Will MICHEAL OWEN be a success at Man Utd ?

Leiva

Would like to know if you think Micheal Owen will be a success at MAN UTD ?

Yes he will have a better supply and is a natural finisher but would love to know your input .

As a Liverpool supporter I would love to post all my feelings :mad: but will refrain so lets keep this thread clean and simple ..... Will he be a success YES or NO .


ADDED : When i ask , will he be a success I mean 20+ goals that will help MAN UTD retain the title , which i think they will need from him to replace the RONALDO and TEVEZ goal contributions .

mike65

Depends on whats defined as a success.

If starting every game is it then no, if doing well when he does play then yes maybe. Subject to fitness, terms and conditions, wind blowing in right direction.

Smegball

Well relative to his price (£0) and his wages (20k + pay as you play incentives) if he even contributes to the team with around 8-10 league goals I think it could be deemed as a success, although I get the feeling he will receive alot of unneccesary flak in the upcoming season, might take some of the heat off Berbatov :pac:

Kev_ps3

Its impossible to tell, but he will be a rotation player so as long as he does his stuff when Fergie tell him to then thats a success imo.

therecklessone

If he scores goals when he gets his chance, keeps fit, and is effective coming off the bench or when players are rested (as I believe is the role SAF envisages for him) then he will have had a successful season.

Of course, if United fail to retain the PL title and don't win the CL then no matter what he personally achieves, people will still think that United+Owen-Ronaldo-Tevez=no major title, and assume that he is the problem in that equation.

ROCKMAN

IF he stays fit ! Yes ,

DB10

No. He has been terrible for the last 3 years and has lost his pace.

Xavi6

I just can't wait to see what happens if he isn't.

Headshot

DB10 wrote: »

No. He has been terrible for the last 3 years and has lost his pace.

ill be doing a pighead on this

PHB

I'd imagine he'll play around 26 games or so, 10-12 starts in the league. I'd expect him to net about 10 goals. In which case, I'd call that a relative success.

Will he do enough to get his place in the English team? I'd say so.
Will he do enough to become first choice? I'd be very surprised.

I think he'll offer more than Tevez did last season though, so thats an improvement.

If only Valencia could do the same

Mitch Connor

I have no doubt he will do well enough for us.

His fitness problems are not as bad as people make out.

Last season, Own played in 28 Premier League games. Season previous to that, he played in 29 premier league games.

In comparison, last year Rooney played in 30 premier league games, 27 the season before. Torres played in 24 premier league games last year, and 33 the season before.

That is very much comparable. so in the last two seasons he has played a good percentage of games.

When it comes to scoring, Owen puts away more chances than either Torres or Rooney. If you give Owen chances, he will get you goals.

Owen won't be first choice, he hasn't been brought in to be imo, but he will certainly get us more goals than Tevez did last season.

Xavi6

PHB wrote: »

I think he'll offer more than Tevez did last season though, so thats an improvement.

Owen an improvement on Tevez? Come on out of that.

A 29 year old notorious crock in place of a 25 year old Argentinian international who wanted to play every week for the club?

Yep, massive improvement there.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

he will certainly get us more goals than Tevez did last season.

Of course he will because he's an out and out striker.

The Tevez bashing from United fans is laughable at this stage.

Guy:Incognito

PHB wrote: »

Will he do enough to get his place in the English team? I'd say so.

I thought he'd done enough over the past 2 years, but Cappello seems to dislike the guy.

They've been relatively stuck a couple of times with injuries and the like but he didnt get a call. There will be a few cries of big club bias I'd imagine.

Xavi6 wrote: »

The Tevez bashing from United fans is laughable at this stage.

Only thing funnier is City fans caring now cos he's joining them. :P

PHB

Did you watch Tevez last year?

Tevez as first choice for City will do well, just as he did for first choice for United. However he just couldn't deal with squad rotation, and his game suffered massively.

Owen can deal with squad rotation [as he did for Madrid], so should do better for United than Tevez did.
It doesn't necessarily mean that Owen is better than Tevez, it just means he'll be more effective for United because he's a better 3rd choice striker.

SteM

If he can better his league total of 8 last season then I'll be happy and consider him a 'success'. Personally I think it'll get 12-14 in the league next season. He has a lot to prove and a place in the England squad to play for.

Xavi6

PHB wrote: »

Did you watch Tevez last year?

I did indeed. Ran his bollox off whenever he played, even if he knew he was gonna be kicked off to the banch again the following week.

