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Irish players are just not cutting it.

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    #62
    Tight Ted
    Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭Tight Ted


    Personally I blame the GAA. When we have such massive resources going into our national game, of course other games are going to fall behind.

    That is why we have Henry Shefflins and Colin Coopers rather than Phil Iveys and Tom Dwans.

    End of discussion.


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    #63
    NickyOD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,124 ✭✭✭NickyOD


    doke wrote: »
    I think both are needed. Some of the best online MTTers are absolutely useless live.

    Who are they?


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    #64
    shanethemofo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭shanethemofo


    NickyOD wrote: »
    Who are they?

    That Peter Eastgate guy... Heard he's useless


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    #65
    DrJFF
    Registered Users Posts: 515 ✭✭✭DrJFF


    NickyOD wrote: »
    Who are they?

    Shaun Deeb and Chris Moorman are two who spring to mind who crush online but can't adjust to live and are both down a good cunk live


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    #66
    NickyOD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,124 ✭✭✭NickyOD


    DrJFF wrote: »
    Shaun Deeb and Chris Moorman are two who spring to mind who crush online but can't adjust to live and are both down a good cunk live

    Shaun Deeb cashed in five WSOP events this year, not that that says a whole lot about how he's run overall though. Maybe it's something to do with not being able to raise to amounts like $11,271 in a live tournament. :)

    I'm sure there are plenty of players who play a lot online but do poorly live because they don't have the patience for it, but if I'm playing a live tournament I'm still going to want to play against people who play more live than an online, because I'd expect an online reg to be somewhat competent in terms of hand selection and bet size and I'd expect a live regular to be pretty clueless.


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    #67
    TommyGunne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,771 ✭✭✭TommyGunne


    DrJFF wrote: »
    Shaun Deeb and Chris Moorman are two who spring to mind who crush online but can't adjust to live and are both down a good cunk live

    They're sample size will be inconsequential. If you a group of 100 very successful online MTTers, how many would you expect to be down significantly over 100 tournies? Look at it the other way around and I think you will find that the good online MTTers are actually more successful live than online. You're just looking at it arseways imo! ;)


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    #68
    The C Kid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭The C Kid


    DrJFF wrote: »
    Shaun Deeb and Chris Moorman are two who spring to mind who crush online but can't adjust to live and are both down a good cunk live

    Moorman's not even the best player in his family.

    I mean look at his Hendon mob.

    http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=104777


    And then his Dad's


    http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=126194

    I'm pretty sure this is undeniable evidence that Moorman Snr >>>> Moorman Jnr at any kind of poker.


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    #69
    DrJFF
    Registered Users Posts: 515 ✭✭✭DrJFF


    NickyOD wrote: »
    Shaun Deeb cashed in five WSOP events this year, not that that says a whole lot about how he's run overall though. Maybe it's something to do with not being able to raise to amounts like $11,271 in a live tournament. :)

    I'm sure there are plenty of players who play a lot online but do poorly live because they don't have the patience for it, but if I'm playing a live tournament I'm still going to want to play against people who play more live than an online, because I'd expect an online reg to be somewhat competent in terms of hand selection and bet size and I'd expect a live regular to be pretty clueless.
    TommyGunne wrote: »
    They're sample size will be inconsequential. If you a group of 100 very successful online MTTers, how many would you expect to be down significantly over 100 tournies? Look at it the other way around and I think you will find that the good online MTTers are actually more successful live than online. You're just looking at it arseways imo! ;)


    i agree wit both of you guys that there sample sizes are small etc, and on the general scale of things if you weigh up a 100live pro's vs 100online pro's for MTT's over the same sample size i know who i'd have my money on ;)


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    #70
    phantom_lord
    Registered Users Posts: 10,894 ✭✭✭✭phantom_lord


    can i take that bet?


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    #71
    TommyGunne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,771 ✭✭✭TommyGunne


    phantom_lord wrote: »
    can i take that bet?

    He didn't even say what side he would bet! Pure degeneracy offering to take the other side before he says which it is.


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    #72
    nVid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 217 ✭✭nVid


    I'd say its due to the aggro in the Irish, cant stop sticking it in :eek:


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    #73
    We
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 284 ✭✭We


    We're just not that good at flipping coins then, I guess, because thats what getting far in these tournies basically come down to.. :F


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    #74
    zuroph
    Registered Users Posts: 11,097 ✭✭✭✭zuroph


    Irish Poker players post in the BBV. Not a chance of going deep with something like that effecting your EV.


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    #75
    percy007
    Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭percy007


    nVid wrote: »
    I'd say its due to the aggro in the Irish, cant stop sticking it in :eek:

    Leave Hawkeye out of it


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    #76
    aodea
    Registered Users Posts: 730 ✭✭✭aodea


    As a whole ireland is not a strong poker naion. however why we dont perform is subject to many things. ireland is a small nation and like sport it is very hard for us to compete with large nations. Achievments will happen ireland winning an olympic gold = marty winning a braclet. We will have success from time to time. A player in ireland who is very good may not be top notch on a world scene just as an irish national champion sprinter is no usian bolt but he is still quick as hell.

    player wise overall we are below avergae on a world scene just my guess. lots of nations have differnt styles and severl are bad for certain reasons. I would say ireland has certain players in top 10-15% but none in top 5%.

    How to improve this is have players playing the best players all the time but Irish have to travel to play anything big and this will straight away have them at a disadvantage. When an irish person gets a big score it shud be celebrated just as when ireland wins anything on a world stage. Doherty in the snooker comes to mind.


