Post Man shot with air rifle in Finglas

Heckler

Poor Degsy folds under questioning. Degsy fail awww.

amaughan

Degsy wrote: »

Hmm,how can i put this..i dont like airsofters?
Talking about this gun and that gun as if its the real thing when its a toy.

I suppose i think its a bit sad really,not so much the skirmishing itself but the nerdy-obsessive way some of them spend a fortune on "upgrading" thier toy guns and consider themselves to be experts on firearms despite never having held one.
Just my two cents worth.

if a golfer spends €100's for some new clubs is that sad or nerdy.same with target shooters or any sport for that matter.i think you need to grow up and try it out at a site before making un educated arguments you just start to look the fool.i for one pitty you for being so closed minded;)

Sir Molle

It is not a sport.

CrazyRabbit

Sir Molle wrote: »

People who say there's a difference between airsoft guns and airguns are simply splitting hairs. Airsoft weapons should be banned because they're dangerous in the wrong hands.


Nobody in this country needs to have a weapon readily available to them like that.

Ban kitchen knives! Ban forks! Ban baseball bats! Ban crowbars! Ban chainsaws! Ban cars! Ban people from having fists and feet!

All of these things WILL cause a hell of a lot more damage than a 0.2g 6mm plastic Airsoft bb if used to assault someone.

Your ignorance is astounding. You cannot ban items simply because some people may choose to use them in a dangerous or threatening manner. If we did that, we'd be in a very sorry state.

Place the blame where it lies....on the people themselves, and not the tools they use.

For the record, I've been hit about 10,000 times by airsoft bb's in the last few years. There's not so much as a mark on me from these hits. And yes, I do need to improve my ability to duck

weeder

lads, lets ban drink, it makes some people violent therfore is dangerous and should be banned

Sir Molle

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

Ban kitchen knives! Ban forks! Ban baseball bats! Ban crowbars! Ban chainsaws! Ban cars! Ban people from having fists and feet!

All of these things WILL cause a hell of a lot more damage than a 0.2g 6mm plastic Airsoft bb if used to assault someone.

Your ignorance is astounding. You cannot ban items simply because some people may choose to use them in a dangerous or threatening manner. If we did that, we'd be in a very sorry state.

Place the blame where it lies....on the people themselves, and not the tools they use.

For the record, I've been hit about 10,000 times by airsoft bb's in the last few years. There's not so much as a mark on me from these hits. And yes, I do need to improve my ability to duck

The difference is that the percentage of people who abuse the things you've said is a lot lower than those who abuse airsoft weapons, and also kitchen knives, forks, crowbars, chainsaws and cars aren't designed or modeled on things designed to kill people. There is also a need for the things you mentioned, where as there is literally no need at all for airsoft weapons.

Heckler

Sir Molle wrote: »

It is not a sport.

Yes it is whether you like it or not. Its played professionally as well as for fun the world over.

Every one of your anti-airsoft posts has held no arguement simply Dougal-like "its bad, I don't like like it. Ban it." Give me 5 well founded points as to why airsoft should be banned and I will give you ten as to why it should'nt. Thats if you're not the troll as I think you are.

Sir Molle

1. Airsoft weapons are incredibly easy to obtain, therefore it is extremely easy for them to get in to the hands of people who aren't interested in using these weapons responsibly.

2. They are realistic replicas of real guns and can be used as weapons in crimes.

3. They are realistic replicas of real guns and can easily scare people if seen in public.

4. They are dangerous.

5. The bullets are harmful to the environment.

Heckler

As to your statement above that airsoft toys are used more than knives, crowbars and screwdrivers in crime I can guarantee you that noone has been killed or injured in the course of a crime with an airsoft device. Thats opposite figures to the amount of people killed, maimed stabbed and injured by common household items like kitchen knives, beer bottles, hurleys screwdrivers etc. Get your facts and figures right before you come on here spouting false stats that can harm a perfectly legal and to many enjoyable pastime. Because of the mods I can't say what I think of you but you know don't ya.........

