Listen to Joe Duffy today(10/7/09)

WellyJ · 11-07-2009 10:02am

Ivan wrote: »

Give someone a better computer game to the one they are playing and they demonstrate how unaddictive games are. Give a drug addict something other than their drug of choice and watch what happens

Surely it's more fair to compare moving onto a new, more enjoyable game, to moving from smoking Silk Cut to Marlboro because you prefer the "taste". At the same time, continuing your addiction?

Taking away cigarettes altogether is what would cause a problem, but again, this is a physical addiction so it's worse.

You are probably right in that when I say I am addicted to WOW, it is really because it is the best MMO available at the moment, in my opinion. If something better comes along I would probably drop it quite fast, but only because my "addiction" will continue to be fed by this new game.

You say again that it is really just very very enjoyable, and again I disagree, because like I said, there have been times where I have had total burnout from WOW, and found nothing enjoyable about it whatsoever, but still I would log in all the time, and even question myself while doing this. To me this makes it clear that I am addicted. I would still need a good counter-explanation to this to start to change my view.

Ronan|Raven · 11-07-2009 10:07am

I should point out I havent enjoyed wow and her sweaty armpits for nearly two months

I am sure come winter I shall start playing again.

Ivan · 11-07-2009 10:13am

WellyJ wrote: »

Surely it's more fair to compare moving onto a new, more enjoyable game, to moving from smoking Silk Cut to Marlboro because you prefer the "taste". At the same time, continuing your addiction?

But how do you explain moving from one genre to another? Surely this is similar to giving a smoker, some beer instead and saying "here, drink that, it'll take the edge off

" You'd get a punch in the face

WellyJ wrote: »

Taking away cigarettes altogether is what would cause a problem, but again, this is a physical addiction so it's worse.

You are probably right in that when I say I am addicted to WOW, it is really because it is the best MMO available at the moment, in my opinion. If something better comes along I would probably drop it quite fast, but only because my "addiction" will continue to be fed by this new game.

Boredom is a powerful motivator. But when was the last time you heard of somebody robbing an old woman to fund their wow subscription?
An addiction implies that you are reliant on the input from a particular source. In this case, the activity of playing World of Warcraft. To be truly addicted, you couldnt just change source so easily and even then, you would be addicted to the new activity but still addicted to the previous. Akin to a smoker becoming an alcoholic too. You wouldnt just stop smoking while drinking heavily.

WellyJ wrote: »

You say again that it is really just very very enjoyable, and again I disagree, because like I said, there have been times where I have had total burnout from WOW, and found nothing enjoyable about it whatsoever, but still I would log in all the time, and even question myself while doing this. To me this makes it clear that I am addicted. I would still need a good counter-explanation to this to start to change my view.

Again, probably a combination of boredom and laziness to look for something better/move onto something better. Plus WoW is updated quite regularly, so it's so easy to just "hang on until the next patch". Then there are the friends inherent in playing the game. Again, using the drug related comparison - Friends are a distraction or a means to an end to a drug addict. Whereas in a game/MMO they are often what keeps someone playing, long after the original reason for playing is gone.

WellyJ · 11-07-2009 10:24am

Ivan wrote: »

But how do you explain moving from one genre to another? Surely this is similar to giving a smoker, some beer instead and saying "here, drink that, it'll take the edge off " You'd get a punch in the face

Well that's just the thing, I also play other games, and enjoy them briefly, until I complete them or whatever, but I always come back to WOW. And most of the time I even have WOW logged in while playing these other games, they do not give me the same sense of satisfaction

Boredom is a powerful motivator. But when was the last time you heard of somebody robbing an old woman to fund their wow subscription?
An addiction implies that you are reliant on the input from a particular source. In this case, the activity of playing World of Warcraft. To be truly addicted, you couldnt just change source so easily and even then, you would be addicted to the new activity but still addicted to the previous. Akin to a smoker becoming an alcoholic too. You wouldnt just stop smoking while drinking heavily.

