the Gards messed with the wrong rich kid

Trotter

Out of curiosity, I just logged into my internet banking and nowhere does it say my name.

So.. Whats to stop me getting my rich father's online banking details and heading to the states with a passport, spare jocks and a smile? .. Safely in the knowledge that I can log in and show them "my lovely bank balance that I intend to blow in New York".

For once, lets pat the Garda on the back and say, good stuff. They arrived without the documentation and given their performance since, I'm not exactly surprised that the shutters came down on the officer's 'Happy Welcome Face'.

If anyone really deep down thinks these lads have any kind of a case, ask yourself if Prince XYZ from Nigeria (He mails me from time to time to look for an account to drop a few bob) arrived with exactly the same documentation, including online access to an account full of money with no name on the online banking relating to himself...

Would we be sending immigration a box of roses as he boards the plane home in disgust?

You betcha.

Job well done by immigration.

Sand

The difference is that the US doesn't need Irish tourists as much as Ireland needs American tourists.

LOL! Sovtek, never knew you had it in you.

savga06

I wonder just how much media attention these arseholes would have received if they weren't loaded with daddy's money.

savga06

savga06 wrote: »

I wonder just how much media attention these arseholes would have received if they weren't loaded with daddy's money.

Well my first post friend, I was wondering something similar although not exactly the same.

I was wondering how big a story this would have been if they had originated in an African country.

Victor

sovtek wrote: »

Its like someone at the top told them to be complete pricks to all foreignors...and lets make them wait in long queues to get in by not ever staffing enough people at Dublin airport in the NON-EU queue.

No, no. Its a bottom up exercise where the staff are looking for lunch payments for not being in a garda station and are doing everything by the book.

SWL

sovtek wrote: »

I agree that it would be hit or miss with US immigration but at the end of the day they are supposed to allow people that are honestly on holiday. It's obvious they were and she could have bothered her hole to take them up on their offer to prove it.
I can tell you there is a marked difference to the way INIS used to treat people coming to ireland and now. Its like someone at the top told them to be complete pricks to all foreignors...and lets make them wait in long queues to get in by not ever staffing enough people at Dublin airport in the NON-EU queue.

So an immigration officer who is clearly busy stopping according to you everybody from entering Ireland is too waste more time running around spoon feeding three half wits to make sure their in another country is valid, I prefer if they better prepared before arriving in another country. The same situation would happen in my country they would have been sent packing. Of course you’re too busy and excited to paint Ireland as some insular racist fascist country (unlike US of course), where tolerance for all things different are manifested and reflected at immigration control. When the exact opposite is true. How many countries opened up their boarder to new accession countries, find out and come back to me.

Good to see your continued despise of a nation is alive and well, you know the one where you insist on living and applying for naturalization and yet you can't contain your delight because this may paint Ireland in a poor light in the US.

Having inexperienced US immigration officers over the years and particulately since 9/11, I would suggest you continued self imposed victimization stance on all things foreign in Ireland, Should be revised until you experience how rude, incompetent, and often utterly officious and lacking in any manners or level of autonomy on decisions relating to US immigration policy it’s the book or you go home. So your sensitivities about long queues are as usual full of double standards.

The officer did her Job and well done also the fact that they separated into three different lines aroused suspicion and I can image that some "rich
" rid used to basking in the reflected glory of his fathers occupation decided to give plenty of smart arsed lip, better of without them. I would also hazard a guess that Ireland reputation is still not as bad internationally as the US.

The hypocrisy shown by you is breath taking on this and other areas relating to Ireland immigration policy as a sovereign nation. Ireland is entitled to control its boarders as they see fit, how sheltered or uneducated were three "rich" kids not to investigate the immigration rules of a sovereign country.

Instead of helping to create a media storm their newscaster father should sit down his half wit son and educate him, rather then him and the other fools getting a free holiday.


The Guards picked the right rich kid; somebody had to educate him in the recognized international practice for sovereign countries to control its boarders, because for all his fathers money and fame it was clearly wasted, or another case of a dumb American.

fly_agaric

sovtek wrote: »

but hey its ok if WE treat everyone like ****.

They may have been refused entry but...they were not finger printed. Their details won't be held indefinitely in a database for the use of police forces & governments (and god knows who else!) all around the EU.

In fairness, all EU countries should really be doing both of the above to US citizens who enter the EU.

