ah english motorways

stratos

Just back from 800 miles on UK motorways(mostly), Didn't have to undertake anyone. what a pleasure. High speed tarmac ballet most enjoyable.

tossy

I used to think Uk motorways were it until i tried the ones on the continent,the UK is still a major improvement over Ireland though especially in driving manners and awareness.

Gregor Samsa

tossy wrote: »

I used to think Uk motorways were it until i tried the ones on the continent,the UK is still a major improvement over Ireland though especially in driving manners and awareness.

I dunno, I find the Continental motorways very similar to Ireland: all the slow traffic trundling along in the right hand lane...

silverside

I find Irish motorways more pleasant... wider lanes, and less heavy traffic. Slogging up the M6 is not my idea of fun.

the big difference is the third lane in the UK tho - generally in heavy traffic its left lane for HGV's and caravans; middle lane for cars; and right hand lane for overtaking. Maybe not totally by-the-book, but it seems to work ok.

GTE

Taking the quality of the roads and how busy they aside for a moment I think the biggest differnce is the education of how to drive on a motorway over there.
People seem to just know how to drive on one, at least the majority do and the majority over here have no clue, Id count myself as one who doesnt have a clue because I wont be able to drive on one nor will I recieve any formal education on motorway etiquette untill I get thrown into the deep end when i pass my test.

unkel

bbk wrote: »

People seem to just know how to drive on one,

People don't "just know". To learn how to drive properly (on motorways) takes a good bit of education (time + money). The problem in this country is that hundreds of thousands of people drive around without a license and the ones that do have a license were never taught how to drive on motorways. You can't blame the people here really. Blame the system - and change it.

silverside

silverside wrote: »

I find Irish motorways more pleasant... wider lanes, and less heavy traffic. Slogging up the M6 is not my idea of fun.

.

I would have to agree. I have done a lot of driving in the UK and have to say in general Irish DC's and motorways are in better condition and driving on them is a more relaxed experience apart from the usual culprits who hog the overtaking lane etc and our lack of motorways is a major issue, Galway to Cork for instance has only about 40km of DC which it crazy.

On UK motorways I found I was constantly having to change lane to keep any sort of constant speed and found the cruise control almost pointless where as in Ireland I have driven for miles and miles without having to disengage it.

Damomayo

Love the way we can just rename more dual carriageway as motorway.
But ya good roads over there and ppl who know how to move left if lane is empty

Mailman

I did a 300 mile trip up to Holyhead from the South Coast on Thursday and the trip was great even though traffic was very heavy.
None of the bullyboy behaviour and right lane hogging you see on the M4 out to Maynooth or on the M50.
In general they know how to use the motorways and they obey the rules of the road. I passed crashes and car fires along the way but the motorways kept working.

Got a lift with my sister at the weekend and she spent more time in the overtaking lane than she did in the driving lane even though traffic was light.
Didn't lecture her for fear of being deposited on the hard shoulder to find my way home.

The good thing about Irish motorways is that they are relatively underutilized so on roads like the M6 you are not sharing the motorway with many and make fast progress.

peasant

Not a great fan of UK motorway driving myself. The lanes are too narrow, cars (and especially trucks) do not keep a safe distance and there seem to be an awful lot of unrestricted trucks around that thunder along at 70-80 mph.

It is not uncommon to find yourself in the middle lane, in a truck sandwich with trucks too close in all directions, including the outside lane.

They DO have good lane discipline though.

Stevie Dakota

The North used to be the same until us Southerners started polluting the roads up there on the way to Tesco.

GTE

unkel wrote: »

People don't "just know". To learn how to drive properly (on motorways) takes a good bit of education (time + money). The problem in this country is that hundreds of thousands of people drive around without a license and the ones that do have a license were never taught how to drive on motorways. You can't blame the people here really. Blame the system - and change it.

Just to clear up, I didnt write that post as I should have.

When I said people just know how to drive on motorways in the UK I mean that prior to driving on a motorway they have received the appropriate training and education which results in drive that is a joy compared to Ireland.

Also, I am not blaming the drivers of Ireland. The system here is . . . not really that good to be honest. There are good intentions with theory tests for example however in practice it doesn't amount to much.

