New motorway signs up already...

Carawaystick

so do the redesignations kick in at midnight on the day or is there some other time?

regarding the Maybush, how many times has the Newtownmountkennedy bypass been burned? it has had Maybush alongside since it was built in the 80s.

Regarding the speed limit sign placement, the limit should be at the start of the slip. Assuming the car is moving at the previous limit of 80km/h, then why shouldn't the driver accelerate as soon as the motorway restrictions start? if it's safe to drive at the speed, then because others have less powerful cars shouldn't limit those who have medium to high powered cars.
The M50 at the N3 junction used have the 120km/h limit signs way down the onslip, forcing cars to trundle along at 60 km/h for no good reason, then they would have to accelerate uphill once the limit increased to merge on the mainline.
On the M1 Southbound onslip at Lissenhall, the 120km/h limit sign is a about a hundred metres down the slip. I've seen at least one car "speeding" jam on when they say a cop bike coming down the slip behind them. This isn't safe.

Tech3

Zoney wrote: »

Will they swap the green bollard for a blue one at the split in the second photo above?

A lot of bustle at M20 J1/M7 J30, looks like they are preparing to move traffic onto new M7 mainline/slip from M7 west to M20 south. Also I wonder if M20 north isn't just going to be joined up to M7 east via the new loop even before phase 2 opens - with access to Childers Road cut off early so they can build on top of where the roundabout is at present and finish the junction. All M20 north traffic after J2 (Dooradoyle) would then have to go up M7 east to Ballysimon (N24) junction to get access to Limerick city.

I predict a lot of shouting if this happens.

It does look like M7 west will be linked to the M20 south very soon. I thought M20 north to M7 east is going under the N7 mainline?

I agree it will be harder to access the city centre, J2 is a bit too far out, I would prefer to access it from the M7 J29 before the dock rd interchange is done. I don't have to deal with this issue thankfully as I live on the Raheen side.

Wild Bill

Carawaystick wrote: »

regarding the Maybush, how many times has the Newtownmountkennedy bypass been burned? it has had Maybush alongside since it was built in the 80s.

Yellow Maybush on the Newtown bypass? I'm thinking we aren't talking the same bush!

This furze (aka gorse) is what burns:

JayeL

Today's Tuesday and Redesignation Day is this Friday. So when are they sticking up the Motorway Regulations signage? Surely they're needed, yet no sign as yet for the M2 anyway.

Given there's a 5-arm roundabout where the R125 and the R135 meet a link road to and from the M2, I would've thought all roads leading to it would have such signs, to give adequate warning of a motorway ahead, to the left or to the right. And because of the Official Languages Act, two signs have to go up at each location.

Any sign of them anywhere, even covered up?

Wild Bill

I haven't seen one; but they only seem to put them at the start of Motorways in general. Never see them on a slip road. So I guess there is no legal requirement. I'd say the M-way symbols do the trick legally.

In fact, they should probably abolish those regulation signs; they are ugly, unreadable and the whole idea of symbols is that they have a meaning that doesn't need to be spelled out. Might have made some sense 20 years ago when the Naas Bypass was built but we are all expected to be able to interpret the signs in the rules of the roads.

Zoney

Wild Bill:

Even so you'd expect to see them e.g. on N18 northbound just before it becomes M18 - but probably also N21 eastbound approaching M20, and various other locations.

It looks like there won't be *any* though.

nordydan

I think I saw them up somewhere near the end of the Gorey Bypass, covered in mud (or whatever the grey paste they use to cover the signs is).

BluntGuy

I reckon they'll be the last things to go up, if at all.

If no poles are in place at this stage however, then it's unlikely.

murphaph

the NO! signs (as they call them on sabre) are old fashioned (in either language) and should be dispensed with. The motorway symbol is sufficient to inform road users that they are about to enter a motorway and they are required to know the rules surrounding motorway use to drive the vehicle (or walk on a public highway) in the first place.

