Can't get refund!

foggy_lad

Oscar10 wrote: »

Do they get commission for selling insurance in these places??

yes they do, that is why they usually push the insurance as being very important but in general if you are usually careful with your stuff and avoid senarios where you might be robbed or thrown in a canal or river with your phone there is little need to buy extra insurance as the sale of goods act covers the handset for manufacturing faults defects etc

Oscar10 wrote: »

How long does it take to get the small claims sorted out?

it can take anything from a few weeks to several months but usually 6-8weeks from start to finish. you must usually file a formal complaint with the company or shop first and give them a reasonable time(ten days) to remedy the problem

Sam Vimes wrote: »

They know repairs are supposed to be permanent. They get 100 people a day telling them so. They're still not allowed to go against the company policy and it'll be the staff themselves who take the hit for any unauthorised replacement.

whatever the staff have to do is nothing to do with the customers and can in no way detract from or diminish a customers statutory rights!

The problem is at the manufacturers end. They won't take the phones back from the shop so the shop can't take it back from you.

again this has nothing to do with the customer!

if you buy a new car and it blows up on the M50 will the garage refuse to take it back because they claim the manufacturer will not refund them? you still have the right to give it back to them and it is up to them to fight their own case with the manufacturer but it seems phone shops would rather not do this bit of work and pass the costs on to the customer!

Sam Vimes

It's all well and good to say they should fight it with the manufacturer but the fact that O2 decided to take the hit themselves until they lost too much money on it and went back to the three repairs rule suggests to me that's not such an easy thing to do

It's bad for everyone to force shops to take the hit themselves on every faulty phone if doing so drives them out of business leaving you nowhere to buy your phones

foggy_lad

Sam Vimes wrote: »

It's all well and good to say they should fight it with the manufacturer but the fact that O2 decided to take the hit themselves until they lost too much money on it and went back to the three repairs rule suggests to me that's not such an easy thing to do

It's bad for everyone to force shops to take the hit themselves on every faulty phone if doing so drives them out of business leaving you nowhere to buy your phones

it is the way things work in ireland! Customer returns to store with faulty goods and store returns to manufacturer or wholesaler. the customer does not have to deal with the manufacturer and can not be held accountable for the cost of the store doing business with their suppliers!

Sam Vimes

foggy_lad wrote: »

it is the way things work in ireland! Customer returns to store with faulty goods and store returns to manufacturer or wholesaler. the customer does not have to deal with the manufacturer and can not be held accountable for the cost of the store doing business with their suppliers!

I'm aware of that. The problem in this case is that the "store returns to manufacturer" part of that arrangement is not going to happen so one of 3 things can happen:

1. All consumers can pay more to offset the cost of the returns. In this way the consumer can indeed be held accountable for the cost of the store doing business with their suppliers
2. The shop can bear the cost of all the faulty products even though the faults were not caused by them and lose a considerable amount of money, possibly going out of business through no fault of their own. This makes the business non-viable and leaves consumers nowhere to buy phones
3. A small percentage of unlucky consumers go through an unfair repairs process

And in reality number 2 is not going to happen because it's not financially viable to bear the brunt of all the manufacturer's faults. Personally given those options I'd rather take the risk that my phone is going to be ok because the alternative is that everyone pays more

robbie_998

i had this problem before with an unnamed source but i went in a lil annoyed and said to the guy "listen i've being on to the National Consumer Agency and they said I am entitled to a full refund or exchange and if i dont get that you'll have the authorities to deal with !" your man was ****ting him self and ran for another phone as quick as he could !

foggy_lad

Sam Vimes wrote: »

I'm aware of that. The problem in this case is that the "store returns to manufacturer" part of that arrangement is not going to happen so one of 3 things can happen:

1. All consumers can pay more to offset the cost of the returns. In this way the consumer can indeed be held accountable for the cost of the store doing business with their suppliers
2. The shop can bear the cost of all the faulty products even though the faults were not caused by them and lose a considerable amount of money, possibly going out of business through no fault of their own. This makes the business non-viable and leaves consumers nowhere to buy phones
3. A small percentage of unlucky consumers go through an unfair repairs process

And in reality number 2 is not going to happen because it's not financially viable to bear the brunt of all the manufacturer's faults. Personally given those options I'd rather take the risk that my phone is going to be ok because the alternative is that everyone pays more

the store always have the choice to sue the manufacturers or stop selling their products untill they start taking responsibility for their shoddy products! whatever the store does do has nothing to do with the customer though as they can not refuse to repair replace or refund by saying the manufacturer wont refund them!

these stores should stop their whinging and treat customers properly as having to take the hit on a few faulty returns is just one of the costs of being in business! if they cant stand the heat they should get out of the mobile phone business.

