Random. Off topic and Broadcast Musing

scath

Looks like Setanta Hibernian is back in business and all
good for Irish DTT I'd say now their main objective is resolved. If they can get 2 two new investors on board that'll be good. I'd say I'd not be suprised if Doughty offloaded to Liberty TV3 in a few years...and being involved in DTT might suit Liberty in using cable capacity for broadband while pushing pay DTT using T2 and MPEG4 for the subs. They've a better future in that that cable TV and a way to expand nationwide. I'd say it wouldn't be long before new owner of Eircom might lose interest in DTT anyways maybe...so I think Setanta together with its local channels and DTT could work nicely for it and I see TV3 and UTV as the next targets for Liberty and perhaps an Irish news channel. That's probably where Liberty can take things with UPC becoming a broadband telecoms provider and internet TV/broadband and DTT. When you think of it that is Liberty's direction or strategy I would imagine. Its more strategic provided Setanta's Irish business is solid than waiting for Onevision to fail and also means less investment needed from it in DTT.
See: http://www.independent.ie/business/media/setanta-ireland-avoids-the-drop-with-rights-deal-1824468.html
In a statement, the Premier League said Setanta "was allowed to enter the sales process as a newly formed company and after having met certain criteria".

The newly formed company is understood to be known as 'Setanta Hibernian', and is backed by Setanta founders Leonard Ryan and Mickey O'Rourke, and concert promoter Denis Desmond, a long-term 20pc shareholder in the Irish business. The new company will also look to bring in fresh investment. UPC-owner Liberty Global and two other potential investors are already mulling over business plans.

Elmo

scath wrote: »

Looks like Setanta Hibernian is back in business and all
good for Irish DTT I'd say now their main objective is resolved. If they can get 2 two new investors on board that'll be good. I'd say I'd not be suprised if Doughty offloaded to Liberty TV3 in a few years...and being involved in DTT might suit Liberty in using cable capacity for broadband while pushing pay DTT using T2 and MPEG4 for the subs. They've a better future in that that cable TV and a way to expand nationwide. I'd say it wouldn't be long before new owner of Eircom might lose interest in DTT anyways maybe...so I think Setanta together with its local channels and DTT could work nicely for it and I see TV3 and UTV as the next targets for Liberty and perhaps an Irish news channel. That's probably where Liberty can take things with UPC becoming a broadband telecoms provider and internet TV/broadband and DTT. When you think of it that is Liberty's direction or strategy I would imagine. Its more strategic provided Setanta's Irish business is solid than waiting for Onevision to fail and also means less investment needed from it in DTT.

I refuse to even hope that something like this could or will happen. I mean we have all come up with our own Idea's of how things should work out, and what would be best for each of the "shareholders". At the end of the day DTT is still up in the air. I don't think DH will off load TV3 in the near future, they won't have earned any money from it if they do, I don't think TV3 would even fetch the rate that DH bought them for in 2006 even with 3e and One Vision.

watty

Cable has no shortage of capacity to do BB and TV. DSL is used Hybrid with DTT, but not cable anywhere.

Also any interest Liberty might have for Setanta would be to do with having more cable content under their control instead of under Sky's control.

TV3 when you consider Debt is losing money. DTT pay would lose 40M+ the first year and 20M a year thereafter. I think in current realistic climate and post Setanta International collapse no investor will have the appetite for Pay DTT.

scath

I agree Watty, it hasn't in terms of capacity as far as i understand, but it has limitations in terms of cable expansion, compared with DTT, population dispersal etc. That's where MMDS comes in isn't it. That's where I see pay DTT as complimentary to UPC. I don't know how MMDS compares with DTT in terms of spectrum usage, quality, cost? What's your view on it.

Cable has no need of DTT. That it is not done anywhere doesn't mean it can't be done. Just maybe that there is no benefit to. I guess cable would continue where it is and simply it would make sense for UPC to use DTT as a way to expand beyond cable and discontinue mmds.