Sir Molle

Knives have a practical application, airsoft weapons do not. If you can't understand why that difference matters then there is no point in discussing this further with you.

Heckler

Sir Molle wrote: »

1. Airsoft weapons are incredibly easy to obtain, therefore it is extremely easy for them to get in to the hands of people who aren't interested in using these weapons responsibly.

2. They are realistic replicas of real guns and can be used as weapons in crimes.

3. They are realistic replicas of real guns and can easily scare people if seen in public.

4. They are dangerous.

5. The bullets are harmful to the environment.

1. Kitchen knives are incredibly easy to obtain therefore it is extremely easy for them to get in to the hands of people who aren't interested in using these weapons (not weapons, classified as toys) responsibily.

2. Any sharp( ie knife) or blunt object (baseball bat, hurley) can be used as a weapon in a crime AND HAS BEEN A HUNDREDFOLD MORE THAN ANY AIRSOFT DEVICE.

3. Consequences for showing in public are as real as showing a real weapon and thats as it should be. As would walking round waving a butcher knife about.

4. As are knives, baseball bats. cars , knitting needles etc

5. Biodegradable bb's are available and I don't think the amount used is going to melt the ****ing polar icecaps

6. Get a life

Sir Molle

If knives didn't have a practical application the value of which outweighed the danger they pose, then we should probably ban knives too. However that isn't the case, so there goes your argument.

What practical application do airsoft weapons have that outweighs the danger they pose to society? Enlighten me please.

Heckler

Sir Molle wrote: »

Knives have a practical application, airsoft weapons do not. If you can't understand why that difference matters then there is no point in discussing this further with you.

They are not weapons. They are classified by law as toys that fire a harmless projectile at less than 1 joule of energy. Like a nerf gun. Or a spud gun. Or a water gun. DO YOU UNDERSTAND.

Sir Molle

Heckler wrote: »

They are not weapons. They are classified by law as toys that fire a harmless projectile at less than 1 joule of energy. Like a nerf gun. Or a spud gun. Or a water gun. DO YOU UNDERSTAND.

If your little toys are used in a robbery it is most certainly a weapon. If it is fired at someone beyond the context of pretending to be soldiers for your "sport", then it is a weapon.

Heckler

Why does everything have to have a practical application ? I'm personally offended by footballers being paid 200,000 a week to kick an inflated bladder of leather about. Whats the practical application of a football ? I can guarantee you that 10 times more many kids were injured on footie fields this year than ever were with airsoft devices. Am I calling for a ban on footballs ? NOOOOO. Get a grip for Gods sake.

Sir Molle

Heckler wrote: »

Why does everything have to have a practical application ? I'm personally offended by footballers being paid 200,000 a week to kick an inflated bladder of leather about. Whats the practical application of a football ? I can guarantee you that 10 times more many kids were injured on footie fields this year than ever were with airsoft devices. Am I calling for a ban on footballs ? NOOOOO. Get a grip for Gods sake.

Try rob a bank with a football.

Also try reading my posts. Not everything needs to have a practical application if it is harmless. If something is dangerous how ever, unless the value of the practical use of it outweighs the danger value, then there's no real reason to have unnecessary risk.

jill_valentine

Look, I play Airsoft and The_Economist fancies me.

Should be all you need to know, one way or the other.

Heckler

Sir Molle wrote: »

If your little toys are used in a robbery it is most certainly a weapon. If it is fired at someone beyond the context of pretending to be soldiers for your "sport", then it is a weapon.

Check the statistics. The vast majority of weapons used in robberies are no.1 a blunt object i.e. a stick, baseball bat, hurley, ballpeen hammer no.2 a knife, screwdriver or other stabbing implement and no.3 a sawn-off shotgun. In most cases the sawnoff shotgun is a real weapon.

There are no airsoft sawnoff shotguns.

Sir Molle

Heckler wrote: »

Check the statistics. The vast majority of weapons used in robberies are no.1 a blunt object i.e. a stick, baseball bat, hurley, ballpeen hammer no.2 a knife, screwdriver or other stabbing implement and no.3 a sawn-off shotgun. In most cases the sawnoff shotgun is a real weapon.