Sam Vimes

I think "a few faulty phones" kind of underestimates the number, which the substantial amount of money lost by O2 showed when they briefly did what you're suggesting before realising it cost too much

Would you be willing to pay 10-20% more for your phones and/or your bills to offset the cost of bringing in this policy? Or would you be here complaining about them ripping us off?

foggy_lad

Sam Vimes wrote: »

I think "a few faulty phones" kind of underestimates the number, which the substantial amount of money lost by O2 showed when they briefly did what you're suggesting before realising it cost too much

Would you be willing to pay 10-20% more for your phones and/or your bills to offset the cost of bringing in this policy? Or would you be here complaining about them ripping us off?

i first suggested that the shopkeepers get refunds from the manufacturers and dont say this would not work as stores like tesco supervalue etc all source goods from suppliers with conditions atatched for returning damaged/faulty items for credit, if it can be done for televisions etc in tescos why cant the carphone warehouse vodafone o2 meteor do the same?

Sam Vimes

foggy_lad wrote: »

if it can be done for televisions etc in tescos why cant the carphone warehouse vodafone o2 meteor do the same?

I don't make the policies of those companies so I can't say for sure but I would guess that Nokia and Sony Ericsson have a better bargaining position than the makers of televisions as the two main players in the market. The shops get nothing out of this crappy policy besides headaches and bad publicity so I'm sure they'd jump at the chance to get refunds for their customers if they could get the manufacturers to pony up the dough

If you want to find out why it can't be done for sure you'd be best off asking O2 since they found that it was easier to pay for all replacements themselves than to get the manufacturers to change the policy

Elessar

Sam Vimes wrote: »

I don't make the policies of those companies so I can't say for sure but I would guess that Nokia and Sony Ericsson have a better bargaining position than the makers of televisions as the two main players in the market. The shops get nothing out of this crappy policy besides headaches and bad publicity so I'm sure they'd jump at the chance to get refunds for their customers if they could get the manufacturers to pony up the dough

What are you trying to say? Do you want us to sympathise with the poor retailers? Foggy lad is right, and an argument about this is pointless. Contract is with the retailer, and it is neither the consumers business nor obligation to consider the plight the retailer has with returns to their suppliers. If a fault has reoccured after one attempt by the retailer to repair the phone, you have power to go further since the repair is not permanent. The fact the retailer may be loosing money on foot of application of the law is completely irrelevant.

Sam Vimes

Elessar wrote: »

What are you trying to say? Do you want us to sympathise with the poor retailers? Foggy lad is right, and an argument about this is pointless. Contract is with the retailer, and it is neither the consumers business nor obligation to consider the plight the retailer has with returns to their suppliers. If a fault has reoccured after one attempt by the retailer to repair the phone, you have power to go further since the repair is not permanent. The fact the retailer may be loosing money on foot of application of the law is completely irrelevant.

I'm not saying we should sympathise with the retailers, I'm appealing entirely to selfishness. If the shops have to take the cost of every manufacturer fault, that cost will be offset by increasing prices. It's a crap policy but it's not the fault of the shops and the manufacturers won't live up to their responsibility so the cost is going to be put onto the consumer one way or another

foggy_lad

Sam Vimes wrote: »

I'm not saying we should sympathise with the retailers, I'm appealing entirely to selfishness. If the shops have to take the cost of every manufacturer fault, that cost will be offset by increasing prices. It's a crap policy but it's not the fault of the shops and the manufacturers won't live up to their responsibility so the cost is going to be put onto the consumer one way or another

the retailers and phone companies are already increasing their costs by restricting upgrades and by increasing the length of contracts while phone prices stay the same so what you are saying is the shops will add 20% to handset costs to allow for repairs and they will still get most handsets repaired under warrenty so it is all about money in shopkeepers tills!