New motorway signs up already...

BluntGuy

Well all I know is that those flap-style signs are wrong. I mean, you could argue that since the roundabout isn't under motorway regulations and the motorway actually ends BEFORE the junction with the roundabout (so the roundabout is an N8/N25 junction southbound rather than an M8/N25 junction), it's correct. But the fact it's on a mainline means it should be blue with green patching (or even just blue since there's technically a junction of sorts before the N25/N8 junction).

As for the sign icdg pointed out, it's horrible. It should all be blue, or should all be patched, not an awkward mix of the two.

Seems to me the NRA have tried to do the minimum here, which is dissappointing because (this excluded) the new signage on all routes that has been posted here has been excellent.

And WHEN are the NRA going to get their act together when it comes to emergency phone provision?

Tech3

M20 J3 ADS 1km. Alot better than the previous green signage that was there it must be said.

Zoney

There was a separate white sign with Raheen Industrial Estate etc. on it so I'm guessing this replaces that one too. The H for the Midwest Regional hospital seems a bit squeezed in though. Also unlike the other destinations it's not reached by the R510, but rather the R526 (even though one is on the R510 between Dell and Loughmore roundabouts).

mackerski

nordydan wrote: »

Still no signs up on the redeisgnated N3 section. Came down that way yesterday

That piece of N3 is going to be a bit of a problem - because until they have tied the northern end into the new construction as far as Pace interchange, It will be tricky for them to have a consistently signed southbound route.

Northbound seems OK, they can easily turn that blue from Clonee exit to where the old road joins at Loughsallagh. Southbound you'd have to commence the regulations at the northern Clonee exit - The problem is that _any_ signs they would erect to inform of this would be sub-optimal. For instance, the existing fork sign will, in the long term, need to be replaced with an all-blue version. But today, prohibited traffic has to be allowed transit over this section of what is to become motorway - in fact, by the letter of the redesignation, it will become secret (I'm guessing) motorway from the 28th, as Pace is nowhere near completion.

Carawaystick

icdg wrote: »

Nice to see Limerick getting its first motorways.

Limerick's had a motorway since the M8 was designated between Cahir and Mitchelstown..... but no signs in Co. Limerick.....


The sign on the N8 approaching Dunkettle hasn't been changed yet, It's still as it was pre-redesignetion isn't it?
I think the changable signs are a much better idea than the non changable signs that direct port traffic from the M11 around the M50 to the the first Variable sign near Tallaght or somewhere.....

G_R

i saw in a few of the pics that it says "N8" on the road in some places. Do ye reckon they will get round to changing these to M

Amtmann

They *should* do this when the delineation starts.

icdg

mackerski wrote: »

That piece of N3 is going to be a bit of a problem - because until they have tied the northern end into the new construction as far as Pace interchange, It will be tricky for them to have a consistently signed southbound route.

Northbound seems OK, they can easily turn that blue from Clonee exit to where the old road joins at Loughsallagh. Southbound you'd have to commence the regulations at the northern Clonee exit - The problem is that _any_ signs they would erect to inform of this would be sub-optimal. For instance, the existing fork sign will, in the long term, need to be replaced with an all-blue version. But today, prohibited traffic has to be allowed transit over this section of what is to become motorway - in fact, by the letter of the redesignation, it will become secret (I'm guessing) motorway from the 28th, as Pace is nowhere near completion.

In any case, if they do redesignate it on the ground, it will mean all of 2 ADSs being replaced on the northbound carriage. The piece of road open in question is VERY short - less than 2km.

jd

Was on n11 today, they were removing the cats eyes on the Gorey by-pass, presumably so they could re-paint the carriageway markings. On the way back to Dublin (I was coming from Courtown), I noticed that the new (blue) sign at the Inch (J22) junction also indicated Gorey (North)

Amtmann

^^ That's the delineation underway so. Excellent. Given that the re-signing happened virtually simultaneously across the country, so too should the delineation. It's a quick process anyway.

BluntGuy

Furet wrote: »

They *should* do this when the delineation starts.

Considering that when the Watergrasshill Bypass became part of the Fermoy Bypass M8 section they didn't bother, I wouldn't be so hopeful.

Besides, judging by the mess at J14, the burn marks would look awful and you probably wouldn't be able to see the "M8" anyway, it would just look like a smudgey white paint spillage.

You're probably better off waiting for the traffic to clear and then getting a white piece of chalk and slapping on the the extra lines required to make an "M" from "N" yourself.

BluntGuy

BluntGuy wrote: »

Considering that when the Watergrasshill Bypass became part of the Fermoy Bypass M8 section they didn't bother, I wouldn't be so hopeful.

