The Sub 3 Support Thread

Clearlier

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Fair comment in my case but what if someone gets genuinely sick (as opposed to my head melt downs) on the day Ray?

TbL

I would suggest that they probably shouldn't even start the marathon in that case.

ThebitterLemon

Clearlier wrote: »

I would suggest that they probably shouldn't even start the marathon in that case.

That's my point, San Seb doesn't give you another option at another crack at sub 3 for months!

TbL

PaulieYifter

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

That's my point, San Seb doesn't give you another option at another crack at sub 3 for months!

TbL

Dubai or the Canaries in Jan

Clearlier

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

That's my point, San Seb doesn't give you another option at another crack at sub 3 for months!

TbL

Should have read the whole exchange! I'd go for Seville after that one which is about 2 months later. I'm sceptical about having a marathon in reserve though if you're going for peak performance.

ThebitterLemon

Clearlier wrote: »

Should have read the whole exchange! I'd go for Seville after that one which is about 2 months later. I'm sceptical about having a marathon in reserve though if you're going for peak performance.

I've tried that last year (but I mightn't be the best example as RC has pointed out) and it didn't work out.

Trying to hold your form for two months (including the Xmas) is harder to do than you might think.

TbL

Itziger

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Can be savage hot and windy, although that's where I did my PB

TbL

Windy, rare enough. Hot, relatively, yes. Was about 20/21 when I did it. It would be rare for it to be higher than that at that time of year.

(I lived there for 9 years)

dublin runner

Honestly, Dublin is a slow course. A great race in so many ways but the course stinks.

At 3hr level I reckon Rotterdam is roughly 4 minutes faster. Obviously that's a rubbish estimation but you get my line of thinking! Rotterdam is the easiest and best marathon to get to abroad in my opinion.

I reckon I would be would be 5 minutes slower on the DCM course. For whatever reason it does not suit me.

ThebitterLemon

Itziger wrote: »

Windy, rare enough. Hot, relatively, yes. Was about 20/21 when I did it. It would be rare for it to be higher than that at that time of year.

(I lived there for 9 years)

I've done the marathon there 3 times and never got "cool" conditions, I think 20/21 in November is pretty hot for a pasty Paddy as you'll have done a lot of you're recent training in cold and wet conditions but it is a very flat and fast marathon

TbL

dublin runner

The only reason for a fall back is if you cannot make the line. If it's an epic fail (been there, bought the tshirt and shorts!), so be it. Lock and reload 6 months later. No get out of jail cards, just running. No fall back race, just running. Die with your runners on.

You learn more from sh1te races than the good ones.

Bahanaman

Frankfurt is a great marathon for a sub 3 attempt. The same day as Dublin. Super flat course. With a decent training cycle a pb/sub 3 could be well in range. Got my own there last year (even went below 2:55). Easy to get to and loads of cheap hotel options very close to the start finish area. Also there's beer at the finish for immediate celebrations/drowning of sorrows! I'll say it again beer at the finish!

ThebitterLemon

Bahanaman wrote: »

Frankfurt is a great marathon for a sub 3 attempt. The same day as Dublin. Super flat course. With a decent training cycle a pb/sub 3 could be well in range. Got my own there last year (even went below 2:55). Easy to get to and loads of cheap hotel options very close to the start finish area. Also there's beer at the finish for immediate celebrations/drowning of sorrows! I'll say it again beer at the finish!

Might do Waterford, hear its easy to go sub 3 there

TbL

demfad

dublin runner wrote: »

The only reason for a fall back is if you cannot make the line. If it's an epic fail (been there, bought the tshirt and shorts!), so be it. Lock and reload 6 months later. No get out of jail cards, just running. No fall back race, just running. Die with your runners on.

You learn more from sh1te races than the good ones.

Have to say that I disagree with that side of the argument especially with a sub 3 attempt. So much can go wrong with a marathon attempt including as much uncontrollables as controllables. A bad race may not necessarily be always or even most often the culprit. It makes sense to have a backup if the goal is that important. Why wait 6 months (including all the personal commitment that this entails) if you can use the fitness already there in another attempt in the near future.
Also, with a sub 3 attempt IMO endurance is most often the limiter. We can see how at least a couple of runners here really nailed the second marathon probably because endurance was helped by the extra training and often because of the endurance garnered from the first marathon race itself.
Each to their own but it could be worthwhile if an individual is in a position to do so.

RayCun

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Fair comment in my case but what if someone gets genuinely sick (as opposed to my head melt downs) on the day Ray?

TbL

They have to wait for spring. ..

RayCun

Trying to hold your form for two months (including the Xmas) is harder to do than you might think.

TbL[/quote]

Yeah, I don't think you can circle for that long, you'd need to step back and build again

Itziger

RayCun wrote: »

Trying to hold your form for two months (including the Xmas) is harder to do than you might think.

TbL

Yeah, I don't think you can circle for that long, you'd need to step back and build again[/QUOTE]

As folks are saying, to each their own, but I think two months is a bit too long. 3/4/5 weeks is doable.