Tevez as first choice for City will do well, just as he did for first choice for United. However he just couldn't deal with squad rotation, and his game suffered massively.

I don't think there are many players who take being dropped the week after having a good game well.

Owen can deal with squad rotation [as he did for Madrid], so should do better for United than Tevez did.
It doesn't necessarily mean that Owen is better than Tevez, it just means he'll be more effective for United because he's a better 3rd choice striker.

But they're two completely different players. Might as well be comparing Vidic and Evra while talking about the centre half position. Owen is a shoulder-of-the-last-defender type player whereas Tevez likes to drop deep and play wide.

If Fergie had been sensible he would have kept Tevez to fill the void left by Ronaldo, because that's where he's more suited to play.

Mitch Connor

Xavi6 wrote: »

Of course he will because he's an out and out striker.

And if it is goals United want, then what is the problem with that? If Owen gets us more goals than Tevez did (and i'd expect him to double it in the league at least) then he will have done what he was brought to do.

el rabitos

Mitch Connor wrote: »

When it comes to scoring, Owen puts away more chances than either Torres or Rooney

is it not true that torres scored more goals in his first premiership season than owen has in any of his own previous seasons?

Mitch Connor

Xavi6 wrote: »

I did indeed. Ran his bollox off whenever he played, even if he knew he was gonna be kicked off to the banch again the following week.



I don't think there are many players who take being dropped the week after having a good game well.



But they're two completely different players. Might as well be comparing Vidic and Evra while talking about the centre half position. Owen is a shoulder-of-the-last-defender type player whereas Tevez likes to drop deep and play wide.

If Fergie had been sensible he would have kept Tevez to fill the void left by Ronaldo, because that's where he's more suited to play.

Rubbish - Tevez doesn't have the pace, the touch or passing ability to play on the wing, where Ronaldo played for most of last season (he played a more advanced role the previous season, but played as a more orthodox winger last season)

Tevez never could have replaced Ronaldo in the starting 11 imo. If he had stayed he would have been in the same rotational situation this season as he was last season, which he proved himself entirely unsuited to.

Headshot

Xavi6 wrote: »

Owen an improvement on Tevez? Come on out of that.

A 29 year old notorious crock in place of a 25 year old Argentinian international who wanted to play every week for the club?

Yep, massive improvement there.



Of course he will because he's an out and out striker.

The Tevez bashing from United fans is laughable at this stage.

you defending him already xavi,he hasnt signed for ye yet

PHB

Xavi6 wrote: »

I did indeed. Ran his bollox off whenever he played, even if he knew he was gonna be kicked off to the banch again the following week.

Running yourself into the ground is irrelevant. His job is to create and score goals primarily. If you do that, and also run yourself into the ground [like say Rooney], thats ok. If you don't, you're essentially a defender from the front.

I don't think there are many players who take being dropped the week after having a good game well.

The players that do make it at United.

But they're two completely different players. Might as well be comparing Vidic and Evra while talking about the centre half position. Owen is a shoulder-of-the-last-defender type player whereas Tevez likes to drop deep and play wide.

If Fergie had been sensible he would have kept Tevez to fill the void left by Ronaldo, because that's where he's more suited to play.

lol, its really not. It's just because he's not a great finisher that people shunt him to the wings. To compare him to Ronaldo is actually laughable.

He's like Rooney, infact very like Rooney in position. A withdrawn striker, a schemer etc. But he is a shadow of an attacker that he was when he was in Argentina. His first touch has gone to utter ****e. His second touch is a tackle. The amount of times he loses the ball in no way makes up for the amount of balls he wins back by chasing down.

I've no doubt that he'll do well for another club with a good run of games. But you can't get that at United, nobody does unless you're Rooney and Ronaldo, who warrant their place.

As such, he wasn't right for United, and that showed last year.

Fergie disagreed though, he wanted to keep him. But personally, as I've been saying all season, I'm happy he's gone.

Mitch Connor

@el rabitos

Owen scored 29% of his chances last season, a better rate than Torres, Rooney, Ronaldo, Anelka, Berbatov, Tevez and a host of others.

Your point is, erm, pointless. I didn't say Owen scored more goals, I said he put away more of his chances. If you are playing in a struggling team who are struggling to create chances, you will get less and score less.

Xavi6

Headshot wrote: »

you defending him already xavi,he hasnt signed for ye yet

Already pre-ordered the shirt :pac:

Guy:Incognito

Mitch Connor wrote: »

@el rabitos

Owen scored 29% of his chances last season, a better rate than Torres, Rooney, Ronaldo, Anelka, Berbatov, Tevez and a host of others.