It is hard to justify a comparison here with drug addicts stealing money to fund their habit. If someone has enough money to have a computer and a broadband connection, it is only logical that they can probably afford to pay a WoW subscription. Again, drug addiction is also a strong physical addiction, that can cause people to do some pretty crazy **** to make sure they feed this addiction. I am not saying WoW is on par with this by any means. But it still is addictive. I have already admitted that the addiction is to MMO gaming, and probably not WoW itself so the "source" you mention is MMO gaming, not WoW, and therefore removing it totally from my lifestyle would make me yearn for it without doubt.

Again, probably a combination of boredom and laziness to look for something better/move onto something better. Plus WoW is updated quite regularly, so it's so easy to just "hang on until the next patch". Then there are the friends inherent in playing the game. But again, using the drug related comparison - Friends are a distraction or a means to an end to a drug addict. Whereas in a game/MMO they are often what keeps someone playing, long after the original reason for playing is gone.

This is a flawed comparison. The "Drug" is the MMO, the friends are people you enjoy the "Drug" with. Much like heroin addicts shooting up together in a laneway, or people going to the smoking area of a nightclub to have a smoke. Alcoholics sitting together in a bar.

The fact is though, what I've mentioned there are the "happier" times of the addiction. The stage I have written about previously where I will idle in WoW even when no friends are online, are akin to the alcoholic sitting alone on the park bench with the bottle of wine, or the heroin addict shooting up alone in the toilets of a train station.

TheDoc · 11-07-2009 10:53am

I'm used to hearing this sort of stuff now with airsoft all the time. Especially on Joe Duffy. It is clearly a show that just churns out outrageous claims and completely distorted facts : /

Matt Coopers research team have me as a contact for gaming,airsoft and few other things. They did a piece on Wrath of the lich king when it came out and was much more informative, factual and focused solely on the game and how its popularity. A show like Matt Cooper is usually more factual, yes less dramatic, but a show listened to by the educated populace.

Shows like joe Duffy and Adrian Kennedy, their listener base says it all really. My mother text me during work telling me to turn on the radio but I couldnt, but she felt compelled to ring in and tell off the woman on air, she couldnt get through.

My mothers take on it, aswell as probably 90% of the players, is that WoW is an addictive game yes, but it is down the individual as to how much time they put into it. I can easily drop wow for a few nights to spend time with my girlfriend, friends, work or airsoft. Parents are very quick to point the finger, with most irish people to be honest, at every other minor factor except themselves, or their own failings as parents.

WoW is a game that promotes social interaction, believe it or not. In my own personal situation my immediate group of friends are big into clubbing and doing drugs etc something I'm not into, I'm not even hefty into drinking. So WoW is something that I can sit down to and spend a night on. I've got friends from real life who play, and guys I just know online but who I get on with.

As me and Gj always say, if we didnt have people to chat to on wow, we wouldn't play it. I've been thrilled since moving to outland just for the banter,chat and social aspect, playing on the same server with a ridic amount of sound irish blokes.

It is a pity I missed the show or I would have been straight onto it, with similar defences to that of airsoft.

It is not the games fault, millions of people are able o play the game casualy or hardcore, and be able to balance play with a healthy lifestyle and social life, people who sit on their machine for 24 hours straight, thats their choice, and more power to them for having that dedication.

One of my mates is pretty addicted, spending large amounts of time levelling alts, instancing etc. I envy the fact he can stay up all night and play. I know him in personally and yeah he might have a slight addictive personality, but he is active, social and great craic.

Parents should be really looking at themselves and the enviroment in which their kids live before pointing fingers. My mother had the same attitude towards WoW maybe a year ago, and when she say that I was playing with my mates, and new people I was jsut chatting to, she was cool with it, she then was encouraging and supportive of it, when I told her I was opting not to go clubbing with my junkie mates and prefered to play WoW.

Its all down to individual situations, and I wouldnt be too suprised if some new budding TD or something came out with remarks against Wow, but it is not like we have anything to worry about, and I'd regularly brush these comments and radio shows aside.

sunzz · 11-07-2009 1:35pm

Listened to it there, I honestly don't see the need for the call.

