News item on epidurals

Chuchu

Morning all... anybody see this?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8147179.stm

I read it somewhere in the papers yesterday... my Dad showed it to me with a big funny grin in his face!!
It's interesting but I'd love to have others' feedback esp those who have given birth before... I am in month 8 now with my first so can't really give an opinion yet, I do find it funny (and unfortunate for him!) that the midwife presenting these findings is a man though!!
I'd love to go without an epi and manage with gas etc but everyone and eveyone's experience is so different, all options should be available and at the ready no? Also I was pleasantly surprised that the epi stats for UK were so low (even though they have increased significantly since 1989) as I have been laughed at when saying I'd like to manage without one
Any thoughts...

Moonbeam

I didn't have one,yes it is painful but it is not ao bad and you know you have your baby at the end.
Epidurals can have side affects too,no way I wanted one unless medical intervention was a necessity.

gowayouttadat

Hey Chuchu, like you I'm in month 8 on my first and the only decision I've made is that I'm not making any decision until the day. I've zero idea what to expect so I've no idea if I'll be able to handle it or not.

In my case the anesathist has given the epi a 25% chance of being successful because of back problems so I've had to get used to the idea of not having one anyway. I'm gonna go with the flow and see what happens. I'm sure I'll survive without one, loads of people do so it's not the end of the world.

*this might be completely naive thinking from someone who hasn't gone through it before though*

littlebug

I think that going in with a "wait and see on the day" approach is best. Thankfully both mine were fast so I managed with just gas and air with the first (5 hrs) and nothing with the second (2.5hrs). BUT I couldn't have gone much longer without something in either case. I say see how you get on and keep your options open. I know people who were disappointed in themselves when they had the epi having planned not to. You really can't tell how it's going to go in terms of pain/ duration so an open mind going in is best.

January

Going in with an open mind is definitely the best option. It's what I done. I was induced and managed with gas and air for a while but contractions were being made more painful by the syntocin drip (according to midwife anyway that's why they were so strong) so had the epidural. I ended up needing an emergency section under general anesthetic though so it was only a little while of relief from the contractions!!!

Atwork

My wife had our first born 9 months ago and all I can say is the epidural is the best thing ever. She tried the gas and air but felt a little sick, some women dont. She was enduced and tryed the gas for a while, then had the epidural. I could see all the contractions on the monitor etc and then 8 hours later a 9lb girl arrived. Was all nice and calm.

Kimono-Girl

I had our first daughter last Monday week, i did it on gas and air only although i was screaming for more pain relief at some points according to my OH im glad i didnt have the epidural, i was in labour all sunday but the pain was only for the last 3 hours she was born in 2.5 hours. the gas made me feel sick at first but that subsided after awhile with me drinking water. i was up and about a few hours later and only mildly unconfortable afterwards where if i had an epidural i would still have been bed ridden... the reason i was so against the epidural is a: im quesy about needles going near my spine, and b: i heard the forceps/vacume delivery causes brusing around the baby's head which i dont agree with. so i went with gas and air and i would choose it again.

Chuchu

Thanks for all the replies... all very interesting... and BIG CONGRATS to you Candlelover... I rememebr seeing a post by you the other week about false labour, mustn't have been that false after all!! Hope you're doing well and fair play re the gas and air... did it just make you feel sick or did you actually have to puke (sorry tmi I know!!) I'm gonna have an open mind and hope for the best, hate throwing up though so that would freak me out, mind you I'll be freaked one way or the other I suppose!

Kimono-Girl

Chuchu wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies... all very interesting... and BIG CONGRATS to you Candlelover... I rememebr seeing a post by you the other week about false labour, mustn't have been that false after all!! Hope you're doing well and fair play re the gas and air... did it just make you feel sick or did you actually have to puke (sorry tmi I know!!) I'm gonna have an open mind and hope for the best, hate throwing up though so that would freak me out, mind you I'll be freaked one way or the other I suppose!

thanks:) yeah turns out hospital was wrong on the waters going thing...

the gas and air made me feel like i was going to be sick but luckily nothing came up. either way you'll know what you want when the time comes!

enilec

Has anyone tried Hypnobirthing or anything similar?http://www.hypnobirthing.com/ I had epidural my first time but would like to do it all naturally this time.

Moonbeam

I was sick a few times in labour,it is not unusual.that was way before gas and air and more due to pain.
At that stage it is too early for epidural anyway.
My advise is write down what you want and let your birthing partner know.
Things do not always go as you plan.
My baby girls birth was as straight forward as they come so there was no need for intervention or induction.

