New motorway signs up already...

Amtmann

Listen: http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0828/roads_av.html

EDIT: Can anyone confirm that the M8 Glanmire Bypass's limit remains 100 km/h?

nordydan

According to my all knowing spreadsheet, in the Republic there is now approx 593 km of existing motorway (9.4 of which D4M) and a further 349km under construction. There is also 240km of DC (31km of which D3AP) and 41km UC.

NI has 109.4km of motorway (D5M 4km, D3M 9.7 km), 159km of DC (3.2km D3M ie Belfast Westlink) and 40km under construction

nordydan

Furet wrote: »

Listen: http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0828/roads_av.html

EDIT: Can anyone confirm that the M8 Glanmire Bypass's limit remains 100 km/h?

There's a video up now.

murphaph

mackerski wrote: »

All redesignated sections are indeed on OSM with, as you say, the exception of the Clonee Bypass which legally becomes M3. It is omitted because OSM practice is to "Map what's on the ground". As of a week ago, the Clonee Bypass has a solid yellow line but no other trappings of motorway status, so a map user would have difficulty reconciling the map with the physical (apparent) reality if we were to redesignate on the map.

Look at that rte piece. M3 now signed.

Stark

Yeah I saw the sign for M3 as I was coming towards it this morning.

I wonder if the M3 as it stands at present is currently the shortest motorway in the State

mackerski

Stark wrote: »

Yeah I saw the sign for M3 as I was coming towards it this morning.

I wonder if the M3 as it stands at present is currently the shortest motorway in the State

They snuck that one in at the last minute. So now it's a non-secret (out?) motorway, _and_ they've dropped the speed limit back to where it was. Hmm.

In any case, I've updated OpenStreetMap to reflect this, the online map is already displaying it except at lower zoom levels.

Edit: added map link

Tech3

Redesignation will be covered on TV3 news in a few mins. Good to see it was on the main headlines.

Chris_533976

Dismal job of it by TV3. They also claimed that all motorbikes are banned but only certain tractors. They were also talking about the slip roads on the M18 at Barefield etc and saying how they arent long enough, despite a view of a driver managing it perfectly.

Also for some reason when they started talking about the M18 they were showing pictures of the roundabout at Oranmore, which is far from any motorway at the moment.

They did point out that they couldnt see any 120kmh limits on the Ennis bypass.

Crap reporting though.

Amtmann

News Report: http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0828/roads_av.html

mackerski

Stark wrote: »

I wonder if the M3 as it stands at present is currently the shortest motorway in the State

Forgot to mention this - the M32 is the shortest by quite a wide margin.

oddiot

mackerski wrote: »

Forgot to mention this - the M32 is the shortest by quite a wide margin.

Yes, it even made it on to the 'pathetic motorways' site, which even has a scan of a map that actually labelled the stub as M32.

http://pathetic.org.uk/secretive/m32_ireland/maps/

mackerski

oddiot wrote: »

Yes, it even made it on to the 'pathetic motorways' site, which even has a scan of a map that actually labelled the stub as M32.

http://pathetic.org.uk/secretive/m32_ireland/maps/

It is, of course, not unique in this.

Wild Bill

Interesting map here of the Dept of Transport website:

http://www.transport.ie/uploads/documents/news/CwayTypeMid2009.pdf

The very latest picture - but spot the missing motorway!

Wild Bill

tech2 wrote: »

Was the inner lane free?

Occasionally.

Steviemak

Wild Bill wrote: »

The very latest picture - but spot the missing motorway!

Sloppy mistake

G_R

I'm not seeing it

i never was good at spot the difference/wheres waldo etc

deiseman21

athlone - ballinasloe

G_R

deiseman21 wrote: »

athlone - ballinasloe

aha, so there it is. thanks

Tech3

Farmers angry at being forced off new motorways

RECLASSIFYING roads as motorways will increase traffic snarl-ups and put pedestrians at risk by forcing farmers to drive heavy farm machinery through busy town centres, farmers claimed last night.

The problem is particularly acute in Arklow, Co Wicklow, where yesterday's redesignation of the Arklow bypass as a motorway has now forced farmers to drive through the busy town, with its narrow main street and a sharp junction particularly difficult to negotiate.

