Nazi Statue !?!?

Why do we have a statue to this dude?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0709/1224250318117.html

A MEMORIAL statue of republican leader Seán Russell, which was erected in Fairview Park Dublin just over a week ago, has been defaced by graffiti proclaiming him to have been a nazi.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article6591795.ece

ONE of the most vandalised statues in Ireland has just become one of the most untouchable; it has been fitted with sensor alarms and a tracking device in its head.

The memorial of Sean Russell, the former IRA chief of staff, in Dublin’s Fairview Park has been attacked several times, mainly because of his ties to Nazi Germany.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/eichmann-would-get-a-statue-if-hed-had-an-irish-grandmother-1815598.html

what is the prevailing aesthetic which can rule that the destroyers of Nelson's Pillar in Dublin may permanently affect the streetscape of the capital, but that a statue to a Nazi fellow traveller should be restored?

Overheal

so if you approach it, it shoots laser beams out of its eyes?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

What was that adage - the enemy of my enemy is my friend?
So if the Brits were the enemy, then, during WW2 the nazis would have been our friends...

truecrippler

Overheal wrote: »

so if you approach it, it shoots laser beams out of its eyes?

Pfft don't be silly, we all know that sharks are the only things with that sort of capability.

It goes Night At The Museum on you. A scale version of the Luftwaffe attack you .

Overheal

truecrippler wrote: »

Pfft don't be silly, we all know that sharks are the only things with that sort of capability.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCLAduDXPpQ

dlofnep

I'm neither here nor there on Seán Russell - But he went to germany to secure arms, not to assist Nazi Germany. His choice to secure them from Nazi Germany is questionable, but it certainly doesn't mean that he agreed with their views.

I would hazard a guess that his statue is there because of the tremedous work he put into securing Irish sovereignty, with his participation in the Easter Rising rather than getting his hands dirty by going to Nazi Germany to secure arms. It should be noted that he also went to Russia to secure arms. He certainly didn't hold Nazi views.

It's always nice to put things in context.

starn

The statue should not of been replaced Sean Russell after it was vandalised. Russell was a nazi callaborator and does not deserve any sort of commemoration

empirix

dlofnep wrote: »

I'm neither here nor there on Seán Russell - But he went to germany to secure arms, not to assist Nazi Germany. His choice to secure them from Nazi Germany is questionable, but it certainly doesn't mean that he agreed with their views.

I would hazard a guess that his statue is there because of the tremedous work he put into securing Irish sovereignty, with his participation in the Easter Rising rather than getting his hands dirty by going to Nazi Germany to secure arms. It should be noted that he also went to Russia to secure arms. He certainly didn't hold Nazi views.

It's always nice to put things in context.

Agreed - you will find that many countries in the world erect statues of men and women who played an integeral role in the freedom of their country - respect them, there aint to many of them about these days, we 've replaced them with money grabbers

Sean Russell was over securing arms from what was probably the only country in europe willing to give them to the republican movement at that time, he done whateverhad to be done, whether he had a clear conscience or not is another thing but i dont think he would of had too much of a problem with the nazis bombing Britain, it probably helped the IRA operate, sorry but the man deserves to be honoured!

dlofnep

I don't have an issue with the dicussion around Seán Russell's involvement with Nazi Germany, but I think it should done so in context.

Do people believe he wanted to murder millions of jews, or do people believe he was just getting his hands dirty to secure arms to fight against the British?

Nordie Loyalist

Deleted User wrote: »

Why do we have a statue to this dude?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0709/1224250318117.html





http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article6591795.ece





http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/eichmann-would-get-a-statue-if-hed-had-an-irish-grandmother-1815598.html

Ignorance is no excuse. He was what he was back in the time that he lived.

I could post a lot of links concerning the US of A and activities in many countries that would make you vomit your quotes out of your eyeballs.

NickNolte

The Nazis were a bunch of scumbags. The Brits were a bunch of scumbags. The Irish were... oppressed opportunists.

PK2008

Who cares

Hagar

Irish Army helmet.

Pic 1

Pic 2

Dr Strange

Hagar wrote: »

Irish Army helmet.

Pic 1

Pic 2

Links don't work for me? Are you refering to the Vickers helmet which is a German M16 style WWI helmet? Nice helmet.

Link to some helmets: http://www.gostak.demon.co.uk/helmets/ireland.htm

Hagar

Preusse wrote: »

Links don't work for me? Are you refering to the Vickers helmet which is a German M16 style WWI helmet? Nice helmet.

Link to some helmets: http://www.gostak.demon.co.uk/helmets/ireland.htm

Precisely. I knew I couldn't slip them past you.

http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/utah/894/image016.jpg

http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/utah/894/image017.jpg

There's the full links.

Dr Strange

Hagar wrote: »

Precisely. I knew I couldn't slip them past you.