SHE is the parent who is ALLOWING them to play the game in her own house...I mean get a grip, moaning about a gaming company as a direct result of her own inability to monitor her kids and how long they spend, Oh Christ lets just blame all our downfalls on someone else, that will make the world a better place. Not only that, she is moaning about the time spent on the game yet didn't even bother to look into the parental controls that Ronan and so many more have pointed out, yes good parenting.

I play Uni soccer, hit the gym 3 times a week, hold down a part time job and go out most weekends with my mates, I'm 23 and I play this game as much as anybody, it doesn't stop me holding conversations socially with anyone, it doesn't make me turn down other aspects of life in order to sit in org/iron talking to people, I don't neglect my work, study and or friends, I play it in my spare time when there is nothing else to do, like the majority of people.

It's not the game that's addictive it's peoples personalities, obviously her sons have addictive personalities if its not wow I can assure you it would be something else.
She needs to look closer at her own home life before she comes on air warning everyone else of this new epidemic

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 11-07-2009 1:46pm

When you log on to walk around dalaran, stormwind, ironforge for a few hours while chatting to some people, inspecting random people and the AH, you are addicted.

Ivan, you are wrong, you can also form a psychological dependence of something, addiction covers both physical and psychological "habit forming". You can get addicted to almost anything. There is a line between enjoyment and addiction. Ever play the game and not enjoyed it, but you cannot leave? You would be lying if you said you didn't.

World of Warcraft is HIGHLY addictive. Same with call of duty 4 and 5. If you knew anything about business you would know this, developers will make the game and add a level of "stickiness" to it. Why do you think there are sooo many achievements, rare pets/mounts, quests, professions and the likes? This adds to the level of addictiveness a game can be. While some games can be addicted, they have endings, WoW does not. No matter what you say, there is no real ending. Sure you can go and do every boss in ulduar 10/25 on hardmode, but there will always be patches, and they are timed just right as to keep people interested in the game.

Patches were origionally for bug fixes in computer games, now they are adding whole new content.

There was a time when I was pretty addicted to wow and BF2, when I was in college and a lot of free time on my hands. After 5 years, the game is somewhat boring, not as much of a challange for me etc etc. For me, right now, the game is not addictive.

An addictive personality helps, but when developers put in so much time and effort to make the game much more addictive, it doesn't help.

No matter what anyone says, this game IS addictive.

If you believe that games are made, and addictiveness is not thought of, then you are completely blind, especially when there is a subscription fee.

I would also add that I have a friend who plays wow. He would play for over 60 hours straight... he would come downstairs after a while and tell us how much gold he farmed, or whatever. Most of this time was just spent talking to people, about the game mostly. Something like elitestjerks. He didn't shower that often, didn't eat, (dinner would be a packet of chicken goujons), NEVER went out, only to the shop. Inside all day, ever single day... He started playing in TBC, within the year he had over 200 days played... That is completely insane, we couldn't understand it. Thankfully he has cut down a lot, he only logs on to post his 750 auctions on AH. He plays to get the cap in gold. Buys things off AH cheap, sells them for the right price. I think that is nuts.

Oh and if you were to leave your guild, or server, I am sure there are people you would miss... but would you really care? Honestly? I know I wouldn't, hence they are not real friends O.o Some people you would get very close to and maybe even visit, but they are never going to be your best mate, are they?

If your best mate is a level 80 night elf druid, who you meet in dalaran for a chin wag... then you gotta sort yourself out, seriously.

WellyJ · 11-07-2009 2:20pm

Keanu Curved Mace wrote: »

I would also add that I have a friend who plays wow. He would play for over 60 hours straight... he would come downstairs after a while and tell us how much gold he farmed, or whatever. Most of this time was just spent talking to people, about the game mostly. Something like elitestjerks. He didn't shower that often, didn't eat, (dinner would be a packet of chicken goujons), NEVER went out, only to the shop. Inside all day, ever single day... He started playing in TBC, within the year he had over 200 days played... That is completely insane, we couldn't understand it

That makes me feel better about my addiction

My life is a lot more "normal" despite my need for WoW time (and i shower regularly xD )

][cEMAN** · 11-07-2009 4:01pm

OMG I play wow....is it fatal? How long have I got doc?