Mr Bloat

I think it's crazy that someone is effectively saying that women should suck it up and suffer the pain of it. I fail to see how being in agony for a few hours would strengthen the bond between mother and child, it's not as if a woman who gets pain relief during childbirth is going to love her child less than a woman who has a painful childbirth. I would have thought that someone who has a less painful birth would recover faster and that would be more beneficial to the mum as well as the baby.
My wife had an epidural for our first but tried the gas and breathing techniques first. She wanted it for the second but he was born so fast, she didn't have time for it. She hoping for the same with the one on the way but will take the pain relief if necessary.
There are medical advances every day and we should take advantage of them, once we're fully informed of the side effects and the pros and cons.

gowayouttadat

enilec wrote: »

Has anyone tried Hypnobirthing or anything similar?http://www.hypnobirthing.com/ I had epidural my first time but would like to do it all naturally this time.

Hey enilec, I got the gentle birth hypnobirthing home pack delivered yesterday. I started reading it last night but haven't listening to the CD's yet. I will tomorrow when I'm off work. I can't say whether it's any good or not but I thought it was worth a try.

Hannibal Smith

'He said it helped strengthen a mother's bond with her baby, and prepared her for the responsibility of motherhood'

This made me laugh! The pain of child birth helps strengthen the bond? A right of passage? What poppycock...I had a c-section....morphine....2 epidurals....no pain other than the contractions before the first epidural was given and I had no problems bonding with my baby, who on top of everything was delivered four weeks early.

Go in to the labour ward with an open mind. If you have a birth plan, do not expect it to be followed to the letter, instead anticipate that what will be done on the day will be in the best interests of you and your baby and if necessary, your personal preferences will be set aside.

I had the gas and air for a bit too, initially it did make me feel queasy, but luckily I had an excellent midwife, who taught me how to breathe with it properly and after that I was fine. I was so whacked out of it mind you I can hardly remember it now, even though it was only a few months ago lol...I think it was inhale the gas just before the contraction hits and breathe out counting in your head to distract yourself. This is as opposed to the 'hoooo'hoooooo' type breathing you see them do on TV

SanFran07

Hi everyone,

This article has sparked a huge debate all over the world it's a pity it was totally inaccurate. The alleged comments were taken out of context and misrepresented. I had expected that any journalist will research their piece but that's not the case here or in the article in today's Irish Indo. Denis Walsh was misquoted (if you listen to his interview on the BBC earlier this week…it's available online)



Denis is not in favour of less pain relief or insisting that women give birth without pain relief – the point of his article (which has not yet been published) was that with true midwifery care women often find they need less epidurals. Denis would like to see other options available to mothers - options that the majority of Irish maternity units lack or simply choose to ignore.

Dennis Walsh simply wants what all midwives want, normal childbirth for women with good physiological and psychological outcomes but that doesn’t come easy in maternity units that provide mothers with very few options other than epidurals or narcotics.

The point that Denis was making that so many seem to have missed (because he's a man!) is about the provision of support for women rather than the use of epidurals as a substitute for proper midwifery care. In research we know that women ask for epidurals less often when they have 1:1 midwifery care, when they give birth in homely surroundings and when they have access to labour pools and other labour 'tool's. Something Irish maternity units are really poor at providing....NMH with over 8000 births a year doesn't even have 1 bath to use in labour.

Denis recommends encouraging women to create their own labour toolkit – a labour toolkit that has no side effects for mum or baby….hypnosis for birth….yoga…active birth, doulas, facilities for labouring in water and the epidural if necessary but not before using non-pharmacological options (in a normal labour). But as long as Irish maternity units don’t encourage or in some cases ‘allow’ these choices we can’t exactly ask mums to consider other options.

Irish mums are getting a raw deal when it comes to maternity services.

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/birth-of-a-nation-1828682.html

Tracy

gowayouttadat

On the subject, I can see where he is coming from in relation to epidurals etc being used more than necessary. I was in the hospital on Thursday for a check up and the midwife did a birth plan with me as I'm now 35 weeks. I've mentioned here before but because of a back condition they don't know whether or not the anaesathist will be able to give me an epi until the day. When we got to the pain relief question I explained this to her and the look on her face actually shocked me. It was like she couldn't get over the fact that someone might have to go through it without an epidural. Thankfully I've gotten my head around it by now but if I was having doubts etc or scared about it she certainly didn't go a great job in being reassuring. She recovered herself pretty quickly but it was still obvious from her initial reaction that she would have been pushing epidural all the way if it wasn't an issue.

Hannibal Smith

gowayouttadat wrote: »

On the subject, I can see where he is coming from in relation to epidurals etc being used more than necessary. I was in the hospital on Thursday for a check up and the midwife did a birth plan with me as I'm now 35 weeks. I've mentioned here before but because of a back condition they don't know whether or not the anaesathist will be able to give me an epi until the day. When we got to the pain relief question I explained this to her and the look on her face actually shocked me. It was like she couldn't get over the fact that someone might have to go through it without an epidural. Thankfully I've gotten my head around it by now but if I was having doubts etc or scared about it she certainly didn't go a great job in being reassuring. She recovered herself pretty quickly but it was still obvious from her initial reaction that she would have been pushing epidural all the way if it wasn't an issue.