Local farmer James Hill said it is particularly galling as the bypass was originally built to relieve this problem, but now its designation as a motorway means farmers have no choice but to travel through the town again.

Clogging

He hauls grain to a Glanbia depot in Inch and like many other farmers around delivers straw to a mushroom compost operation near Gorey, all of which will now involve clogging up the busy town.

There is also a lot of farm traffic to and from Co Wicklow to Irish Country Meats in Camolin and to marts in Co Wexford, while some farmers have farm holdings on both sides of Arklow that they have to travel between all the time.

"In the past we could just sit into the hard shoulder on the bypass, and it was safer and quicker for everyone, this is going to cause huge problems," Mr Hill, who is IFA county chairman for Wicklow, said.

"You look at that tragedy in Avoca a few years ago, where two girls were killed by a long agricultural vehicle, and you can see it's not suitable to have to drive wide machinery through a busy town with unsuitable streets."

They have also been told they can rent a lorry and apply for special permits if they want to move a combine harvester or other equipment.

"That's a glib answer that shows no understanding of farming at all. You have to apply for a permit in advance, and get a garda escort, how can farmers do that when their work is dependent on the weather?" Mr Hill added.

It was also "mad" to be designating short stretches of the N11 as a motorway which then turned into a dual carriageway and then a single track road, because people ended up confused about what rules applied where, and this contributed to making it a very dangerous stretch of road, he said.

The National Roads Authority defended the decision to reclassify these roads as motorways despite the problems it caused farmers. "We have designated these as high quality motorways ... It might be a little less convenient, but there's no change to access. The motorway declarations were made on the basis there was alternative access," it said.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/farmers-angry-at-being-forced-off-new-motorways-1872834.html

Wild Bill

The N11 - my road most traveled! And the only National Primary where the farmers insist (dual or single sections) on driving their contraptions outside the hard should. Which is deadly dangerous even on a HQDC spec road. The farmer problem on its own more than justifies the re designation. :mad:

Redsoxfan

As I drove on it yesterday, and listened to a piece on the re designations on The Last Word, I wondered why the Collooney-Sligo stretch on the N4 wasn't included? Is it because it begins and ends with roundabouts? Or is it the alignment or curvature? The junctions are grade separated.

Chris_533976

The NRA say they dont want random bits of motorway floating around miles from the rest of the network. That explains why that Sligo section wasnt done, explains Dunkettle - Carrigtwohill and the Ballincollig bypass, all of which are motorway standard. The NRA say it also explains the Waterford bypass, but that is more or less connected to the M9.

Wild Bill

Sound like sensible people those NRA chaps! (At least compared to many of their critics)

Tech3

Redsoxfan wrote: »

As I drove on it yesterday, and listened to a piece on the re designations on The Last Word, I wondered why the Collooney-Sligo stretch on the N4 wasn't included? Is it because it begins and ends with roundabouts? Or is it the alignment or curvature? The junctions are grade separated.

Yeah it should be fine for redesignation, I reckon whenever the N17 will be getting 2+2 and Sligo is bypassed by HQDC then it will probably be redesignated. We will probably never see this in our lifetime though.

BigMoose

Wild Bill wrote:

The N11 - my road most traveled! And the only National Primary where the farmers insist (dual or single sections) on driving their contraptions outside the hard should. Which is deadly dangerous even on a HQDC spec road. The farmer problem on its own more than justifies the re designation.

I completely agree. I drive Rathnew/Wicklow to Dublin every day, twice many days and the tractors are often not in the hard shoulder. It's incredibly dangerous esp on dark winter evenings when you can hardly see them. I could never understand why they were allowed to drive like that on such a road. Drove past a tractor today on the M11 stretch so shows what they think of the redesignation. At least this one was in the hard shoulder... That said, I've seen a good few on the M50 and no one seems to stop them.

Amtmann

The M8 Glanmire bypass is 120 km/h southbound, 100 km/h northbound. A sensible decision in my opinion.

Steviemak

Furet wrote: »

The M8 Glanmire bypass is 120 km/h southbound, 100 km/h northbound. A sensible decision in my opinion.

What is the reason for this do you think? I would have thought that the up hill northbound section is safer and more suitable for 120km. Going downhill especially on those bends 120km really is the limit.

Wild Bill

Furet wrote: »

The M8 Glanmire bypass is 120 km/h southbound, 100 km/h northbound. A sensible decision in my opinion.