Empire o de Sun

The only things you need to read when driving are

Destinations
Road Numbers
Distances

It is a pet hate of mine seeing (especially warning) signs with text when there is a sign for it. The motorway prohibition sign should be like they are in Spain. A few symbols showing what isn't allowed and the min speed.

Empire o de Sun

Or just the motorway sign should be enough

Alun

Empire o de Sun wrote: »

It is a pet hate of mine seeing (especially warning) signs with text when there is a sign for it.

+1000 A pet hate of mine are the yellow diamond signs on motorways with the symbol for 'traffic merging from left' with the text 'traffic merging from left' written underneath it on a separate rectangular panel. Talk about unnecessary.

murphaph

murphaph wrote: »

the NO! signs (as they call them on sabre) are old fashioned (in either language) and should be dispensed with. The motorway symbol is sufficient to inform road users that they are about to enter a motorway and they are required to know the rules surrounding motorway use to drive the vehicle (or walk on a public highway) in the first place.

Who reads them anyway! If you're going slow enough to read ALL the text, chances are you will be driving a prohibited vehicle.

icdg

Wild Bill wrote: »

I haven't seen one; but they only seem to put them at the start of Motorways in general. Never see them on a slip road. So I guess there is no legal requirement. I'd say the M-way symbols do the trick legally.

Have to say that I don't really know of any existing motorway junctions without them, although they are usually approaching the junction rather than on the slip road

In fact, they should probably abolish those regulation signs; they are ugly, unreadable and the whole idea of symbols is that they have a meaning that doesn't need to be spelled out. Might have made some sense 20 years ago when the Naas Bypass was built but we are all expected to be able to interpret the signs in the rules of the roads.

The UK did exactly as you suggested many moons ago (the late 1980s I think) on the grounds that motorways were so widespread and been around for so long that drivers should know what traffic is prohibited on them - the Start of Motorway Regulations sign should be enough. Now (apart from relics which still stand) the NO signs are gone in the UK, other than on non-motorway special roads like the A55 (which as they don't use the chopsticks sign, they still need to explicitly sign the regulations).

I should point out that if we are going to follow UK practice in this regard, we need to start putting Start of Motorway Regulations signs at the TOP of slip roads (not at the bottom, as at so many M4 and M7 junctions) and not forget them entirely sometimes (like at the Lucan start of the M4).

G_R

Deleted User wrote: »

Who reads them anyway! If you're going slow enough to read ALL the text, chances are you will be driving a prohibited vehicle.

we could change them to "If your able to read this, turn around"

Empire o de Sun

maybe something like this

G_R

any one got a map of motorways as of the 28th?

SeanW

Someone seems to have put them all (or most) in on openstreetmap.org they have the M4 extension, the M11 redesignations, the M18, M20, the expanded M8, and the M2. But I think a bit of the N3 is due for redesignation and that's not listed.

Anyone know if that map is complete? Or why someone changed the roads weeks ago?

nordydan

dannym08 wrote: »

any one got a map of motorways as of the 28th?

OSM

Tech3

SeanW wrote: »

Anyone know if that map is complete? Or why someone changed the roads weeks ago?

I think it was done weeks ago because it takes so long to register in different zooms on the map. I'm not too familiar with the N3 but what I gather is that only a very small section is being changed to motorway before the M3 PPP is complete. It's not on the map though.

nordydan

Some photos I took today at lunchtime (with phone poor quality - saw no point in taking more and the hard shoulder was coned off in places), I didn't head down to Arklow or further south but I can only imagine (hope) it is finished at this stage.

All lines are painted, but they have only started working on the southern end of this scheme. The signs around J17 are also up i.e. on the slip roads and leading roads.

Heading northbound there is a Motorway 1.2km Ahead sign up (I have no idea why they are insisting on this level of precision!) They were also taking down the dual carraigeway ahead signs up aswell when I went past.

The start of M11 signs are symmetrical as for the other schemes (i.e M11-chopsticks on the left, chopsticks-M11 on the right).