Your point is, erm, pointless. I didn't say Owen scored more goals, I said he put away more of his chances. If you are playing in a struggling team who are struggling to create chances, you will get less and score less.

I'd say he got a lot less chances though. The more chances he'd get the lower that percentage will go.

Headshot

Stekelly wrote: »

I'd say he got a lot less chances though. The more chances he'd get the lower that percentage will go.

or higher

Xavi6

PHB wrote: »

Running yourself into the ground is irrelevant. His job is to create and score goals primarily. If you do that, and also run yourself into the ground [like say Rooney], thats ok. If you don't, you're essentially a defender from the front.

19 goals in 63 games is not bad for a 'withdrawn striker' who doesn't get many starts.

The players that do make it at United.

Ah give over with the superiority rubbish, players at United are no different to those at any other club. A professional footballer should want to be playing week in week out no matter what club he's at.

lol, its really not. It's just because he's not a great finisher that people shunt him to the wings. To compare him to Ronaldo is actually laughable.

Where was this comparison?

I said Tevez could fill the role of Ronaldo. Never said he'd do it as well, but you seemed to have settled ok for Valencia who isn't a patch on Tevez.

He's like Rooney, infact very like Rooney in position. A withdrawn striker, a schemer etc. But he is a shadow of an attacker that he was when he was in Argentina. His first touch has gone to utter ****e. His second touch is a tackle. The amount of times he loses the ball in no way makes up for the amount of balls he wins back by chasing down.

Good lord, you paint him like he's the new Iain Dowie.

Guy:Incognito

Headshot wrote: »

or higher

Seriously doubt it. Unless we are trying to agree that Owen is the best striker in the world?:)


I think you lot need to remember what peoples (most likely including yourselves) opinions were of him 12 months ago or even 3 months ago.

Mitch Connor

Xavi6 wrote: »

I said Tevez could fill the role of Ronaldo. Never said he'd do it as well, but you seemed to have settled ok for Valencia who isn't a patch on Tevez.

I am certain that Valencia is a better winger than Tevez would be.

mike65

Owen was over the hill and now he's great Football fans eh?

PHB

Who gives a **** how good their are objectively?

Will Valencia be better on the wing than Tevez? Yes.
Will Owen be a better 3rd choice striker than Tevez? Yes.

As such,

I think he'll offer more than Tevez did last season though, so thats an improvement.

Xavi6

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I am certain that Valencia is a better winger than Tevez would be.

Winger yes, in a conventional 4-4-2 formation, but as part of a 3 man striker force? I don't think so.

Owen is potentially a very shrewd signing, but losing Tevez was a mistake imo.

Mitch Connor

mike65 wrote: »

Owen was over the hill and now he's great Football fans eh?

I do think he has lost some of his pace, which is what made him special - he is not the same player he was.

However, there is a difference between saying a player is great, and saying a player could do great for us.

Owen is still a very good finisher imo, if we create chances for him, he will get us goals, and he offers something very different to Rooney, Berbatov and the departed Tevez. I don't think he is as special a player as he used to be, but I do genuinely think he can do very well for us as 3rd choice striker, without completely blocking Kiko and Welbeck from chances in the first team.

I think Owen will be a success in the role he has been signed for.

Theresalwaysone

Stekelly wrote: »

I'd say he got a lot less chances though. The more chances he'd get the lower that percentage will go.

how do you figure this? I mean I can see what you are saying but there is no way its a certainty.

Mitch Connor

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

how do you figure this? I mean I can see what you are saying but there is no way its a certainty.

I do reckon the percentage would go down with more chances. However, it would need to be almost 3 times less to be even equal with Tevez, who has an 11% conversion rate in comparisons with the 29% Owen had.

Pro. F

Jaysus there's been some nonsence posted on this thread (mostly by Xavi).

Tevez was sh!te for us as a third choice striker and i think Ferguson was totally mistaken to try and sign him at the end. It's true what PHB says, his second touch was pretty much a tackle towards the end of the season, he had become that bad. (although i actually thought he did alright in the CL Final). Loads of people in the united thread, myself included, have been saying to let him go at the end of his loan for many months. He needs regular first team football but we don't need him in our first team, it's that simple.

Owen is an interesting one because he has almost no physical attributes at this stage. No pace, and he was never strong nor big obviously. If he suffers from a few injuries throughout the season he may well also lack stamina when he does play. He will be completely relying on his positioning and finishing. I don't know if he'll be able to contribute much. 15 goals in all comps and a positive influence on the dressing room and he will have been a Edit: massive improvement on Tevez.