Why is going down the hill safer than going up the hill?

Amtmann

Southbound is uphill; northbound is downhill. Sightlines are superior when your heading uphill, southbound towards Cork.

Gunth

I find this strange that there are different speed limts for north and south bound cars. As you head southbound there is quite a big hill to climb before you arrive at the Dunkettle Interchange so to say that nothbound is all uphill compared to southbound is not entirely true. At least it is 120km/hr in one direction which is great rather than 100km/hr for both directions.

Furet, did they give a reason for this decision?

Steviemak

Furet wrote: »

Southbound is uphill; northbound is downhill. Sightlines are superior when your heading uphill, southbound towards Cork.

How is it uphill from the top of Glanmire to sea level at the tunnel Obviously going northbound there is a downhill section but it is pretty straight and not as windy as the downhill sections southbound.

Gunth

Gunth wrote: »

Furet, did they give a reason for this decision?

Is it a decision or a cockup! :pac:

Anyone know for sure?

Wild Bill

Furet wrote: »

Southbound is uphill; northbound is downhill. Sightlines are superior when your heading uphill, southbound towards Cork.

I'm here trying looking at a map from all angles and am in a state of shocked confusion :eek:

Starting at the intersection of the N25 and N8 (not sure what the junction is called), do you not start off towards Dublin (northbound) by going up a long winding road, now the M8?

Flummoxed is what I am

Amtmann

Steviemak wrote: »

How is it uphill from the top of Glanmire to sea level at the tunnel Obviously going northbound there is a downhill section but it is pretty straight and not as windy as the downhill sections southbound.

Okay. When you come out of the tunnel and head for Dublin, certainly you are going up hill. But this is a steady, gradual climb with good sightlines. However, about 4km before the Glanmire turnoff (junction 18), the road northbound swerves and you go pretty rapidly downhill. This is the downhill section that makes it unsuitable for 120 km/h, along with the junction 18 turnoff.
On the other hand, when you bypass Watergrasshill and enter the Glanmire Bypass southbound you go up that hill, which again is quite steep. However, the sightlines are better than the northward drive. When you have reached the acme of this hill, then sure, you go down a gentle, steady slope towards the Lee.

Wild Bill

Not very often on that road but the hill between the Acme and the Lee is the only one imprinted on my memory bank!

Chris_533976

Is that for definate or have they just not put 120kmh signs on the northbound run yet?

Keep an eye on it for us

Stark

Furet wrote: »

Okay. When you come out of the tunnel and head for Dublin, certainly you are going up hill. But this is a steady, gradual climb with good sightlines. However, about 4km before the Glanmire turnoff (junction 18), the road northbound swerves and you go pretty rapidly downhill. This is the downhill section that makes it unsuitable for 120 km/h, along with the junction 18 turnoff.
On the other hand, when you bypass Watergrasshill and enter the Glanmire Bypass southbound you go up that hill, which again is quite steep. However, the sightlines are better than the northward drive. When you have reached the acme of this hill, then sure, you go down a gentle, steady slope towards the Lee.

Interesting. I would have thought that southbound would be unsuitable for 120km/hr as well as the road does curve quite a bit as you're going downhill. I always feel far more comfortable doing 100km/hr northbound than southbound on the Glanmire bypass anyway.

Carawaystick

Chris_533976 wrote: »

The NRA say they dont want random bits of motorway floating around miles from the rest of the network. That explains why that Sligo section wasnt done, explains Dunkettle - Carrigtwohill and the Ballincollig bypass, all of which are motorway standard. The NRA say it also explains the Waterford bypass, but that is more or less connected to the M9.

The N25 section with the 120 limit is about a km from the M8. The south ring road should have been made Motorway to the Tougher junction, with the intention of joining it to the M22 when the roundabouts get removed.
Then you'ld have no big gaps between Motorways.

Steviemak

Stark wrote: »

Interesting. I would have thought that southbound would be unsuitable for 120km/hr as well as the road does curve quite a bit as you're going downhill. I always feel far more comfortable doing 100km/hr northbound than southbound on the Glanmire bypass anyway.