One sign I did notice at the northern end of the scheme was on the northern onbound sliproad at J14 (Cullenmore). There was a start of M11 with the chopsticks, clearly wrong (!) as the scheme ends over this junction :rolleyes:


Furthermore a link to a DoT article here:

http://www.transport.ie/pressRelease.aspx?Id=124

Reminder : Motorway Re-designations to take effect from Friday, 28 August, 2009

26 - 08 - 2009

Back to Press Releases


The Minister for Transport, Mr. Noel Dempsey, T.D., today reminded motorists that a total of 294km of national roads will gain motorway status from Friday, 28 August 2009.

Speaking today Minister Dempsey said; "The purpose of this move to re-designate 294km of national roads as motorways is to enhance and protect the national motorway network, the primary function of which is to allow people, goods and services to travel safely and efficiently throughout the country. This move will create a high degree of uniformity of speed limits across major sections of the national road network and protect this major public investment from inappropriate development."

The design speed of 120 kph will apply to all newly declared motorway sections unless special speed limits are in operation. (In particular, please note that all special speed limits (construction zones) will remain in place beyond August 28th, 2009.) In addition, the designation to motorway status will serve to protect the routes against inappropriate development, including multiple access points, which would have road safety implications and affect the efficiency and service life of the route.

Certain categories of road users are prohibited from using motorways, e.g. learner drivers, vehicles not exceeding 50 cc in engine capacity, vehicles not capable of a speed of 50 kph, pedestrians, and pedal cyclists.

Over the past 12 months, a total of 560 kms have been declared motorways. With the completion of all the Major Inter-Urban routes by end 2010, we will have almost 900kms of road at motorway standard open to traffic.

All relevant sections of road being declared as motorways are listed below:

N2 Dublin to Derry
Killshane to Ashbourne (open to traffic) 13 km

N3 Dublin to Cavan
Littlepace to Loughsallagh (open to traffic) 2.1 km
Loughsallagh to Pace (under construction) 2.3 km

N4 Dublin to Sligo
Kinnegad to McNead's Bridge (open to traffic) 6.8 km

N6 Dublin to Galway
Athlone to Ballinasloe (Open to traffic) 20 km
Ballinasloe to Galway (under construction) 51 km

N7 Dublin to Limerick
Limerick Southern Ring Road (Phase 1) (open to traffic) 8.5 km
N7/N20 Rossbrien Interchange (under construction) 1.5 km

N8 Dublin to Cork
Watergrasshill to Glanmire (open to traffic) 7 km
Glanmire Bypass (open to traffic) 6.3 km

N9 Dublin to Waterford
Powerstown to Waterford (under construction) 64 km

N11 Dublin to Wexford
Ashford to Rathnew (open to traffic) 8 km
Arklow Bypass (open to traffic) 7 km
Arklow to Gorey (open to traffic) 21 km

N18 Oranmore to Limerick
Shannon to Ennis (open to traffic) 8.3 km
Ennis Bypass (open to traffic) 12.5 km
Gort to Crusheen (under construction) 22 km
Oranmore to Gort (in planning) 28 km

N20 Cork to Limerick
Limerick to Attyflin (N20/N21 Junction) (open to traffic) 5 km

ENDS

nordydan

tech2 wrote: »

I think it was done weeks ago because it takes so long to register in different zooms on the map. I'm not too familiar with the N3 but what I gather is that only a very small section is being changed to motorway before the M3 PPP is complete. It's not on the map though.

It was updated weks ago, and has completely fed through now.
I think someone posted that they had remove the M3 section as there was little indication that it would be a viable stretch of motorway before the opening of the main M3 scheme.

Wild Bill

nordydan wrote: »

OSM

Very up-to-date! Must be one of you chaps here!

Chris_533976

Still no updates on the Athlone bypass?

Wild Bill

Approaching J17, M11....