Xavi6

Pro. F wrote: »

Jaysus there's been some nonsence posted on this thread (mostly by Xavi).

Meh, myself and Fergie just rate Tevez higher than the average United fan.

Bubs101

Did Owen take Des' patented plane to England or something because 2 months ago averyone thought he was useless as the marquee player of a team that got relegated. Now he's top class again? BS. He's never going to play enough games to get 20 goals and even if he did he couldn't. Nobody got that this year and anybody who came close was alot better than Owen

PHB

I think the only person who has even suggested he'd get 20 goals a season was the op. Everyone else is estimating around 8-14, which is fairly gettable.

Considering Tevez got a grand total of 5, yes count them, 5, I'm fairly confident Owen will be an improvement on that.

I also expect Tevez to get more than 5 goals next season, but I just don't think he'd have done much better at United. For City, or whoever, starting week in week out, I'd say he'll hit around 14ish.

Pro. F

Xavi6 wrote: »

Meh, myself and Fergie just rate Tevez higher than the average United fan.

lol, touche

i honestly think it would have been a massive mistake to spend that money on him. The fact is Fergie does make the odd howler in the transfer market.
I wonder if Ferguson was calling Tevez's bluff, after all his sh!te hawking in the press, to show him up as the self serving malcontent he is.

Mr Alan

PHB wrote: »

Owen can deal with squad rotation [as he did for Madrid], so should do better for United than Tevez did.

Owen moaned constantly in the media when he was being rotated at madrid, far more than Tevez did iirc.

PHB wrote: »

Running yourself into the ground is irrelevant. His job is to create and score goals primarily. If you do that, and also run yourself into the ground [like say Rooney], thats ok. If you don't, you're essentially a defender from the front.

how do you think Rooney would react to be dropped constantly like Tevez? I think his form would suffer, he'd look for a move and moan in the press, in fact i have no doubt.

The season before last, when Rooney & Tevez were first choice, Tevez scored more & created more than Wayne did. You're talking nonsense.

There should be an option C in the poll, "no matter what he does, Utd fans will claim he was a great buy & Tevez was ****"

*oh and people saying 12-15 goals for Owen? not so sure, the highest he ever got in the league was 19 goals, when he was young, still had his pace & was first choice.

JPA

United fans seem to think Tevez should have maintained his performances from his first season despite being dropped and rotated as well as the uncertainty about his future affecting him.

Can't some things be questioned? No?

PHB

lol, I love the idolisation of Tevez, its hilarious.

I don't want any players who are happy to sit on the bench. I do however want players who when they step into the team, they take their chances.

The idea that Tevez was dropped constantly after he scored is just bull****.

Last year he started 18 games, and made 11 sub appearances. He scored 5 times and got 3 assists.

After scoring against Liverpool, he started the next United game.
After scoring against Stoke, he started the next United game.
After scoring against WBA, he started the next game.
After scoring against City, he didnt start the next game.
After scoring against Wigan, he started the next game.

He started 4/5 times after he scored. His confidence wasn't ruined because he was dropped every time he did well. He was played when he did well. However when he didn't, he was subbed.

Tevez did not create more in 2007/2008
Stats:
Rooney: 12 goals 13 assists
Tevez: 14 goals 7 assists

Mitch Connor

JPA wrote: »

United fans seem to think Tevez should have maintained his performances from his first season despite being dropped and rotated as well as the uncertainty about his future affecting him.

Can't some things be questioned? No?

he would have been dropped and rotated just as much this coming season - so unless his poor form was entirely down to the uncertainty over his future than there likely would have been form issues this season too.

Mr Alan

PHB wrote: »

Tevez did not create more in 2007/2008
Stats:
Rooney: 12 goals 13 assists
Tevez: 14 goals 7 assists

ok, so there was **** all in it, and it was Tevez's first season at the club. fair enough. my point remains the same (thanks for digging up the stats).

you said that Tevez was all industry & no end product, unlike Rooney.

Mitch Connor

Mr Alan wrote: »

ok, so there was **** all in it, and it was Tevez's first season at the club. fair enough. my point remains the same (thanks for digging up the stats).

you said that Tevez was all industry & no end product, unlike Rooney.

Their stats may be similar, but Rooney is and always has been extremely improtant to the tempo and shape of United. Rooney is and was far more important to the overall style and performance of United.