...by the way, if anyone has some nice Irish Vickers helmets...I am buying!....
>_>
<_<

EDIT: Sorry hagar, still can't see the pics

Adamcp898

and sure DeV guaranteed our support to Hitler too if he got as far as us

Hagar

Copy and paste the text of the link into the address bar and see how it goes.

Hackman

Preusse wrote: »

...by the way, if anyone has some nice Irish Vickers helmets...I am buying!....
>_>
<_<

EDIT: Sorry hagar, still can't see the pics

I had one for ages. It was a PA one. It had a red band painted on it. It was stolen on me in a break-in at the house :mad:.

Dr Strange

Hackman wrote: »

I had one for ages. It was a PA one. It had a red band painted on it. It was stolen on me in a break-in at the house :mad:.

Damn bastards. I had a break-in a couple of years ago. Most of the stuff was returned after some, uhm, persuasion though. Hate criminals. :mad:

Hagar wrote: »

Copy and paste the text of the link into the address bar and see how it goes.

Yep, that works. Nice, it has the badge on it.

Euro_Kraut

Adamcp898 wrote: »

and sure DeV guaranteed our support to Hitler too if he got as far as us

Really??? You have evidence for this?

Adamcp898

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Really??? You have evidence for this?

I thought it was common knowledge tbh, he even paid a visit to the German minister to Ireland at the time to express his condolances upon hearing of Hitler's death

mike65

DeValera was many unpleasent things but he did not suggest that! As for his condolences to Germany on the death of their leader I guess he was taking protocol to its logical conclusion!

An Fear Aniar

"The Irish Government, therefore, was on its guard against action from either side. De Valera declared that Ireland would defend herself against any attack. If it came from Germany, he would appeal for British help. If it was from Britain, he would call upon Germany."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2242/is_1658_284/ai_114594460/


.

mike65

When the invasion of Britain was planned, it seems Hitler regarded the British Isles as one entity.

Bloody West Brit!

dlofnep

Hitler did attack Ireland BTW. He bombed the utter ****e out of Belfast. And bombed Dublin thereafter "by mistake". Although, it's been hypothesized that it was done in retaliation for the south offering aid to the north.

Micky Dolenz

Preusse wrote: »

...by the way, if anyone has some nice Irish Vickers helmets...I am buying!....
>_>
<_<

I have a nice Irish helmet, wanna look?

Capt'n Midnight

truecrippler wrote: »

Pfft don't be silly, we all know that sharks are the only things with that sort of capability.

I beg to differ
http://www.snakesonablog.com/swp/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/whales-1.jpg

Dr Strange

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I have a nice Irish helmet, wanna look?

I can't help but think this is not exactly what I am looking for...but....go on then.

Victor

mike65 wrote: »

As for his condolences to Germany on the death of their leader I guess he was taking protocol to its logical conclusion!

And there was an election coming up, so saying "screw you" to the British was "cool".

seanrussell100

Proper Nazi's deserve proper Nazi monuments:

http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/ss136/seanthegerman/seanthenazi-web.jpg

http://rapidshare.com/files/261471742/seanthenazi-large.jpg

mirror mirror

dlofnep wrote: »

I don't have an issue with the dicussion around Seán Russell's involvement with Nazi Germany, but I think it should done so in context.

Do people believe he wanted to murder millions of jews, or do people believe he was just getting his hands dirty to secure arms to fight against the British?

was anyone in ireland aware of what was happening the jews amongst others at that time i.e concentration camps etc.he was trying to bring in weapons for ira from germany.he fought in irish war of independence as brave as any other irishman at that time.his statue should be left alone.maybe some of these vandals were caught and taught a lesson?some countries would take better care of memorials to men who fought for their country.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

He may have had ties to the Nazi's but that doesn't mean he agreed with them, they were against the Brits, we were against the Brits, of course they would help us with our armory.

thebman

dlofnep wrote: »

I'm neither here nor there on Seán Russell - But he went to germany to secure arms, not to assist Nazi Germany. His choice to secure them from Nazi Germany is questionable, but it certainly doesn't mean that he agreed with their views.

I would hazard a guess that his statue is there because of the tremedous work he put into securing Irish sovereignty, with his participation in the Easter Rising rather than getting his hands dirty by going to Nazi Germany to secure arms. It should be noted that he also went to Russia to secure arms. He certainly didn't hold Nazi views.

It's always nice to put things in context.

Exactly, its just people being oversensitive about the issue.

Talking to Nazi's and trying to buy guns from them does not a Nazi make.

You can call him a dodgy character if you want but lots of other countries that have been invaded have had people do dodgy things to get liberated.

mickydoomsux

An Fear Aniar wrote: »

If it came from Germany, he would appeal for British help. If it was from Britain, he would call upon Germany

So basically it was 'Brits out!!!!!!! ........until we need help', at least some things never change.