.....closer....
http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae73/WildBillHiccup/IMG_0619-1.jpg

And more pics of the signs on the eastern (northbound) roundabout of Junction 17 (all taken yesterday - 26th August):

http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae73/WildBillHiccup/IMG_0622-1.jpg
http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae73/WildBillHiccup/IMG_0638-1.jpg
http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae73/WildBillHiccup/IMG_0632-1.jpg
http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae73/WildBillHiccup/IMG_0631-1.jpg
http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae73/WildBillHiccup/IMG_0627-1.jpg
http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae73/WildBillHiccup/IMG_0625-1.jpg
http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae73/WildBillHiccup/IMG_0633-1.jpg

SeanW

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Still no updates on the Athlone bypass?

The Athlone Bypass will not be redesignated on the 28th, hopefully it will be redesignated in another round of redesignations, along with the 'N'25 around Waterford.

Wild Bill

Anyone know why the Athlone BP was not redesignated?
(I have asked this question before only to be greeted with resounding silence from all you roadspotters )

Chris_533976

I knew it was still under consideration (they havent decided yet), was just wondering if there were any more updates The N25 at Waterford wont be redesignated. I think its really short sighted, but the NRA have no plans to M that. I guess since most of Midleton to Rosslare will be 2+2 with only some GSJs thrown in (Waterford, New Ross), its not worth it.

(I'm not 100% on whether it'll be 2+2 throughout, I'm guessing )

Zoney

I'll go off-topic just for this one post to briefly answer the following:

Wild Bill wrote: »

Anyone know why the Athlone BP was not redesignated?
(I have asked this question before only to be greeted with resounding silence from all you roadspotters )

I think you perhaps may have joined things here after all the noise about the Athlone bypass had died down. At one stage it was being furiously debated in three different threads. I do mean furiously...

Basically all the reclassifications had to go through a consultation phase, and objections were raised to the reclassification of the Athlone bypass.

I'll not go into more detail or give my opinions on the matter in this thread - as this is not a thread about the Athlone bypass. (sorry for the bold, but I thought an answer was needed but yet a discussion on the subject isn't for this thread).

bg07

Are there any other candidates for a 3rd tranche of re-designations other than the N25 and the Athlone bypass?

There are at least three other threads about the Athlone bypass (Motorway or not), both here and in infrastructure.

spank_inferno

Fair play to the government!

In a matter of days we have a new stretch of Motorway in Co Wicklow.
Some think it takes years but FF have shown otherwise

now if they could just re-designate the road from the M11/rathnew to Wicklow town a motorway we'd be in business!

Carawaystick

spank_inferno wrote: »

In a matter of days we have 2 new stretches of Motorway in Co Wicklow.

fixed yer post.

mackerski

SeanW wrote: »

Someone seems to have put them all (or most) in on openstreetmap.org they have the M4 extension, the M11 redesignations, the M18, M20, the expanded M8, and the M2. But I think a bit of the N3 is due for redesignation and that's not listed.

All redesignated sections are indeed on OSM with, as you say, the exception of the Clonee Bypass which legally becomes M3. It is omitted because OSM practice is to "Map what's on the ground". As of a week ago, the Clonee Bypass has a solid yellow line but no other trappings of motorway status, so a map user would have difficulty reconciling the map with the physical (apparent) reality if we were to redesignate on the map.

There's another practical reason too. As mentioned, the section in question will flow directly onto the section of M3 under construction. Included the legal scope of the redesignation is parts of the road that would, if taken seriously today, extinguish the through route for southbound traffic that is prohibited from motorways. The most pragmatic way to map the redesignation would be to pretend that motorway restrictions applied only south of the Clonee North exit - but again, I won't be doing that until the blue signs appear. Until then, this is a secret motorway that will continue to be traficked by bicycles and pedestrians.

icdg

Secret or not, Meath and Fingal County Councils have just slapped 100km/h Road Works Speed Limit Orders on the redesignated sections of M3. Gotta be the highest road works speed limit I have ever seen...

BluntGuy

I know I'm probably the only person boring enough to care about this, but are these roads technically motorway now?

What time does the change come into effect?