Besides, judging by the mess at J14, the burn marks would look awful and you probably wouldn't be able to see the "M8" anyway, it would just look like a smudgey white paint spillage.

You're probably better off waiting for the traffic to clear and then getting a white piece of chalk and slapping on the the extra lines required to make an "M" from "N" yourself.

It would make more sense if the new markings were placed at a slightly different location, just before or after, rather than directly on top of the burn marks.

BluntGuy

Deleted User wrote: »

It would make more sense if the new markings were placed at a slightly different location, just before or after, rather than directly on top of the burn marks.

The NRA aren't quite that imaginative I'm afraid.

You'll either get the messy situation I described above, or they'll put down new "M8" markings and leave the old ones.

One things for sure though, it won't be done right!

Because even at the best of times, the NRA has to find one little way to screw it up. :mad:

Chris_533976

Well the bad news is that they've patched the dodgy gantries east of Dunkettle with M8s. Those things need replacing. They also havent done the other flap signs. Will see if I can get pics later.

The N25 is in a shocking state, its covered in 2 foot high weeds and most of the signs are obscured. On the other hand, the two roundabouts at the Cobh exit are absolutely immaculate, being maintained by Millipore. There was even someone with a chisel knocking earth and weeds off the kerbstones the other day.

BluntGuy

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Well the bad news is that they've patched the dodgy gantries east of Dunkettle with M8s. Those things need replacing. They also havent done the other flap signs. Will see if I can get pics later.

Which gantries are you referring to. The ones on the N8 approaching Dunkettle from the city centre?

Chris_533976

The ones approaching from the east just after Little Island and before the tunnel, where its 'one sign per lane' and repitition across lanes.

BrianD

mackerski wrote: »

That piece of N3 is going to be a bit of a problem - because until they have tied the northern end into the new construction as far as Pace interchange, It will be tricky for them to have a consistently signed southbound route.

Northbound seems OK, they can easily turn that blue from Clonee exit to where the old road joins at Loughsallagh. Southbound you'd have to commence the regulations at the northern Clonee exit - The problem is that _any_ signs they would erect to inform of this would be sub-optimal. For instance, the existing fork sign will, in the long term, need to be replaced with an all-blue version. But today, prohibited traffic has to be allowed transit over this section of what is to become motorway - in fact, by the letter of the redesignation, it will become secret (I'm guessing) motorway from the 28th, as Pace is nowhere near completion.

I presume that even though it is redesignated a motorway that the local authority/NRA can delay the implementation of the order.

It would be very foolish of them to redesignate 1km or road for the sake of it particularly as it is so close to major roadworks.

BluntGuy

Chris_533976 wrote: »

The ones approaching from the east just after Little Island and before the tunnel, where its 'one sign per lane' and repitition across lanes.

Atrocious.

So a half-assed patching job is all we're getting?

nordydan

Took a trip down the N11(M11), only the southernmost section between Arklow South and the terminus south of Gorey has been resigned, although nearly all the other poles are in place.
All of the cats eyes in this section moved to allow the lines to be painted.

Part 1 southbound:

nordydan

Part 2 southbound:

nordydan

Part 1 Northbound again:

nordydan

Part 2 Northbound :

nordydan

Part 3 Northbound:

Zoney

Signs going up on M20 southbound today, as well as a lot of roundabout signs off the junctions - including all the way onto the R526 at Ballycummin (roundabout for R510 link road to M20 spur and industrial estate back entrance). There was one erroneous blue arrow sign off that roundabout - it should have been white with blue patch for M20 (the roundabout exit leads onto R510, not M20). Didn't entirely notice if the error was compounded by motorway chopsticks but I think they weren't on it.

loyatemu

alright roadsign geeks - whats the protocol for having destinations in brackets.? On one of the M11 signs above, Wicklow is in brackets but Arklow is not.

Now in the past this was obvious, the old N11 went through Arklow, but not through Wicklow. But the new motorways don't actually go through any towns and in this case you have to turn off the motorway to get to either destination...

mackerski

BrianD wrote: »

I presume that even though it is redesignated a motorway that the local authority/NRA can delay the implementation of the order.

I can't see how - what makes it a motorway is the minister declaring it to be one and he is doing so with effect on the 28th of the month. Rather practically, this will change the speed limit to 120km/h unless the council passes a bye-law or works limit to negate the motorway default.

Wild Bill

Great stuff from a bus! I well understand not telling anyone in real life about road fetishes! I drove all the way to Ballinsloe and back last week just to see the new bit of M6! btw; M50 to Ballinasloe in 1 hour 15 minutes - amazing, without exceeding the speed limit. (OK, maybe on the Athlone bypass).

icdg

loyatemu wrote: »

alright roadsign geeks - whats the protocol for having destinations in brackets.? On one of the M11 signs above, Wicklow is in brackets but Arklow is not.