Also buying guns from the Nazi's would have funded the Holocaust. Russell should have been treated as a collaborator.

Rebelheart

seanrussell100 wrote: »

Proper Nazi's deserve proper Nazi monuments:

http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/ss136/seanthegerman/seanthenazi-web.jpg

http://rapidshare.com/files/261471742/seanthenazi-large.jpg

What are the chances that this new poster has something to do with the vandalism of this statue? An IP trace might help the Garda inquiry greatly.

Of course, if he spent more time attending a night class in English where he could, for example, learn the difference between the possessive singular and the nominative plural of the word Nazi he might have greater things in life to achieve than getting involved in this sort of thing (that includes texting Newstalk this afternoon).

thebman

mickydoomsux wrote: »

So basically it was 'Brits out!!!!!!! ........until we need help', at least some things never change.

Also buying guns from the Nazi's would have funded the Holocaust. Russell should have been treated as a collaborator.

So should IBM.

http://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/

Rebelheart

thebman wrote: »

So should IBM.

http://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/

So should, among other countries, the United States which until as late as 23 October 1944 acknowledged the Vichy régime as the legitimate government of France.

Imagine that, a history which is not black and white full of cowboys and Indians.

Morlar

dlofnep wrote: »

Hitler did attack Ireland BTW. He bombed the utter ****e out of Belfast. And bombed Dublin thereafter "by mistake". Although, it's been hypothesized that it was done in retaliation for the south offering aid to the north.

It has also been hypothesised that the luftwaffe pilots did not fancy their chances againts the anti aircraft barrages most cities in england could put up. The germans compensated us for it and the pilots claimed it was the fog and navigational errors, they saw the lights and thought it was liverpool (if I remember correctly). They bombed the south more than once, dun laoghaire, north strand and a creamery down the country also (in addition to Belfast).

therewillbe

M27

You Suck!

timesonline wrote:

The right hand was also removed. In previous attacks the entire right arm was broken off, this time by a self-styled right-wing group who believed Russell was giving a communist salute.

Don't think anyone noticed this.....makes me like him just for the fact that he's pissing off both extremes.

Whats with all these retards running round espousing 20th century regressive political theorys anyway in this day and age? Fuckin luddites!

Back to the past with ye!

PrivateEye

While not an Irish Republican, as a lefty I think the clear anti-fascist tendencies of Irish Republicanism historically have to be remembered, names like Kit Conway, James Connolly, Frank Ryan and Peader O' Donnell are much more important to remember than those of the Mise Éire 'seize the day' types like Mr. Russell. I don't believe he was a fascist so much as a misguided idiot, a complete and utter 'wrap the Green Flag around me' type.

There is no way in hell the man deserves a statue, while not a fascist colabarating with nazi Germany in any way was in poor taste (and before anyone mentions Frank Ryan in Berlin his battlefield record speaks for itself, as do his health records- the man had dementia from physical and mental abuse in a fascist-prison. Nazi records state they always considered him a 'Strong supporter of the Comintern unlikely to change')

Russell embodies the ugliest, most ignorant side of republicanism that ignored its own history and in a way gave nazi Germany a sense of legitimacy no organisation like the IRA (who had previously smashed up blueshirts meetings) should have granted it.

What are the chances that this new poster has something to do with the vandalism of this statue? An IP trace might help the Garda inquiry greatly.

Probably very little, every time the Russell statue is vandalised the images spread like wildfire around the net from people with usernames like 'AntiFascist' etc. More likely the individual didn't have a boards account, wanted to bring the image to peoples attention, and won't be back.

The statue shouldn't be there at all.

El Siglo

The vandalism done to the statue of Russell could be a lot worse, look what those hippy lefties did to this statue, disgraceful!

marcsignal

dlofnep wrote: »

I don't have an issue with the dicussion around Seán Russell's involvement with Nazi Germany, but I think it should done so in context

well said dlofnep, i'm glad someone got in the voice of reason before we had another AH nazi scare story on our hands, seems to be quite fashionable lately.

dlofnep wrote: »

Do people believe he wanted to murder millions of jews, or do people believe he was just getting his hands dirty to secure arms to fight against the British?

mirror mirror wrote: »

was anyone in ireland aware of what was happening the jews amongst others at that time i.e concentration camps etc.

