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The Sub 3 Support Thread
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Feic you Beepbeep...BeepBeep67 wrote: »Important factor here is also age, runner B I would suggest still has a greater capacity to improve.
I know it's true, but let a man dream. 0 -
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I'm afraid that my experience is somewhat irrelevant, as I'll race a half (realistically at closer to 90-95% than 100% - because I fear pain!) and can manage a long run the next day. I reckon for those that commit fully to a half marathon race during marathon training, there has to be a training cost, as recovery has to be taken into account. If you raced it flat out, it's unlikely you'll be able to consider any type of quality work for at least 4-5 days. For someone doing their first every half marathon, the cost will likely be greater. For someone who's fast-twitch, cost may be greater again. You get the picture.conavitzky wrote: »KC, would you be inclined to pull the half altogether (raced) in lieu of continued marathon focused training for fear of recovery issues? The answer will be relevant to me also as I find marathon training tough enough already without racing during it (save for the odd 10k race). What's your experiences on it?
There's definitely a place for a raced half marathon, either before you start full-on marathon training, or if you are an high mileage experienced marathoner who understands the costs and risks (I reserve the right to revise this statement come Monday!). The real problem with marathons is that you just don't know.... You don't have any data or indicators that will tell you how you're going to perform over the full distance and as runners (I reckon we're all to some extent control freaks), this irks us greatly. We need positive reinforcement. That's where I think marathon-paced runs are hugely beneficial and why I'd suggest doing one as part of a half marathon race. You get both the longer race experience (opportunity to take on water, experience the process of passing other runners who have gone out too hard, practice your pre-race nutrition (and race nutrition if applicable), etc. etc.). For someone who hasn't done a marathon before there are simple considerations like 'what happens if you need to pee'? In an 800m race (or a long run), you just hold it, or pull up at the nearest ditch. In a marathon, suddenly you've got a new quandary - you realize that timing taking on liquids before the race is important, otherwise you risk adding 30-90 seconds to your race time. Probably not a great example but these are the kinds of learning experiences you'll get from a longer race-type simulation.
On the subject of shorter distances, 10 miles isn't that much different to a half marathon, but for many of us, it'll be around the hour mark, and we can get away with stuff in a race of 60 minutes duration, that we can't in a 90 minute race experience, just because many of our training runs last for around the 60 minute mark - we're used to it. The shorter stuff definitely has training relevance (stimulation) but less specificity. Again, great motivators, but no less risky (how many times have we heard of runners who left their marathon at the finish line of a 10k race two weeks before their goal race?). Bear in mind, I am the greatest hypocrite and will likely do the opposite of all of the above.
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Krusty_Clown wrote: »I'm afraid that my experience is somewhat irrelevant, as I'll race a half (realistically at closer to 90-95% than 100% - because I fear pain!) and can manage a long run the next day. I reckon for those that commit fully to a half marathon race during marathon training, there has to be a training cost, as recovery has to be taken into account. If you raced it flat out, it's unlikely you'll be able to consider any type of quality work for at least 4-5 days. For someone doing their first every half marathon, the cost will likely be greater. For someone who's fast-twitch, cost may be greater again. You get the picture.
There's definitely a place for a raced half marathon, either before you start full-on marathon training, or if you are an high mileage experienced marathoner who understands the costs and risks (I reserve the right to revise this statement come Monday!). The real problem with marathons is that you just don't know.... You don't have any data or indicators that will tell you how you're going to perform over the full distance and as runners (I reckon we're all to some extent control freaks), this irks us greatly. We need positive reinforcement. That's where I think marathon-paced runs are hugely beneficial and why I'd suggest doing one as part of a half marathon race. You get both the longer race experience (opportunity to take on water, experience the process of passing other runners who have gone out too hard, practice your pre-race nutrition (and race nutrition if applicable), etc. etc.). For someone who hasn't done a marathon before there are simple considerations like 'what happens if you need to pee'? In an 800m race (or a long run), you just hold it, or pull up at the nearest ditch. In a marathon, suddenly you've got a new quandary - you realize that timing taking on liquids before the race is important, otherwise you risk adding 30-90 seconds to your race time. Probably not a great example but these are the kinds of learning experiences you'll get from a longer race-type simulation.
On the subject of shorter distances, 10 miles isn't that much different to a half marathon, but for many of us, it'll be around the hour mark, and we can get away with stuff in a race of 60 minutes duration, that we can't in a 90 minute race experience, just because many of our training runs last for around the 60 minute mark - we're used to it. The shorter stuff definitely has training relevance (stimulation) but less specificity. Again, great motivators, but no less risky (how many times have we heard of runners who left their marathon at the finish line of a 10k race two weeks before their goal race?). Bear in mind, I am the greatest hypocrite and will likely do the opposite of all of the above.
Great reply. This marathon lark would leave you with a tired body and a broken head. So many ways to skin a cat and all that..not enough days in the week to try everything that's recommend by all the experts out there. If only we had a 10 day week (4 day weekend of course).0 -
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Hi conavitzky,
First and foremost if you want to cut out junk food don't buy it !!
Easier said then done I know but what I mean is try not to buy stuff you know is no benefit to you.Try cut out processed food and make healthy meals that can last a few days so you wont have to get something convenient (processed usually). I had a terrible diet before i was running and lost most of it because of diet then lost more when I was running. I went from 102kg to 85kg in about 5 months. I am now 76kg's.
The hard part for me was my partner is naturally thin and she can eat what ever she likes. When shopping the stuff I try to avoid she will buy and its a real test after a long run
I cut out Irish breakfasts, took the skin off chicken, ate only brown carbs, porridge 6 days a week with honey, chia or grated apple and cinnamon. If I was hungry late at night id eat a tin of sardines/tuna, although processed are full of protein.
I think if you eat breakfast/ dinner after you runs you will top up used glycogen rather then eating, running then needing to eat again straight after.
Shortbread biscuits after a run are alright 0 -
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Put down a nice week nearly hit 60 miles.
Mon 6 @7:30
Tue 6X1k sub 5-30 pace 1 mile warm up/down
Wed 12.6 @7:20
Thur 7 @7:15
Friday 4 @ 5:50 and 5k :5:47 2 hours later.
Sunday 20 @7:15 felt good if a little dehydrated.
Wouldn't be able to do many of those weeks but the double tempos are my favourite,short and sweet. Only second time going over 16 miles for long run so happy with the legs. Looking forward to the marathon paced runs, dare I try for a 2:55 marathon?
I think the biggest threat to a good marathon for you is making the start line
the large amount of fast work & double tempo on Fridays 2 hrs apart are a recipe for disaster if you ask me.
I'd be doing more aerobic work (longer midweek runs) and also more MP stuff.
It'll make the 60m weeks bearable and repeatable.
that said - looks like you have bundles of ability and should be looking well under 2:550 -
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