Would the answer in your opinion be more regulated education? For example having a Transition year or Senior cycle module dedicated to driving, something in which you are graded and given a reward for, not CAO points for college but depending on your performance in the class you could get some discounts from insurance companies. Doing that would mean it would be a strict class but some kind of incentive is needed.

Alun

bbk wrote: »

When I said people just know how to drive on motorways in the UK I mean that prior to driving on a motorway they have received the appropriate training and education which results in drive that is a joy compared to Ireland.

Well, learner drivers are not allowed on motorways in the UK either, and their learner driver and testing system is pretty much identical to that used here, so I don't know where you got that from. The only real difference being that more people seem to use the services of driving schools, which are also better regulated than ours here, and driving unaccompanied to get so called driving 'practice' is virtually unheard of there. Many driving schools there offer voluntary post-driving-test lessons where they cover stuff like motorway and night driving skills though.

GTE

Alun wrote: »

Well, learner drivers are not allowed on motorways in the UK either, and their learner driver and testing system is pretty much identical to that used here, so I don't know where you got that from.

The only real difference being that more people seem to use the services of driving schools, which are also better regulated than ours hereand driving unaccompanied to get so called driving 'practice' is virtually unheard of there. Many driving schools there offer voluntary post-driving-test lessons where they cover stuff like motorway and night driving skills though.

What you just said is exactly what I mean.
I know their situation is similar to us but what is in bold is my reasoning.

xabi

phutyle wrote: »

I dunno, I find the Continental motorways very similar to Ireland: all the slow traffic trundling along in the right hand lane...

Cause they drive on the right maybe! Right hand lane being the driving lane?

Alun

xabi wrote: »

Cause they drive on the right maybe! Right hand lane being the driving lane?

Whoooooosh. (That was the sound of an obvious joke zooming straight over your head!)

GreeBo

Jasmine Fat Coat wrote: »

On UK motorways I found I was constantly having to change lane to keep any sort of constant speed and found the cruise control almost pointless where as in Ireland I have driven for miles and miles without having to disengage it.

Isnt that the definition of a MLM?
"Im going X speed and staying in this lane so there!"

I find that driving in a country where people know how to use motorways by the book is a much more tiring exercise than driving in Ireland.
For example in Italy you are constantly having to move out to overtake HGV's and then back in before the guy doing 180 rear ends you. Im fine with the to be honest as you make much faster progress.

R.O.R

Alun wrote: »

Well, learner drivers are not allowed on motorways in the UK either, and their learner driver and testing system is pretty much identical to that used here, so I don't know where you got that from. The only real difference being that more people seem to use the services of driving schools, which are also better regulated than ours here, and driving unaccompanied to get so called driving 'practice' is virtually unheard of there. Many driving schools there offer voluntary post-driving-test lessons where they cover stuff like motorway and night driving skills though.

I think the big difference is that motorways have been around in the UK for the past 40-50 years so anyone with a licence is used to driving on them. Motorways in Ireland are still relatively new and don't cover the whole country so a lot of drivers don't really know how to use them.

I never had a lesson on a motorway, but from observing my Dad driving on them, I knew how to drive on one before I passed my test.

Even after passing my test, it was 3 months before I ventured on to a Motorway and that was a bit by accident (A road turned in to motorway and I missed the turn off).

Eoin

Germany is the only place I've been where I've noticed a substantial improvement in driver behaviour. I didn't think the UK was that much better.

stealthyspeeder

Alun wrote: »

Well, learner drivers are not allowed on motorways in the UK either, and their learner driver and testing system is pretty much identical to that used here, so I don't know where you got that from. The only real difference being that more people seem to use the services of driving schools, which are also better regulated than ours here, and driving unaccompanied to get so called driving 'practice' is virtually unheard of there. Many driving schools there offer voluntary post-driving-test lessons where they cover stuff like motorway and night driving skills though.

Uk A roads tend to be 2 lane carrigeways travelling at 60 mph so the priciple for lane discipline and overtaking is exactly the same as per the motorway except on the motorway you can go 10 mph faster.

