Firm involved in a dispute would 'keep manners on the Paddies'

cabinteelytom

'The Paddy is the best man in the world when he goes abroad to work but he's a different man at home', says Martin Sheahan whose firm has one tenth of it's staff on strike. He also confirms that he had 'hired non-nationals to keep manners on the Paddies'. See Irish Times Friday 10; www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0710/1224250387532.html

Comment: Is this an acceptable way to talk about our co-nationals; or about anyone? Will the Equality Commission give us a lead to what our attitude should be to such language?

Personally, if I was a businessman, I would not speak in such contemptuous terms about my work-force, or about my customers; fearing both would be gone ASAP.

Does he have a point-about the manners?

ArseBurger

I complete agree with him on the work ethics and reliability of Irish versus other nationalities in Ireland.

I've hired all race and creed at grad and professional level. Same pay, same job - irrelevant of nationality.

At both levels I can honestly say that the Irish were, generally, begrudgers with a false sense of entitlement who would slack off without a thought. Hangovers defined 'sick leave'. The other nationalities put them to shame.

donkey balls

At both levels I can honestly say that the Irish were, generally, begrudgers with a false sense of entitlement who would slack off without a thought. Hangovers defined 'sick leave'. The other nationalities put them to shame.

my experince was the opposit with foreign nationals they would come in smelling of boose throw sickies.

twice i found empty cans of beer in the trucks they were driving along with rubbish stuffed down the back of seats and the smell of empty milk cartons during the summer months make you vomit.

sparklepants

donkey balls wrote: »

my experince was the opposit with foreign nationals they would come in smelling of boose throw sickies.

How did they manage to come in smelling of booze if they were throwing a sickie??

the smell of empty milk cartons during the summer months make you vomit.

Yeah, I hate the way foreigners come over here and drink all our milk.

donkey balls

there was one guy in particular who would throw a sickie nearly every monday morning,while another guy would come in smelling of booze.

as for them drinking milk i dont have a problem its what they do with the carton afterwards. i noticed you didnt high light my piont of finding empty beer cans in the truck how come?

cabinteelytom

In that marvellously unaware way of those making huge profits for providing relatively simple, universely-needed, services ( which challenged chaps in councils used to provide) a spokesman for the Irish Waste Management Association ( the voice of the private operators in the waste sector) confided to the Independent in 2007 his concern that; 'the playing pitch needs to be levelled."At present you have a situation where the private sector has to charge VAT at 13.5% to the general public whereas local authorities do not.' www.independent.ie/business/irish/where-theres-muck-theres-brass-1084346.html
All very self-serving.

That concern for a 'level playing field' is not shared by all the private operators in the waste business. 'Mr Binman' has refused to recognise or negotiate with the Siptu union !; which does not put him on the same level as his competitors, and those local authorities, who do.

But even within Mr Binman's work-force, there is not a level playing field. The Irish Times again; 'All of the workers on strike had been on different rates of pay..', and the inequalities didn't end there; the strikers produced for the press four sample letters with different rates of wage cut- though all in a range between 35 and 49%.

Equal pay for equal work, is another reason why the Equality Commission should take a look at Mr Sheahan's business practice.

donkey balls

Equal pay for equal work, is another reason why the Equality Commission should take a look at Mr Sheahan's business practice.

agree 100% there is a lot this happening within the transport industry long before the curent economic conditions arrived.

ArseBurger

donkey balls wrote: »

my experince was the opposit with foreign nationals they would come in smelling of boose throw sickies.

twice i found empty cans of beer in the trucks they were driving along with rubbish stuffed down the back of seats and the smell of empty milk cartons during the summer months make you vomit.

Not so in my experience in two separate companies.

In each company I had HR run an analysis of sick and personal leave showing percentages of Friday and Monday short notice leave. Irish employees were right on top of the list. In fact, my non Irish employees took little or no sick leave under three consecutive days at all. All of which were accompanied by valid medical certificates. Trying to get a cert from an Irish employee was like trying to get blood out of a stone.

Invariably the Irish members of the team were hungover on Friday and Monday mornings. Sometimes actually drunk. I've had to send people home in the past.

donkey balls

arseburger we could go on about who the better workers are for hours on end.

what needs to be addressed is scumbag employers paying diferent rates of pay according to where your from.

this was happening in a company i worked for i wasnt aware untill we were taking over by another company who went about getting things right i.e everyone got paid the same salary.

these companies should be named & shamed i know one company based in wexford where all the drivers are foreign& payed very bad

ArseBurger

donkey balls wrote: »

arseburger we could go on about who the better workers are for hours on end.

what needs to be addressed is scumbag employers paying diferent rates of pay according to where your from.

this was happening in a company i worked for i wasnt aware untill we were taking over by another company who went about getting things right i.e everyone got paid the same salary.

these companies should be named & shamed i know one company based in wexford where all the drivers are foreign& payed very bad

Sure we could. And I agree that pay should be equal for the work done irrelevant of who you are as long as you're doing your job.

However, this thread was started around keeping manners on the Paddies. Hence the title - I would assume...

SWL

ArseBurger wrote: »

I complete agree with him on the work ethics and reliability of Irish versus other nationalities in Ireland.

I've hired all race and creed at grad and professional level. Same pay, same job - irrelevant of nationality.