Recent studies show that they contradict previous studies, but agree with the studies before that.

It's a ****ing game. Did you get addicted to 'tig' when you were a kid?

Most addictive entertainment being pumped to us constantly - football. In all forms of media. The majority are addicted, but i'm not. Does that mean I don't have an addictive personality? But I play wow? OMG....i'm confused. Who am I? What does my life mean? Jesus christ ****ting in a bucket how will I ever be me again.

You can't in all seriousness get into a conversation about addiction and fixate on video games. You have to cover all the bases, and not just skim over them and say "But that's completely different". No, it's not. You're generalising physical and psychological addictions.

I know people who've read a book and read it over and over again (in response to a previous poster). They're not autistic, they just like it. Are they addicted?

Now seriously, get off your ****ing high horses or go get your degree in psychology, do a study, then come back with the full results of your findings....then justify wasting that amount of time in your life on something as pointless as trying to prove a point ON AN INTERNET FORUM!

I'm away to go check out some hot Belf in Dalaran...

AaronFitz · 11-07-2009 5:37pm

If you still fell WoW is not addictive, wikipedia it and view how people have being so engrossed with it they let their own child die from neglect. Would you do this? More than likely not, has it happened? yes. was it a once off? I doubt it.

StinkyMunkey · 11-07-2009 5:51pm

For me there is a fine fine line between addiction and having a hobby.

An addiction, physical or mental to me means - that if you are addicted to something, it thats president in your life.

Example's of what i see as addiction.

* Alcoholics crave alcohol, and it dictates their lifestyle. An alcoholic always think s about where and when his next pint will arrive.

* Smoker's crave nicotine, and while it is a more passive addiction, the word "crave" is what make's it an addiction.

* Junkie's crave drug's, and this is an example of a more fair reaching addiction.

* Gamer's who are addicted to online gaming or otherwise, spend the time they are not playing a game, thinking about the game. And put play time before social life, family life, other interet's etc...!

And while i could continue giving example's about other addictions, which by the way could probably encompass every aspect of life from watching talk show's to jumping out of plane's. To me, the vast majority of people all have an interest or hobby in a wide variety of thing's, some being better enjoyed than other's. But really enjoying something and thinking about it, doe's not make it an addiction, it's like every thing "everyone" doe's in life - everything in moderation.

I myslef spend to much time with WoW and do think about it when im not playing it, but it's not the be all and end all of everything. I by nature have always leaned towards playing game's, be it an atari or present day online computer game. And have spent more time than i probably should have playing some sort of game. I would go as far to say i have a mild addiction to games of this nature. But saying that, ive always enjoyed a social life, work - well the people i work with, a family and other things in life.

11-07-2009 5:53pm

AaronFitz wrote: »

If you still fell WoW is not addictive, wikipedia it and view how people have being so engrossed with it they let their own child die from neglect. Would you do this? More than likely not, has it happened? yes. was it a once off? I doubt it.

Does it really come down to using wikipedia to try and prove a point. WoW is not addictive, I like many others can go weeks and sometimes motnhs without playing it and when I do play I'm not transformed into some mad man obsessed with completing every task. There are some people who become addicted, but they have an addictive personality and if it wasn't WoW it would be soemthing else. It's easy to blame a game, it lets parents and advocate groups use an easy scape goat to cover up for their failings.

][cEMAN** · 11-07-2009 6:41pm

AaronFitz wrote: »

If you still fell WoW is not addictive, wikipedia it and view how people have being so engrossed with it they let their own child die from neglect. Would you do this? More than likely not, has it happened? yes. was it a once off? I doubt it.

You're still fixating on 1 point here. You're concentrating solely on wow and forgetting that people go away on holidays and let their kids die.

11 million subscribers. Lets try to get more than a handful of examples.

I'm not saying it's not addictive, i'm saying you can't say one thing is, and ignore everything else, then try to say that the thing you pointed out is worse than everything else. It's not. Wow is addictive. Games are addictive. If they weren't, you wouldn't keep playing them for more than half an hour. Most people's attention spans (who play games), aren't very high anyway.