What's your view then on MMDS, is DTT a better route than MMDS for UPC? I gather coverage wise and quality wise it is. Thus that would make sense for it to do pay DTT instead of MMDS?

I can understand the appetite for pay DTT has diminished but that doesn't mean that given sufficient capacity for a range of channels, with a good price that it can't break even within the lifetime of the contract of 10/12 years. USB DTT sticks can play a part in that. Also I have said before that I see a place for integrated instant messaging and audio-visual with TV and it has a place also.

However I do feel that combo boxes and of satellite and terrestrial could certainly offer an alternative to Sky with a sufficient free number of channels but I can see cable and DTT don't provide any benefit to each other short of cable dropping the Irish channels to save on spectrum costs, given that TVs have aerials anyway.

scath

The reason I support Pay DTT, is for it to provide an alternative to UPC and Sky. Also combo boxes would aid switching between Sky and pay DTT. With cable/mmds its just that. You rent or disconnect. Pay DTT compliments FTA satellite. To be honest I think if necessary RTÉ should run pay DTT and also support combo boxes purely to offer an alternative, if Onevision don't go ahead. Otherwise DTT will be an unprofitable network and we might aswell all go MMDS and just not bother with DTT at all. So either go full hog or not at all. None of this fTA DTT only. That would be a waste of money. That means then FTA MMDS. If you're going to have a network it should pay and FTA elements and get the most return on capacity.

Regarding TV3 being loss making etc...if you look at Liberty, Channel South, City Channels, now Setanta, you can see why I'd say TV3 next. I'd add UTV to that. If there could be a merger of TV3 and UTV an all island channel would certainly have strengths. You also have spectrum released.

Elmo

Bring in a new cable provider then! And with City Channel, Setanta, TV3 and UPC. Liberty provide no real alternative.

Remember when Eircom and RTÉ owned Cablelink they where prevented from rolling out Telephony and a TV station (the TV station was stopped due to the start up of TV3 more so than by RTÉ). But what I am saying is that One Vision may just become UPC Terrestrial.

scath

I agree with that Elmo....just don't want us to have later launch like Freeview and Top-up TV. I agree with RTÉ and we should have pay TV boxes at launch. Otherwise it makes the pay DTT end difficult to get going. I think the new Broadcasting Act is right. But I believe ComReg and the BAI should merge as An Bord Snip Nua and also Deputy Coveney submitted in debates. I think there's scope for pay DTT which mostly will be sport and movies. However I believe that RTÉ should have gotten 2 muxes and pay 2 not 3 and 1.

I believe that TG4 should be part of the RTÉ company albeit it with a seperate board , but just not a seperate company similar to CIE. I have suggested to the Minister that the Irish Film Channel should be part of TG4 for cost saving reasons, expertise etc...Why not. Likewise the Oireachtas Channel.

To be honest I think we should do away with the TG brand and make it RTÉ2. Current RTE2 should be CRTÉ brand instead.

You save on central advertising rates by bringing TG4 ad gather costs back into the RTÉ fold you save on branding. Then with the Irish Films Channel using Baile na HAbhainn.

BTW RTÉ Nuacht starts from TG4 studios today! I'd have thought that TG4 news should be coming from Montrose, ie the other direction given the cost savings of same, centrality of Dublin, guests etc..

Why not MMDS then, is it inferior to DTT? I'm not for only FTA DTT. No reason to only have cable or satellite choice. That's why I think am for Liberty as part of Onevision, that way at least you have two strong players. Sky on one hand, Liberty on the other. Of course not having liberty would be good but the thing is, less likely pay DTT goes bust with Liberty involved cos pay DTT is just good for UPC expanding subscriptions and areas where no cable is. So my answer watty is someone like UPC involved avoids pay DTT going bust so they wouldn't depend on it. Also for those with no cable, the combo option of satellite and pay DTT is an easy way snap people off Sky with only the box needing change for the customer, so convenient alternative with lots of free channels too and the Irish channels. Also by default a fta dtt combo box should be done by UPC just to save spectrum costs so that UPC get staying in the house regardless of subscription or not. It means you have the possibility at any time to sign the person up but you also have the free DTT channels similar to what sky do after 1 year sub

scath

scath wrote: »

Why not MMDS then, is it inferior to DTT?