G_R

i don't think the Ministerial Order said a time, just a date so by default it would have to kick in at 00:01 i'd say.

wicklaman83

dannym08 wrote: »

i don't think the Ministerial Order said a time, just a date so by default it would have to kick in at 00:01 i'd say.

nope.it would be 00:00:01:D

icdg

icdg wrote: »

Secret or not, Meath and Fingal County Councils have just slapped 100km/h Road Works Speed Limit Orders on the redesignated sections of M3. Gotta be the highest road works speed limit I have ever seen...

They must have learned from the current M50 works so!

darren254

darren254 wrote: »

nope.it would be 00:00:01:D

For the truly pedantic! It's 00:00:00 as the new cay starts at the stroke of midnight not a second after

mackerski

icdg wrote: »

Secret or not, Meath and Fingal County Councils have just slapped 100km/h Road Works Speed Limit Orders on the redesignated sections of M3. Gotta be the highest road works speed limit I have ever seen...

Ah, I wondered whether that would happen. It effectively keeps the speed limit as it was. Hard to see why they would do this TBH - 100 was and is too slow a limit for this road.

cyclopath2001

mackerski wrote: »

Ah, I wondered whether that would happen. It effectively keeps the speed limit as it was. Hard to see why they would do this TBH - 100 was and is too slow a limit for this road.

The redesignation will mean that certain classes of vehicle (mostly slow-moving) will be excluded.

Keeping the limit at 100kph will probably mean that drivers will do 120 at most.

Tech3

I went on the M20 this morning after work from J3 to J4. There is still some work to be done, lining hasnt finished yet and chopsticks missing off J3. I stayed at 100km/hr as I wasnt sure what time the redesignations came into effect.

Wild Bill

tech2 wrote: »

I stayed at 100km/hr as I wasnt sure what time the redesignations came into effect.

Good Lord tech! Just been down the Naas Road (100 limit) and was being hassled in off the middle lane by tailgating vans. And I was doing 120! :mad:

Tech3

Wild Bill wrote: »

Good Lord tech! Just been down the Naas Road (100 limit) and was being hassled in off the middle lane by tailgating vans. And I was doing 120! :mad:

Was the inner lane free?

Empire o de Sun

Wild Bill wrote: »

Good Lord tech! Just been down the Naas Road (100 limit) and was being hassled in off the middle lane by tailgating vans. And I was doing 120! :mad:

No sympathy for you if the left lane was free. You must drive on the left unless overtaking. This is a big problem in Ireland ,many drivers, well it's a very high number of drivers driver in the middle lane on 3 lane sections. When the left most lane is free. So to overtake them you legally have to change from lane 1 to lane 3. It must be a "I can't be seen in the slow lane"

It's not a slow lane it's the left lane that you should be in.:cool:

mackerski

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

The redesignation will mean that certain classes of vehicle (mostly slow-moving) will be excluded.

Agreed - but in the absence of any motorway signs and given that the populace at large doesn't follow this thread, there will be no difference on the ground and I'd be amazed to see any enforcement. Is it a crazy way to legislate? You betcha, but then again, this is the kind of country where people use logic like:

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Keeping the limit at 100kph will probably mean that drivers will do 120 at most.

Zoney

There is an M20 sign just south of the M7/M20 Rosbrien junction on M20 southbound. Fine so far, it has "chopsticks" - however the problem with that is that it is *after* the slip road joining off the under-construction interchange - the traffic on that slip will be coming off the M7 westbound. So the M20 sign should be *before* the slip joins, only the traffic from Childers Road needs the start of motorway regulations sign. Traffic from the M7 only needs to see the M20 route confirmation sign after the junction.

G_R

darren254 wrote: »

nope.it would be 00:00:01:D

Deleted User wrote: »

For the truly pedantic! It's 00:00:00 as the new cay starts at the stroke of midnight not a second after

well if ye want to get technical about it:rolleyes:

G_R

i just updated the Wiki page on Motorways in the Republic of Ireland .

i think i got everything and i think all the details are correct but if someone more knowledgeable than I could look over it and ensure everything is ok it'd be great.

thanks guys