There are no airsoft sawnoff shotguns.

Fine then, footballs don't scare the living shit out of everyone when you carry one around in public.

Also, what is to stop someone using an airsoft weapon in a robbery or to threaten someone? What about all of the unreported cases where airsoft weapons have been used maliciously.

Heckler

Sir Molle wrote: »

Try rob a bank with a football.

Also try reading my posts. Not everything needs to have a practical application if it is harmless. If something is dangerous how ever, unless the value of the practical use of it outweighs the danger value, then there's no real reason to have unnecessary risk.

And who decides the ratio of risk to value ? You ? Then we would all be back in the stone age renouncing the wheel because someone might get knocked down.

Sir Molle

Heckler wrote: »

Then we would all be back in the stone age renouncing the wheel because someone might get knocked down.

Jesus, re-read my post about risk vs reward. Risk vs Reward isn't too hard a concept to grasp. I don't know why you're having so much trouble with it.


And yes, I get to decide what is acceptable risk vs reward when deciding my opinion about a matter like this.

Sir Molle

Ahaha, I just saw in the Airsoft forum that there's a thread about people threatening to start shooting airsoft guns in protest at an event in Galway. I rest my case.

Heckler

I understand the concept but just because you decide on one thing doesn't make it law. Its your opinion nothing else. As my opinion is mine alone as well. Thats the great thing about opinions. Like assholes, everybody has one.

amaughan

Sir Molle wrote: »

Knives have a practical application, airsoft weapons do not. If you can't understand why that difference matters then there is no point in discussing this further with you.

again what practical application do golf clubs, hurls, tennis rackets etc etc.have.there practical applications are the main factors to enjoying the sport.just like tennis,golf,hurling.

Sir Molle

Heckler wrote: »

I understand the concept but just because you decide on one thing doesn't make it law. Its your opinion nothing else. As my opinion is mine alone as well. Thats the great thing about opinions. Like assholes, everybody has one.

Yeah great, but what does that have to do with anything we're discussing?

Heckler

Sir Molle wrote: »

Ahaha, I just saw in the Airsoft forum that there's a thread about people threatening to start shooting airsoft guns in protest at an event in Galway. I rest my case.

And how does a bunch of idiots threatening that make your case ? If a renegade bunch of plus foured golfers threatened the same would you be calling on a ban on golf ?

Sir Molle

amaughan wrote: »

again what practical application do golf clubs, hurls, tennis rackets etc etc.have.there practical applications are the main factors to enjoying the sport.just like tennis,golf,hurling.

If you're suggesting that the level of risk with a golf club or a hurl is the same as it is with an airsoft weapon, you're only fooling yourself.

Point a hurl at a cop and see what happens. Then point an airsoft gun at a cop and you wont be around to see what happens.

Heckler

Sir Molle wrote: »

If you're suggesting that the level of risk with a golf club or a hurl is the same as it is with an airsoft weapon, you're only fooling yourself.

Point a hurl at a cop and see what happens. Then point an airsoft gun at a cop and you wont be around to see what happens.

I don't disagree. Point an airsoft at an armed Guard and you deserve everything you get i.e. shot dead. Give me one example where this has happened. Plenty of documented cases where UNARMED guards have been assaulted with knives, bats etc.

amaughan

Sir Molle wrote: »

If your little toys are used in a robbery it is most certainly a weapon. If it is fired at someone beyond the context of pretending to be soldiers for your "sport", then it is a weapon.

and if you went into a bank with the intention of robbing it with a spoon that would be classified as a weapon.or a water pistol or a potato dressed up like a bloody grenade. the list is endless

Sir Molle

amaughan wrote: »

and if you went into a bank with the intention of robbing it with a spoon that would be classified as a weapon.or a water pistol or a potato dressed up like a bloody grenade. the list is endless

This is your argument...

amaughan

Sir Molle wrote: »

If you're suggesting that the level of risk with a golf club or a hurl is the same as it is with an airsoft weapon, you're only fooling yourself.