Very inferior reception wise.
It needs direct line of sight.
The slightest dip between you and the tx and it's gone.

I can't see Mt Leinster here-yet,if I swing an aerial without a mast head amp in it's direction I have it's DTT.
Similarally with Kippure.
I deffo can't see it,yet can get it's DTT.

Theres loads of examples also of DTT being received far away from it's intended coverage area.
Ok dips and Valleys can block it but not as much they can mmds by a long shot.

Elmo

scath wrote: »

I believe that TG4 should be part of the RTÉ company albeit it with a seperate board , but just not a seperate company similar to CIE. I have suggested to the Minister that the Irish Film Channel should be part of TG4 for cost saving reasons, expertise etc...Why not. Likewise the Oireachtas Channel.

To be honest I think we should do away with the TG brand and make it RTÉ2. Current RTE2 should be CRTÉ brand instead.

You save on central advertising rates by bringing TG4 ad gather costs back into the RTÉ fold you save on branding. Then with the Irish Films Channel using Baile na HAbhainn.

BTW RTÉ Nuacht starts from TG4 studios today! I'd have thought that TG4 news should be coming from Montrose, ie the other direction given the cost savings of same, centrality of Dublin, guests etc..

And I cannot disagree with you more .

TG4 and the supporters for the Irish Language would hate to see RTÉ 2 become RTÉ á Dó, in the late 1980s and early 1990's RTÉ 2 or Network 2 was providing some Irish Language programming but not allot. It didn't work then.

And it cannot be CRTÉ because of the word would be leanaí hence LRTÉ or RTÉL.

Both TG4 and RTÉ have excellent children's brands in Cula4 and The Den no need to rebrand those brands. IMO.

RTÉ could sell advertising for TG4 as TG4 have never sold their own advertising, RTÉ Sales may have even tendered for it as TV3 may have also.

Nuacht RTÉ has been broadcasting since last Monday for BnaA.

I would hate to see more re-branding RTÉ isn't a strong brand and TG4 for operational reasons is better off out of the RTÉ mind set, as proven by their programming.

In saying all of this I believe that TG4 are currently over funded and their funds from the exchequer could be reduced to at least 30,000,000.

I think the lose of TG4 would be a far greater loose that you could imagine.

Elmo

watty wrote: »

If TV3 had more competition they would go bust quicker. At present they can't hardly cover the repayments on their Debt.

Good.

Elmo

Also TV would be forgotten about if the BAI and ComReg became one. Over regulation of the Network with no regulation of Content.

watty

ComReg over-regulate?

These people don't think so http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=682

Elmo

watty wrote: »

ComReg over-regulate?

These people don't think so http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=682

What I mean is that they would be far more focused on Networks, energy providers, broadband etc than they would be for television content.

I mean they are Regulators in a deregulated world what are you expecting?

scath

TG4 and the supporters for the Irish Language would hate to see RTÉ 2 become RTÉ á Dó, I agree, it is important for TG4 to be run seperately of RTE and programming shows that. I'm only saying to have 1 organisiation not two but 2 devolved subsidaries if you like actually 3. I mean Radio Telifis Eireann means Radio Television Ireland. That implies Irish and English so I think a CIE situation where you have RTÉ English and RTÉ Irish (RnaG and TG4) so that TG4 just in terms of assets and overview they would be one company as RTÉ.

What I'm saying is not to have Montrose in charge of TG4. I'm saying just have the 1 company. But two boards with equal powers. Okay you can call it RTEG if that sounds better. I agree regarding RTEL (Leanai) but okay then CulaDen if you want a good brand made by RTÉL but Irish and english language kids programming should be mixed for the benefit of bilingual encouragement for kids. I take your point on that. But nieching is the way to go.