The northbound section is definitely more comfortable at high speed. I tend to speed on the southbound carriageway by virtue of the fact it is a bendy downhiller and struggle to hold the lane at 120km. But i guess I won't have to worry about speeding on that section anymore. Happy days:D

Wild Bill

I used to drive to Cork regularly; back in the days when down the N11, New Ross, Waterford, Youghal was the quickest way from SE Dublin. Even though you had to go through Arklow, Enniscorthy and Waterford. The alternative in the early 1990s was to spend an hour getting to Newlands Cross before the journey even started.

Now an hour brings you to Portlaoise and it's 90 minutes from there (Abbeyleix permitting) to the Glanmire Road thanks to the new motorways.

Anyone know how long it takes to do the trip from Bray to Cork via the South East these days?

Chris_533976

No idea, but if Cork - Waterford gets upgraded, it'd be interesting to see how much of Dublin - Cork goes via Waterford, as there would be 1 toll less.

murphaph

this apect of our new network fascinate me. Cork will have (if M20 and New Ross Bypass are built) 4 realistic ways to get to Dublin (and vice versa). Our network is so much better than the UK one in this regard-there is inbuilt redundancy in multiple routes instead of aggregation of routes. An incident at the weekend closed the M5 in Britain for hours and caused 35 mile tailbacks! We should of course have a full (and properly used) VMS system across the entire network with diversion signage (like germany) permanently installed across the non-motorway network in the event that the motorway needs to close for an incident.

Empire o de Sun

murphaph wrote: »

this apect of our new network fascinate me. Cork will have (if M20 and New Ross Bypass are built) 4 realistic ways to get to Dublin (and vice versa). Our network is so much better than the UK one in this regard-there is inbuilt redundancy in multiple routes instead of aggregation of routes. An incident at the weekend closed the M5 in Britain for hours and caused 35 mile tailbacks! We should of course have a full (and properly used) VMS system across the entire network with diversion signage (like germany) permanently installed across the non-motorway network in the event that the motorway needs to close for an incident.

like this signs, I see this allover germany at major Intersections or Kreuz (literally Cross) in German.



the amber lights on the side flash when the destinations have changed.
The F in F-Sindlingen stands for Frankfurt. It means the town is part of Frankfurt City

a bigger version is available herehttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3295/2625235810_5e5239abbd.jpg?v=0

Tech3

The M20 start of motorway sign at dell roundabout taken Friday

Wild Bill

End of clearway; start of motorway! For affect, they should have put the M20 sign across the end of the footpath

...does that yellow line look broken or is my eyesight failing.......

Chris_533976

Thats the sliproad to it (its quite long). I dunno what the lines are supposed to be like on sliproads.

If it's under motorway regulations, then it should be consistant with all other motorway markings. IMHO

Single carriageway motorway, not the first!

Funny thing is the UK are redesignating motorways down to A roads, the exact opposite to what is happening here.

murphaph

tech2 wrote: »

The M20 start of motorway sign at dell roundabout taken Friday

I presume that clearway sign predates the redesignation and can now be dispensed with given the start of motorway regs sign is in place?

Edit: Just noticed it's an end of clearway sign. Why is there a clearway in force at/near the roundabout, parking problems?

Tech3

murphaph wrote: »

I presume that clearway sign predates the redesignation and can now be dispensed with given the start of motorway regs sign is in place?

Edit: Just noticed it's an end of clearway sign. Why is there a clearway in force at/near the roundabout, parking problems?

Theres never been parking issues maybe in the industrial estate when dell was fully loaded with employees. The place is deserted now compared to a few years ago with so many companies now departed. The sign should be taken down now seen as the start of motorway sign is up.

AFAIR the line was being painted continuous yellow on the single carriageway leading to the M20 split.

Zoney

murphaph wrote: »

Edit: Just noticed it's an end of clearway sign. Why is there a clearway in force at/near the roundabout, parking problems?

The council put up clearway signs between the two roundabouts (Loughmore on R526, and the Dell Roundabout that the M20 spur starts on), after travellers camping on the hard shoulder. It doesn't entirely make sense that there *is* a hard shoulder on this section of road given it's just an R road (R510), but I guess it may have been forward planning in case four lanes was needed in the future if the industrial park expanded - not likely now anyway

As for the dashed line on the M20 spur's hard shoulder - last week the whole M20 mainline still had dashed line on the hard shoulder, I don't know that all of it is repainted even by today.