the Gards messed with the wrong rich kid

sovtek

Seems the INIS have made a heck of a mess for Failte Ireland. I normally would not feel sorry for these guys...especially Colin Zwirko as he is the son of a prominent media person, Walt Zwirko, back in my home town.
I think its great though because it made the INIS look like the **** heads they are back home and it also highlited their hypocracy because they constantly lobby Congress to have Irish illegals back home treated differently than they treat people here.
Here's the article.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/free-holiday-offer-for-us-trio-denied-entry-1815687.html

gazzer

Whats the betting that one of our sunday papers will have a photo/story of the female immigration officer who refused them entry?

seamus

Hang on a sec here. The guys arrived in the country without the proper documentation. There's no argument here, nobody screwed up except these three guys themselves. This is open-and-shut.

Jesus Christ, we go on and on about Irish incompetence and immgration being lazy bastards, but then when they do their jobs correctly and exactly as they should be done, we criticise them?

If the same happened to an Irish person landing in New York without the correct documentation, do you think anyone in America or Ireland would give a ****, or would we all say, "You muppet"?

Darsad

Try getting into the states with no return ticket , however on the face of it it does seem like one official made all the decisions as apparantly in an interview one of these guys gave to Mat Cooper they asked to speak to a supervisor or senior manager but were never allowed to.

r3nu4l

Darsad wrote: »

Try getting into the states with no return ticket , however on the face of it it does seem like one official made all the decisions as apparantly in an interview one of these guys gave to Mat Cooper they asked to speak to a supervisor or senior manager but were never allowed to.

In fairness though, if you didn't have the correct documentation trying to get into the US and asked to speak to a Manager or Supervisor you'd get exactly the same stonewall treatment before being put back on your plane and told not to come back.

FTA69

Too right, as someone said above, if you didn't have water-tight documentation going into the USA you'd be f*cked out on your ear in two seconds. I can't see the big whinge about it, they obviously thought that because they're yanks there'd be no bother about getting in. What I found hilarious was the fact they were moaning that the customs officials wouldn't look at their bank accounts; "Look at me, I'm a rich yank, I can do whatever I want!".

Trio of eejits.

sovtek

Darsad wrote: »

Try getting into the states with no return ticket , however on the face of it it does seem like one official made all the decisions as apparantly in an interview one of these guys gave to Mat Cooper they asked to speak to a supervisor or senior manager but were never allowed to.

Of course it was one persons decision at immigration. I don't know a country where they dont state that its the decision the of the immigration official. Of course that makes a farce of immigration law just about anywhere but its the norm. Like I said...I don't feel sorry for these guys...I know that going through US immigration is worse, in a sense, as they make you jump through hoops...fingerprinting and all. The difference is that the US doesn't need Irish tourists as much as Ireland needs American tourists.
They should have also realized that you have to show that you can support yourself for the duration and need a return ticket. However she could have taken a few moments to just look at their bank accounts and could have used some common sense as these guys were obviously tourists and being honest.
I've seen a few posts with these articles in online newspapers back home and more than a few point out the fact that the Irish government constantly lobbies for Irish people to be treated differently in America than every one else.

suimhneas

would love to know what flippin hotel chain offered them a free holiday say thats fictional, free hotel room, food and drink? if there is such a hotel chain they are pure idiots.

sovtek

suimhneas wrote: »

would love to know what flippin hotel chain offered them a free holiday say thats fictional, free hotel room, food and drink? if there is such a hotel chain they are pure idiots.

Actually it was a wise move on their part as they know this has damaged Ireland's image in the States in a time when the economy needs all the stupid rich Americans it can get over here.

partyguinness

In fairness, she was just doing her job.

Can you imagine trying to get into the US or Australia without the proper info?:eek:

partyguinness

sovtek wrote: »

Actually it was a wise move on their part as they know this has damaged Ireland's image in the States in a time when the economy needs all the stupid rich Americans it can get over here.