KINGVictor

Why all the antagonism towards Sovek...I think he has made up a valid point.

The immigration officer should have acted with a bit of common sense.I have watched numerous immigration programmes especially ones from Australia and the UK and most travellers are given every benefit of doubt before being turned back.She could have contacted the Hotel to confirm their story or even given them the opportunity to get their online bank statements before making a rash decision.

And please stop all this ...she did a great job crap....countless number of illegal immigrants still find their way into this country every year...it would have been more beneficial to seek out the illegals IMO..rather than 3 teenage Americans??? What did she think they wanted...asylum or hoping for the Irish government to legalise their stay after they overstayed their welcome???

The US immigration know where the thousands of illegal Irish live in their country and yet do not go and harrass them so that they can be seen to be doing their job.
If the immigration officer was not convinced ,she could have done some work and verify their story which incidentally later proved to be true instead of taking the lazy and over-zealous option....Shame!!!

procure11

Trotter wrote: »

Out of curiosity, I just logged into my internet banking and nowhere does it say my name.

So.. Whats to stop me getting my rich father's online banking details and heading to the states with a passport, spare jocks and a smile? .. Safely in the knowledge that I can log in and show them "my lovely bank balance that I intend to blow in New York".

For once, lets pat the Garda on the back and say, good stuff. They arrived without the documentation and given their performance since, I'm not exactly surprised that the shutters came down on the officer's 'Happy Welcome Face'.

If anyone really deep down thinks these lads have any kind of a case, ask yourself if Prince XYZ from Nigeria (He mails me from time to time to look for an account to drop a few bob) arrived with exactly the same documentation, including online access to an account full of money with no name on the online banking relating to himself...

Would we be sending immigration a box of roses as he boards the plane home in disgust?

You betcha.

Job well done by immigration.

While I agree with some of your assertions,I dont think there was any reason to bring the Nigerian epheumism into it.Because some Nigerians act in that way doesnt mean it is indicative of how the genrality of Nigerians are.Just because we might not have a voice in Ireland should not make us a soft target,especially from a MOD.

PaulieD

procure11 wrote: »

While I agree with some of your assertions,I dont think there was any reason to bring the Nigerian epheumism into it.Because some Nigerians act in that way doesnt mean it is indicative of how the genrality of Nigerians are.Just because we might not have a voice in Ireland should not make us a soft target,especially from a MOD.

How many illegal Nigerians in Ireland? How many asylum tourists?

How many illegal Americans in Ireland? How many asylum tourists?

Sometimes generalisations are true.

Oh, and to get back on topic, American tourist should be free to enter Ireland. We need them, its really that simple.

uaobrien

So many things I want to reply to but I'm not going to.

Sovtek, mate, one question, did they formally apply for a visa to enter Ireland? I'm guessing the answer is 'no' as we waive visas for you Yanks like you do for us Micks.

Ergo, as per stated on the wonderful I-94W form we all have to fill in when visiting your quaint colony:

WAIVER OF RIGHTS: I hereby waive any rights to review or appeal of an immigration officer's determination as to my admissibility, or to contest, other than on the basis of an application for asylum, any action in deportation proceedings.

In my opinion this is just quid pro quo. We're a sovereign nation, under no obligation to admit any non-national regardless of financial status or nationality. Entry to the State for foreign nationals is a privilege not a right, just as entry to any country.

The only mess up here is by the politicos shoving their tongues up the chocolate shoots of the rich kid and his friends to have them come back.

Just one last thing mate, we don't need US tourism as much as you'd like to think. Most Yanks visiting here spend hardly anything. So how about brushing the chip off your shoulder and go waive your flag somewhere else.

uaobrien

KINGVictor wrote: »

Babble about I learnt everything about immigration by watching TV shows ... illegals ... a**-kissing for not kicking Irish illegals out of US .. etc.

She did her job, and she did it correctly, she's an immigration officer not Miss Marple. She's under no obligation to let people into the country if she feels they have not completed the proper steps.

As for looking for illegals, ummm maybe if other officers had acted as she did, there'd be fewer to look for.

As for the US, in certain business sectors a large portion of the workforce is comprised of "illegal aliens". More businesses are employing them. There were 11.9 million illegals there in 2008, approx. 3% of the population. You watch these immigration shows on TV, try watching "Homeland Security USA". They still look for the illegals as they're attempting to enter the country.