Nuacht RTÉ has notbeen broadcasting since last Monday from BnaA. Nope, is today..see link: http://www.iftn.ie/broadcast/?act1=record&only=1&aid=73&rid=4282318&tpl=archnews&force=1 says July 20th. That's today.

I am not saying have TG4 for operational reasons ran by RTÉ mind set I just believe that they should belong to the same holding company with a joint board but separate boards of directors. It would simplify matters with the TV license and save money on branding. Moving TG4 to an RTÉ2 position would benefit TG4 in my opinion and move RTÉ2 to position for in ATT and DTT era.

I'm not talking about merging TG4 into RTÉ, just remove the TG4 brand. I would have favoured TG4 having the devolved power in their own right but within the RTÉ holding brand.

scath

TG4 and the supporters for the Irish Language would hate to see RTÉ 2 become RTÉ á Dó, I agree, it is important for TG4 to be run seperately of RTE and programming shows that. I'm only saying to have 1 holding organisiation and 1 brand not two but 2 devolved subsidaries if you like, actually 3 add RTÉ Oireachtas and the Irish Film Board. I mean Radio Telifis Eireann means Radio Television Ireland. That implies Irish and English so I think a CIE situation where you have RTÉ English and RTÉ Irish (RnaG and TG4) so that TG4 just in terms of assets and overview they would have to seperate board but they would be one company brand as RTÉ. Its about saving money, saving money on branding while preserving the creative benefits of 2 seperate boards. That's my purpose, not to have RTÉ take back TG4....mind you they did a good job while TG4 was under RTÉ ownership of leaving it to do its thing. They also trained the TG4 staff so they must be given some credit but obviously there is more passion in TG4 probably to be cost effective rather than just a job its more a work of passion for people there.

I agree regarding RTEL (Leanai) but okay then CulaDen if you want a good brand made by RTÉL but Irish and english language kids programming should be mixed for the benefit of bilingual encouragement for kids. I take your point on that. But nieching is the way to go.


Nuacht RTÉ has not been broadcasting since last Monday from BnaA. Nope, is today, think u got that date wrong..see link: http://www.iftn.ie/broadcast/?act1=record&only=1&aid=73&rid=4282318&tpl=archnews&force=1 says July 20th. That's today.

You probably thought I meant merge TG4 operationally into RTÉ mind set No, i just mean the brand and as a seperate subsidiary, with the powers it currently has, just the brand. I Moving TG4 to an RTÉ2 position would benefit TG4 in my opinion and move RTÉ2 to position 4 in ATT and DTT era.

I'm not talking about merging TG4 into RTÉ, just remove the TG4 brand. I would have favoured TG4 having the devolved power in their own right but within the RTÉ holding brand.

Regarding MMDS thanks Black Briar then you can see why DTT is a better option for UPC than MMDS. So they would only be replacing MMDS with DTT and so their imperative of profitability would not be much more than it currently is which is why probably or DTT it is better to have them involved in pay DTT. Cable has most to lose with pay DTT which is why with Liberty they would not push as hard for pay DTT except with those outside of cable land. They would then switch of their MMDS signal and return the spectrum

Elmo

I would love to see RTÉ TWO have its own management services but they don't and TBH RTÉ wouldn't provide it to TG4.

I could see TG4 and RnaG merging for efficiencies and that they would provide Nuacht RTÉ to RTÉ rather than the other way around. (Both RTE and TG4 have access to the EBU broadcasts for free).

All of TG4 programmes are bilingual. TG4 rarely if ever dub live action TV dramas for children. All strands on TG4 carry English Language programming.

I don't think The Den or Cula4 should merge, both provide some bilingual programming.