My experience of going for a big one and doing multiples:

2014 = Frankfurt, flat, target marathon, sub 3 attempt = 3.13.xx
2015 = Karlsruhe, flat, non-target, no sub 3 attempt = 3.05.xx (Sept.20th)
2015 = NYC, not all flat!, target, sub 3 attempt = 3.04.xx (Nov 1st)
2015 = Pisa, flat, kinda target, sub 3 attempt = 3.03.xx (Dec 18th, or 19th...)

I'm not saying 2015 was ideal but it did beat 2014!!

Bahanaman

Ah I'm over that now TbL........ Honestly I am!

ThebitterLemon

So how's everyone getting on?

I'm still deciding on whether to do Eindhoven or Amsterdam in October or San Seb in late November. Ticking along nicely on the training front but haven't done any race time that would indicate sub 3 form. (1.29 HM a few weeks ago).

Leaning towards SS to give me enough time to go sub 3 but wary of having all eggs in one basket approach.

TbL

FBOT01

I am in recovery mode from relay at Belfast 24hr. Also still rehabbing my hips. All very easy for next few weeks then back into it for DCM 3:40 pacing gig. Would like to be in low 3hr shape so the pacing feels like a long run rather than putting myself under pressure. No plan for 3hr attempt til 2017 but would hope to give the FD a decent rattle in August and pick up a half somewhere in Sept.

Think I might go with 12 week P&D again for DCM and then look at changing thing up for a sub 3 attempt in Spring.

ThebitterLemon

FBOT01 wrote: »

I am in recovery mode from relay at Belfast 24hr. Also still rehabbing my hips. All very easy for next few weeks then back into it for DCM 3:40 pacing gig. Would like to be in low 3hr shape so the pacing feels like a long run rather than putting myself under pressure. No plan for 3hr attempt til 2017 but would hope to give the FD a decent rattle in August and pick up a half somewhere in Sept.

Think I might go with 12 week P&D again for DCM and then look at changing thing up for a sub 3 attempt in Spring.

I've been fishing for company but not even Bulmers is biting! Fancy a trip to SS AULDBOT?

I think I'll do the Charleville half as well

TbL

FBOT01

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

I've been fishing for company but not even Bulmers is biting! Fancy a trip to SS AULDBOT?

I think I'll do the Charleville half as well

TbL

Never say never, C. Charleville certainly looks like a real possibility and maybe we might revisit the SS option a little closer to the event

ploughon

So how's everyone getting on?

I'm still deciding on whether to do Eindhoven or Amsterdam in October or San Seb in late November. Ticking along nicely on the training front but haven't done any race time that would indicate sub 3 form. (1.29 HM a few weeks ago).




Hi Folks,

ticking along nicely here as well.

I've signed up for Amsterdam, looking at the European Athletics now on the TV, I think its the same stadium we start and finish in.
Using the P+D 55/70 plan and tomorrow is an 18 miler with 10 and MP...should be fun!!

Good luck everyone with your training...keep the dream alive!

sideswipe

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

So how's everyone getting on?

I'm still deciding on whether to do Eindhoven or Amsterdam in October or San Seb in late November. Ticking along nicely on the training front but haven't done any race time that would indicate sub 3 form. (1.29 HM a few weeks ago).

Leaning towards SS to give me enough time to go sub 3 but wary of having all eggs in one basket approach.

TbL

Hey TBL, how easy is it to get to San Seb from Ireland.

ThebitterLemon

sideswipe wrote: »

Hey TBL, how easy is it to get to San Seb from Ireland.

I booked it last year Sideswipe but pulled out.

It was fairly straightforward, booked flights with Iberia from Dublin to SS via Madrid. It's supposed to be fast and flat with cool weather, you interested

If PaulieYifter happens along he can give a low down as he's done it twice.

TbL

rooneyjm

FBOT01 wrote: »

I am in recovery mode from relay at Belfast 24hr. Also still rehabbing my hips. All very easy for next few weeks then back into it for DCM 3:40 pacing gig. Would like to be in low 3hr shape so the pacing feels like a long run rather than putting myself under pressure. No plan for 3hr attempt til 2017 but would hope to give the FD a decent rattle in August and pick up a half somewhere in Sept.

Think I might go with 12 week P&D again for DCM and then look at changing thing up for a sub 3 attempt in Spring.

I'd be interested in pacing a 4hr/4hr+ this year as im going to wait until next to have a go at a marathon pb. Was waiting for a post on the marathon pacers page but nothing came up. Who would I need to contact to express an interest or is too late.

CR 7

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

So how's everyone getting on?

I started 'marathon training' at the start of June, currently averaging 70mpw since then, and the last non running day was June 1st. Target marathon is Achill on 27th August, but I would be extremely surprised to get anywhere near 3 hours on that course, so 8 weeks later in Dublin is where I expect to go under 3.