At both levels I can honestly say that the Irish were, generally, begrudgers with a false sense of entitlement who would slack off without a thought. Hangovers defined 'sick leave'. The other nationalities put them to shame.

I complete disagree I have found non national a lot worse than Irish people, thief, drinking, refusing point blank to carry out work they were employed to do .e.g. my half brother had a trucking company and the day a shipment needed to go to the UK they would say there wouldn’t do it unbelievable stuff, won’t work with other nationalities e.g. polish and Lithuanian. Fights and funnily the sense of entailment actually came from the polish workers. He is a different type of business now and working for himself and would be slow to hire a non national with a reference or recommendation.

Ireland has the dregs of Eastern Europe working here, I know because I am also a non national, the same would apply to Irish people taking sick days although if that was happening why were they disciplined

rasper

Its an arrogant way to speak of the Irish and also the non nationals, this kind of talk to a newspaper is appaling and beggars belief really. This kind of talk encourages racism and should be treated that way.
Does he forget that the vast majority are also these paddies , I for one have been with Mr Binman for well over a year now in Waterford but am watching the situation intently as I will change as I hope others will too.

cabinteelytom

This is becoming a strike for union recognition.
At stake is; whether an important industry, to whose profits everyone in the country contributes, which has health and quality-of-life consequences for us all, remains a wild west of cowboy operators, or; acquires civicly responsible recruitment, health and safety [of workers] and pay negotiation policies.
All of which require a valid role for credible worker representation ie a 'trade union' or equivalent.

moot

Just because he doesn't want to recognise unions doesn't make him a cowboy operator. Intel don't recognise unions and yet nobody describes them as cowboys.

And why should there be equal pay for equal work?
What if two people are doing the same job, but one clearly has development potential and could progress to a more senior poistion in the company - Is it not ok to pay the more promising worker more, based on my opinion as an employer, so I retain him.

Or what if two people are doing the same work, but one always does the bare minimum, but the other always goes the extra mile? In union shops they are both paid the same and pretty soon anyone going the extra mile is laughed at by their peers, or worse, coerced into not going the extra mile, so they don't show up the slackers. Soon the lowest common denominator becomes the producitivity norm.

Although, I agree discriminating against someone on the basis of nationality alone is wrong.

cabinteelytom

moot wrote: »

... always goes the extra mile? In union shops they are both paid the same and pretty soon anyone going the extra mile is laughed at by their peers, or worse, coerced into not going the extra mile, so they don't show up the slackers. Soon the lowest common denominator becomes the producitivity norm.

That is a very interesting point of view.
Looking for the flaw, I'm thinking; the employee who goes the extra mile is more often laughed at by his peers,... and exploited by his employer.
Perhaps even in a union shop an accurately informed, fair employer could ADD a 'pleasant attitude at work' bonus if he chose.
Remember Arfur Daley [of Minder ]; In life you don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate. I have felt that was a useful lesson from a sit-com.

It is strange that we are almost having to refight the arguments our society thought were settled in Victorian times; one of which was, as a counter to the price of labour being set by supply and demand (almost always to the great disadvantage of the workers eg picture the conditions of the Irish famine), that workers were eventually permitted to sell their labour through cartels (trade unions).

A difference with Intel might be; that rubbish collection in Ireland is not subject to globalisation pressures in a find-your-own-level international marketplace- it's actually a very protected industry, which everyone is legally obliged to use, and in which the customer has usually very little and ,fast shrinking, choice.

moot

cabinteelytom wrote: »

the employee who goes the extra mile is more often laughed at by his peers,... and exploited by his employer.

I'm not talking about exploitation (e.g. unions did a fine job in highlighting the GAMA situation whre Turkish contractors were paid less than minimum wage), just that some workers are better than others - is the worker who puts the bin back neatly where I left it being exploited Vs. the one who just leaves it wherever?

Your Victorian perspective is interesting, I would contend that as far as I can see the unions have won and got everything they want, but like soldiers after a war, they just can't stop fighting. (GAMA excepted). Companies with unions keep getting squeezed. They react by completely shutting down a union shop and opening a completely non-union one. (If anyone is familiar with Coke moving from Drogheda to Wexford can they substantiate this example for me). All start-ups are ardently anti-union, over time the proportion of unionised workers is dropping. Unions will eventually be unimportant for most employers and only relevant to genuine cases of exploitation.

cabinteelytom

My real fear is; could Mr Sheahan be right? Has the experience of being knocked about by 'de Brudders' and sitting in front of a wii all day been enough to give Irish youth (and older) the civility, politeness, willingness and obediance to be any use to an employer? Are we preparing our young people properly, for real life? Is it even on anyone's agenda? Could we have some research done into the level of manners in the unemployed?
There are now, I think, 415,000 unemployed, in Ireland. Are most of them going to stay unemployed because they lack the manners to talk their way into a job, or keep one when they get there?
The IDA is furiously spending money ( 216 million euros last year) persuading inward investors to set up in Ireland. How many of our unemployed will these companies take on, if all they can see are surly, truculent, unhelpful, damaged brats?
I'm trying to be serious. Music-hall acts who announce that they employ a few foreigners 'to keep manners on the Paddies', are not.
Is it the job of the FAS to impart basic manners to our unemployed? Dole for attending finishing school? Any takers?