I heard on the news it was D4 Hotels...

Praetorian Saighdiuir

It was D4 Hotels......................w**kers

sovtek

partyguinness wrote: »

In fairness, she was just doing her job.

Can you imagine trying to get into the US or Australia without the proper info?:eek:

I agree that it would be hit or miss with US immigration but at the end of the day they are supposed to allow people that are honestly on holiday. It's obvious they were and she could have bothered her hole to take them up on their offer to prove it.
I can tell you there is a marked difference to the way INIS used to treat people coming to ireland and now. Its like someone at the top told them to be complete pricks to all foreignors...and lets make them wait in long queues to get in by not ever staffing enough people at Dublin airport in the NON-EU queue.

Riskymove

and I suppose four Mexican teenagers showing up at the Texas Border with no details of an address they planned to visit or proof of having funds would have been treated completely compassionately and welcomingly?

Taxipete29

benwavner wrote: »

It was D4 Hotels......................w**kers

Why do you say that?? I thought it was a very nice gesture.

While I believe that a mess has been made of this situation and I think it could of been handled better the officer was only doing her job.

These are the only requirements made on US citizens travelling as tourists

REQUIREMENTS FOR U.S. CITIZENS TO ENTER IRELAND

TOURIST TRAVEL

* U.S. Passport must be valid 3 months beyond intended stay
* Tickets and Documents for return or onward travel
* No visa required for stay up to three months
* Vaccinations - None Required

http://traveldocs.com/ie/er.htm

Its not much to ask that tourists comply with our laws. As stated above, try getting into the states without the proper documentation. I also doubt you would get any offers of a free trip from any American companies.

I think the problem here is the obvious inconsistencies in the system. This officer is obviously very good at her job. Maybe if all immigration officers performed their duties in such a fashion we would have less illegals in this country.

seamus

sovtek wrote: »

The difference is that the US doesn't need Irish tourists as much as Ireland needs American tourists.

That's irrelevant. It's typically Irish to think, "Ah sure it's grand, we can let them through, we need the cash, to hell with the law".

However she could have taken a few moments to just look at their bank accounts and could have used some common sense as these guys were obviously tourists and being honest.

Or they could be taking the piss. She's not an IT forensic analyst. How is she to know that these guys haven't planned it and are showing her false documents/accounts? Arriving at immigration and responding "I don't know" to a simple question like, "Where are you staying?" should instantly raise alarms bells for any immigration officer in any country. The origin of the traveller is irrelevant.

This is typical American bull**** of yanks expecting to be treated differently to everyone else on account of them being yanks. If anything, history has shown us that the biggest danger to security is posed by travellers travelling from within the Unites States on United States documents, therefore we should be more stringent on US travellers

sovtek

Taxipete29 wrote: »

I think the problem here is the obvious inconsistencies in the system. This officer is obviously very good at her job. Maybe if all immigration officers performed their duties in such a fashion we would have less illegals in this country.

Actually she did a crap job because she didn't let in three people that were obviously on holiday and obviously going to spend cash here.
If you are indeed a taxi driver then that was three rich American kids you missed ripping off.

is_that_so

From my own past experiences with foreign law enforcement and immigration you are on your best behaviour because they will do what they see as appropriate even if you think you know better. In short you do nothing stupid, offer up no smart answers and remember that politeness is your best path. I also experienced that unpleasant US immigration although in my case was not as harsh as others.

What is clear in this case is a serious lack of organisation and planning. To me there are implied assumptions in their stupidity that could have been sorted out by bit of simple reading. I would hope that the lesson will be learnt by other similarly intellectually challenged "tourists".

I find it more embarrassing that any hotels would reward such half-witted actions but considering the great PR they can get out of it I am not surprised. It also highlights Irish hypocrisy about tourism; our image is sacred, we'll take any money we can get but our prices are whatever we can charge.

dvpower

sovtek wrote: »

I think its great though because it made the INIS look like the **** heads they are back home and it also highlited their hypocracy because they constantly lobby Congress to have Irish illegals back home treated differently than they treat people here.