Sean Russel would not have been aware of, or be otherwise influenced by the Holocaust, because it didn't begin until over a year after he died in 1940. It's the reaction by Republicans and Anti Fascists to his sidekick Frank Ryan, the other IRA nazi 'collaborator' that puzzles me. Russles statue is vandalised, and Ryan is revered as a hero of the Irish Republican cause.

thebman wrote: »

So should IBM.

http://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/

and Frank Ryan

Frank Ryan and Sean Russel were both on the payroll of the Nazi Mititary Intelligence organization, the 'Abwehr'. Their Abwehr codenames were "Richard 1" and "Richard 2". They were both instrumental in the Nazi plan to invade Ireland, and in securing weapons for the IRA. Sean Russell died of natural causes, in a German U-Boat (U-65) en route to Ireland from Germany with Frank Ryan, on August 14th 1940, and was buried at sea 100 miles of the west coast, wrapped in a Swastika Flag.

Frank Ryan returned to Germany in the same boat, and lived out his days there, dying in a Military Hospital of a stroke in June 1944. From August 1940 to June 1944 Ryan didn't appear to be anxious to return to Ireland, and didn't seem to have a problem taking nazi money during this time, while he was swanning around Germany at the Abwehr's expence. Its funny that the Irish Anti-Fascist Action website has this picture of him proudly in their gallery Section, as well as a picture of his gravestone in Glasnevin cemetry Dublin (in case some twat feels like vandalising it??).

dlofnep wrote: »

Hitler did attack Ireland BTW. He bombed the utter ****e out of Belfast. And bombed Dublin thereafter "by mistake". Although, it's been hypothesized that it was done in retaliation for the south offering aid to the north.

True, the Germans dropped bombs on Ireland 16 times. In most cases aircraft jetissoned bombs to get away from RAF fighters, or to save fuel on returning from bombing the North. However navigating a WW2 bomber was like doing a trigonometry exam in the dark with someone shooting at you, so navigational errors were a distinct possibility. A strong headwind from the North East would have caused huge problems for a navigator coming from Germany to bomb targets in Northern Ireland, causing him to fall short of Belfast and sight Dublin by mistake.

In short, if someone's going to vandalise Sean Russels statue, they ought to be vandalising Frank Ryans grave too, he was also up to his nose in dealings with the nazis.

rez

A strong headwind from the North East would have caused huge problems for a navigator coming from Germany to bomb targets in Northern Ireland, causing him to fall short of Belfast and sight Dublin by mistake.

Not so, Belfast, like cities in Britain, was under a full blackout during the war, whereas Dublin, presuming it wasn't a target, was lit up fully like any normal city.

The German's who bombed the north strand (minutes away from Mr. Russels statue ironically) knew exactly what they were doing.

On the subject of the statue itself I think it's a disgrace. Ok he wasn't an all out Nazi but he was happy to conspire with them to fight Britain who at the time were the only nation standing between us and a full on German invasion. Maybe he was too stupid to realise what he was doing, but I don't think you can say he was doing anything patriotic for this country by trying to allign us with one of the most despicable regiemes in history.

And the NGA are idiots too all their talk of how the new statue was valdal-proof and so high-tech was just asking for someone to come along and prove them wrong.

marcsignal

rez wrote: »

Not so, Belfast, like cities in Britain, was under a full blackout during the war, whereas Dublin, presuming it wasn't a target, was lit up fully like any normal city.

The German's who bombed the north strand (minutes away from Mr. Russels statue ironically) knew exactly what they were doing.

It's never been conclusively proved the Germans deliberately bombed Ireland. In fact, after the North Strand bombing, the German government paid substantial compensation to the Irish Government, because of the casualties caused, and the damage done to Dublin city.

There have been many thoeries, from the British bending directional radar beams used by the Germans for navigation, to a covert bombing by the British, because it was felt in some circles that Dublin lights were giving the Luftwaffe a good reference point for bombing Liverpool, and the thoery goes that the Brits were trying to teach us a lesson, but as I say, none of these things have ever been conclusively proved.

It is also not strictly true that Dublin was lit up like a Christmas tree, there was a partial blackout, to save elecrticity, as opposed to avoiding any threat from the air.


back on topic

Kold

Psh, people forget about all the good nazis.

marcsignal

Recommended Reading

it beats the hell out of hearsay...... :pac:

BlitzKrieg

seanrussell100 wrote: »

Proper Nazi's deserve proper Nazi monuments:

http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/ss136/seanthegerman/seanthenazi-web.jpg

http://rapidshare.com/files/261471742/seanthenazi-large.jpg

I glanced at the earlier today and just assumed it was some sort of photoshop joke.

But I passed the statue on the way home from work and P*ssed myself laughing when I saw it was actually what was put on the statue today, pretty much everyone on the bus saw it because the bus stops right in front of it.

Morlar

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

I glanced at the earlier today and just assumed it was some sort of photoshop joke.

But I passed the statue on the way home from work and P*ssed myself laughing when I saw it was actually what was put on the statue today, pretty much everyone on the bus saw it because the bus stops right in front of it.

I thought that was a bad photoshop too. Jebus these idiots need to grow up, or get arrested - whichever is easier.