PHB

Last season he was all industry and no in product. He wasn't able to deal with rotation. He needed to be. He doesnt offer anywhere near as much as Rooney in terms of general play, let alone in terms of end product. As such, he's going to be competing for 2nd choice striker. He can't seem to do that, so sadly its bye bye, thanks for the memories.

I've no doubt Tevez will do well at City. He will probably regain his form for United in the first season. That doesn't mean he shoulda stayed at United. It's the right move for us and probably the right move for him. We'll get better and so will he.

Mr Alan

easy to say that Mitch.

But i think its fair to say Utd play suffered big time last season (when Tevez was dropped) as opposed to the season before when Utd played sensational stuff (when Tevez was playing).

Co-incidence?

Mitch Connor

Mr Alan wrote: »

easy to say that Mitch.

But i think its fair to say Utd play suffered big time last season (when Tevez was dropped) as opposed to the season before when Utd played sensational stuff (when Tevez was playing).

Co-incidence?

We didn't play great last season, whether Tevez started or not. We were very good going forward in 07/08 - and not so much last season - do I think that is entirely down to Tevez....no. Biggest reason, IMO, was Ronaldo not doing as well which ment we suffered due to the fact the team was set up in 07/08 to get the best out of Ronaldo.

D.S.

This all boils down to the questions that were asked when Tevez first signed for United..could United do well with both Tevez and Rooney in the same team....first season Tevez did v well..but Ronaldo carried the can for United as Rooney and Tevez didn't score enough goals...one season on Tevez and Rooney still struggle to get goals and Tevez's form drops and he gets less games..

The answer for me here is that Tevez and Rooney play OK together but don't score enough goals as a partnership. Tevez will move on and do v well for City or for whoever he signs with. United playing with a new foremation and with the right foil for Rooney will also do better without Tevez.

A great player who didn't work out - simple as.

Owen will do v well for United and better than Tevez simply as he will score more goals. We don't need another Rooney like workhorse..just someone who will convert more chances than not..

MementoMori

To get things back more on-topic

08/09 - 32 Games 10 Goals 2239 mins (just under 25 full games)
07/08 - 33 Games 13 Goals 2529 mins (just over 28 full games)
06/07 - 3 Games 0 Goals 247 mins (just under 3 full games)
05/06 - 11 Games 7 Goals 884 mins (just under 10 full games)

79 Games 30 Goals 5899 mins (just about 65 and a half full games)

His injury record at Newcastle was as follows

*31 December 2005, broke a metatarsal bone in his foot - underwent surgery to place a pin in the bone, to help speed the healing process. He was expected to be out of action until late March, but the healing process did not go as hoped and on 24 March he underwent a second, minor, operation.

*20 June 2006, A damaged anterior cruciate ligament in his right knee, sustained in the first minute of the group match against Sweden at the 2006 World Cup, kept Owen out of regular football for nearly a year, until April 2007Owen underwent successful reconstruction surgery, carried out by Dr. Richard Steadman, on 6 September 2006.

*13 May 2007, Owen was stretchered off an hour into Newcastle's game with Watford, suffering concussion after colliding with team-mate Matty Pattison.

*17 July 2007, he scored for Newcastle in a pre-season friendly against Hartlepool. Several days later, Owen picked up a thigh injury in training. Out for a month.

*25 September 2007, Operation for a double hernia and would likely be out of action for at least a month. On 7 October 2007 Michael Owen returned with a goal eight days after groin surgery to seal Newcastle's win against Everton.

*Owen missed all of the pre season matches and training of the 2008-9 season due to a bout of Mumps, which also kept him out of the international friendlies with the USA and Trinidad & Tobago in May 2008. He also suffered a calf strain during the summer months which kept him out of the opening game of the season against Manchester United at Old Trafford.

*30 January 2009 - Newcastle forward Michael Owen has been ruled out for up to six weeks with ankle ligament damage.

From this it does seem that anytime he does pick up an injury it does take longer than average to get back to fitness.

So much depends on whether or not he stays fit, which is something that no-one can predict.

Kess73

I guess to be a success will not so much depend on how many goals he scores, but on how many goals he scores that change the game.


Personally speaking if he scored ten goals in the league, then he would be a success for them. People need to remember that Owen was never a 20 league goal a season player. His best ever season for Liverpool saw him get 19 league goals.


I do think he will be a relative success for Man U, but whether that will be enough to replace the players that have left so far remains to be seen, and depends, imho, on whether or not Utd strengthen their midfield.