But tbh I think i'll take my chances with wow, given the casualties and destroyed lives from sports, alcohol, stalkers, and...well....you

Psycopat · 11-07-2009 7:22pm

Keanu Curved Mace wrote: »

I would also add that I have a friend who plays wow. He would play for over 60 hours straight... he would come downstairs after a while and tell us how much gold he farmed, or whatever. Most of this time was just spent talking to people, about the game mostly. Something like elitestjerks. He didn't shower that often, didn't eat, (dinner would be a packet of chicken goujons), NEVER went out, only to the shop. Inside all day, ever single day... He started playing in TBC, within the year he had over 200 days played... That is completely insane, we couldn't understand it. Thankfully he has cut down a lot, he only logs on to post his 750 auctions on AH. He plays to get the cap in gold. Buys things off AH cheap, sells them for the right price. I think that is nuts.

Kakistos? :P

TheDoc · 12-07-2009 1:39am

' wrote:

[cEMAN**;61097254']OMG I play wow....is it fatal? How long have I got doc?

Your alright.....aslong as your on a PVE server with a Paladin in your group I'd say you will live a full and fortuitous life.

][cEMAN** · 12-07-2009 1:48am

Oh thank god. I'm a paladin. I'll live forever! yay

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 12-07-2009 2:32am

' wrote:

[cEMAN**;61097254']OMG I play wow....is it fatal? How long have I got doc?

Recent studies show that they contradict previous studies, but agree with the studies before that.

It's a ****ing game. Did you get addicted to 'tig' when you were a kid?

Most addictive entertainment being pumped to us constantly - football. In all forms of media. The majority are addicted, but i'm not. Does that mean I don't have an addictive personality? But I play wow? OMG....i'm confused. Who am I? What does my life mean? Jesus christ ****ting in a bucket how will I ever be me again.

You can't in all seriousness get into a conversation about addiction and fixate on video games. You have to cover all the bases, and not just skim over them and say "But that's completely different". No, it's not. You're generalising physical and psychological addictions.

I know people who've read a book and read it over and over again (in response to a previous poster). They're not autistic, they just like it. Are they addicted?

Now seriously, get off your ****ing high horses or go get your degree in psychology, do a study, then come back with the full results of your findings....then justify wasting that amount of time in your life on something as pointless as trying to prove a point ON AN INTERNET FORUM!

I'm away to go check out some hot Belf in Dalaran...

Where do you get this crap from?

Not all games are addictive, some have a higher level of addictiveness than others. Some have none at all. To say all things in the same category has the same level of addictiveness is not very intelligent.

' wrote:

[cEMAN**;61098718']You're still fixating on 1 point here. You're concentrating solely on wow and forgetting that people go away on holidays and let their kids die.

11 million subscribers. Lets try to get more than a handful of examples.

I'm not saying it's not addictive, i'm saying you can't say one thing is, and ignore everything else, then try to say that the thing you pointed out is worse than everything else. It's not. Wow is addictive. Games are addictive. If they weren't, you wouldn't keep playing them for more than half an hour. Most people's attention spans (who play games), aren't very high anyway.

But tbh I think i'll take my chances with wow, given the casualties and destroyed lives from sports, alcohol, stalkers, and...well....you

You are completely missing the point, and your posts are making little to no sence at all.

The game IS addictive, there is no argument here about it.

Just because one game can be addictive, doesn't mean all games are addictive.

Everything has the potential to be addictive. WoW has incorporated a lot of differant things to make it addictive, to keep the player interested/addicted, in order to make more money. It really isn't that difficult to understand, is it? I am not sure if it is possible to simplify it any further for those finding it hard to contemplate.

Psycopat wrote: »

Kakistos? :P

Possibly

][cEMAN** · 12-07-2009 3:09am

Keanu Curved Mace wrote: »

Everything has the potential to be addictive.

Seems if you blabber on enough about something you finally get to the point that people have already tried to tell you.