And I don't like the RTÉ stamp all over everything they do, I always perfered N2 or Network 2. Lets face it the rebranding back to RTÉ was half as effective as the Network 2 rebrand (but than it couldn't have got much worse).

I think RTÉ and TG4 should be left as is, I think TG4 wouldn't benefit from the merger. They have a good brand which they have worked really hard on.

TBH this is totally OTT

Broadcasting act http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055624833
An Bord Snip Nua http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055623286

Oh I have been watch Nuacht RTÉ since last Monday and it seems to be the same set, with a different background like the RTÉ News service, they don't provide long shots of the studio and on Sunday one of the TG4 newsreaders was presenting Nuacht RTÉ.

scath

I agree have gone off topic. To be honest I just think TG4 is a pigeon hole for them.....I like the seperate graphics all that just I think more use of RTÉ brand should be made. It saves money in terms of advertising to use the same brand. I'd also like to see it repositioned to position 1 instead of RTE1 currently. I'd move RTÉ2 for now to position 4. okay...i sent idea to them. Let u know if hear back. They didn't like my last as I didn't consult before sending to minister. Mind u I was wrong, I didn't intend to not consult before submitting, just forgot to. Reason over-enthuisiasm lol

Elmo

See this thread becomes very handy.

Elmo

What happened?

I cann't see all the posts?

watty

I hope this isn't broken


OK Seems fixed.

watty

Digital TV doesn't make your TV set obsolete.

Video of a 1930's TV set receiving UK DTT.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8159406.stm

Admittedly it needs a 625 to 405 standards converter!

Elmo

watty wrote: »

Digital TV doesn't make your TV set obsolete.

Video of a 1930's TV set receiving UK DTT.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8159406.stm

Admittedly it needs a 625 to 405 standards converter!

Would a HD STB make the picture any better?

watty

no
Of the 405 lines about 377 are used for the image.

regular SD 625 lines is 576 for image
In 1935 they called it HD as people had been fiddling with 19th century 22 line Mechanical TV transmitted on MW.

Elmo

I was just reading a thesis done back in 1999 about TV3 in DCU.

and I was just think about TV3 stats: -

According to the thesis back in 1999 TV3 stated.

We now have 70% of all of our news viewers under 45 in comparison to 33% under 45 for Six One on RTÉ.

IMO that is just a rubbish statistic.

Elmo

That the BBC, ITV, Channel 4 and possibly five will decide to go with individual HD channels on the freeview platform and reduce their number of freeview channels in the coming years. They may choose to keeps some of their additional channels on Satellite, but in general will use their On Demand Services for most all other channels.

Elmo

scath wrote: »

I agree regarding RTEL (Leanai) but okay then CulaDen if you want a good brand made by RTÉL but Irish and english language kids programming should be mixed for the benefit of bilingual encouragement for kids. I take your point on that. But nieching is the way to go.

Nah Cula4

CÚLA4 Joins Kids Zone on Chorus ntl Digital

Elmo

Is this a case of Setanta Ireland becoming more a sports entertainment channel. I think if they want to boost their ratings they will need a phone in show like Sports Tonight, either in the morning, at 6 or late nights. A sports news programme is definitely missing since TV3 got rid of Sports Tonight. For a small channel Setanta should be looking for some like this. IMO The Hub is a bit to phone in based, often runs like a Radio show, sometimes I think City Channels Sports Review programme is just as good (its not but, presenter talking to people over the phone is its format).

Even if they went with a Sports News service for a few hours during the day might help boost ratings. Plenty of unemployed men sitting around watching The Afternoon Show or Ireland AM.

afatbollix

they have dropped the hub.

Elmo

afatbollix wrote: »

they have dropped the hub.

:rolleyes:

2010 will be the end of Setanta. I am guessing that RTE will be showing the rugby world cup in 2011.

afatbollix

no setanta still have the rights.. which is a bit ****... Sure it will be on in the early hours of the morning.. so no one will be watching, Dident TV3 do highlights last time?