Do the INIS lobby congress? Maybe the Irish Governemnt do.

It looks like the INIS did their job here.

The Indo wrote:

It is understood immigration control was unhappy the trio did not have bank statements to prove they could afford to travel, did not have return tickets, and did not have an accommodation address.

But the three lifelong friends, from Plano in Texas, have since waged a successful media campaign about their plight, arguing that Ireland was to be the first stop on a year-long trip but they never got the chance to prove it.

No money, no accomodation, no return ticket. The INIS probably suspected that these guys were going to work to support their holiday and quite rightly (from what I can see) sent them back.

This probably happens quite regulary without any media attention. Its only because these guys had the resources to launch a campaign that they are now getting VIP treatment.

dvpower

sovtek wrote: »

Actually she did a crap job because she didn't let in three people that were obviously on holiday and obviously going to spend cash here.

How was this obvious? The article said they 'did not have bank statements to prove they could afford to travel'.

sovtek

seamus wrote: »

That's irrelevant. It's typically Irish to think, "Ah sure it's grand, we can let them through, we need the cash, to hell with the law".

Actually it isn't law but immigration policy.

Or they could be taking the piss. She's not an IT forensic analyst. How is she to know that these guys haven't planned it and are showing her false documents/accounts? Arriving at immigration and responding "I don't know" to a simple question like, "Where are you staying?" should instantly raise alarms bells for any immigration officer in any country. The origin of the traveller is irrelevant.

They didn't know the address but told them who they were staying with. I've been detained by immigration elsewhere and here before and most countries will make an effort to verify your story even if you show up without proof.
At the end of the day her job is to keep people from entering the country that don't have a legitimate reason to. She didn't do that...she kept out people that should have been let in because she couldn't be bothered.

This is typical American bull**** of yanks expecting to be treated differently to everyone else on account of them being yanks.

Actually its now typically Irish to expect to be treat differently to everyone else when it comes to immigration going by the position of the Irish government in relation to illegals in America and going by opinion on this board.
I hear Irish people bitching all the time about immigrants and then turning around and talking about emigrating themselves...as if no one should be allowed to come here but you should be allowed to go to Australia, Canada or whever the hell you want to in the EU...but hey its ok if WE treat everyone like ****.

enda1

dvpower wrote: »

How was this obvious? The article said they 'did not have bank statements to prove they could afford to travel'.

What else were they gonna do? Seek asylum or go on the dole!?
Nothing is free in life so they'd have to spend money to survive even.

Taxipete29

sovtek wrote: »

Actually she did a crap job because she didn't let in three people that were obviously on holiday and obviously going to spend cash here.
If you are indeed a taxi driver then that was three rich American kids you missed ripping off.

How dare you personalise this and insinuate that I would rip anyone off. This shows the level of American arrogance that stems from your argument.

Why do Americans not feel they are subject to the same laws as everyone else.??

If I travelled to the USA under the same circumstances I would be refused entry with no apology to follow. There would be no debate over the rights and wrongs of the issue. It would be all about the fool who thought he could enter the states without the proper documentation

sovtek

dvpower wrote: »

How was this obvious? The article said they 'did not have bank statements to prove they could afford to travel'.

...and then they offered to show them their bank accounts as well they could have contacted the person they gave them the name of. It's usually done.

Mena

Reminds me of the "Ireland of the Un-welcomes" article in the Irish Times last year.

INIS at Dublin airport are a disaster at the best of times.

The Irish Times wrote:

The most humiliating experience came in the early 1990s, when she had just graduated from the Royal College of Surgeons and travelled to Paris for a weekend with her then-boyfriend before her internship at a Dublin hospital was due to start. Her visa was valid and by then she had been living in Ireland for years. "I arrived at the immigration desk, and this man was particularly harsh. He didn't believe me when I told him I'd just returned from holiday and that I was about to start work as a doctor. He was very threatening from the start.