Now in the past this was obvious, the old N11 went through Arklow, but not through Wicklow. But the new motorways don't actually go through any towns and in this case you have to turn off the motorway to get to either destination...

For all-purpose roads the protocol (and this applies really to route confirmation signs only and not other directional signs) is that destinations which can be reached directly by the route number in question are not bracketed, destinations which can be reached by other routes are bracketed.

With motorways it is a bit different obviously, but the same principle applies usually. So take on the M4. You can directly reach Kinnegad from the M4 (even though it is not *on*) the M4, but to get to Kilbeggan, you need to take the M6. So on an M4 RCS, Kilbeggan should be bracketed but Kinnegad should not.

ardmacha

This features the "truss" type post. This is also on the M1, is it used for these large signs everywhere?

Chris_533976

They seem to be a new style and have appeared also on the newly reclassified parts of the M8.

Zoney

ardmacha wrote: »

This features the "truss" type post. This is also on the M1, is it used for these large signs everywhere?

It appears to be used for many unprotected signs on the to-be M20, but H beams and the usual large poles are used behind crash barriers.

There are older examples on the M7 Kildare bypass, and some on the N52 Nenagh bypass.

Carawaystick

regarding the bracketed naming convention, in the example of Wicklow vs Arklow, Wicklow is not near the n/M11, it's several km to anyplace called Wicklow, whereas in Arklow's case, both Hills Garage and the Kish Bridge are reasonable in Arklow.

Also back on topic, there's been no lining or signing on the Arklow bypass southbound.

icdg

mackerski wrote: »

I can't see how - what makes it a motorway is the minister declaring it to be one and he is doing so with effect on the 28th of the month. Rather practically, this will change the speed limit to 120km/h unless the council passes a bye-law or works limit to negate the motorway default.

Regardless of this, the N3 seems to be the only one of the redesgnated roads - apart from the short section of N4 we've heard nothing about on this thread - where there (with less than 3 weeks to go) has been absolutely no work done on implementing the redesignation on the ground whatsoever.

I'll be taking a trip up the M4 the week after next so if no-one's posted anything by then I may take a look and see what the situation is with Kinnegad-McNead's Bridge.

SeanW

I was on a bus up to Dublin a few days ago. Workmen and vans were out removing the "cats eyes" from the yellow lines between Kinnegad and McNeads Bridge, Westbound on the N4. They must be about to (or proceeding to) repaint the yellow line.

Wild Bill

I think the M4 extension involves about one major sign in each direction - lots of time left!

BrianD

icdg wrote: »

Regardless of this, the N3 seems to be the only one of the redesgnated roads - apart from the short section of N4 we've heard nothing about on this thread - where there (with less than 3 weeks to go) has been absolutely no work done on implementing the redesignation on the ground whatsoever.

I'll be taking a trip up the M4 the week after next so if no-one's posted anything by then I may take a look and see what the situation is with Kinnegad-McNead's Bridge.

Actually, I don't think it can be redesignated until the roadworks are completed as there is no alternative route for non-motorway traffic so it's unlikely that we'll see this happen in the short term.

Carawaystick

Carawaystick wrote: »

there's been no lining or signing on the Arklow bypass southbound.

I was on the Gorey bypass today, there are the poles up at J21 (Arklow south) right at the beginning and end of the slips, presumably for the Motorway/end of Motorway signs. THere's still green N11 signs up along with blue signs and blue patches on the signs approaching the junction roundabouts.
THere's no lining done on the Gorey section of the road, but the yellow cateyes are on the right hand side of the yellow line, so it's be easy to just paint.

mackerski

BrianD wrote: »

Actually, I don't think it can be redesignated until the roadworks are completed as there is no alternative route for non-motorway traffic so it's unlikely that we'll see this happen in the short term.

I agree that it will likely not be resigned. But the fact remains that the minister's signature is on a document that will make this section a (secret, maybe) motorway from that date. This means that prohibited traffic is in theory barred and the speed limit will indeed be 120.

Zoney

mackerski wrote: »

This means that prohibited traffic is in theory barred and the speed limit will indeed be 120.

Isn't the speed limit whatever is signposted? We no longer have national speed limits (white sign with black line) - the motorway/national road default is only the default limit that *may* be applied but higher or lower limits may be applied - hence just because a road is reclassified motorway doesn't prevent a 100 km/h limit remaining in force until re-signed.

mackerski

Zoney wrote: »

Isn't the speed limit whatever is signposted?