Point a hurl at a cop and see what happens. Then point an airsoft gun at a cop and you wont be around to see what happens.

try swinging the thing at him you would like a bit of a tool pointing a hurl at someone.anyway im out you just a very stubburn person looking for an argument to liven up ur evening.very sad haha bye bye

Heckler

My main point is that is it enough to ban airsoft devices because a very small minority may choose to use them for illegal purposes when many thousands use them as a sporting device every week ? I don't think so.

amaughan

Sir Molle wrote: »

This is your argument...

haha sad.cant even see the point.ponder on that haha

Sir Molle

Heckler wrote: »

My main point is that is it enough to ban airsoft devices because a very small minority may choose to use them for illegal purposes when many thousands use them as a sporting device every week ? I don't think so.

Airsoft is a pretty small "sport" in comparison to real sports, so it's understandable that you don't see them being used illegally a lot. Give it a couple more years of them being legal when more people have them and you'll have incidents happening more frequently.

They're like laser pens. They can be used with good intentions, but the fact that they're used quite frequently with out good intentions is enough to over rule it.

The most scary thing is that Airsoft weapons and retailers are not regulated by anyone to try and ensure that they're not being sold to the wrong people. You should need a licence at the very least with a full background check from the Gardaí at the very least.

Heckler

Going to have to agree to disagree. I gotta go to bed, work in the morning. I own both real guns and a few airsoft devices and I'll take up the argument with you tomorrow. Good to have a reasonable debate with you Sir without it getting nasty.

Captain Chaos

Sir Molle wrote: »

The most scary thing is that Airsoft weapons and retailers are not regulated by anyone to try and ensure that they're not being sold to the wrong people. You should need a licence at the very least with a full background check from the Gardaí at the very least.

It was the gards that were part of the reason of making airsoft devices legal in 2006. The reason they are not regulated is that they can do feck all harm apart from looking like the real thing.

Airsoft devices are not firearms in the eyes of the DoJ, where as a paint ball gun is classed as a firearm. It based on muzzle energy, a paintball gun will do alot more harm physically than any legal 1 joule airsoft device.

Heckler

I disagree with the garda background check but most retailers are strict enough about only selling to over 18's.

I hold a firearms cert for a real gun and the checks and safetys were fairly strict for that. Not needed for those checks for an airsoft device as they can do no harm.

weeder

just thought id add my 2c to this thread

Heckler wrote: »

Check the statistics. The vast majority of weapons used in robberies are no.1 a blunt object i.e. a stick, baseball bat, hurley, ballpeen hammer no.2 a knife, screwdriver or other stabbing implement and no.3 a sawn-off shotgun. In most cases the sawnoff shotgun is a real weapon.

There are no airsoft sawnoff shotguns.

In fairness there is
http://www.shortyusa.com/airsoft.html?http://www.shortyusa.com/cart/viewitem.html?II=1093&UID=1247625285-86.42.133.205&CA=&RID= ive got a springer version

Sir Molle wrote: »

If your little toys are used in a robbery it is most certainly a weapon. If it is fired at someone beyond the context of pretending to be soldiers for your "sport", then it is a weapon.

yes, but it does not become a weapon until misused, the same as a hurl,knife,screwdriver etc. Even real gun users dont refer to their guns as weapons.

jill_valentine wrote: »

Look, I play Airsoft and The_Economist fancies me.

Should be all you need to know, one way or the other.

Sir Molle wrote: »

If you're suggesting that the level of risk with a golf club or a hurl is the same as it is with an airsoft weapon, you're only fooling yourself.

Point a hurl at a cop and see what happens. Then point an airsoft gun at a cop and you wont be around to see what happens.

Well swing a hurl at a guard and your going to jail. shoot an airsoft at him and youll have it confiscated and probabaly get off with a warning, that is until the CJB 09 comes into effect

Sir Molle wrote: »

Airsoft is a pretty small "sport" in comparison to real sports, so it's understandable that you don't see them being used illegally a lot. Give it a couple more years of them being legal when more people have them and you'll have incidents happening more frequently.