I was merely being colourful with my explination rather than trying to call someones intelligence into question.

But by all means, go down the same argument that you do nearly every time i've seen you post, which is simply insulting the people you don't agree with.

I think the fact that you clearly stated what I was already saying, shows you aren't paying enough attention to what you read.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 12-07-2009 3:20am

' wrote:

[cEMAN**;61103641']Seems if you blabber on enough about something you finally get to the point that people have already tried to tell you.

I was merely being colourful with my explination rather than trying to call someones intelligence into question.

But by all means, go down the same argument that you do nearly every time i've seen you post, which is simply insulting the people you don't agree with.

I think the fact that you clearly stated what I was already saying, shows you aren't paying enough attention to what you read.

No, it means that you post in such a way that people cannot understand WTF you are talking about.

Where did I insult you? Not my fault you are easily offended by everything somebody says...

][cEMAN** · 12-07-2009 3:27am

I'm sorry if you're having problems keeping up.

Keanu Curved Mace wrote: »

It really isn't that difficult to understand, is it? I am not sure if it is possible to simplify it any further for those finding it hard to contemplate.

Well, I could, but I don't like dumbing things down.

And your comments implied I lack intelligence and the ability to understand you.

But if you don't know how......*sniff*.....UGH, i'm not going to tell you...

Kirby · 12-07-2009 4:34am

Keanu Curved Mace wrote: »

Just because one game can be addictive, doesn't mean all games are addictive.

Keanu Curved Mace wrote: »

Everything has the potential to be addictive.

Perhaps you should decide what your viewpoint is before you write a post..... ya know, the left hand talking to the right hand and all.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 12-07-2009 6:11am

Kirby wrote: »

Perhaps you should decide what your viewpoint is before you write a post..... ya know, the left hand talking to the right hand and all.

You also lack the ability to understand...? :rolleyes:

Not all games would be considered addictive, generaly speaking, but everything can be addictive to some extent.

WoW is classed as an addictive game, highely addictive, some countries ban the "recruit a friend" option.

Other games are not considered to be addictive. Ones which have an ending, game over, etc etc. Yet somebody may get addicted to this game and play it over and over again.

Can you understand that?

smithcity · 12-07-2009 8:26am

So much anger, so much bickering.
Joe Duffy was right all along, WoW will destroy us all...
Nothing I can do now...
No escape...
Unless. Unless, maybe...
Yes, that's it!!! I must burn my laptop, mine and any other I see running WoW, it's the only way to save mankind.

This is my "inconvenient truth."

Ivan · 12-07-2009 8:48am

Keanu Curved Mace wrote: »

You also lack the ability to understand...? :rolleyes:

Not all games would be considered addictive, generaly speaking, but everything can be addictive to some extent.

WoW is classed as an addictive game, highely addictive, some countries ban the "recruit a friend" option.

Other games are not considered to be addictive. Ones which have an ending, game over, etc etc. Yet somebody may get addicted to this game and play it over and over again.

Can you understand that?

Express your opinion, and debate other people's opinions. But continue with the passive-aggressive nature that you have done with every other post on these forums and you'll be taking a 3-day holiday. You've already received an infraction regarding this very same thing.

Naturally, this goes for everybody but you've already received a warning for this and seem to have waded into this thread and turned an otherwise harmless debate into your very own "look at me I'm smarter than everyone else" thread.

AaronFitz · 12-07-2009 9:03am

' wrote:

[cEMAN**;61098718']You're still fixating on 1 point here. You're concentrating solely on wow and forgetting that people go away on holidays and let their kids die.

Excuse me but if you cannot spot the diffrence between an accidental death due to falling into a pool etc etc (I'm not putting words in your mouth just stating one of the most common ways one would assume a child dies on holiday) from death due to neglect then your priorties are just wrong on this topic. How the hell can you say these two scenarios are in any way alike? It's like comparing being hit by a car to starving to death or being as malnurioushed as a child born into poverty. Dieing from neglect is not an accident. Dont try as justify it as one. To put it into more understandable termanology to cater for the 1337, bad parents are bad.