Lord Nikon

Oh I just hate where the N4 meets with the M4. Who is the muppet hogging the right hand lane doing 50kp/h? You should be hitting 100kp/h passing the Spa hotel at least, and that never happens. The last set of lights are at Palmerstown too, so you can't blame them.

beggars_bush

there used to be speed cameras there, so people automatically think...

super106

LOVE HOCKYING ALONG THERE MOTORWAYS..... IRISH JUST ARE NOT GOOD AT DRIVING PROPERLY ON FAST ROADS.....

the_syco

We don't get taught on how to overtake, nevermind taught about how to drive on a motarway...

neuromancer wrote: »

Oh I just hate where the N4 meets with the M4. Who is the muppet hogging the right hand lane doing 50kp/h? You should be hitting 100kp/h passing the Spa hotel at least, and that never happens. The last set of lights are at Palmerstown too, so you can't blame them.

When you pass by the Spa, you're in an 80 zone, and you get to the bridge, you go from an 80 to a 60 zone, until a few moments later you get to the 120 zone. There are many places along the duel carraigeway that have different speed limits, which is retaered.

Gregor Samsa

xabi wrote: »

Cause they drive on the right maybe! Right hand lane being the driving lane?

I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Greenmachine

the_syco wrote: »

We don't get taught on how to overtake, nevermind taught about how to drive on a motarway...


When you pass by the Spa, you're in an 80 zone, and you get to the bridge, you go from an 80 to a 60 zone, until a few moments later you get to the 120 zone. There are many places along the duel carraigeway that have different speed limits, which is retaered.

Confirmed as annoying as it is, that strtch of the N4 has a speed limit of 60kph. Mind you going 50kph in an overtaking lane is taking the piss a bit.

xabi

Alun wrote: »

Whoooooosh. (That was the sound of an obvious joke zooming straight over your head!)

Fair enough, appologies, i only do funny jokes though! :P

X.

pablosd

i will always envy english the motorways because they connect most of the country, and travelling is just a pleasure, as a person paying 614euros of road tax a year i wonder when will it happen in ireland, its almost 2010 for god's sake,

BlackWizard

xabi wrote: »

Fair enough, appologies, i only do funny jokes though! :P

X.

Did you just end your post with a kiss? Awh..

Gregor Samsa

pablosd wrote: »

i will always envy english the motorways because they connect most of the country, and travelling is just a pleasure, as a person paying 614euros of road tax a year i wonder when will it happen in ireland, its almost 2010 for god's sake,

For a start, motor tax isn't used exclusively for road construction and maintenance... but anyway, even if it was

The UK has between 25 and 30 million vehicles on the road (Source)

Ireland has between 2.5 and 3 million (Source)

So they have 10 times the amount of revenue pool for road/motor tax, but only 3 times the land area that we do. So they can do a lot more with their money, and afford to charge a lot less, than we do.

This applies not just to vehicle taxation, but to everything (VAT, income tax, etc). With our small population, we can't ever hope to match the UK in terms of tax rates, or what we get for those taxes (unless we rejoin the Union :P).

holmyster

can't beat the brit drivers

greener&leaner

unkel wrote: »

People don't "just know". To learn how to drive properly (on motorways) takes a good bit of education (time + money). The problem in this country is that hundreds of thousands of people drive around without a license and the ones that do have a license were never taught how to drive on motorways. You can't blame the people here really. Blame the system - and change it.

The UK driving test doesn't contain a component on motorway driving.
You're also not allowed to drive on motorways until you pass your test, same as here.
Recently there has been an optional pass plus scheme introduced over there which does contain a motorway driving component, but I doubt more than 0.5% of drivers have participated.

I've driven alot in both countries, I don't notice that much difference in driving styles.
What I do notice is a massive difference in road markings and signage. In the UK if you're not sure where you're going, the signposts tell you which lane to get into and it's easy to follow. In Ireland, we don't have that, so you end up with alot of dodgy lane changes.

xabi

BlackWizard wrote: »

Did you just end your post with a kiss? Awh..

Nope.:o

Eoin

greener&leaner wrote: »

The UK driving test doesn't contain a component on motorway driving.
You're also not allowed to drive on motorways until you pass your test, same as here.

Don't they have to wait a while after driving their test as well, or am I imagining that?

greener&leaner

No they don't, or they didn't when I passed my test there in 2004.

Alun

eoin wrote: »

Don't they have to wait a while after driving their test as well, or am I imagining that?