They're like laser pens. They can be used with good intentions, but the fact that they're used quite frequently with out good intentions is enough to over rule it.

The most scary thing is that Airsoft weapons and retailers are not regulated by anyone to try and ensure that they're not being sold to the wrong people. You should need a licence at the very least with a full background check from the Gardaí at the very least.

I wont deny that airsoft has been used for criminal activities in ireland,the DOJ confirmed this as far as i am remembering, You should read the new criminal justice bill where it refers to "realistic imitation firearms", Carrying an airsoft gun in public is about to be turned into a crime punishable by 5 years in the slammer, retailers will be requireing a permit to sell RIF's, now as an airsofter i absolutely welcome this new legislation as perhaps it will stop people screaming BAN IT! somewhat


also in fairness to pick up a fairly realistic looking airsoft pistol in most cases you are looking to pay more than you would get a real one for on the irish black market

The_Joker

Degsy wrote: »

I assure you i get out plenty..and when i do its not running round fields with a bunch of overweight men with toy guns.

Now that about beats it all, all this coming from a LIBRARIAN!

Blowfish

Sir Molle wrote: »

If you're suggesting that the level of risk with a golf club or a hurl is the same as it is with an airsoft weapon, you're only fooling yourself.

Really? Personally I'd prefer to be shot with an airsoft gun than hit with a golf club/hurl. Golf clubs/hurl's can do massive damage to you, an airsoft gun will give you a red bump.

Degsy

The_Joker wrote: »

Now that about beats it all, all this coming from a LIBRARIAN!

Being a libaraian is my JOB not my HOBBY!

Do you see the difefrence?

Also to the person who said you cant get airsoft shotguns..
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.fairchildgiftcompany.shoppingcartsplus.com/i/airsoft%2520guns/Airsoft_shotgun_chrome_style.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.fairchildgiftcompany.shoppingcartsplus.com/catalog/item/1669331/1463794.htm&h=418&w=640&sz=18&tbnid=qjfSqRwDtAfRmM:&tbnh=89&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dairsoft%2Bshotgun&hl=en&usg=__kwgQLRhZcoSg_nxwie96gADB_n0=&ei=qaNdSofHJ5LQ-Qaso93mAQ&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=6&ct=image..

Degsy

Blowfish wrote: »

Really? Personally I'd prefer to be shot with an airsoft gun than hit with a golf club/hurl. Golf clubs/hurl's can do massive damage to you, an airsoft gun will give you a red bump.

An airsof replica of a real gun is indistinguisable to the person having it jammed against thier head by a scumbag intent on robbing.
You may get more of aphysical injury from a golf-club (assuming somebody would use one in a robbery..unlikely) but the MENTAL damage from being held-up at "gun"point is far more damaging.I know people that've had to give up thier jobs because they couldnt face going back to work after being robbed..they werent physically hurt at all but that doesnt matter.

jkrowling

Seriously come on now, my son and his friends were chasing each other round firing pellet guns at each other last week at close range and only had slight brusining, if even that.

Now don't get me wrong, I do not for one moment condone the use of pellet guns nor children firing them at each other but just want to bring to light that these do not do the type of damage that the press are making out. I might add here that he did not notice until he returned back to the depot what had happened so obviously he was extremely hurt and injured

As usuall, the press see this as an oppertunity to make Finglas look like something from South Side Jamica Queens and as usuall have blown the issue all out of proportion. We have gone from reports yesterday saying he was shot with a pellet gun to now it just being referred to him being "shot". Is it any wonder people think poorly of Finglas.

I have lived in finglas my whole life and would never contemplate moving. I am not a scum bag scobie, pjama wearing single mother scrounging off the state. I own my own house, work full time and pay my taxes however a mere mention of where I live prompts people to automatically think I'm the ultimate Colloquialism of Finglas folk and this new story will not help peoples perceptions much. I know it's not just finglas folk who get this, other areas are painted with the same brush. People forgot thatevery areas has it's own collective group of scum it's just that saying there was a shooting in Clontarf or Donnybrook doesn't have the same ring to it as saying it happened in Finglas or Tallaght.

