking I might at least train for that to be target. I think maybe try the up to 55 P&D plan, or I have the Jack Daniels running book so maybe something in there.
I'm running 3/4 times a week which is more than ever before. All running has been easy ish miles. Where before I used to always run hard. Might need to re introduce some of these tempos.
I'm 100% commited to sticking to a plan this time. Quieter summer than previous years, (no weddings or festivals!)

Worst case deffo think capable of sub 3:10 at least.



All suggestions welcome!

Thanks!

Ian

demfad

iancairns wrote: »

Hey all!

Yes great to see thread up and running, always inspired reading how people get on.

My background...,

Long time lurker on here, actually might have posted before when training for DCM in 2014. Ended up breaking my wrist in 5 a side that year 3 weeks out and ran 3:18. (Ripped off heavy cast, night before run) that ended up being PB by 2mins, just ran how I felt and ended up feeling best marathon yet. (4th marathon)
My PB times are
5K - 17:30 2014 Jingle Bells, fast course. Have done several low 18's and could prob get 17's if practiced 5K's. Haven't done parkruns this year.
10K - 37:30 Run in the Dark 2014
HM - 1:23:30 Clontarf Novemeber 2014, after DCM
Marathon attempts - DCM 2012 3:31, Portumna 2012 3:29, Paris 2014 3:20, DCM 2014 3:18

Paris was targeting 3:05ish and blew up from mile 17 onwards, was horrific. Walked for ages, put the marathon fears in me.

I think my times above show I have the speed?? although haven't run fast this year yet. Purely haven't entered the races but will target some.

I think my issue had been low mileage, rarely ever done a 40mile week, if I did half of it was prob a 20mile run.

Pre Paris, I was running all my runs at marathon pace or quicker so my LSR's were too fast apparently.
I was able to clock a 20miler at 7mins 05 per mile and going up and around Howth Hill,
Paris was hot as well, but yeah think low mileage killed me.

So this year I've been running steady and consistently, prob in best shape physique wise.
Ran the wings for life 20mile and some HM distance runs every second week,

I'm missing DCM this year due to wedding and same happened last year but I got into the New York Marathon thru lottery so chuffed with that.

I'm sure someone's ran it here and probably not a sub 3hr target course but thinking I might at least train for that to be target. I think maybe try the up to 55 P&D plan, or I have the Jack Daniels running book so maybe something in there.
I'm running 3/4 times a week which is more than ever before. All running has been easy ish miles. Where before I used to always run hard. Might need to re introduce some of these tempos.
I'm 100% commited to sticking to a plan this time. Quieter summer than previous years, (no weddings or festivals!)

Worst case deffo think capable of sub 3:10 at least.



All suggestions welcome!

Thanks!

Ian

Hi Iain. I think you can potentially target a sub 3. NY is a tough course so you're going to need strenght and endurance.
You hit the nail on the head with the mileage. You need more long runs, and you wont be strong enough for these on the mileage youre on.
A schedule like the P and D one is good. You'd need to be running 5 times a week at least.
Youre 40 miles a week allowed you to run 20miles at a fast clip (Howth).
Would be interested to know how the other marathons fared. Were the other times down to fades as Paris?

rooneyjm

Ian, if your going for a sub 3 in NY get right up the front. I started in 1B (the 2nd group) thinking id be with the serious runners only to be walking after 400m due to people taking selfies. The first bridge is a right good climb and makes the rest of the profile look reasonably flat but the bridges really suck it out of the legs. There is also a nice drag at mile 23, just when you don't need it. There are some pacers on the day but im not sure how official they are, definitely sub 3 and 3.15 (he passed me). Great race overall.