At the end of the day it's the parents responsablity to control their child and cater to their need's, this imo also rules on control their habits including gaming. WoW is mentaly addictive, there are countless source's for this absoultly countless... Google WoW addiction, the evidence is infront of you and personally I know I was addicted to WoW, there were stages a few years ago where I would play 8 hours + a day, and not only me, a hell of alot of people do that, if you cant see thats an addiction then clearly your an addict and in denial, I have NP what so ever admiting I was extreamly addicted to WoW, dependant no, but my mood altered if there was a reason I could not play it, that to me was enough to make me take a step back and thankfully I got out of that yet I still have NP admitting I am still a mild addict.

Now I'm not saying " FFS admit your an addict to opress your demons etc etc" I'm just stating I was one, a bad one, and so are alot of people but do you know what, if your not one (this is aimed at everyone who believes they are not an addict) then fair play, I respect your strong will power and stance on the argument.

smithcity · 12-07-2009 9:25am

Let's just backtrack a little, (6 or 7 pages or so).
This whole arguement arose from an ignorant woman phoning Joe Duffy to complain that WoW had become an addiction for her kids and had turned them into brainwashed monsters.
This wonderful mother formed that opinion after watching an episode of Dr. Phil that tackled the difficult issue of people with hobbies that seemed odd to most people. (That was stated at the beginning)

Well, loathe as I am to admit it, I saw that particular episode of Dr. Phil (ironically enough, because my girlfriend is addicted to trashy morning TV like Dr. Phil, Jeremy Kyle and Loose Women and other such inane filth).

Dr. Phil's opinion was that these things are not addictions, they are hobbies.
If kids are spending countless hours playing WoW, impersonating Elvis, trying to moonwalk or trying to become the greatest Pokémaster of them all, it's not because they have an addiction!
It's because they are undisciplined.
Parent's are supposed to say "No" when they think their children are spending too much time on a particular hobby.

My opinion is simple enough:
Sitting back and phoning Joe Duffy is not good parenting, it's laziness.
If your kids cant take No for an answer, the reason is simple.
It's not because of an evil game.
It's not because of eminem, slipknot or marilyn manson,
it's not because they have been brainwashed...
It's simply because those kids are not accustomed to being denied something, to not getting their own way, to having limits.
In short, they are spoiled.

It's pointless argueing that a game is at fault in any way.
The fault lies solely with the inattentiveness of the parents.

I'm glad I could clear this up,
donations can be made to Dr. Adam.
Contact details to follow.

P.S. For those of you that think games are addictive. Yes, they can be. However, it's a parents responsibilty to monitor their children, see what they're doing and limit how much they play a game.
For adults, if you don't have the self discipline required to avoid spending all day, every day, on your ass watching TV, trying to crack the latest Sudoku, or playing WoW, that's you're own problem! Don't lumber the rest of us gamers with your stigma.
Blame your problems on yourself, not the game!

For instance, I love cigarettes. They're nice. But I don't smoke them anymore because I know I was addicted and they would eventually kill me off.

elexes · 12-07-2009 9:50am

if the social aspect of this game wasnt there i would not be playing it.

AaronFitz · 12-07-2009 9:57am

smithcity wrote: »

Let's just backtrack a little, (6 or 7 pages or so).
This whole arguement arose from an ignorant woman phoning Joe Duffy to complain that WoW had become an addiction for her kids and had turned them into brainwashed monsters.
This wonderful mother formed that opinion after watching an episode of Dr. Phil that tackled the difficult issue of people with hobbies that seemed odd to most people. (That was stated at the beginning)

Well, loathe as I am to admit it, I saw that particular episode of Dr. Phil (ironically enough, because my girlfriend is addicted to trashy morning TV like Dr. Phil, Jeremy Kyle and Loose Women and other such inane filth).

Dr. Phil's opinion was that these things are not addictions, they are hobbies.
If kids are spending countless hours playing WoW, impersonating Elvis, trying to moonwalk or trying to become the greatest Pokémaster of them all, it's not because they have an addiction!
It's because they are undisciplined.
Parent's are supposed to say "No" when they think their children are spending too much time on a particular hobby.