Ah don't mind her! Epidurals aren't a dead cert, that's why you have to put it in your Birth Plan as to whether you want one because if you don't, it'll take time for the anaesthetist to get there. If they were used willy nilly, they'd have one resident in the hosp 24/7 Plenty of women get by without them.

Anyhow, even if it was used in circumstances where it wasn't entirely necessary, what the hey! Unless they did it against the mother's wishes, I don't see the harm in relieving her pain!

Hannibal Smith

SanFran07 wrote: »

Hi everyone,

This article has sparked a huge debate all over the world it's a pity it was totally inaccurate. The alleged comments were taken out of context and misrepresented. I had expected that any journalist will research their piece but that's not the case here or in the article in today's Irish Indo. Denis Walsh was misquoted (if you listen to his interview on the BBC earlier this week…it's available online)



Denis is not in favour of less pain relief or insisting that women give birth without pain relief – the point of his article (which has not yet been published) was that with true midwifery care women often find they need less epidurals. Denis would like to see other options available to mothers - options that the majority of Irish maternity units lack or simply choose to ignore.

Dennis Walsh simply wants what all midwives want, normal childbirth for women with good physiological and psychological outcomes but that doesn’t come easy in maternity units that provide mothers with very few options other than epidurals or narcotics.

The point that Denis was making that so many seem to have missed (because he's a man!) is about the provision of support for women rather than the use of epidurals as a substitute for proper midwifery care. In research we know that women ask for epidurals less often when they have 1:1 midwifery care, when they give birth in homely surroundings and when they have access to labour pools and other labour 'tool's. Something Irish maternity units are really poor at providing....NMH with over 8000 births a year doesn't even have 1 bath to use in labour.

Denis recommends encouraging women to create their own labour toolkit – a labour toolkit that has no side effects for mum or baby….hypnosis for birth….yoga…active birth, doulas, facilities for labouring in water and the epidural if necessary but not before using non-pharmacological options (in a normal labour). But as long as Irish maternity units don’t encourage or in some cases ‘allow’ these choices we can’t exactly ask mums to consider other options.

Irish mums are getting a raw deal when it comes to maternity services.

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/birth-of-a-nation-1828682.html

Tracy

Do you know him personally?

As for the NMH, their midwifery team are excellent. What ever I wanted and whatever way I wanted to do it, they listened and advised and did it my way. The lack of a bathing option didn't matter a hoot.

SanFran07

gowayouttadat wrote: »

She recovered herself pretty quickly but it was still obvious from her initial reaction that she would have been pushing epidural all the way if it wasn't an issue.

Are you going to a hospital where they have a labour pool? Although they're not currently being used it should really be an option for women who may not have the option of an epidural.

I hope she at least gave you some suggestions for other non-pharmacological methods for the birth - bath, acupressure, hypnosis......or anything to boost your confidence that you can do this!

Tracy

gowayouttadat

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

Ah don't mind her! Epidurals aren't a dead cert, that's why you have to put it in your Birth Plan as to whether you want one because if you don't, it'll take time for the anaesthetist to get there. If they were used willy nilly, they'd have one resident in the hosp 24/7 Plenty of women get by without them.

Anyhow, even if it was used in circumstances where it wasn't entirely necessary, what the hey! Unless they did it against the mother's wishes, I don't see the harm in relieving her pain!

Oh I didn't take any notice. I've my head around it now so I was fine. I was just surprised at how she reacted. I know lots of people go without epi's which is why I was so surprised at her.

SanFran07 wrote:

Are you going to a hospital where they have a labour pool? Although they're not currently being used it should really be an option for women who may not have the option of an epidural.

I hope she at least gave you some suggestions for other non-pharmacological methods for the birth - bath, acupressure, hypnosis......or anything to boost your confidence that you can do this!

Tracy

I don't think it does. It hasn't been mentioned to me anyway. I'd love if the option for a birthing pool was available.
She went through other options e.g gas and air, pethidine and tens machine. It was me that mentioned hypnobirthing to her. Her reaction was just surprising to me.
Saying that my consultant was brilliant when I found out I mightn't be able the epi, going through lots of different options.

January

The ban on water births has been lifted, but nobody is trained yet. But you do have the option to labour in the water if the hospital has the facilities.

Have you read into hypnobirthing?? It might be a bit late to start the process now though. I was thinking of giving it a shot if I got pregnant again.

gowayouttadat

I don't think CUMH has the facilities to labour in water. It's never been mentioned. I'd love to try it.