I think that's why general opinion is anti-Sovtek and pro-Immigration Officer.

procure11

PaulieD wrote: »

How many illegal Nigerians in Ireland? How many asylum tourists?

How many illegal Americans in Ireland? How many asylum tourists?

Sometimes generalisations are true.

Oh, and to get back on topic, American tourist should be free to enter Ireland. We need them, its really that simple.

If I remember correctly..same guy that posted stuff about the Irish govt letting Nigerians come to Ireland ...while quoting a Nigerian newspaper.You clearly have issues with Nigerians so a discussion with you would be absolutely futile.

uaobrien

PaulieD wrote: »

How many illegal Nigerians in Ireland? How many asylum tourists?

So, why zone in on a particular ethnic group? Showing your prejudices? You're not a disgruntled Taxi driver are you? :P

PaulieD wrote: »

How many illegal Americans in Ireland?

I know of at least 6 US nationals living in Ireland illegally and a few more who have married to bypass their illegal status.

PaulieD wrote: »

American tourist should be free to enter Ireland. We need them, its really that simple.

If this were the UK in 1940, and you were Churchill, then maybe so. But no, contrary to your belief we do not need them. Unless of course you are a taxi driver. :P

Harpie

If this was to happen the other way around there would be no 'apologetic feelings' from the US Government afterwards. The 3 little ****s came here, didn't follow the rules and were turfed out, the exact same would happen over there.

What wouldn't happen is the apology afterwards and the ridiculous goodwill gestures as seen in this case. I personally don't see how D4 hotels are benefiting from this, because the gesture is fooking ridiculous, and will annoy more people than it will impress. Splashing out for fare and board for 3 idiots will only rile most people IMO.

KINGVictor

uaobrien wrote: »

She did her job, and she did it correctly, she's an immigration officer not Miss Marple. She's under no obligation to let people into the country if she feels they have not completed the proper steps.

As for looking for illegals, ummm maybe if other officers had acted as she did, there'd be fewer to look for.

As for the US, in certain business sectors a large portion of the workforce is comprised of "illegal aliens". More businesses are employing them. There were 11.9 million illegals there in 2008, approx. 3% of the population. You watch these immigration shows on TV, try watching "Homeland Security USA". They still look for the illegals as they're attempting to enter the country.

I think that's why genral opinion is anti-Sovtek and pro-Immigration Officer.

First of...You wrongly qouted my post.
The fact that buisnesses are employing them is besides the point.The fact is there are Illegal Irish citizens living in the USA and as far as I am aware we are the only country advocating and pleading for them to to be given amnesty as a matter of Government policy.

All I was stating is that the Immigration officer should have acted with a bit of common sense and professionalism and in fact should have investigated the matter thoroughly considering that American Teenagers would not come here to seek asylum or overstay their welcome ..which is in essence her job.

Your postulations about how many illegal immigrants are living and working in America is irrelevant in this matter.
The fact is that three teenage tourists came to Ireland at the invitation of the D4 hotels and they expressed this to the Immigration office...it is her duty to confirm whether this was true or false which she didnt but rather decided to act in an arbitrary fashion...and like I said this later turned out to be true!!!!

The irony is that her employer is bankrupt,urgently seeking foreign investments and most importantly negotiating on behalf of her fellow citizens to stay in the US....farcical.

Ronan|Raven

PaulieD wrote: »

How many illegal Nigerians in Ireland? How many asylum tourists?

How many illegal Americans in Ireland? How many asylum tourists?

Sometimes generalisations are true.

Oh, and to get back on topic, American tourist should be free to enter Ireland. We need them, its really that simple.

Not as simple as your point of view?

If I or anyone turned up in American immigration control in the manner and lack of information these lads provided I would have been sent packing on the next flight. Having been through the USA numerous times the grilling I and others got was correct and the grilling these lads got was also correct. Ara sure they are IRISH/AMERICAN sure come on in lets ignore the laws set down. New Zealand immigration I wish they were as lax as ours from some peoples reports. Rules are there for a reason. I do not give two flying ****s if these lads were the richest people in the Galaxy if you have no done your immigration procedure properly then tought ****. I was party to nearly refused entry for similar reasons and I was at fault. I wish I could have rich daddy to come bleet for my stupidity.

johnnyskeleton

seamus wrote: »

Hang on a sec here. The guys arrived in the country without the proper documentation. There's no argument here, nobody screwed up except these three guys themselves. This is open-and-shut.