conavitzky

Hi folks, very interesting and informative thread. A breath of fresh air. I managed to break the three hours in Dublin last year at the first hurdle and will give an insight into what training i did. The first thing I think that stood to me was i was never in a rush to do the marathon. I didnt want to do one until i had sustained injury free mileage built up over a long period. I managed to stay injury free from June 14 up until the marathom in October 16.
I averaged 70-80k per week for a year with two sessions and a long run every week. We then upped the mileage and long run to run the national half in August. Lots of 8-10k tempos, 100m strides and long runs at a fair clip. It wasnt until after the half that we decided to run the marathon. Mileage peaked at approx 120k per week for approximately 6 weeks with long runs ranging between 32-37k. These long runs were at a pace that would fly in the face of all advice i have seen. They started off conservatively (first 5-6k), the middle miles were at marathon pace whilst the last 10-15 k progressed from marathon pace to half pace to 10k pace (crazy sh*t tbh). The three 23 milers I done ended up being at my marathon average pace. We also managed to fit in a midweek mlr peaking at 24k which was also around marathon pace or slightly slower and a 10-12k tempo on a Friday. We raced a 10k in training on the Sunday before the race (one of the lads pb'd!) Our coach said it was to deplete carb stores before cutting out carbs for three days. We then reintroduced carbs on the wednesday evening.
I remember 5k into the race saying to one of the lads that i felt like crap. We went out at a crazy pace passing halfway in 1:25. Passed 20 miles at 2:10 and started to suffer then. Finished in 2.54.32. Looking back now i was seriously overcooked on race day. Although we often say was that was the reason we broke the 3 because of the intensity of the training, that we were battle hardened. Could we have gone faster with more conservative sustainable training? I dont know. It resulted in 4 first time marathoners breaking 3 with times ranging from 2:52 to 2:58.
I am by no means recommending what we did, but it got the end result.I know we were all on the edge of being injured / overtrained. Hoping to run again this year. Will tweak the coaches plan to suit myself this year. The one drawback to training in a group was that sessions often ended up as races. I will also try and avoid that this year. Anyway enough rambling.

davedanon

conavitzky wrote: »

Hi folks, very interesting and informative thread. A breath of fresh air. I managed to break the three hours in Dublin last year at the first hurdle and will give an insight into what training i did. The first thing I think that stood to me was i was never in a rush to do the marathon. I didnt want to do one until i had sustained injury free mileage built up over a long period. I managed to stay injury free from June 14 up until the marathom in October 16.
I averaged 70-80k per week for a year with two sessions and a long run every week. We then upped the mileage and long run to run the national half in August. Lots of 8-10k tempos, 100m strides and long runs at a fair clip. It wasnt until after the half that we decided to run the marathon. Mileage peaked at approx 120k per week for approximately 6 weeks with long runs ranging between 32-37k. These long runs were at a pace that would fly in the face of all advice i have seen. They started off conservatively (first 5-6k), the middle miles were at marathon pace whilst the last 10-15 k progressed from marathon pace to half pace to 10k pace (crazy sh*t tbh). The three 23 milers I done ended up being at my marathon average pace. We also managed to fit in a midweek mlr peaking at 24k which was also around marathon pace or slightly slower and a 10-12k tempo on a Friday. We raced a 10k in training on the Sunday before the race (one of the lads pb'd!) Our coach said it was to deplete carb stores before cutting out carbs for three days. We then reintroduced carbs on the wednesday evening.
I remember 5k into the race saying to one of the lads that i felt like crap. We went out at a crazy pace passing halfway in 1:25. Passed 20 miles at 2:10 and started to suffer then. Finished in 2.54.32. Looking back now i was seriously overcooked on race day. Although we often say was that was the reason we broke the 3 because of the intensity of the training, that we were battle hardened. Could we have gone faster with more conservative sustainable training? I dont know. It resulted in 4 first time marathoners breaking 3 with times ranging from 2:52 to 2:58.
I am by no means recommending what we did, but it got the end result.I know we were all on the edge of being injured / overtrained. Hoping to run again this year. Will tweak the coaches plan to suit myself this year. The one drawback to training in a group was that sessions often ended up as races. I will also try and avoid that this year. Anyway enough rambling.

Nice going. But I am going to give the standard sourpuss senior boardsie reply (not meaning that I'm one) and say: Imagine what time you might have done if you had trained properly!

ThebitterLemon

davedanon wrote: »

Nice going. But I am going to give the standard sourpuss senior boardsie reply (not meaning that I'm one) and say: Imagine what time you might have done if you had trained properly!

Davedanon beat me too it, have to agree, and I know if I attempted that type of training I wouldn't have made the start line. Great feckin time though

TbL

ger664

davedanon wrote: »

Nice going. But I am going to give the standard sourpuss senior boardsie reply (not meaning that I'm one) and say: Imagine what time you might have done if you had trained properly!

Maybe it is the proper training.

davedanon

ger664 wrote: »

Maybe it is the proper training.

No. No it's not.

ger664

davedanon wrote: »

No. No it's not.