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    #77
    a-k-47
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,298 ✭✭✭a-k-47


    rory brennan

    martin silke

    who are these two guys, only two irish in the top 300 2009 money list. Post here?


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    #78
    aodea
    Registered Users Posts: 730 ✭✭✭aodea


    a-k-47 wrote: »
    rory brennan

    martin silke

    who are these two guys, only two irish in the top 300 2009 money list. Post here?

    Not arguing there good but there results are all uk based and not really on a world stage. There both quality players from what i have seen and read but would have many other picks ahead of them in a world series or ept or wpt.


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    #79
    skippy15
    Registered Users Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭skippy15


    ye agree irish may not hit it on world stage enough times at present- but %playing to wins needs better reflection-
    But in Irish tournamnets eg: irish open our % participation should weild a ratio to final table finishes... and if we can't measure up here the initial point stands. We don't measure up at present....but players are improving and need keep finiding ways to improve their game....poker education?


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    #80
    cardshark202
    Registered Users Posts: 5,434 ✭✭✭cardshark202


    Before this thread starts getting out of hand again:

    Poker is not an olympic sport. Repeat, it is NOT and olympic sport.


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    #81
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,303 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    dagunman wrote: »

    The best thing that could happen to Iirsh poker is some casino regulation by the government that will leave us with 1 casino in our major cities.

    This.
    but, it's unlikely to happy soon.
    doke wrote: »
    It's been documented that the Scandis made rapid strides because groups of them formed collective think tanks that came up with and shared original ideas on strategies and approaches. With a small pool of top class players, Ireland could benefit from a similar approach but of course it's a double-edged sword when the guy you share your ideas with today could be the guy you end up having to play headsup next week back home.
    .
    Surely the Pros outweigh the Cons in that situation


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    #82
    dannydiamond
    Registered Users Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭dannydiamond


    aodea wrote: »
    but none in top 5%.

    So you think that out of millions of poker players the world over,there isn't one in the top 5% of players?

    Are you serious?


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    #83
    Enzo Scifo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 139 ✭✭Enzo Scifo


    cardshark202 wrote: »
    Before this thread starts getting out of hand again:

    Poker is not an olympic sport. Repeat, it is NOT and olympic sport.

    Not yet but if Womens Boxing gets in next month than anything is possible :rolleyes:


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    #84
    Grafter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 938 ✭✭✭Grafter


    I hate calling out eejits, BUT anyone with the sense to check the WSOP website before posting on this thread would have found that (before main event) Ireland is something like 15th in the world this year which is great both in per capita and per representative terms (and the cost of going to wsop shouldn't be ignored as the Irish recession is debatably worse than some other places).

    http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/stats/


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    #85
    Jesus Wept
    Registered Users Posts: 25,243 ✭✭✭✭Jesus Wept


    Grafter wrote: »

    http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/stats/

    Do these stats suggest there were only 34 irish entrants in events this year, or am I reading it incorrectly?


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    #86
    nicnicnic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,724 ✭✭✭nicnicnic


    I wouldnt think there was more then 30-35 Irish players in the main event


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    #87
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 38,300 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    nicnicnic wrote: »
    I wouldnt think there was more then 30-35 Irish players in the main event
    Which means that per head of the population we had more than the UK, Sweden, Holland, Italy, Germany, France and pretty much all the rest with only Finland on a par with us and Denmark ahead of us.


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    #88
    nicnicnic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,724 ✭✭✭nicnicnic


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Which means that per head of the population we had more than the UK, Sweden, Holland, Italy, Germany, France and pretty much all the rest with only Finland on a par with us and Denmark ahead of us.

    eight out of ten cats perfer wiskers


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    #89
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,303 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    The-Rigger wrote: »
    Do these stats suggest there were only 34 irish entrants in events this year, or am I reading it incorrectly?

    Unknown 1,246 0 149 $1,732,119

    I have no idea if there was but if there was actually more irish there, then they could be listed as part of the unknown section
    eagle eye wrote: »
    Which means that per head of the population we had more than the UK, Sweden, Holland, Italy, Germany, France and pretty much all the rest with only Finland on a par with us and Denmark ahead of us.
    What point are you trying to make here? The number that went to the world series has no reflection on how they got on. Just means that we have a higher rate of degenerates than the UK and we are on par with Finland

    Who cares about the scandies anyway. We should's aim to be like Slovenia. They maintained a 100% cash rate.
    Or what about Monaco, players from monaco won over 60k per head


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    #90
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 38,300 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Mellor wrote: »
    Unknown 1,246 0 149 $1,732,119

    I have no idea if there was but if there was actually more irish there, then they could be listed as part of the unknown section


    What point are you trying to make here? The number that went to the world series has no reflection on how they got on. Just means that we have a higher rate of degenerates than the UK and we are on par with Finland

    Who cares about the scandies anyway. We should's aim to be like Slovenia. They did maintain a 100% cash rate.
    Or what about Monaco, an average player from monaco won over 60k
    No point, just pointing out that statistic.


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    #91
    aodea
    Registered Users Posts: 730 ✭✭✭aodea


    dannydiamond wrote: »
    So you think that out of millions of poker players the world over,there isn't one in the top 5% of players?

    Are you serious?

    how many poker players are profitable if there is millions or 100s of thousands then yes we do. maybe one or two but thats it at a push.


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