After buying Advanced Marathoning and reading most of it, I just decided to not follow any plan this time around. I've just been sticking with the usual 2 club sessions a week, with some form of speedwork in each; usually one 5ish mile tempo and a 400/800 session. Most of the rest of the mileage is a hilly/mountain run about once every 2 weeks, and lots of easy-ish mid-length recovery runs. Long runs have been consistently over 15 miles, planning on 20 next weekend, and maybe one more 20 before the marathon. It's probably not what any coach would recommend, but it'll be my first marathon so I can use the excuse of not knowing any better.:pac:

I've been racing away through the training without tapering, and have been hitting all of the targets in the table(on a previous page). This morning I did a half with the intention of sticking at 1:30 pace, to test out using gels and carrying a hydration belt thing for the first time. After taking the last gel and still feeling comfortable enough to chat away(much to the annoyance of the runners around, I found out later:o), I pushed it on a small bit in the last couple of miles to finish in a bit under 1:28. I might have a proper go at another half before Achill if I have a chance, but I'm happy enough with the way the times are going that it's not completely necessary.

ThebitterLemon

CR 7 wrote: »

I started 'marathon training' at the start of June, currently averaging 70mpw since then, and the last non running day was June 1st. Target marathon is Achill on 27th August, but I would be extremely surprised to get anywhere near 3 hours on that course, so 8 weeks later in Dublin is where I expect to go under 3.

After buying Advanced Marathoning and reading most of it, I just decided to not follow any plan this time around. I've just been sticking with the usual 2 club sessions a week, with some form of speedwork in each; usually one 5ish mile tempo and a 400/800 session. Most of the rest of the mileage is a hilly/mountain run about once every 2 weeks, and lots of easy-ish mid-length recovery runs. Long runs have been consistently over 15 miles, planning on 20 next weekend, and maybe one more 20 before the marathon. It's probably not what any coach would recommend, but it'll be my first marathon so I can use the excuse of not knowing any better.:pac:

I've been racing away through the training without tapering, and have been hitting all of the targets in the table(on a previous page). This morning I did a half with the intention of sticking at 1:30 pace, to test out using gels and carrying a hydration belt thing for the first time. After taking the last gel and still feeling comfortable enough to chat away(much to the annoyance of the runners around, I found out later:o), I pushed it on a small bit in the last couple of miles to finish in a bit under 1:28. I might have a proper go at another half before Achill if I have a chance, but I'm happy enough with the way the times are going that it's not completely necessary.

Nice going on the HM but haven't you a football match tonight that you should be concentrating on

TbL

sideswipe

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

I booked it last year Sideswipe but pulled out.

It was fairly straightforward, booked flights with Iberia from Dublin to SS via Madrid. It's supposed to be fast and flat with cool weather, you interested

If PaulieYifter happens along he can give a low down as he's done it twice.



TbL

Cheers, sounds interesting- I've one eye on it alright. Trying to improve over the shorter distances but any progress has been V slow! Im hoping the later the marathon (was also considering Frankfurt) the more time to develope some decent speed before launching into any marathon specific stuff.

PaulieYifter

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

I booked it last year Sideswipe but pulled out.

It was fairly straightforward, booked flights with Iberia from Dublin to SS via Madrid. It's supposed to be fast and flat with cool weather, you interested

If PaulieYifter happens along he can give a low down as he's done it twice.

TbL

Flights are ok. Plenty of connections from either Madrid or Barcelona - although the two times I was there I had an early morning Monday start to make a connection in Barcelona having gone through Madrid on the way over. Would recommend the Astoria 7 hotel.

Fast race with pacers starting at 2:30 :eek: - as flat as the German and Dutch marathons - in 2015 weather was absolutely perfect (having said that it was horrendous on the Friday evening with high winds and rain); in 2013 if anything it was a bit nippy in drizzle but flat calm wind wise.

Super city, great food, scenic, very well run marathon, bit sparse crowd wise in the extremities of the course but noisy support in town. (Went to the Real Sociedad game the night before 1st time I was there to see Griezmann in action before anybody knew who he was )

Duanington

So how's everyone getting on?

Going well I think - averaging around 80ish miles per week at the moment, training has morphed into lots of easy runs ( 3 double days) with 2 sessions per week. Have had to get very creative to get everything done over the past 2 weeks ( early morning starts for a few sessions and that kind of thing). Have had a couple of 18 mile long runs now, one of those being a testing progression style run. I actually prefer those to the 20 mile+ slower runs though for some reason

An easier week ahead mileage wise with a ten mile race on Sunday - should give a good indication of how things are progressing

Berlin is my target marathon and it's starting to feel pretty close!

Itziger

Hmmmm, I'm in between a bit. Did a 'target' Half two weeks ago and was happy enough with it (1.22.38) Since then we've come to Spain for Summer hols, about a month, and the heat is screwing things up a bit. Did a 10k race yesterday and that wasn't too much fun but more importantly, I find it hard to envisage many 20 milers in these conditions. Minimum temps here in Valencia and environs are about 22/23. I'll try to keep things ticking over but I'd be looking at late October at the very least for marathon. San Seb or Valencia would be good in November but flights aren't great. I'll either go for a local one in late Oct. or Pisa in December again.