If you mean some kind of restricted licence for a few years after passing, that's just in NI. In England, Scotland and Wales there's no such scheme (yet).

Eoin

Yeah, that's what I was thinking of.

bugsntinas

most driving schools also offer motorway driving lessons for people once they've passed their test which is a good idea.when i passed my test and done motorway driving it was just using your common sense which unfortunately is lacking over here(in alot of cases).my arguement being for example:
in the uk if your driving along and come upto a car going slower you wait until you can pass.answer here just drive n the hard shoulder:eek:.people can't indicate properly,they don't know how to use rounabouts and alot aren't curtious nowadays.but who's to blame?

mcwhirter

Alun wrote: »

Well, learner drivers are not allowed on motorways in the UK either, and their learner driver and testing system is pretty much identical to that used here, so I don't know where you got that from. The only real difference being that more people seem to use the services of driving schools, which are also better regulated than ours here, and driving unaccompanied to get so called driving 'practice' is virtually unheard of there. Many driving schools there offer voluntary post-driving-test lessons where they cover stuff like motorway and night driving skills though.

It is the driving unoccupied by learners that is the main cause of bad lane discipline imho. These learner drivers have in some ways taught themselves how to drive. Hopefully the new system will be a change for the better.
In the uk it is unheard of, that a learner driver drives unoccupied unless they stole it etc.

JHMEG

The scenery in the UK is generally better too, thanks to the lack of one off housing (aka "bungalow blight").

fryup

i find driving in ireland more relaxing to be honest with you, there's always someone up your arse* in the UK even on minor roads

*pardon the expression

greener&leaner

mcwhirter wrote: »

It is the driving unoccupied by learners that is the main cause of bad lane discipline imho. These learner drivers have in some ways taught themselves how to drive. Hopefully the new system will be a change for the better.
In the uk it is unheard of, that a learner driver drives unoccupied unless they stole it etc.

I disagree. I honestly don't think our driver training system has half the impact people claim it does.

The reason there is such poor lane discipline in Ireland is because of the near total absence of adequate signs and lane marking. Just as a for instance, the junction in front of Heuston station. It's the start of the N4-N6, one of the busiest and one of the most important junctions in the country. The approach is four lanes wide and traffic has three options, left for the M50/N4 - N6, Right for Dublin City Centre and the N1 - N3 and straight ahead for Heuston station and the car park.

Between Ellis St Bridge and the junction, a run of about 500m, there is not one single signpost to tell you what roads are ahead or which lane you should be in for each option. The only markings are the arrows on the road at the junction itself, usually invisible because there is always a queue of traffic. That scenario is repeated all around the country.

Of course you're going to end up with people randomly changing lanes and turning from the wrong lane. It's impossible to know which lane to travel in unless you've done it before and can remember.

GreeBo

greener&leaner wrote: »

The reason there is such poor lane discipline in Ireland is because of the near total absence of adequate signs and lane marking.

Signage in Ireland only works when you are the only person on the road and can tootle along reading the signs "on" the road. When something is out of the ordinary of confusing there should be signs on both the road and the roadside. I frequently find myself in the left lane trying to go straight on a roundabout only to discover that there is a left only arrow beneath me. In a queue of traffic the only option is to force your way onto the roundabout and "merge" at the second exit.

stealthyspeeder

I dont think the standard of lane disipline is purely down to Irish training, its down to Irish roads as well. A lot of the N roads are wide single lane roads, peole learn on these an dont know what to do on the 2 lane roads. Whereas ion the UK, main roads are 2 lanes wide and when you are a learner you are going slow, so you are always on the left and very aware that the faster moving traffic goes past on the right!

getz

i find irish drivers on irish motorways are ok,they will often pull in to let me pass, , maybe its just because they see my UK numberplate , anyway i like driving in ireland

Scottie99

peasant wrote: »

Not a great fan of UK motorway driving myself. The lanes are too narrow, cars (and especially trucks) do not keep a safe distance and there seem to be an awful lot of unrestricted trucks around that thunder along at 70-80 mph.

It is not uncommon to find yourself in the middle lane, in a truck sandwich with trucks too close in all directions, including the outside lane.

They DO have good lane discipline though.