I only read about hypnobirthing lately and got the home kit delivered last week. I know it's late but I just started reading the book and listening to the CD's. I figure it can't help to give it a go even if it is a bit late to be getting into it.
Tbh I was absolutely terrified at the start but I don't know what's happened me and I feel like it'll be fine. It's not like others haven't gone through it and found it ok so I don't see why I won't be able to.

Moonbeam

Ireland am are covering medicated vs non medicated births tomorrow.
Might be worth watching.

Chuchu

SanFran07 wrote: »

Hi everyone,

This article has sparked a huge debate all over the world it's a pity it was totally inaccurate. The alleged comments were taken out of context and misrepresented. I had expected that any journalist will research their piece but that's not the case here or in the article in today's Irish Indo. Denis Walsh was misquoted (if you listen to his interview on the BBC earlier this week…it's available online)



Denis is not in favour of less pain relief or insisting that women give birth without pain relief – the point of his article (which has not yet been published) was that with true midwifery care women often find they need less epidurals. Denis would like to see other options available to mothers - options that the majority of Irish maternity units lack or simply choose to ignore.

Dennis Walsh simply wants what all midwives want, normal childbirth for women with good physiological and psychological outcomes but that doesn’t come easy in maternity units that provide mothers with very few options other than epidurals or narcotics.

The point that Denis was making that so many seem to have missed (because he's a man!) is about the provision of support for women rather than the use of epidurals as a substitute for proper midwifery care. In research we know that women ask for epidurals less often when they have 1:1 midwifery care, when they give birth in homely surroundings and when they have access to labour pools and other labour 'tool's. Something Irish maternity units are really poor at providing....NMH with over 8000 births a year doesn't even have 1 bath to use in labour.

Denis recommends encouraging women to create their own labour toolkit – a labour toolkit that has no side effects for mum or baby….hypnosis for birth….yoga…active birth, doulas, facilities for labouring in water and the epidural if necessary but not before using non-pharmacological options (in a normal labour). But as long as Irish maternity units don’t encourage or in some cases ‘allow’ these choices we can’t exactly ask mums to consider other options.

Irish mums are getting a raw deal when it comes to maternity services.

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/birth-of-a-nation-1828682.html

Tracy

Hi Tracy,

This forum is not a medical forum. I decided to post here in the pregnancy forum of Boards when I found out I was expecting because I had already used Boards from time to time and found that this particular pregnancy forum does not contain the usual scare mongering and outlandish stories that you generally find in other preg forums. Also the people that log on here seem to be a bit more relaxed about it all, there is humour and a general 'down-to-earthness', which again you don't find in the couple of over preg forums I've dipped into (and had the sense to dip out of!)

I thought that this article would interest the good people of Boards and wanted to get their thoughts and feedback, I did not want to open a debte on the lazy and lack lustre tendencies of journalists... as someone who works in an area which is also much misrepresented by shoddy journalism I tend to take anything I read that has not been peer reviewed with a grain of salt...

In my defence the comment about this midwife 'being a man' was a joke... HOWEVER having just attended a private prenatal course given by a midwife with over 15 years experience under her belt before having 3 children, I can only pass on here what she said herself... that she learnt more about her profession and felt more qualified in doing what she did not after the 15 years working in the area but after having experienced three very different birthing experinces for herself... I think we can all agree that a man will never be able to say this (bar of course that transexual a few months back!:D) (PS Girls pm me if anyone wants info about this course I could not recommend it highly enough)

By the way if your second name begins with 'D' I may have read your book, and while I enjoyed most of it, it is clear that you have quite fixed ideas about women having a drug free birth, something I aim to do myself, but I have to acknowledge that its not for eveyone; each to their own.

Nevyn

please note this forum is for discussions and sharing agend pushing will be not permitted, if you have an issue with anyones post please use the report post function.


I do think that the more options the better for women giving birth, and that if a person can due to having a good pain mangement plan and a high pain threshold give birth with out an epi or drugs then good for them and good for very woman who tries.

I tried to hold off with both of mine until it was absolutly needed and I did use accupressure and trance medatives states and in the end was glad I had the epdidurals ( both for very short ammount of time ) due to complications.

TERRIC

When it comes to having a baby, always remember what my first midwife told me, "there's no medals for pain....". Took her advice, took the gas, air, epi, the lot... Worked for me!!

Oryx

An epidural was never part of any plan I had for giving birth. I simply didnt want one. I like to be in control of whats happening, and I felt that would have taken some away from me. Im a fan of less intervention, rather than more. I had just about every other intervention, venteuse, gas & air, pethidene, induction though, so its not like I dont believe in the usefulness of a medicalised birth.

In spite of a long and difficult labour, I managed without one. Ive said this here before, it is possible to do it. I know they dont give out medals for pain, but I think sometimes its getting to the stage where women think an epi is vital. Its not, you are stronger than you think. As far as I was concerned, it could have complications, so if I could do it without, I would.