My opinion is simple enough:
Sitting back and phoning Joe Duffy is not good parenting, it's laziness.
If your kids cant take No for an answer, the reason is simple.
It's not because of an evil game.
It's not because of eminem, slipknot or marilyn manson,
it's not because they have been brainwashed...
It's simply because those kids are not accustomed to being denied something, to not getting their own way, to having limits.
In short, they are spoiled.

It's pointless argueing that a game is at fault in any way.
The fault lies solely with the inattentiveness of the parents.

I'm glad I could clear this up,
donations can be made to Dr. Adam.
Contact details to follow.

P.S. For those of you that think games are addictive. Yes, they can be. However, it's a parents responsibilty to monitor their children, see what they're doing and limit how much they play a game.
For adults, if you don't have the self discipline required to avoid spending all day, every day, on your ass watching TV, trying to crack the latest Sudoku, or playing WoW, that's you're own problem! Don't lumber the rest of us gamers with your stigma.
Blame your problems on yourself, not the game!

For instance, I love cigarettes. They're nice. But I don't smoke them anymore because I know I was addicted and they would eventually kill me off.

Some nice points but addiction is not just about kid's so your point is moot, yes this topic is about the radio show which was based on kid's but the debate has moved on to more of a "Is WoW addictive?" and people trying to say it's not / is, your point holds until you bring adults into the equation who also play for stupid amounts of time, I know a few people on my server, even in my guild who are pushing 45 with kids who play with them and spend just as much time as I used play on it.... Here's where your post fails as not all people who play, e.g me are reliant on their parent to supply the game.

It's simply because those kids are not accustomed to being denied something, to not getting their own way, to having limits.
In short, they are spoiled.

How can the owner of the household or the individual justify it when their limits are what they set them to be? There are no limits when your incontrol of them, cause when your an addict you wont believe there are limits.

smithcity · 12-07-2009 9:58am

Ivan wrote: »

With all due respect, using your mildly autistic brother as an example of how pc games/WoW is addictive is completely biased at the very least. If he read a book for that time, would he be addicted to books? An addiction implies a physical need. I dont see how you can be physically addicted to a pc game. You can enjoy it immensely, and throw a hissy fit until your parents comply and let you play it - but addicted you aint.

As for the rest of your post, that just seems to counter your original argument.
Furthermore, if parents took an interest in their child and played with them or took a hand in their entertainment - then kids might not be so ready to go spend 4-5 hours playing a PC game to keep entertained. It's the responsibility and the fault of the parent, for leaving their child to be babysat by their computer, not the fault of the developers because their game is so damn addictive/evil...

Just going over the older posts on this thread.
With all respect Ivan, you're not really in any position to offer an opinion on Aaron's brother, he is speaking from first-hand experience and that trumps all.

I have a cousin with mild autism and I can say that what Aaron described is pretty typical, it's not an attack on WoW, gamers, or anything else.
He just described something totally relevant, in that some people, especially those with conditions such as autism, can become fixated on a certain thing. It won't necessarily be a game. It could be a book, a film, an idea, or something he or she overheard somewhere.

It's unfair to go on the offense on the basis of that post, because everything he said was well founded and unbiased.

smithcity · 12-07-2009 10:05am

AaronFitz wrote: »

How can the owner of the household or the individual justify it when their limits are what they set them to be? There are no limits when your incontrol of them, cause when your an addict you wont believe there are limits.

Not trying to be a smartarse, just asking for clarification...
Do you mean, how is a parent supposed to say "that's enough WoW for now" when they are playing more than that themselves?

If that's what you are saying then, yes it's a good point, although extreme.

There's no easy answer, all I can say is that in such a situation, it's a terrible shame that an adult can't tell where to draw the line.

I would still hold that it's not the game that is the problem, it is the personality of the gamer in question.

I am one of those people that can't abandon a problem until it is solved. However, when it is a problem such as a quest or mission in a game, I know that it's not really important, it's just a game.

Listen to Joe Duffy today(10/7/09)

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