I've heard similar stories many times, they're not one off incidents.

However, and this is important, they did ignore the clearly laid out rules that INIS have for tourists. What did they expect?

sovtek

Taxipete29 wrote: »

How dare you personalise this and insinuate that I would rip anyone off. This shows the level of American arrogance that stems from your argument.


Why do Americans not feel they are subject to the same laws as everyone else.??

I haven't seen anywhere that they said that they expected to be treated differently. My point was that she could have checked out their story.
I also made the point that it is more and more an Irish attitude.and the official stance of your government in regards to immigration, that you should be treated differently than anyone else.

If I travelled to the USA under the same circumstances I would be refused entry with no apology to follow. There would be no debate over the rights and wrongs of the issue. It would be all about the fool who thought he could enter the states without the proper documentation

I think that more than likely at US immigration they would have taken you aside and probably gave you a chance to prove your story. You also wouldnt have had to pay for a flight home because they would have denied you entry at Dublin Airport.

bmaxi

Osama Bin Laden is a multi-millionaire, so presumably if he arrives with a couple of his mates and his bank statements we should give him the red carpet treatment. I'm pretty sure Gordon Brown would be just delighted if friend Osama could slip over the border and into the U.K. anytime he pleased.
The officer did her job and should be complimented for it.
It is an irony if D4 hotels were to be the ones to offer these guys hospitality, they would find quite a few like minds in D4.

sovtek

Mena wrote: »

Reminds me of the "Ireland of the Un-welcomes" article in the Irish Times last year.

INIS at Dublin airport are a disaster at the best of times.



I've heard similar stories many times, they're not one off incidents.

However, and this is important, they did ignore the clearly laid out rules that INIS have for tourists. What did they expect?

I don't think they intentionally ignored anything, they were just three typical American kids that have probably never left Texas before and didn't have a clue that you are supposed to have that information on hand. I've said before that I dont feel sorry for them but the immigration official could have bothered to check out their story when they offered.
Yes INIS are awful at the best of times. They never have enough people for the non-eu queue and every time I go through now its at least 45 minutes and there is always a queue halfway through the terminal.
Then when you get through the queue they treat you like filth. Its completely different to when I first came over here. I used to think that Ireland was the best immigration I had ever experienced. They are now the worst...not that I'm putting up the US as a shining example either.

sovtek

bmaxi wrote: »

Osama Bin Laden is a multi-millionaire, so presumably if he arrives with a couple of his mates and his bank statements we should give him the red carpet treatment. I'm pretty sure Gordon Brown would be just delighted if friend Osama could slip over the border and into the U.K. anytime he pleased.

:rolleyes:

The officer did her job and should be complimented for it.

No she didn't. She refused three people that were legitimately trying to enter Ireland.

Taxipete29

sovtek wrote: »

I haven't seen anywhere that they said that they expected to be treated differently. My point was that she could have checked out their story.
I also made the point that it is more and more an Irish attitude.and the official stance of your government in regards to immigration, that you should be treated differently than anyone else.



I think that more than likely at US immigration they would have taken you aside and probably gave you a chance to prove your story. You also wouldnt have had to pay for a flight home because they would have denied you entry at Dublin Airport.

Not every passenger from ireland to the USA goes through immigration in Dublin. I flew Continental to Vegas last year going through Newark and didnt go through immigration here.

Its very simple, the guys didnt have the proof required to enter the country. How hard would it of been to check the requirements before arriving?? Then you print out your bank statement and have the address of your accomadation. If these were Brazillian or Chinese backpackers would you be so vociferous with your argument??

Dob74

I am glad these three a**holes where not left in. I dont think there would be much sympathy in the states for them.
The official should get credit for doing her job correctly.
Anyway they hadnt much money to spend here. They where going to sleep on someone's couch.
Three less bums in this country.