Well no, US citizens are entitled to visit Ireland without a visa and there are no stipulations about providing proof that you can support yourself or that you require an exit flight. Instead, the INIS rely on the right to refuse people if they "doubt their bona fides" in their stated reason for entry. It would be different if there was an entry requirement to have a return flight or proof of funds but there isn't. Nor is there such for an Irish citizen going to the US. If I were going to the US with a plan to travel up to Mexico and down through South America by land I would have done the exact same thing that these blokes did and expect them to deal with me in a reasonable manner.

I have dealt with Irish immigration authorities on a number of occaions in a number of different capacities, and I have also dealt with the immigration authorities of a number of countries. IMO the Irish immigration authorities are a species unto themselves and will take any opportunity to talk down to non eu citizens.

Irish_Nomad

KINGVictor wrote: »

The fact is that three teenage tourists came to Ireland at the invitation of the D4 hotels and they expressed this to the Immigration office

I think you have misunderstood the situation. The invitation from D4 Hotels came after they returned to the US.

johnnyskeleton

sovtek wrote: »

I can tell you there is a marked difference to the way INIS used to treat people coming to ireland and now. Its like someone at the top told them to be complete pricks to all foreignors...and lets make them wait in long queues to get in by not ever staffing enough people at Dublin airport in the NON-EU queue.

+1. In the last ten years Irish immigration authorities have gone from the "you're more than welcome, but why the hell do you want to come to Ireland anyways?" attitude to the "look at all these foreign devils wanting to come into our country" attitude. Ireland has transformed and our immigration authorities are still acting on the misapprehension that we are one of the richest countries in the world and everyone wants to come here and take our jobs and women.

benj

that imigration officer should be put in a cell...she must think she runs
the country...

Dob74

sovtek wrote: »

Umm I can tell you they are rich kids plus the one said he had $10,000 in his bank account.
Again...she didn't do her job

If there is one thing to like about america its that they have good laws and they follow them to the letter. So these three guys should have had the correct documentation. Even for well off america's this country is extermely expensive.
They siad to the paper they had access to 10k but they didnt so it to the official.

johnnyskeleton

bmaxi wrote: »

Osama Bin Laden is a multi-millionaire, so presumably if he arrives with a couple of his mates and his bank statements we should give him the red carpet treatment. I'm pretty sure Gordon Brown would be just delighted if friend Osama could slip over the border and into the U.K. anytime he pleased.

We'd let his brother in law in anyway:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/osamas-inlaw-got-irish-passport-in-1990-329138.html

asdasd

The fact that buisnesses are employing them is besides the point.The fact is there are Illegal Irish citizens living in the USA and as far as I am aware we are the only country advocating and pleading for them to to be *given amnesty as a matter of Government policy

The Mexican government does the same. I think that all government with illegals in the US have made representation. There are plenty of groups within the US arguing for an amnesty - I am pretty sure that was a plank in Obama's campaign, for instance.

The Irish in the US are a statistical nothing. They are as close to 0% as makes no difference. However, any amnesty would be for all illegals, and the US cannot deport about 11 million people.

As for the Irish government, I have no idea why any Irish government makes these representations. The people over there cant vote. Their relatives over here may not even vote on the issue. The rest of us dont care. If they are breaking the law, send them home. And it removes one of the stupider arguments of the Open borders fanatics.

that immigration officer should be put in a cell...she must think she runs
the country...

She is in complete control of whom she lets enter this country. As with the INS in the US. There you can be refused entry with a correct visa, because they dont like the look of you.

Why are we still talking about this? Can anyone get statistics for people turned away from EU, or American ports of entry on that day, and since?

I ahve never seen such a manufactured news story.

asdasd

If I were going to the US with a plan to travel up to Mexico and down through South America by land I would have done the exact same thing that these blokes did and expect them to deal with me in a reasonable manner.

You would not get in the door. Entering the US without a return ticket is absolutely impossible. You would be lucky to not end up in Cuba.

Ireland has transformed and our immigration authorities are still acting on the misapprehension that we are one of the richest countries in the world and everyone wants to come here and take our jobs and women.

She was doing her job. Some spoilt rich kids from Texas had no proof or residence, no obvious funds ( she was not going to an ATM), and no return tickets.