Depends on the runner. I agree very few people generically could handle that load, but if you can handle it, and recover in time for the next session I dont see an issue with it. Again OP had a coach keeping an eye on things and the race prep for the marathon was short as in 6 weeks including the taper if you could call it a taper.

davedanon

ger664 wrote: »

Depends on the runner. I agree very few people generically could handle that load, but if you can handle it, and recover in time for the next session I dont see an issue with it. Again OP had a coach keeping an eye on things and the race prep for the marathon was short as in 6 weeks including the taper if you could call it a taper.

I wasn't being serious at all initially, but regardless of what a given runner can tolerate, a flat-out 10k ONE WEEK before a marathon is nuts. I personally would not do it, not if 20 top-class coaches told me it was the right approach.

ger664

davedanon wrote: »

I wasn't being serious at all initially, but regardless of what a given runner can tolerate, a flat-out 10k ONE WEEK before a marathon is nuts. I personally would not do it, not if 20 top-class coaches told me it was the right approach.

Agree I would draw the line at that as it leaves you too open to injury. P&D has a 3 * 1600 @ 5K 8 or 9 days out which would most likely achieve the same result.

overpronator

ger664 wrote: »

Depends on the runner. I agree very few people generically could handle that load, but if you can handle it, and recover in time for the next session I dont see an issue with it. Again OP had a coach keeping an eye on things and the race prep for the marathon was short as in 6 weeks including the taper if you could call it a taper.

Yeah, aside from the long runs being too fast (according to standard dogma) the training wasnt that ludicrous. Tempo runs, sensibly incresed mileage, regular strides and tune up races are all core components, although for me racing a 10k the week before isnt something id try! Half of your long runs need to be sessions anyway with marathon paced miles included. Moreover some would say that to break say 2.50 for the first time that tempo portions in long runs are worth considering so there is scope for it. I certainly wouldnt blanket disregard the information anyway, theres stuff that can be learned from every honestly trained marathon block imo.

rooneyjm

Even if the last few weeks where unconventional, what let him do it was a year of 70-80k per week. That's serious consistency.

davedanon

ger664 wrote: »

Agree I would draw the line at that as it leaves you too open to injury.

Nothing to do with injury, in my view. Just simply too much effort too proximal to another massive effort a week later.

I'm just going to take this excerpt:

"They started off conservatively (first 5-6k), the middle miles were at marathon pace whilst the last 10-15 k progressed from marathon pace to half pace to 10k pace (crazy sh*t tbh). The three 23 milers I done ended up being at my marathon average pace. We also managed to fit in a midweek mlr peaking at 24k which was also around marathon pace or slightly slower and a 10-12k tempo on a Friday. We raced a 10k in training on the Sunday before the race (one of the lads pb'd!) Our coach said it was to deplete carb stores before cutting out carbs for three days. We then reintroduced carbs on the wednesday evening."

The last bit first, because it's to do with the raced 10k. I reckon that this carb-loading technique is a bit old-hat. I'm pretty sure P&D AM discusses it and concludes that it's a bit OTT. Next, the long runs. These are fine. Maybe a bit intense, but if the runners feel strong enough to progress past MP as far as 10k pace, that's their call, arguably. Was it done every week, or were there easy long runs done alternately? That's what P&D for instance would recommend. I assume the midweek mlr and the tempo are the two sessions he speaks of. Next, the three 23 milers. Done at MP? That's a no-no, surely. If your training paces match your race pace, then something's wrong. If you can run sub-6.40 for 23 miles in training, then your marathon should be quicker again. Then he says "I was seriously overcooked" on marathon day. If he trains properly, he goes sub-2.50, no question. It's unusual, too, to have four marathon debutantes all going big sub-3 in the same race. Obviously none of them had a clue they might not have been following the optimum programme.

davedanon

rooneyjm wrote: »

Even if the last few weeks where unconventional, what let him do it was a year of 70-80k per week. That's serious consistency.

Yes, true. But many do this all year-round. 70-80k would be low enough mileage for a lot of sub-3 runners.

Itziger

Personally, I'd be much more concerned at the three 23 milers @ MP than the 'hard' 10k. I find I recover really quickly from a 10k, even a PB one. I recall Charlie Spedding doing a 10k race very close to the Olympic marathon in 1984. Admittedly a different level to us but still...

But the three 23 milers @ MP. That's just crazy. I've never seen more than 15 miles at MP in a plan. Anyone come across more, say 20 @ MP????