I don't think it ever has been. A sign on the ground only has effect when backed by either:

1. A speed limit bye-law
2. A works speed limit order
3. A default speed limit for the class of road (and we do still have these)

Zoney wrote: »

We no longer have national speed limits (white sign with black line) - the motorway/national road default is only the default limit that *may* be applied but higher or lower limits may be applied - hence just because a road is reclassified motorway doesn't prevent a 100 km/h limit remaining in force until re-signed.

We may no longer have the NSL sign, but we do most certainly have default speed limits by road class. This is how we end up with the daftness of a speed limit going from 100 down to 80 just because the road has been de-trunked. Motorways carry a default speed limit of 120 which, in the absence of an order to the contrary, will apply to the secret M3. It's the exact converse of what happens with the detrunked roads.

KevR

Cat's Eyes have been moved on the N/M18 Soutbound the whole way to Shannon; a fair lot moved on the Northbound carriageway also.

Majority of signs have been replaced Southbound; I don't think any yet Northbound.

Interesting that there is a "Next Exit in 1.8km" sign (as opposed to the usual "Next Exit in 2km" signs) on the Soutbound M18. Any other variants like this around the country?

L1011

KevR wrote: »

Interesting that there is a "Next Exit in 1.8km" sign (as opposed to the usual "Next Exit in 2km" signs) on the Soutbound M18. Any other variants like this around the country?

Next Exit 4km for the N8 junction on the M7 is all I can think of.

We don't usually go for that level of precision on signs, all I can think of other than that are the 135m and 85m distances on signs for the level crossing in Clonsilla - its around a blind corner complex so they need to let you know where it is!

Chris_533976

Did Cork to Galway today.

Coming to Dunkettle along the N25 from the east. Patched Dodgy Gantries.





Can someone cover Dunkettle from the West Theres an interesting (M8) gantry floating about, not sure if its even close t o right.

M20 going north ->





Oh dear.












No M18s, as there are no signs changed at all northbound, even though the cats eyes have moved.

icdg

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Did Cork to Galway today.

Coming to Dunkettle along the N25 from the east. Patched Dodgy Gantries.

Noooo....I thought we had seen the last of these. Most of the dodgey gantries in Dublin have now been removed and I think there is only one or two remaining on the N2 southbound approaching the M50 junction.

Please NRA/Cork County Council, get rid of it, sooner rather than later...

BTW...the NRA know that Motorway font has an "N" in it, right? Because the sign above (the one at M20 J3) looks like the N is in Transport!

Amtmann

Can I ask, what do people consider dodgy about the above gantry? It seems well patched to me...

Zoney

It's one of the "dodgy gantries" as in the single panel per lane always ones that NRA came up with all by themselves and although in this case the separate panel for N25 is OK (unlike the situation on some M50 panels where the same arrangement was used for a lane that one could also stay in for straight-on), one of the two panels on the right is redundant - there should be a single panel spanning the two lanes with Cork and Limerick just once.

The patching seems mostly OK - albeit it should probably be just M8 on blue. It's a bit odd due to the massive N25 above - another feature of the NRA's "I did it myself" gantry design (the panel would make more sense with N25 beside South Ring and then the M8 wouldn't seem as misplaced).

murphaph

icdg wrote: »

BTW...the NRA know that Motorway font has an "N" in it, right? Because the sign above (the one at M20 J3) looks like the N is in Transport!

The original (UK TSM) Motorway Permanent font only had A, B and M and the digits 0-9. I wasn't aware of any additions to it by us? Would be great if we have designed an 'N' and 'R' in Motorway.

csd

Furet wrote: »

Can I ask, what do people consider dodgy about the above gantry? It seems well patched to me...

Lanes 2 and 3 go to the same destinations, so why have two discrete panels when one big one would be much better, and not force the driver to read the same information twice in order to ensure he/she is in the correct lane?

/csd

armada104

murphaph wrote: »

The original (UK TSM) Motorway Permanent font only had A, B and M and the digits 0-9. I wasn't aware of any additions to it by us? Would be great if we have designed an 'N' and 'R' in Motorway.

It also had also N, S, E and W (I'm sure you can guess what for). So there was never any need to create an N, and from the pictures on this thread the NRA seem to be happy enough to use the R from Transport.

This mistake is quite odd, as it can't be pinned on laziness. If anything it's more troublesome to create brackets and figures in one font, and stick an N in a different font in the middle.

Have just realised that the above is the saddest thing I've ever written. For some reason I love all this pedantry.

Once upon a time, we just had trainspotters, notiing down loco numbers, now we have roadsign fontspotters.