The sneer about Ireland is typical Sleeveenism ( we remain one of the richest countries in the world) but even if we weren't we are at an entry to the EU.

We should've locked them up in MountJoy for a few days to replicate the US system.

dingding

Another point is that the official was not protecting the Irish Border, she was protecting the UK border also as we have a common arrangement with them. If the were refused permission to enter the EU Shenken countries, they would have been sent back to Ireland also.

I traveled to the US alot and there is no way you would get into the states by just turning up and no details of where you were staying etc.. The fact that the 3 people split into different queues arroused suspission also.

I'd say there is more to this story that meets the eye.

We need to support the Gardai who are working on our behalf protecting the country.

Going to an ATM would not have proved anything as it would not give a balance and only let them take out 400 Euros.

johnnyskeleton

asdasd wrote: »

You would not get in the door. Grow up. Entering the US without a return ticket is absolutelyh impossible. You would be lucky to not end up in Cuba.

A quick look at the US website's information page on the visa waiver programme suggests that while you may be asked for a return ticket, it is not mandatory:

http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/without/without_1990.html#requirements

Lots of people travel by land across the US into canada, mexico or by sea to the carribean. Others don't have a fixed plan of when they will fly out or where they will fly out. So unless you have something concrete to back it up with, I don't accept your assertion that it is absolutely impossible to get into the US without a return ticket. I have travelled through many countries by land with no onward flights booked and it hasn't been a problem, sometimes in countries far stricter than the US.

I would respectfully suggest that you don't tell other posters to grow up, especially when you know nothing about them.

asdasd wrote: »

She was doing her job. Some spoilt rich kids from Texas had no proof or residence, no obvious funds ( she was not going to an ATM), and no return tickets.

That's the crux of it - she didn't see three tourists she saw three spoilt american tourists.

asdasd wrote: »

The sneer about Ireland is typical Sleeveenism ( we remain one of the richest countries in the world) but even if we weren't we are at an entry to the EU.

Firstly, we were never one of the richest countries in the world in absolute terms and secondly in relative terms our GDP per capita was greatly skewed by the high level of FDI in Ireland and the large external private debts accumulated during that period. Ireland being one of the richest countries in the world was a charade.

asdasd wrote: »

We should've locked them up in MountJoy for a few days to replicate the US system.

That would not be in any way proportionate or necessary, and as far as I know the US would not have done this but would have simply repatriated the persons.

asdasd

That's the crux of it - she didn't see three tourists she saw three spoilt american tourists.

She saw people without proper entry requirements. Do you think they would have got in were they Chinese, Nigeria, Middle Eastern or other non-EU?

asdasd

I have travelled through many countries by land with no onward flights booked and it hasn't been a problem, sometimes in countries far stricter than the US.

good for you. I have travelled to the US about ten times. In no case would I have entertained the idea of not having a return ticket, because that would have meant instant deportation whether that is mentioned in the offical docments, or not.

Immigration officers have to be seen to be doing their job. There may not be anything so bllunt as a table of refusals per employee, I am pretty sure that a Immigration Officer who never stops anyone would be suspect.

And not having a return ticket is a very obvious flag.

EDIT: Here is a question about Canadians getting into the US without a return ticket. Not possible there either.

Trotter

procure11 wrote: »

While I agree with some of your assertions,I dont think there was any reason to bring the Nigerian epheumism into it.Because some Nigerians act in that way doesnt mean it is indicative of how the genrality of Nigerians are.Just because we might not have a voice in Ireland should not make us a soft target,especially from a MOD.

I made no generalisations about Nigerians. In fact if you want to go down that road, I have some very close Nigerian friends who cringe when they too receive similar emails to the specific one I mentioned. I am very aware that there are very many Nigerian workers and families legitimately working and living in Ireland. I've worked with some of them. If my comments came across as me having a prejudice against all Nigerians, then you have my apologies because thats not true.

The fact remains that if I had answered the emails that ask for bank detials ,and given my bank details, then the person who looked for them (who said they were from Nigeria) would and should be stopped in Dublin airport if they attempted entry.

My point is , and you'd agree I'm sure, that it is not fair to stop a person from Nigeria, Australia, Morocco, Canada.. wherever.. and treat them harshly based on pre conceived opinions if they havent got the proper documentation.. but let Americans through because they surely wouldnt be looking for anything other than a few weeks holiday.

The rules should apply to everyone equally, and this is what happened in this case.