Have to disagree with you concerning trucks. NO trucks travel at 80mph!! I've done 100's of thousands Kms on UK roads as trucker and never seen a truck pass me doing that speed. Sixty/sixty five yes but those are mostly foreign and I'd say Irish. The Irish trucker has a bad name on the Continent for speeding, poor condition of trucks and taco infringements. Things are improving for the better though.

r3nu4l

stratos wrote: »

Just back from 800 miles on UK motorways(mostly), Didn't have to undertake anyone. what a pleasure. High speed tarmac ballet most enjoyable.

Try doing it everyday, try getting caught up in rush hour traffic on the M25, see how great it is then

Mailman wrote: »

I did a 300 mile trip up to Holyhead from the South Coast on Thursday and the trip was great even though traffic was very heavy.
None of the bullyboy behaviour and right lane hogging you see on the M4 out to Maynooth or on the M50.
In general they know how to use the motorways and they obey the rules of the road. I passed crashes and car fires along the way but the motorways kept working.

1. No bullyboy behaviour? Seriously, how often have you driven on English roads? They're there, trust me, there's lots of them. I've even caught myself doing it from time to time

Also, when the cops and highways agency arrive at an accident they tend to close at least one lane but in East Anglia they tend to close the whole road Last year there was an accident on the A14, just as it connects with the A11 before Newmarket. It happened at 11:00 am, At 17:30 when I was leaving work the road was still closed, at 19:30 it was still closed. I left the office trying to take the backroads to Newmarket...one hour later I hadn't moved an inch in the traffic. The A14/A11 eventually opened at 21:30 and I was able to go home. :rolleyes:

peasant wrote: »

Not a great fan of UK motorway driving myself. The lanes are too narrow, cars (and especially trucks) do not keep a safe distance and there seem to be an awful lot of unrestricted trucks around that thunder along at 70-80 mph.

It is not uncommon to find yourself in the middle lane, in a truck sandwich with trucks too close in all directions, including the outside lane.

They DO have good lane discipline though.

For the most part they do but you do get the odd person (not an Irish person in a rental either) driving in the overtaking lane at 70mph when most traffic wants to be at 80-90mph. Not many but enough to annoy people and cause undertaking.

eoin wrote: »

Germany is the only place I've been where I've noticed a substantial improvement in driver behaviour. I didn't think the UK was that much better.

UK driver isn't a huge amount better, sure we have good lane discipline over here but the bullying can be outrageous.

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Uk A roads tend to be 2 lane carrigeways travelling at 60 mph so the priciple for lane discipline and overtaking is exactly the same as per the motorway except on the motorway you can go 10 mph faster.

Incorrect! UK Dual-carriageway A-roads have a 70 mph limit, exactly the same as the Motorway.

During the non rush-hour times, our A-roads and Motorways over here are fantastic to drive on, hundreds of miles with little traffic and long stretches at 80-90mph without getting any hassle from the cops (who do use their discretion!).

However, during rush-hour, the bullying, sharp lane changes, tailgating and not allowing people into the overtaking lane by other drivers is atrocious. Some roads like the M25 can make the M50 look like a fast-moving Autobahn when traffic is heavy or there's been an accident.

For the most part I love driving over here but to be honest, it's not really any better than driving in Ireland in the long run

Scottie99

r3nu4l wrote: »

Incorrect! UK Dual-carriageway A-roads have a 70 mph limit, exactly the same as the Motorway.

I'm afraid they're not, they vary from 50mph upwards depending on circumstance. Example Dundee ring road (A90)D.C is a 50mph some parts Perth to Dundee are 70mph. Then A92 Dundee to Arbroath is 50mph all the way

stealthyspeeder

Scottie99 wrote: »

I'm afraid they're not, they vary from 50mph upwards depending on circumstance. Example Dundee ring road (A90)D.C is a 50mph some parts Perth to Dundee are 70mph. Then A92 Dundee to Arbroath is 50mph all the way

http://www.abd.org.uk/know_your_speed_limits.htm

Scottie99

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

http://www.abd.org.uk/know_your_speed_limits.htm

But its still an A road

Noffles

In general though Irish roads are laughable, take the N11 for example, the main link to the south and the Rosslare port yet it's split by a single lane section, has to go through poxy Wexford and bottle necks in Bray....

Where as soon as you hit Holyhead you have a fantastic road... all the way to anywhere you want!