It's not where your brought up it's how your brought up People.

Rant over

stovelid

It's an overreaction because of where it happened, and the current media fixation with gun-crime.

We occasionally did equally bad stuff with pellet-guns, catapults and the like when we were kids and civilization just about survived.

Degsy

jkrowling wrote: »

Seriously come on now, my son and his friends were chasing each other round firing pellet guns at each other last week at close range and only had slight brusining, if even that.

You do know that you need a firearms certificate for an actual pellet gun?

TheDoc

I just find it lol people playing airsoft "nerds".

What constitutes it as nerdy? From your descriptions, I'm obviously not playing with the airsofters you are describing.

Surely by your depiction, I should be running around with stick thin boggle eyed thick rimmed glasses players. Who at lunch, will only talk about Dungeons and Dragons, the new hardware upgrades in the iphone, have a debate over linux and windows?

Your talking out of your arse.....maybe your considering it nerdy because of the money we splash on our kit? Maybe your jealous that we have money to spend on toy guns? Feel free to come out with your real gripes?

I play golf and down the years have spent thousand on equipment. I played football where it was €100 euro every 3-4 months for a new pair of boots.

We play our sport in closed of airsoft site, usually located away from housing or anything, but with some located near busy roads or estates, and all the better, gets more players.
And it is a sport, you could put the same arguement for any sport, that makes it a sport... the fact that there is national and international competitions makes it a sport.

If there was "biggest ill informed poster championships 09" Youd be a front runer....

What annoyance is it to you, if we play our game in a field in the backarse of nowhere?

And your comment on "acquiring " airsoft guns easily is beyond laughable. Anyone can buy a knife, a hurley a golf club or a baseball bat..... I work in one of the most prominent airsoft stores in the country, and we work by strict company guidelines, under law a two year old has the legal right to purchase an airsoft gun. However thankfully there is good, moral retailers out there, who only sell to over 18's, and if someone come in that looks like scum, sounds like scum, they don't get sold too, end off. It is not segregation or discrimination, it is a simple case of I don't have to sell to anyone, if I don't feel comfortable doing it.

To the naysayers, what sport do you do,and let me nit pick it for its "threats" and "dangers". It is easy to point the finger at airsoft guns and say they are stupid and dangerous, but you will never see an airsofter, who plays the game, misusing or mishandling his/her equipment.

Also your comments about " go fire real guns" is a joke too. Most people have, as being explained alot of airsofters are current/ex-serving miltiary, from both national and international armies.

And you tell me where I can get a license for a HK 416 or Colt m16a1 vietnam, and I'll gladly apply for it.

O wait...you cannot get a license for a fully automatic rifle...and you cant acquire 5.56 calibre rounds....and o yeah, license are giving by a local Supers discretion, and if the local super doesnt want to, you dont get one.

I'll take my collection of "toy" guns of .22 shooters anyday thanks...

TheDoc

Degsy wrote: »

You do know that you need a firearms certificate for an actual pellet gun?

Pellet guns are the common term for "Cheap soft" probably something that cost less then €50 and requires the slide to be cocked after every BB fired. These pistols fire at an extremely low muzzle velocity, therefore do not require a license.

RasTa

Can't we just shoot everybody from Finglas? Mostly full of knackers scamming the dole and shooting postmen.

TheDoc

RasTa wrote: »

Can't we just shoot everybody from Finglas? Mostly full of knackers scamming the dole and shooting postmen.

Sounds like great grounds for a Battle Royale-esque type scenario.

Except all the neck braces explode in a domino effect, 2 second gap, just to make it funnier for those watching.

mle1324

Degsy wrote: »

You do know that you need a firearms certificate for an actual pellet gun?

You really have f all knowledge of what is being discussed here.

YOU DO NOT NEED A LICENSE TO OWN A AIRSOFT DEVICE.

And no we cant just shoot every one from Finglas,you obvisiously dont have any knowledge of Finglas if you are saying things like that and to me are just a troll:mad: